Are there any dedicated P.E. Teachers in Irish Schools?

Meangadh

Lailah Thundering Raspberry wrote: »

I agree with you that teachers not qualified in the subject can still be paid to teach it under TC regulations. Meangadh is definitely wrong on that. Personally I have found that it's one of the subjects least likely to given to just anyone though, because of insurance concerns regarding injuries - same with other practical subjects.

I didn't say it didn't happen- I said that the majority of teachers teaching PE are qualified. There are exceptions but in my experience the teachers of PE in either schools I've taught in or schools of friends were qualified. The other poster implied it happened "a lot". I really don't think it does.

The_Valeyard

Armelodie wrote: »

Aye, thread is about primary though!

I believe it's about PE

r93kaey5p2izun

Meangadh wrote: »

I didn't say it didn't happen- I said that the majority of teachers teaching PE are qualified. There are exceptions but in my experience the teachers of PE in either schools I've taught in or schools of friends were qualified. The other poster implied it happened "a lot". I really don't think it does.

My post was in reference to your saying TC regulation meant teachers had to be qualified in the subject they teach in order to be paid. That's just not the case. In my experience every school I'm familiar with has teachers teaching outside their subject area. As I said though I have found it's much more common in non-practical subjects and have never come across it in PE.

Meangadh

Lailah Thundering Raspberry wrote: »

My post was in reference to your saying TC regulation meant teachers had to be qualified in the subject they teach in order to be paid. That's just not the case. In my experience every school I'm familiar with has teachers teaching outside their subject area. As I said though I have found it's much more common in non-practical subjects and have never come across it in PE.

Oh right, fair enough. Yeah definitely I do know of teachers doing subjects they're not qualified in due to various different reasons- but they're few and far between in my experience, especially since the Teaching Council came about. Although I'm not even sure if that's cos of the TC, or because the competition for jobs nowadays is so fierce that very few unqualified teachers are filling jobs.

But back to the topic here of PE- I wonder what is it about some kids that make them dislike it? Or try to avoid it? We have 3 PE teachers (fully qualified) in my school and they do really varied stuff over the year with the classes- I would love it myself, even more so as a student. But yet there are students that constantly try to get out of doing it or at the very least do the bare minimum. What can be done about those kids?

rainbowtrout

Meangadh wrote: »

Oh right, fair enough. Yeah definitely I do know of teachers doing subjects they're not qualified in due to various different reasons- but they're few and far between in my experience, especially since the Teaching Council came about. Although I'm not even sure if that's cos of the TC, or because the competition for jobs nowadays is so fierce that very few unqualified teachers are filling jobs.

But back to the topic here of PE- I wonder what is it about some kids that make them dislike it? Or try to avoid it? We have 3 PE teachers (fully qualified) in my school and they do really varied stuff over the year with the classes- I would love it myself, even more so as a student. But yet there are students that constantly try to get out of doing it or at the very least do the bare minimum. What can be done about those kids?

There are kids who dislike Irish or maths or science or whatever and no one bats an eyelid when they say they hate those subjects. It's socially acceptable not to like maths etc. I fully support having PE lessons in school and think it's good for kids but I don't think it's unusual for some kids not to like sports.

Andy From Sligo

Meangadh wrote: »

.... But back to the topic here of PE- I wonder what is it about some kids that make them dislike it? Or try to avoid it? We have 3 PE teachers (fully qualified) in my school and they do really varied stuff over the year with the classes- I would love it myself, even more so as a student. But yet there are students that constantly try to get out of doing it or at the very least do the bare minimum. What can be done about those kids?

well speaking of my own experience when I started high school in the UK our very first lesson the PE teachers sat us down on the benches in the training room and said "right you lot - who dont like PE?" a couple of us put our hands up including me - "well you will like it when we have finished with you!" was the reply , sure it was a bit of bullying going on, i think even one lad was nearly reduced to tears by them but they werent gonna let anyone get off with it - as I said if you wanted to get out of PE you had to be nearly dying, as long as there was breath in you they made you do it, whether you was rubbish at it or whinged ... you done it or else! - but you know some kids need that push otherwise they would just whinge and say "I dont wanna do it sir" or "I cant do it sir!" - alas in this day and age I bet the teachers cant be that forceful any more cause it might upset little tommy or little tommy will go back home and the parents would end up suing the school or teachers for harrasment - diddums! :rolleyes:

evolving_doors

The_Valeyard wrote: »

I believe it's about PE

Its about PE in primary schools following on from the operation transformation show last week.

Read the OP again.

r93kaey5p2izun

I support compulsory PE and think it's awful that schools are so underfunded in terms of facilities. The PE teachers I work with are all qualified and work hard to provide the full curriculum and plenty of variety with limited resources. I would love to see PE as an optional exam subject also. I do agree that parents need to take more responsibility though and that schools cannot be asked to solve all of society's ills.

