Stephen Fry on confronting god after death

floggg

Terrlock wrote: »

They didn't believe the earth was flat, the believe it was a sphere and also was in space.

I would invite you to a bible study if you wish to understand that whole passage.

Yes, somebody linked to genesis earlier where I learned about the magical Sky dome separating the sky water from the non-sky water. Great stuff.

Of course it didn't explain how a dome would cover a spherical Earth.

Probably another allegory.

Dan_Solo

Terrlock wrote: »

They didn't believe the earth was flat, the believe it was a sphere and also was in space.

They might have after Egyptian mathematicians, who we know measured the circumference of the earth with reasonable accuracy, told them about it.
Or you could thank the jesus ghost guy I guess.

Dan_Solo

Arne_Saknussem wrote: »

I remember when i was young praying long and hard to God asking him for Castle Grayskull and getting nothing, nada!

Santa, on the other hand, sorted me right out. Much less judging and much more generous Santa is.

When I was about 7 I prayed my little heart out that god would fix my broken calculator watch. Prick never even answered.
I obviously should have tried Uri Gellar instead.

Dan_Solo

pueblo wrote: »

A camera can't make the observation on it's own. A camera is just a proxy method for humans to view an event.

It most certainly can. The interference pattern can be generated and stored and multiple people can view it at any later time. Did all these people therefore change the original reality of the interference pattern?
At heart it's no more complex than looking at a cylinder from the top and seeing a circle and then looking at it from the side and seeing a rectangle. The reality is constant despite the observation changing.
No spirit/ghost/beards required.

Ghost Buster

Terrlock wrote: »

I assure you I'm not trolling and I stand by what I said.

Scripture teaches that all men know of God, however they deny his existence.

JRR Tolkien teaches of Hobbits and Bolrogs. I also deny their existence

PTH2009

Priests, nuns, bishops are wasting there life's

Science has already proven there is no god, no satan, no heaven or he'll

It is all just an excuse to deal with death

jobbridge4life

PTH2009 wrote: »

Science has already proven there is no god, no satan, no heaven or he'll

Well now they haven't.

PTH2009

jobbridge4life wrote: »

Well now they haven't.

Ur Brain die
s when u die so u can't live on without it. I have had 3 close relations die in the last year and a half and I doubt there watching over me now. I've asked god for a load of things and he has never got back to me or my family.

EazyD

jobbridge4life wrote: »

Well now they haven't.

2 words: Cosmic expansion

deaddonkey15

Terrlock wrote: »

I assure you I'm not trolling and I stand by what I said.

Scripture teaches that all men know of God, however they deny his existence.

Which God are you talking about? The Muslim God? Ancient Greek God's? A Roman God?

deaddonkey15

Terrlock wrote: »

The Jews consist of only one tribe of Israel whom came out of Egypt. Moses is said to have written the first 5 books of the torah. Was he a Jew?



They knew the world was around, when every other culture didn't.

They knew the world floats in space, while other cultures thought it sat on the back of a turtle.

they knew that everything was made up of particles, indiscernible to our eyes(Atoms and such)

They knew the ideal dimension for ship stability thousands of years before the rest of the world.


They knew when dealing with disease, clothes and body should be washed under running water.

Some 3,500 years ago God commanded His people to have a place outside the camp where they could relieve themselves. They were to each carry a shovel so that they could dig a hole (latrine) and cover their waste. Up until World War I, more soldiers died from disease than war because they did not isolate human waste.

They knew the oceans contains springs - We didn't know that until the 1970's

They knew that our bodies were made from Dust - Scientists have discovered that the human body is comprised of some 28 base and trace elements – all of which are found in the earth.

The list really goes on and on. These are not something a so called primitive people would know about.

How did they believe the Earth was round? Or that it floated in space? Have you a source for that WW1 remark?

I reckon this is a classic case of twisting the ambiguous and questionably translated words of the bible in order to be consistent with the modern world.

Tarzana2

Emersyn Deep Destroyer wrote: »

The majority of people in Ireland are catholic

:pac::D

Sure they are, hun.

Terrlock

Dan_Solo wrote: »

They might have after Egyptian mathematicians, who we know measured the circumference of the earth with reasonable accuracy, told them about it.
Or you could thank the jesus ghost guy I guess.

One of the oldest books in the bible talks about the world being spherical in shape and hangs on nothing. It also talks about celestial bodies.

Terrlock

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

How did they believe the Earth was round? Or that it floated in space? Have you a source for that WW1 remark?

I reckon this is a classic case of twisting the ambiguous and questionably translated words of the bible in order to be consistent with the modern world.

