Stephen Fry on confronting god after death

suicide_circus

As someone with over 50% of my life left to live, I wouldn't knock anyone who is approaching the end of their life and is frightened and looking for answers and takes comfort in the notion of a god.

Omackeral

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

gay byrne looks like kermit the frog now

...but that's none of my business.

Buona Fortuna

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Well then hes crap at communicating with the beings he loves and created in his own image and all that. very sloppy for an uberbring

That's true - I suppose these days he'd do an AMA.

Howabout it Dav, any good connections?

AryaStark

suicide_circus wrote: »

As someone with over 50% of my life left to live, I wouldn't knock anyone who is approaching the end of their life and is frightened and looking for answers and takes comfort in the notion of a god.

I think that anybody over the age of 50 and religious is fine, I respect them and have no problems with their beliefs. Anybody under the age of 50 is a problem for me. I cannot respect anybody who is religious and thinks that they are intelligent. If you can think clearly then you should direct that at your religion. Its such a joke when you break it down that it shocks me when I find out that somebody I know actually believes in god!

suicide_circus

AryaStark wrote: »

I think that anybody over the age of 50 and religious is fine, I respect them and have no problems with their beliefs.

How generous of you, I'm sure they'll be relieved.

AryaStark

suicide_circus wrote: »

How generous of you, I'm sure they'll be relieved.

Probably not but not my problem!!! Its only my personal view. And I don't really have much in common with religious people so it is usually not a problem and we don't mix.
I was brought up as an atheist and used to argue my point and try to get it across but it usually is a waste of time. Now I don't bother arguing and just try to stay away from the madness.

conorh91

What I find even most ridiculous is the application of human traits to God. Stephen Fry talks about God like He's some sort of abusive father burning His children with lit cigarettes. God never claimed to be a human being, and the Roman Catholic Church has always taught that original justice pervaded until it was usurped by man himself, acting freely.

In fact, atheists and Christians have this much in common: the evil in the world is largely the work of man acting freely. Evil prevails when man forfeits justice, which he does on a daily basis. God has set in train a mechanical world where consequences fall like dominoes, and the same processes that cause healing can also cause suffering (such as cell division, with its life-giving and cancer-causing possibilities).

namloc1980

conorh91 wrote: »

What I find even most ridiculous is the application of human traits to God. Stephen Fry talks about God like He's some sort of abusive father burning His children with lit cigarettes. God never claimed to be a human being, and the Roman Catholic Church has always taught that original justice pervaded until it was usurped by man himself, acting freely.

In fact, atheists and Christians have this much in common: the evil in the world is largely the work of man acting freely. Evil prevails when man forfeits justice, which he does on a daily basis. God has set in train a mechanical world where consequences fall like dominoes, and the same processes that cause healing can also cause suffering (such as cell division, with its life-giving and cancer-causing possibilities).

Ah the "free will" excuse. It usually goes like this: something good happens and it's God at work, but something bad happens and it's put down to evil man acting freely / Satan at work.

conorh91

namloc1980 wrote: »

It usually goes like this: something good happens and it's God at work, but something bad happens and it's put down to evil man acting freely / Satan at work.

Well that's reasonable in its own way. If God represents perfect virtue, it would appear sensible to conclude that He is responsible for inculcating the human condition with virtious traits which in turn give rise to virtuous acts, and not evil traits and evil acts.

Free will is free will. The good outcomes of free will derive from God; the adverse outcomes ultimately derive from man supplanting original justice.

Well, so the teaching goes.

PopePalpatine

AryaStark wrote: »

Probably not but not my problem!!! Its only my personal view. And I don't really have much in common with religious people so it is usually not a problem and we don't mix.
I was brought up as an atheist and used to argue my point and try to get it across but it usually is a waste of time. Now I don't bother arguing and just try to stay away from the madness.

There's no gods but death, am I right?

