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The Tiger Woods Thread

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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,655 ✭✭✭✭AdamD


    And yet none of them will come remotely close to Tiger's achievements. So who did it better?


  • Registered Users Posts: 723 ✭✭✭Hoof Hearted2


    valoren wrote: »
    There was the media hype about the big 5 dominating golf during Tiger's era.
    The other 4, Els, Goosen, Mickelson and Singh are still playing, albeit not winning championships with the same regularity. They are still playing is my point.

    I'm sure they weren't doing navy seal type exercises during that time as Woods was. I'm sure they recognised they needed to work out, but they were smart enough to get themselves golf fit, not fit for BUDS. Woods crocked himself. There's no two ways about it.

    I think of another famous player who also had back injuries. Bernhard Langer.
    Managed his injury properly. Didn't rush back. Still playing, still capable of top 10 at the Masters, still winning on the Champions tour.

    Yes I suppose the way he swung the club and amount he practiced and the amount of times he played have had no impact on his physical well being whatsoever, so it can only be his gym work.

    Like I said that's an overly simplistic argument, but at least it sells books I suppose.
    You are right about one thing though, Woods did crock himself, but I haven't heard him or anyone else saying otherwise.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    I think it was Ratief Goosen who slagged him off after his last major win for over egging the pain he was in after each shot, turned out he managed to win with a fractured leg. I don't care for him personally, but c'mon you got to admire is determination and will-to-win even when in pain.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/golf/usopen/2303511/US-Open-Tigers-Woods-finest-moment-overshadowed-by-Retief-Goosens-doubt.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,481 ✭✭✭valoren


    Woods is a fascinating character. Any book about him, particularly from Haney, who worked with him personally, is going to be interesting reading, even if it was tabloid gossip guff.

    There is also the idea that, from Mark Steinberg I'd imagine, that he was an opportunistic loser who cashed in on his association and relationship with Woods. That the whole seal thing was an exaggeration which he sensationalized to shift copies. The book was an expose, of course there would be an element of that. That he timed it for release before the Masters was just good marketing.

    Mark Steinberg would do well in Trumps cabinet. :D

    It is known that Woods undertook or attempted to undertake the navy seal BUDS training. That brilliant ESPN article on the 10th anniversary of his fathers death details it incredibly well about what can only be described as a mental break. Taking that, add in elite golfer playing, training, travel, media duties etc and compound that into the physical and mental situation he now has. He can convince himself to the contrary. Unfortunately, judging by what we've watched, he risks becoming delusional about how he unnecessarily crocked himself by his refusal to speak plainly about it. A bit of candour from Woods on that would be welcome. As in, yeah I went a bit nuts then and bloody well crocked myself like a dope.

    I made the comparison earlier to Woods today and his then rivals (Mickelson et al). They were peers to a peerless golfer.
    I think what Woods always needed was a friend. Not a confidant like Notah Begay or a buddy/mentor like O'Meara.
    He was winning everything. And I think he got bored of winning everything. Breaking that Nicklaus record was only a matter of time.

    An analogy for me would be the movie Good Will Hunting.
    Tiger was Will Hunting. Golf versus Maths.
    Tiger never had the best friend Will Hunting had in Ben Affleck's Chucky.

    Remember the scene when Chucky and Will are working on the building site and during a break he threatens Will.
    Basically saying, wtf are you doing here? This, while being honorable work, is beneath you.
    If I see you here again in a few years, I'll kill you. Basically, you have a gift and you're wasting it and insulting us by pretending to someone you know you're not.

    When Tiger was obsessing about Navy Seals, sleeping around with random women during the peak of his career, he needed a true friend like Chucky, not some PR controlled 'friend', to give him some home truths.

    Who would tell he was going to get seriously hurt by playing soldier, that he was belittling those same soldiers, that he would suffer mentally from sleeping around, that he was thick to think he, a famous icon, would never get caught.
    Who would tell him to go and win. Win until you get to 19. To shut up the doubters.
    Who would chew him out about cheating on his wife, a good woman.
    No doubt people must have tried. No doubt they no longer formed part of the inner circle.
    The list is long of people who became estranged, isolated from him.