I hated PE in school. Our PE teachers were qualified, we had decent facilities and did a variety of activities. The only thing that would have made it slightly more tolerable was being able to go straight home after, not back to another class. But I doubt I would ever have enjoyed it. That's just the way I am. My family are very sporty and encouraged healthy eating and lifestyle. I went to dance classes that I loved. But I avoided PE at all costs and forged many notes to get out of it. I don't think there are any easy answers.

The_Valeyard

Armelodie wrote: »

Its about PE in primary schools following on from the operation transformation show last week.

Read the OP again.

I did. It says PRIMARY AND SECONDARY.

Take your own advice. Read the OP again.

evolving_doors

The_Valeyard wrote: »

I did. It says PRIMARY AND SECONDARY.

Take your own advice. Read the OP again.

Thats because the OP is correct in that they didn't hear it correctly. The statement from operation transformation was only referring to primary schools.
Hence discussing secondary is moot.

RandomName2

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I dont particuarly like that Idea. - Ok if the Teacher is slim, fit, healthy and really has qualified in the subject but say if you got an overweight or over BMI teacher teaching kids P.E. its not on is it! - bit like going to a fat doctor who smokes and having them tell you you have to lose weight and stop smoking ... oh hold on a moment we already have them ones lol :-)

If it's about education, then it shouldn't matter.

That is if PE was actual physical education.
It's not.

It's just exercise that the state pays for using educational resources. So I suppose you are right - should have a teacher who looks the part, for the sake of publicity at least.

Lailah Thundering Raspberry wrote: »

I support compulsory PE and think it's awful that schools are so underfunded in terms of facilities. The PE teachers I work with are all qualified and work hard to provide the full curriculum and plenty of variety with limited resources. I would love to see PE as an optional exam subject also. I do agree that parents need to take more responsibility though and that schools cannot be asked to solve all of society's ills.

How about compulsory PE outside of schools. Sounds like a good idea. Hell, it would be more appropriate in the workplace: young children at least tend to run around when they are playing games. Employees should be given warnings if they don't participate and fired if they continue to fail to do so. People on the Dole should be forced to play either tennis, rugby, or participate in gymnastics for at least two hours a week.

PE as a subject is a great idea. It should really just be done by fitness level with no examination. This will give fit people immediate A's - which is fine because unfit people are probably going to die quicker and so we shouldn't bother sending them to college anyway. Well, unfit people mightn't necessarily die sooner but sure fit people look better, so it makes sense anyhow.

The_Valeyard

Armelodie wrote: »

Thats because the OP is correct in that they didn't hear it correctly. The statement from operation transformation was only referring to primary schools.
Hence discussing secondary is moot.

Yes and we have been discussing primary and secondary, as per the OP original post. So no, it is not moot. Not just related to the show.

Andy From Sligo

whats the problem discussing whether its PE lessons for both primary and secondary school? - the point is I think both should have regular PE lessons on the curriculum - if the original post grows legs and goes a little OT I dont see any problem and again if it gets back on track its OK. i cannot see the point in people getting more picky in what the OP was about more than the issue of PE not being taught in primary and secondary schools...

RandomName2

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

whats the problem discussing whether its PE lessons for both primary and secondary school? - the point is I think both should have regular PE lessons on the curriculum - if the original post grows legs and goes a little OT I dont see any problem and again if it gets back on track its OK. i cannot see the point in people getting more picky in what the OP was about more than the issue of PE not being taught in primary and secondary schools...

Again, are you talking about lessons: i.e. actually learning stuff? If so, you'd be talking about biology... or perhaps physiology (but that isn't a subject at either primary or secondary level).

If you are talking about people running, picking up balls, or hitting balls that isn't "teaching". You could get a dog to do it - bite the students that attempt to leave the field and bark at the ones who stop moving.

Andy From Sligo

RandomName2 wrote: »

Again, are you talking about lessons: i.e. actually learning stuff? If so, you'd be talking about biology... or perhaps physiology (but that isn't a subject at either primary or secondary level).

If you are talking about people running, picking up balls, or hitting balls that isn't "teaching". You could get a dog to do it - bite the students that attempt to leave the field and bark at the ones who stop moving.

oh your too clever for me - no I mean doing physical education where you do stuff that causes you to sweat and make it feel like your heart is gonna pump out of your body! - is that not a lesson if a proper qualified PE teacher teaches it?

heldel00

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

whats the problem discussing whether its PE lessons for both primary and secondary school? - the point is I think both should have regular PE lessons on the curriculum - if the original post grows legs and goes a little OT I dont see any problem and again if it gets back on track its OK. i cannot see the point in people getting more picky in what the OP was about more than the issue of PE not being taught in primary and secondary schools...