RobertKK

namloc1980 wrote: »

Ah the "free will" excuse. It usually goes like this: something good happens and it's God at work, but something bad happens and it's put down to evil man acting freely / Satan at work.

Sometimes something bad happens but the overall consequences of the bad is better than if the bad stuff hadn't happened.
Just from experience.

yipeeeee

Free will is an illusion, and the biggest con mankind has ever been sold.

Donkey Oaty

One thing I have learnt from experience is that people espousing the kind of patronising cod-theology we are getting on this thread will at some point recognise that they are losing, and will then try and halt the discussion by pulling out a guitar and singing a song about Jesus.

K4t

haveringchick wrote: »

Sorry but im one of the mmost rational logical pragmatic and practical people you will ever meet but for the life of me I will never understand why you feel the need to impress your opinion of his belief system on him. Would uou feel similarly compelled to try and change his mind about his flower beds or his child rearing policy?

I cannot believe you based on your arguments. If his flower beds or his child rearing policy influenced life and the way people think then yes. By your argument, the guy who believes in rape and murder as virtouous and normal acceptable behaviour should be left alone to hold his beliefs without anyone ever questioning them. And not only that but he should be left alone to instill his beliefs on others and run for government on those beliefs without anyone questioning the rationality or logic behind said beliefs. We should leave him and his followers alone and not "impress our opinion of his belief system on him or his potentially many followers". Spare me your "leave them alone they never harmed anyone" liberal attempt at seeming tolerant and accepting of religion.

billyhead

AryaStark wrote: »

I think that anybody over the age of 50 and religious is fine, I respect them and have no problems with their beliefs. Anybody under the age of 50 is a problem for me. I cannot respect anybody who is religious and thinks that they are intelligent. If you can think clearly then you should direct that at your religion. Its such a joke when you break it down that it shocks me when I find out that somebody I know actually believes in god!

Such a stupid statement. Freewill and all that. Its none of your business what age someone is who believes in a God in whatever form. They are probaly a better person because of it.

Venus In Furs

billyhead wrote: »

Such a stupid statement. Freewill and all that. Its none of your business what age someone is who believes in a God in whatever form. They are probaly a better person because of it.

I disagree too with sneering at someone aged under 50 for being religious, but I can't see how the probability of them being a better person increases.

billyhead

Venus In Furs wrote: »

I disagree too with sneering at someone aged under 50 for being religious, but I can't see how the probability of them being a better person increases.

Well if they are Catgolics and act upon what they preach i.e 10 commandments surely it keeps them on the straight and narrow.

Venus In Furs

billyhead wrote: »

Well if they are Catgolics and act upon what they preach i.e 10 commandments surely it keeps them on the straight and narrow.

And if they don't? :pac:
I don't know anyone religious who follows all the teachings. They believe in god and go to mass (when not hungover), that's about it.
They're nice people but no nicer than those I know who don't believe. They are voting yes on gay marriage and are pro-choice - those go against their religion.

RobertKK

I believe in a God, I'm under 40, I love science and it is not for me to judge others on what they believe or don't believe, whatever helps one get through this life.

Captain Chaos

billyhead wrote: »

Well if they are Catgolics and act upon what they preach i.e 10 commandments surely it keeps them on the straight and narrow.

What if they follow the early part of the bible with God going around killing and being vengeful just cause he can.

It's nice being able to pick out the parts of religion you want and forget the rest. Like a kid at a pick and mix in a sweet shop all for the sake of feeling good.

Mars Bar

padd b1975 wrote: »

Fry is nothing more than a pompous, narcissistic, and slightly boorish oaf who likes the sound of his own opinions.

The fact that he has managed to carve out a lucrative career as a social commentator on the back of this is a mystery to me.

As for him being gay........meh!

I've seen people say this a lot and they are all fúcking wrong.