    He never did have that true friend.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,229 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    First Up wrote: »
    I think Gary Player did that about 40 years earlier.

    And spent 40 years telling everyone.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 994 ✭✭✭Tilikum


    davo10 wrote: »
    I think it was Ratief Goosen who slagged him off after his last major win for over egging the pain he was in after each shot, turned out he managed to win with a fractured leg. I don't care for him personally, but c'mon you got to admire is determination and will-to-win even when in pain.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/golf/usopen/2303511/US-Open-Tigers-Woods-finest-moment-overshadowed-by-Retief-Goosens-doubt.html

    He had a stress fracture not a fractured leg. Some people actually think that he won that comp on a broken leg.

    I adore Tiger, always have, but sometimes I think he let's on he's in more pain than he actually is.


  • Registered Users Posts: 723 ✭✭✭Hoof Hearted2


    valoren wrote: »
    Woods is a fascinating character. Any book about him, particularly from Haney, who worked with him personally, is going to be interesting reading, even if it was tabloid gossip guff.

    There is also the idea that, from Mark Steinberg I'd imagine, that he was an opportunistic loser who cashed in on his association and relationship with Woods. That the whole seal thing was an exaggeration which he sensationalized to shift copies. The book was an expose, of course there would be an element of that. That he timed it for release before the Masters was just good marketing.

    Mark Steinberg would do well in Trumps cabinet. :D

    It is known that Woods undertook or attempted to undertake the navy seal BUDS training. That brilliant ESPN article on the 10th anniversary of his fathers death details it incredibly well about what can only be described as a mental break. Taking that, add in elite golfer playing, training, travel, media duties etc and compound that into the physical and mental situation he now has. He can convince himself to the contrary. Unfortunately, judging by what we've watched, he risks becoming delusional about how he unnecessarily crocked himself by his refusal to speak plainly about it. A bit of candour from Woods on that would be welcome. As in, yeah I went a bit nuts then and bloody well crocked myself like a dope.

    IDK, anytime I've heard anything from the horses mouth i.e. Woods himself, he appears to be open and honest, it's only when we hear sound bites through other sources that he comes across as delusional etc. one could argue that that is the propose of those sound bites, to make a story where there is none in order to hook people in, i.e. clickbait and people cash in on the back of his fame. I know most people understand that that is the case but it never ceases to amaze that at times people actually believe it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Tilikum wrote: »
    He had a stress fracture not a fractured leg. Some people actually think that he won that comp on a broken leg.

    I adore Tiger, always have, but sometimes I think he let's on he's in more pain than he actually is.

    Not to be pedantic but fractured, broken, cracked all mean the same thing, there is loss of continuity of the bone. I think you are confusing this with broken/fractured bones where the pieces are displaced. If memory serves be right he had a fractured tibia or fibula as well as a knee injury.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,634 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    I think if there is any doubt whether continuing with his career may cause more damage he should simply call it a day. There are big question marks anyway how much of a career is even possible at this point.

    Months ago he said he will never risk the ability to play some football with his kids. The way he was moving lately I couldn't see him playing any football. Not even football with kids. Maybe he should stick to his original thoughts.

    Some of us would love to see him showing 'it' to everyone, including me, but is it worth it?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭ligerdub


    Winning a major on a broken leg/stress fracture whatever.....was on the verge of heroic.

    Bearing in mind that Tiger only exaggerated his injuries when he was playing ****e, portraying a veneer of complete control, strength and focus in times of chasing down a tournament. Appearing to be struggling when he really wasn't in the 2008 US Open just doesn't fit in with this.

    When you think about it, his conversion of positions of contention to wins is unreal. That's the sign of a great competitor. He's probably the most imperious sportsman of all in that regard, even compared to any of the greats in golf, and most other sports for that matter.