PE IS ON THE CURRICULUM IN PRIMARY SCHOOLS AND IS TAUGHT FOR ONE HOUR A WEEK!

Andy From Sligo

if I may go a tad OT without upsetting people our Headmaster (I believe they are called Principals over here in ireland) he was just a Headmaster he didnt teach in classes .. well very very rarely - so if you misbehaved in class the teacher would go "right you boy, go to the headmasters office!" and you knew when you got to his office he would be there and not off teaching a class somewhere - I believe in Ireland the Principals teach regular classes as well ... but just to steer back on topic our headmaster never taught PE either

Andy From Sligo

heldel00 wrote: »

PE IS ON THE CURRICULUM IN PRIMARY SCHOOLS AND IS TAUGHT FOR ONE HOUR A WEEK!

Thanks for shouting! :eek: - what so its in ALL primary schools in Ireland then is it , and let me get this straight 1 Hour a week! - thats a bloody joke! - is it taught by proper fit PE teachers you know like men in shorts and women in skirts? ... or vice-versa :eek:

r93kaey5p2izun

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

if I may go a tad OT without upsetting people our Headmaster (I believe they are called Principals over here in ireland) he was just a Headmaster he didnt teach in classes .. well very very rarely - so if you misbehaved in class the teacher would go "right you boy, go to the headmasters office!" and you knew when you got to his office he would be there and not off teaching a class somewhere - I believe in Ireland the Principals teach regular classes as well ... but just to steer back on topic our headmaster never taught PE either

It depends on the size of the school. Schools with over a certain number of pupils have an admin principal rather than a teaching one.

rainbowtrout

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Thanks for shouting! :eek: - what so its in ALL primary schools in Ireland then is it , and let me get this straight 1 Hour a week! - thats a bloody joke! - is it taught by proper fit PE teachers you know like men in shorts and women in skirts? ... or vice-versa :eek:

Why would a woman need a skirt to teach PE?

Your question has already been answered. Primary school teachers do PE as one of their subjects in their teacher training degree. Along with English, Irish, maths, science etc.


Anyway, you have kids. Presumably they go to school. Surely you know what they do at school for PE?

evolving_doors

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

whats the problem discussing whether its PE lessons for both primary and secondary school? - the point is I think both should have regular PE lessons on the curriculum - if the original post grows legs and goes a little OT I dont see any problem and again if it gets back on track its OK. i cannot see the point in people getting more picky in what the OP was about more than the issue of PE not being taught in primary and secondary schools...

Because folk are talking about 'dedicated teachers' in Primary but yet confusing the term with 'qualified teachers' in secondary and the others are following this by arguing that there are few qualified PE teachers in secondary but others are saying that the vast majority of PE teachers in secondary are qualified (compared to other subjects). When in actual fact we should be talking about qualified teachers in Primary.. which is never going to happen.

So do we just abandon the substantive issue of Dedicated teachers in primary so!!!!

ARe there any dedicated PE teachers in Secondary schools? Yes .. most of them are dedicated (and qualified too)..

But anyway I presume we'll stick with PE in secondary so....

So here's the 'development' plan for PE in the beloved new Junior cert.

Under the new Junior Cycle, PE is being dropped as a standalone subject. Instead, it will form an optional 100-hour short course. Teachers fear that the subject is being downgraded.
Lyons [ PE teacher and president of the Physical Education Association of Ireland] says that every student, from first to sixth year, should have a double period of PE as well as the option of taking a short course at Junior Cycle level. “It might sound like a lot, but compared to other countries, it is not a lot at all: even with this, we will be barely close to matching them.”

[despite] Last year, a study from the EU’s Eurydice Network said that Ireland’s provision of PE was third from the bottom of 36 European countries surveyed. Although the quality of PE teaching was praised, the report criticised Ireland’s provision of curriculum time to PE as “consistently low”.
From Irish Times Aug. 2014

heldel00

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Thanks for shouting! :eek: - what so its in ALL primary schools in Ireland then is it , and let me get this straight 1 Hour a week! - thats a bloody joke! - is it taught by proper fit PE teachers you know like men in shorts and women in skirts? ... or vice-versa :eek:

Ah I'm only shouting because it has been said 40 times.
No, 1 hour a week is not adequate but curriculum is completely overloaded and guidelines must be followed.
If you want to know who it is taught by then go back and read the earlier friggin posts!!!