It is in the bible the the Earth was round and also floated in space.

In fact it is in one of the oldest known books of the bible.

And it's a very good idea to study the bible in it's original language as your correct there are mistranslations.


As for WW1, have a read if your interested

https://sites.google.com/site/worldwar1class6/life-in-the-trenches/health-and-diseases-in-the-trenches

Terrlock

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Which God are you talking about? The Muslim God? Ancient Greek God's? A Roman God?

I'm not talking about a Muslim God, Greek God or even a Roman God. I'm talking about The God of gods, the god who created all things. The God who brought the universe into being and breaths life into all who inhabit it.

COYVB

Terrlock wrote: »

I'm not talking about a Muslim God, Greek God or even a Roman God. I'm talking about The God of gods, the god who created all things. The God who brought the universe into being and breaths life into all who inhabit it.

And depending on where, and when, you were born and raised, that god you mention is a different one. You think it's the one you think it is because of your circumstances.

Terrlock

COYVB wrote: »

And depending on where, and when, you were born and raised, that god you mention is a different one. You think it's the one you think it is because of your circumstances.

Nope, I don't think it's because of my circumstances, if it was I'd either be a Roman Catholic or atheist leaning far more on the atheist side of the fence, certainly not a born again Christian.

There are plenty of christians also in muslim countries. However the muslims kill a lot of them.

It doesn't depend on where your brought up, that's just a fallacy.

COYVB

Terrlock wrote: »

Nope, I don't think it's because of my circumstances, if it was I'd either be a Roman Catholic or atheist leaning far more on the atheist side of the fence, certainly not a born again Christian.

There are plenty of christians also in muslim countries. However the muslims kill a lot of them.

It doesn't depend on where your brought up, that's just a fallacy.

Of course it does. If you're born into a remote tribe in Brazil, you think you'll be muslim or christian? You won't be.

If you're born in a predominantly muslim country, there's a higher chance than not that your family will be muslim, leading to a higher chance than not that you'll be raised muslim. It's not rocket science

cloud493

I thought the comment about the first world war was obvious, its been cited in most major history books of it I've read.

danrua01

Terrlock wrote: »

I'm not talking about a Muslim God, Greek God or even a Roman God. I'm talking about The God of gods, the god who created all things. The God who brought the universe into being and breaths life into all who inhabit it.

So...which god? You still haven't specified. I, for one, hope it's Thor.

Dan_Solo

Terrlock wrote: »

Nope, I don't think it's because of my circumstances, if it was I'd either be a Roman Catholic or atheist leaning far more on the atheist side of the fence, certainly not a born again Christian.

There are plenty of christians also in muslim countries. However the muslims kill a lot of them.

It doesn't depend on where your brought up, that's just a fallacy.

Terrible shoite. Of course you are more likely to have the religion of your parents and culture, illustrating the fact that's there's not one thing "natural" about Christianity.

Dan_Solo

danrua01 wrote: »

So...which god? You still haven't specified. I, for one, hope it's Thor.

Crom laughs at your Thor.
Though I reckon either take that lame hippy in a fist fight.

Ghost Buster

Terrlock wrote: »

I'm not talking about a Muslim God, Greek God or even a Roman God. I'm talking about The God of gods, the god who created all things. The God who brought the universe into being and breaths life into all who inhabit it.

But that's what most other religions say about their god or gods and they all reckon you're wrong,

danrua01

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Crom laughs at your Thor.
Though I reckon either take that lame hippy in a fist fight.

Pfft!

Anyway, there was an interesting article in the Guardian yesterday about Norse god temples being built in Iceland again. There was a quote from one of the high priests who said obviously noone believes there's a big lad with a huge hammer in the clouds, but they take the stories as poetic metaphors and such.

That's the way!

Dan_Solo

Terrlock wrote: »

One of the oldest books in the bible talks about the world being spherical in shape and hangs on nothing. It also talks about celestial bodies.

They also talk about the world being a circle, the heavens being a dome built on pillars and the earth being immovable.
In case you haven't read any other book, that's all utter shoite BTW.

Dan_Solo

danrua01 wrote: »

Pfft!

Anyway, there was an interesting article in the Guardian yesterday about Norse god temples being built in Iceland again. There was a quote from one of the high priests who said obviously noone believes there's a big lad with a huge hammer in the clouds, but they take the stories as poetic metaphors and such.

That's the way!

It would be interesting to know if the ancient norse felt the same way? Or is this just the usual sanitised "it's all metaphor" nonsense every religion in at now their laughable science has been debunked?
Off topic, but I hope the can avoid the usual far right element that Odinism etc tends to attract.