Fry made his career in writing comedy and acting (and then presenting). Himself, Hugh and Emma Thompson made their fame through the cambridge footlights at the Edinburgh festival and they grew from there.
He just happens to have a lot to say. He knows he sounds posh and he acknowledges the fact that for some bizarre reason people take his opinion more seriously coz he is well spoken. He isn't famous solely BECAUSE he has a lot to say.

cloud493

Mars Bar wrote: »

I've seen people say this a lot and they are all fúcking wrong.

Fry made his career in writing comedy and acting (and then presenting). Himself, Hugh and Emma Thompson made their fame through the cambridge footlights at the Edinburgh festival and they grew from there.
He just happens to have a lot to say. He knows he sounds posh and he acknowledges the fact that for some bizarre reason people take his opinion more seriously coz he is well spoken. He isn't famous solely BECAUSE he has a lot to say.

I do love a bit of fry and laurie.

muzzlemint

Fair play to Fry ... good answer ..

branie2

I can imagine the calls to Joe Duffy on Monday Afternoon after this

Sheldons Brain

Confront God? I think I know how that will work out.

BlaasForRafa

billyhead wrote: »

Well if they are Catgolics and act upon what they preach i.e 10 commandments surely it keeps them on the straight and narrow.

There are plenty of crimes that the 10 commandments don't mention including rape and sexual assault.

Wildlife Actor

Venus In Furs wrote: »

And if they don't? :pac:
I don't know anyone religious who follows all the teachings. They believe in god and go to mass (when not hungover), that's about it.
They're nice people but no nicer than those I know who don't believe. They are voting yes on gay marriage and are pro-choice - those go against their religion.

In fairness to the old 10 commandments, there's nothing in them against gay marriage. Honouring your father and mother might be difficult without having both, but plenty people don't know their "real" father and mother and it can't be said they are sinning. And if the foetus isn't a person (now there's a question), that's not covered either.

random1337

This is cultural Marxism being implemented. With a bit of research you can easily find out 80% of prominent atheists in western media are Jewish. They hack away at Christianity in the media on a daily basis. It's already working as your average middle class tom joe is an intellectual atheist 'too smart' to believe on God. One of the things that unite us as the Irish peoples is falling apart. Our cultural identity is being destroyed. With the high levels of immigration, soon we will not even be bound by blood. We will be a faithless, classless, raceless society ready to become drones for the world elite. And this is happening all over Europe. But hey don't listen to me, I'm just an ultra right wing racist, right?

shruikan2553

random1337 wrote: »

This is cultural Marxism being implemented. With a bit of research you can easily find out 80% of prominent atheists are Jewish. They hack away at Christianity in the media on a daily basis. It's already working as your average middle class tom joe is an intellectual atheist 'too smart' to believe on God. One of the things that unite us as the Irish peoples is falling apart. Our cultural identity is being destroyed. With the high levels of immigration, soon we will not even be bound by blood. We will be a faithless, classless, raceless society ready to become drones for the world elite. And this is happening all over Europe. But hey don't listen to me, I'm just an ultra right wing racist, right?

You forgot to blame the liberal PC homoerotic agenda.

Venus In Furs

random1337 wrote: »

I'm just an ultra right wing racist, right?

Pretty much.

bodice ripper

random1337 wrote: »

This is cultural Marxism being implemented. With a bit of research you can easily find out 80% of prominent atheists in western media are Jewish. They hack away at Christianity in the media on a daily basis. It's already working as your average middle class tom joe is an intellectual atheist 'too smart' to believe on God. One of the things that unite us as the Irish peoples is falling apart. Our cultural identity is being destroyed. With the high levels of immigration, soon we will not even be bound by blood. We will be a faithless, classless, raceless society ready to become drones for the world elite. And this is happening all over Europe. But hey don't listen to me, I'm just an ultra right wing racist, right?

I imagine you wrote this in your basement, under a flickering bare bulb.

PopePalpatine

bodice ripper wrote: »

I imagine you wrote this in your basement, under a flickering bare bulb.