CarpeDiem85

I always made a point of teaching P.E every week, even if it meant I had to re jig my timetable. The problem I find in Irish schools, especially in bigger schools is the lack of PE hall space and time combined with the lack of funds for P.E equipment. I used to teach in a school with over 40 classes but only one PE hall. If there was ever a Christmas play, assembly, International Day or whatever, I would lose my PE slot for that week. It's fine if it's a nice day and you can bring the children outside but if it's cold and wet, forget it. Another issue I found is the lack of funds for equipment on a yearly basis. We used to have to ask children to bring in Tesco tokens to buy PE equipment. Literally all the equipment we had was from Tesco. If 40 classes are using PE equipment every week, that's a lot of wear and tear. The government should provide extra funds for this.

rainbowtrout

CarpeDiem85 wrote: »

I always made a point of teaching P.E every week, even if it meant I had to re jig my timetable. The problem I find in Irish schools, especially in bigger schools is the lack of PE hall space and time combined with the lack of funds for P.E equipment. I used to teach in a school with over 40 classes but only one PE hall. If there was ever a Christmas play, assembly, International Day or whatever, I would lose my PE slot for that week. It's fine if it's a nice day and you can bring the children outside but if it's cold and wet, forget it. Another issue I found is the lack of funds for equipment on a yearly basis. We used to have to ask children to bring in Tesco tokens to buy PE equipment. Literally all the equipment we had was from Tesco. If 40 classes are using PE equipment every week, that's a lot of wear and tear. The government should provide extra funds for this.

Not to mind the fact that there are lots of small primary schools in the country, particularly in rural areas. It doesn't make the equipment any cheaper. A primary school with 50 kids is just not going to have the same budget as a school with 500, so some types of PE equipment are beyond the reach of the school.

Andy From Sligo

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Why would a woman need a skirt to teach PE?

Your question has already been answered. Primary school teachers do PE as one of their subjects in their teacher training degree. Along with English, Irish, maths, science etc.


Anyway, you have kids. Presumably they go to school. Surely you know what they do at school for PE?

Just going by what our women PE Teachers used to wear which was a skirt - I dunno maybe its free'er to move around in a skirt than tracksuit bottoms - I dunno I've never personally wore a skirt! :eek:

my kids are adults now - no, they never had any PE lessons either I dont think at their school, cant remember for sure

Andy From Sligo

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Not to mind the fact that there are lots of small primary schools in the country, particularly in rural areas. It doesn't make the equipment any cheaper. A primary school with 50 kids is just not going to have the same budget as a school with 500, so some types of PE equipment are beyond the reach of the school.

Do you need equipment / full equipment for a PE lesson? - dont need any equipment for cross country running anyways and the parents can supply tracksuit or shorts and tee PE kit - im sure even some local gyms and other sports club can donate some equipment to their local schools surely no?

CarpeDiem85

If you check out the Department of Education's page about PE, there are 6 strands in the primary school curriculum. They are Athletics, Dance, Gymnastics, Games, Outdoor and adventure activities and Aquatics. A very varied curriculum which requires a lot of varied equipment. As much as I would have loved to, I couldn't have a class of 4 and 5 year old children running non stop for an hour. Believe me, the majority of teachers I know want to teach P.E, from a skills point of view and because it wears the wee monkeys out (lol). To answer your orginal question, we had a outside teacher come in to teach the pupils Hurling but this happened maybe 6 weeks out of a school year. Thankfully they brought the hurleys too as the school didn't have any!

rainbowtrout

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Do you need equipment / full equipment for a PE lesson? - dont need any equipment for cross country running anyways and the parents can supply tracksuit or shorts and tee PE kit - im sure even some local gyms and other sports club can donate some equipment to their local schools surely no?

Do you think cross country running is the only thing schools should do for PE lessons? What about schools in cities???

Students wear tracksuits for PE already, this is not something that needs to be supplied. What about footballs, basketballs, hurleys and sliotars, helmets, tennis rackets, gymnastic equipment such as mats, athletics equipment like hurdles or javelins, bibs for teams, equipment for smaller children (I remember playing throwing and catching games with bean bags in junior infants). Even stuff such as cones for marking out a diamond for rounders or for bleep tests.

Why should gyms and sports clubs have to donate equipment? I very much doubt many of them would have enough to donate, or even if they would have equipment that would be suitable.

byhookorbycrook

PE is timetabled in primary for one hour a week, but in most primary schools this is actually exceeded. For instance in our school this week, the children had their hour, four classes went swimming on top of this, 6 classes had some soccer skills training, 8 classes had dance class (sean nós, this term) two classes are also doing a musical so spent time rehearsing the dancing for that too.

The children are looking forward to the annual school 5 k fun run and classes get to compete with the local athletic club too.
We have links to local GAA clubs that come to the school for a term to do hurling and football with all the classes from 1st up. We were awarded an "Active School" flag last year. We fielded teams in hurling/camogie, Gaelic football, basketball and cricket last year as well as doing a fitness rowing machine challenge, "drop everything and dance" judo, an open air céilí , a sports day as part of our active school week.

Tearin It Up

They are now training people in PE teaching and all you need is a sports leisure qualification from a PLC college.

What kind of a joke is that. Surely it has to be a proper PE qualification to teach PE.

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