PopePalpatine

Tarzana2 wrote: »

:pac::D

Sure they are, hun.

That depends on how you define "Catholic". The last census stated that 84% of the population is Catholic, but then again, I'd say about 10% of that is accounted for by Mammy filling out the census form.

However, according to an Irish Times/IPSOS-MRBI poll in 2012, only 26% of Irish Catholics believe in transubstantiation, i.e. a cracker and some wine become the literal body and blood of Jesus. Let's not forget that the latest poll on marriage equality has 71% in favour. If there really is this "moral majority" of staunch Catholics, they're not doing a good job at actually proving their existence.

Dan_Solo

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Have you a source for that WW1 remark?

It's more bollix of course.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanitation_in_ancient_Rome
The Romans had toilets with running water. They knew all about sanitation during WW1, it's just that they could do feck all about it with 100,000 soldiers in a trench for 6 months in 3 feet of mud.

Dan_Solo

Terrlock wrote: »

Some 3,500 years ago God commanded His people to have a place outside the camp where they could relieve themselves. They were to each carry a shovel so that they could dig a hole (latrine) and cover their waste. Up until World War I, more soldiers died from disease than war because they did not isolate human waste.

Primitives.
http://www.sewerhistory.org/chronos/early_roots.htm
They had proper toilets thousands of miles away more than 1000 years before your god had his brainwave.

floggg

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

I'm a bit confused now, because I have been alerted to this and this.

Are you saying they would have happened anyway?

I'm pretty sure the Stig statute was the work of the Devil

/Jeremy Clarkson

floggg

Ghost Buster wrote: »

JRR Tolkien teaches of Hobbits and Bolrogs. I also deny their existence

Then how do you explain Michael D Higgins?

floggg

TireeTerror wrote: »

Its actually an insult to the intelligence of all of mankind to try and make sense of religion.

I honestly do not even know why I am wasting my time discussing such a silly matter, religion is a fabricated steaming pile of dog turd that does not even stand against the slightest of reasoning.

For some reason it is acceptable to have places of worship where we indoctrinate people and brainwash them into believing in a complete and total fantasy.

The Vatican should be held accountable for its sins against humanity and all places of worship raised to the ground or converted into something that betters humanity. Any establishment that shelters and covers up murders, child molestation and many more heinous crimes ought to be disbanded.

Vile corrupt evil men praying upon society's weak and vulnerable. They have managed to become so ingrained into our society even more intelligent beings have succumbed to their con. It is all a lie and anyone saying otherwise is a weak victim and is delusional.

Is it any wonder sometime atheists have a bad name.

floggg

Terrlock wrote: »

I'm not talking about a Muslim God, Greek God or even a Roman God. I'm talking about The God of gods, the god who created all things. The God who brought the universe into being and breaths life into all who inhabit it.

The God of gods? You mean Zeus?

floggg

Terrlock wrote: »

Nope, I don't think it's because of my circumstances, if it was I'd either be a Roman Catholic or atheist leaning far more on the atheist side of the fence, certainly not a born again Christian.

There are plenty of christians also in muslim countries. However the muslims kill a lot of them.

It doesn't depend on where your brought up, that's just a fallacy.

So if you were born in rural India, and never heard of the bible or christianity, there's a god chance you would be Catholic?

Sure!

kunst nugget

K4t wrote: »

Extreme

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk

floggg

Terrlock wrote: »

The Jews consist of only one tribe of Israel whom came out of Egypt. Moses is said to have written the first 5 books of the torah. Was he a Jew?



They knew the world was around, when every other culture didn't.

They knew the world floats in space, while other cultures thought it sat on the back of a turtle.

they knew that everything was made up of particles, indiscernible to our eyes(Atoms and such)

They knew the ideal dimension for ship stability thousands of years before the rest of the world.


They knew when dealing with disease, clothes and body should be washed under running water.

Some 3,500 years ago God commanded His people to have a place outside the camp where they could relieve themselves. They were to each carry a shovel so that they could dig a hole (latrine) and cover their waste. Up until World War I, more soldiers died from disease than war because they did not isolate human waste.

They knew the oceans contains springs - We didn't know that until the 1970's

They knew that our bodies were made from Dust - Scientists have discovered that the human body is comprised of some 28 base and trace elements – all of which are found in the earth.

The list really goes on and on. These are not something a so called primitive people would know about.

Most of those statements were either fairly obvious (even pets tend not to **** where they sleep), known to other (pagan) cultures independently of god/the bible or else very stretched interpretations of biblical passages.