With mammy bringing him Doritos. :pac:

Of course, random1337 conveniently ignores the oppression of the working class that take place in more "Christian" societies before the early 20th century.

random1337

shruikan2553 wrote: »

You forgot to blame the liberal PC homoerotic agenda.

Venus In Furs wrote: »

Pretty much.

bodice ripper wrote: »

I imagine you wrote this in your basement, under a flickering bare bulb.

PopePalpatine wrote: »

With mammy bringing him Doritos. :pac:

I knew this would happen and that's okay, you can make fun of me I dont care. I'm entitled to my opinion. I believe every citizen has a country and a cultural identity. And he has a right to defend that country and identity.

If you go to Saudi you will be stoned to death for making fun of Islam. It may be a bit extreme but Muslims have the right to defend their beliefs and values in THEIR country. Here in Ireland, Christian bashing is accepted and encouraged.
But here in the West we have to bend over and let foreign peoples do as they please and not respect the traditions we have here. And if you speak out against it you are called a Bigot, no life basement dweller. Which just happened from the responses to my post.

Tell me, people of Ireland. In 50 years when we become a minority in our own country, which will happen based on current demographic trends. Will Ireland still be Ireland?

shruikan2553

random1337 wrote: »

I knew this would happen and that's okay, you can make fun of me I dont care. I'm entitled to my opinion. I believe every citizen has a country and a cultural identity. And he has a right to defend that country and identity.

If you go to Saudi you will be stoned to death for making fun of religion. It may be a bit extreme but Muslims have the right to defend their beliefs and values in THEIR country.
But here in the West we have to bend over and let foreign peoples do as they please and not respect the traditions we have here. And if you speak out against it you are called a Bigot, no life basement dweller. Which just happened from the responses to my post.

Tell me, people of Ireland. In 50 years when we become a minority in our own country, which will happen based on current demographic trends. Will Ireland still be Ireland?

I already am a minority. But I agree, we should be more like saudi arabia. A few stonings will have crime at an all time low and if we beat anyone who dares question us they should learn to stop.

random1337

PopePalpatine wrote: »

With mammy bringing him Doritos. :pac:

Of course, random1337 conveniently ignores the oppression of the working class that take place in more "Christian" societies before the early 20th century.

I'm not a radical Christian, I'm probably even semi-agnostic. I just recognise how importnat the traditional family values and moral values that come with Christianity is for the good of the Irish people and the European peoples. I understand Christianity isn't perfect like every world religion but it's portrayal in the media over recent decades is breaking down the barriers of our cultural identity.

I know 90% of people here will think I'm a nut-job but just ask yourselves, who runs the media? And then ask yourself who Karl Marx was and how his ideas on breaking down cultural identities can overthrow capitalism and lead the way to marxism/communism are relevant today. This happened in Russia (Atheist and communist country) where millions of white christians were genocided and it went unnoticed in our media over the past 100 years.

Ah-Watch

My reponse is short and sweet. I don't believe in God. I would have much the same opinion as Stephen Fry but what I do have a problem with is people trying to shove religion and God on me. I don't care for God in my life. He bears little to no relevance To me. Some may say it's ignorant and where do I believe XYZ came from or how it came about. For now and the last 20 years of my life I couldn't give a fiddlers about it. Maybe later in life I'll form some belief but if it hasn't happened yet I dunno will it ever happen.

On the flip side Someone reminded me lately about the church or cathedral or whatever it is (see how little it impacts my life) around the twin towers was left without any windows damaged from 9/11 that does lead me to question it a tiny bit whether I believe or not but not enough to go to church or call myself Catholic or anything of the nature.

Yeah it wasn't that short of an answer sorry

Ghost Buster

random1337 wrote: »

I knew this would happen and that's okay, you can make fun of me I dont care. I'm entitled to my opinion. I believe every citizen has a country and a cultural identity. And he has a right to defend that country and identity.