    I say that without being a Tiger superfan.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 346 ✭✭frink


    Withdrew from two more tournaments now, Genesis Open and Honda Classic, due to ongoing back spasms.

    Would love to see him back competing but looks like retirement is imminent


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,689 ✭✭✭sky88


    Sadly i think this will be tiger done.

    i wonder would he try to only play in the majors he has exemptions in as a way to still play


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,847 ✭✭✭Armchair Andy


    At this stage I'm sick of the will he won't he. Just announce your retirement tw get it over with.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    At this stage I'm sick of the will he won't he. Just announce your retirement tw get it over with.


    He has to unshackle himself from a pretty big commercial juggernaut before he can do that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,634 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    I have no doubt now that this is it then. Very sad because he's only 41 which is nothing for a golfer. Stenson will be 41 in a few weeks. Stenson is still a young man.

    Is the difference that Tiger hit golf balls since the age of 2? Is the difference the insane flat out swing that the went with until he no longer could? Is the difference his excessive workout regime, that Navy Seal stuff that Haney wrote about? Probably a combination of all.

    Common sense will tell us that golf is a very lobsided sport to start with. Unlike for example swimming or judo or even soccer you don't use all your muscles and bones. It's a very repetitive and very asymmetrical action. That alone isn't great to begin with and many pros developed problems with that as they got older. Jason Day is struggling and he's only 29. Then you add being the most dynamic of them all into it. Having started at an insanely young age having made so many swings all through his developing years. Then his marine training stuff when he was already around 30.

    Its no surprise really.

    I no longer believe that he can win a tournament let alone a major. He would be still good enough I'm sure, but his body just won't allow him to practice and play enough. If it was possible it would be him to do it, but even he can't play six times a year and still win one of them.

    He should now make sure he can enjoy his retirement in relatively good health. Find himself a nice wife. Have another kid or two. Enjoy life. Do a bit of golf commentary and play a round with his mates at the weekend from a cart. Make sure to walk away while his legacy as possibly the greatest of them all is still somewhat intact. Thats what I'd do.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Dirty Dingus McGee


    I have no doubt now that this is it then. Very sad because he's only 41 which is nothing for a golfer. Stenson will be 41 in a few weeks. Stenson is still a young man.

    Is the difference that Tiger hit golf balls since the age of 2? Is the difference the insane flat out swing that the went with until he no longer could? Is the difference his excessive workout regime, that Navy Seal stuff that Haney wrote about? Probably a combination of all.

    Common sense will tell us that golf is a very lobsided sport to start with. Unlike for example swimming or judo or even soccer you don't use all your muscles and bones. It's a very repetitive and very asymmetrical action. That alone isn't great to begin with and many pros developed problems with that as they got older. Jason Day is struggling and he's only 29. Then you add being the most dynamic of them all into it. Having started at an insanely young age having made so many swings all through his developing years. Then his marine training stuff when he was already around 30.

    Its no surprise really.

    I no longer believe that he can win a tournament let alone a major. He would be still good enough I'm sure, but his body just won't allow him to practice and play enough. If it was possible it would be him to do it, but even he can't play six times a year and still win one of them.

    He should now make sure he can enjoy his retirement in relatively good health. Find himself a nice wife. Have another kid or two. Enjoy life. Do a bit of golf commentary and play a round with his mates at the weekend from a cart. Make sure to walk away while his legacy as possibly the greatest of them all is still somewhat intact. Thats what I'd do.

    Him playing on for any longer and being crap isn't going to affect that though.Most golfers play for years and years past their sell by date and no-one thinks any less of them for doing so.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭ligerdub


    Exactly. I can't think of a great golfer who decided to stop playing because they weren't what they once were.

    The only examples I could think of would be Byron Nelson, who decided he had different priorities, and Bobby Jones, who ultimately played less because of injuries. Both of those were in the 1930s.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,634 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    ligerdub wrote: »
    Exactly. I can't think of a great golfer who decided to stop playing because they weren't what they once were.