But do tell me about the bolded one, I'd be interested to hear all about it.

jobbridge4life

floggg wrote: »

So if you were born in rural India, and never heard of the bible or christianity, there's a god chance you would be Catholic?

Sure!

Don't be so incredulous. Terrlock also hypothesized that he might be an atheist. Seems like an odd combination of possibilities to me but then faith is all about believing in the unlikely.

K4t

kunst nugget wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk

Do you not find it somewhat contradictory that you and many other posters are arguing against the existence of god or a specific god and all that it entails, questioning those religious beliefs, essentially arguing against irrational and illogical thinking. Yet my hope that some day the majority of people think the same as you and those posters openly without any fear or shame, is seen as extreme. (and before you mention religious oppression I've never suggesting anything other than education (secular) and discourse as the ways of achieving this. If anything, by labelling me as extreme you are being both hypocritical and contradictory, and your argument could be viewed as condescending towards people of faith. I want to argue with reason and logic through discourse, actively opposing indoctrination and irrational beliefs, you simply want to argue with reason and logic but will simply ignore the indoctrination or the irrational beliefs and leave them to their beliefs, they're not harming anyone etc.

Dan_Solo

Terrlock wrote: »

they knew that everything was made up of particles, indiscernible to our eyes(Atoms and such)

Things are made of smaller things... that is an astounding insight. A caveman cracking a rock 100000 years earlier would never have know this. :rolleyes:

danrua01

I like how Terrlock backs up his information.

Dan_Solo

danrua01 wrote: »

I like how Terrlock backs up his information.

In the original Aramaic, Jesus clearly says "though shalt not have in vitro fertilization or genetically modified babies. And nuclear fusion is sinful.". They knew all about that stuff back then you see.

danrua01

Dan_Solo wrote: »

In the original Aramaic, Jesus clearly says "though shalt not have in vitro fertilization or genetically modified babies. And nuclear fusion is sinful.". They knew all about that stuff back then you see.

That's true. I also remember him saying "I have shall give Hollywood producers all information regarding time dilation and black holes, specifically for Interstellar".

Terrlock

floggg wrote: »

The God of gods? You mean Zeus?

No I'm not talking about any so call God of Bal.

I'm talking about the one true God, whom through all things were created.

PopePalpatine

Terrlock wrote: »

No I'm not talking about any so call God of Bal.

I'm talking about the one true God, whom through all things were created.

The Flying Spaghetti Monster?

Dan_Solo

Terrlock wrote: »

No I'm not talking about any so call God of Bal.

I'm talking about the one true God, whom through all things were created.

It's my arse, isn't it? Well the sun shines out of it so that's close enough to Genesis for me.

jobbridge4life

Terrlock wrote: »

I'm talking about the one true God, whom through all things were created.

Ah cool that leaves us with literally millions to choose from.

Donkey Oaty

Terrlock wrote: »

No I'm not talking about any so call God of Bal.

I'm talking about the one true God, whom through all things were created.

Speaking of Ba'al, does everyone know that he was into GAA?

seamus

Dan_Solo wrote: »

In the original Aramaic, Jesus clearly says "though shalt not have in vitro fertilization or genetically modified babies. And nuclear fusion is sinful.". They knew all about that stuff back then you see.

No, no, it's not that. It's because the bible is so perfectly written that the information it contains is only revealed to humanity when they are sufficiently advanced to interpret it in that way.

Never mind the fact that a new interpretation may be the complete opposite of the original interpretation, or that the actual ideas seem to come about before they are found in the bible....one eh....cannot know the will of God, and so on.

K4t

Arguing with people like Terrlock is extremely stupid. You are repeatedly using reason and logic against an argument which requires the absence of both. You cannot reason with a person like that and rarely if ever will you change their mind through discourse, and if anything, by simply prolonging the argument, it only serves to strengthen their beliefs. They are exactly the people that should be left alone on a personal level as you are only encouraging their convictions concerning faith. That is why it is so important that the youth of the country is free from the indoctrination legally permitted being perpetrated by his kind in our schools. We as a society owe it to future generations to make our state a secular one. And that is why we must be vigorous and unrelenting in our strive for that state (absolutely not through religious oppression I must stress but through simply separating the church and state and making Ireland a truly secular state), even if moderates, atheists and religious believers alike see it as an extreme view.

kunst nugget

K4t wrote: »

And that is why we must be vigorous and unrelenting in our strive for that state (absolutely not through religious oppression I must stress but through simply separating the church and state and making Ireland a truly secular state), even if moderates, atheists and religious believers alike see it as an extreme view.

This isn't an extreme view. Why do you keep thinking it is?