    The only examples I could think of would be Byron Nelson, who decided he had different priorities, and Bobby Jones, who ultimately played less because of injuries. Both of those were in the 1930s.

    Ok. Didn't Seve stop playing?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Ok. Didn't Seve stop playing?

    Unfortunately not, he remained on tour for years even though he couldn't hit the ball, in an era when there was less coverage and no blimps we didn't see a lot of him during tournaments and because of his status in the game there wasn't as much focus on his decline, but he was there, hooking, slicing, duffing.

    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/sport/2006/jul/20/comment.gdnsport31

    https://www.google.ie/amp/www.independent.co.uk/sport/golf/ballesteros-longs-to-rediscover-his-old-magic-183082.html?amp


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭AnneFrank


    davo10 wrote: »
    Unfortunately not, he remained on tour for years even though he couldn't hit the ball, in an era when there was less coverage and no blimps we didn't see a lot of him during tournaments and because of his status in the game there wasn't as much focus on his decline, but he was there, hooking, slicing, duffing.

    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/sport/2006/jul/20/comment.gdnsport31

    https://www.google.ie/amp/www.independent.co.uk/sport/golf/ballesteros-longs-to-rediscover-his-old-magic-183082.html%3Famp

    it was actually sad to watch Seve in his decline, like listening to Ali in his last interview with parkinson


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,445 ✭✭✭✭fullstop


    AnneFrank wrote: »
    it was actually sad to watch Seve in his decline, like listening to Ali in his last interview with parkinson

    Yeah I remember it got to a point where he just couldn't keep the ball out of the trees off the tee.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,882 ✭✭✭WHIP IT!


    There's a Shell's Wonderful World of Golf episode where Seve plays Tom Kite. It was genuinely difficult to watch. Seve hitting it everywhere, Kite as straight as 12 o'clock. Nobody seemed to know where to look. There's a few SWWoG episodes on YouTube but I can't see that one there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭ligerdub




  • Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    fullstop wrote: »
    Yeah I remember it got to a point where he just couldn't keep the ball out of the trees off the tee.

    I remember following Seve at an Irish Open in Druids Glen, must have been mid to late 90s and it was peeking through the fingers horror stuff. It was hard going, but people still wanted to watch him. He had such charisma, even while he was struggling.

    On a happier note I spent a few cherished minutes watching him on the pitching green before he teed off, doing impossible shots off horrible lies and joking with the gallery. All told, he seemed to be in a good place considering.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,445 ✭✭✭✭fullstop


    I remember following Seve at an Irish Open in Druids Glen, must have been mid to late 90s and it was peeking through the fingers horror stuff. It was hard going, but people still wanted to watch him. He had such charisma, even while he was struggling.

    On a happier note I spent a few cherished minutes watching him on the pitching green before he teed off, doing impossible shots off horrible lies and joking with the gallery. All told, he seemed to be in a good place considering.
    Watched him at Druid's as well, those were some great Irish Opens with quality players. I also remember being at the European Open in The K Club, think it was the year Clarke shot 60 (2001), and Seve was over in the short game area with his sons. We stood watching them for about an hour and some of the shots they were hitting were unreal.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Woods hasn't turned up at Riviera for the tournament he is hosting, he cancelled all media events. If his back is so bad that his doctors advise him not to fly to LA to sit in a chair and answer questions for a few minutes, what hope of swinging a club?

    http://www.cbssports.com/golf/news/tiger-woods-latest-announcement-exudes-nothing-but-continued-sadness/


    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/tiger-woods-twice-cancels-press-conference-advised-by-doctors-to-limit-all-activities-204524679.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 669 ✭✭✭Golfgorfield


    His son was WD from a junior event this week also.

    There is something going on that isn't being reported, Tiger is insanely private so my guess is there are some other factors involved.
    Wouldn't be the first time hes hidden secrets with success!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭ligerdub


    I doubt there's anything more to it.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,634 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    So it's just breaking hmself is having a press conference in Augusta on Tuesday and media over here 'are thinking' he's practically certain to play.


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