If you go to Saudi you will be stoned to death for making fun of Islam. It may be a bit extreme but Muslims have the right to defend their beliefs and values in THEIR country. Here is Ireland, Christian bashing is accepted and encouraged.
But here in the West we have to bend over and let foreign peoples do as they please and not respect the traditions we have here. And if you speak out against it you are called a Bigot, no life basement dweller. Which just happened from the responses to my post

Tell me, people of Ireland. In 50 years when we become a minority in our own country, which will happen based on current demographic trends. Will Ireland still be Ireland?

I yearn for the good old days of Celtic Paganism before this flash in the pan Christianity destroyed our cultural identity with their Latin / middle Eastern voodoo

random1337

shruikan2553 wrote: »

You forgot to blame the liberal PC homoerotic agenda.

I didn't mention that because that's essentially what Marxism is, just a different name for it.

lazygal

random1337 wrote: »

I'm not a radical Christian, I'm probably even semi-agnostic. I just recognise how importnat the traditional family values and moral values that come with Christianity is for the good of the Irish people and the European peoples.

What exactly are traditional family and moral values? And what makes them exclusively Christian in nature?

Ghost Buster

random1337 wrote: »

I knew this would happen and that's okay, you can make fun of me I dont care. I'm entitled to my opinion. I believe every citizen has a country and a cultural identity. And he has a right to defend that country and identity.

If you go to Saudi you will be stoned to death for making fun of Islam. It may be a bit extreme but Muslims have the right to defend their beliefs and values in THEIR country. Here is Ireland, Christian bashing is accepted and encouraged.
But here in the West we have to bend over and let foreign peoples do as they please and not respect the traditions we have here. And if you speak out against it you are called a Bigot, no life basement dweller. Which just happened fr the responses to my post.

Tell me, people of Ireland. In 50 years when we become a minority in our own country, which will happen based on current demographic trends. Will Ireland still be Ireland?

I won't be one of the minority!

Venus In Furs

Marxism is an economic theory - what's with the applying it to anything?

Loafing Oaf

random1337 wrote: »

I know 90% of people here will think I'm a nut-job but just ask yourselves, who runs the media?

Well in Ireland the most powerful figure is Denis O'Brien, are you gonna tell me his family are Eastern European immigrants whose real name is Obreistein...

Ghost Buster

random1337 wrote: »

I knew this would happen and that's okay, you can make fun of me I dont care. I'm entitled to my opinion. I believe every citizen has a country and a cultural identity. And he has a right to defend that country and identity.

If you go to Saudi you will be stoned to death for making fun of Islam. It may be a bit extreme but Muslims have the right to defend their beliefs and values in THEIR country. Here is Ireland, Christian bashing is accepted and encouraged.
But here in the West we have to bend over and let foreign peoples do as they please and not respect the traditions we have here. And if you speak out against it you are called a Bigot, no life basement dweller. Which just happened fr the responses to my post.

Tell me, people of Ireland. In 50 years when we become a minority in our own country, which will happen based on current demographic trends. Will Ireland still be Ireland?

I won't be one of the minority!

random1337

Ghost Buster wrote: »

I yearn for the good old days of Celtic Paganism before this flash in the pan Christianity destroyed our cultural identity with their Latin / middle Eastern voodoo

Stop making fun of me, I'm just trying to point out the dangers of Marxism, but it's looks like I'm getting nowhere.
But you are naive if you think there isn't strange forces at work and don't question the systematic migration of foreign peoples into Europe since the end of WWII. Never before has a tribe or race used 'multiculturalism' as a means of progressing forward. Every species and group of humans in times past has battled and endured the elements for the survival of their own. NOT to bring outsiders in and live amongst them and 'outbreed' them. Lifeforms are selfish and only seek to provide for their kind, this new wave of Marxism is grossly unnatural to basic instinct.

I am in no way a White supremacist that some of you are accusing me of as I believe every race and group of people on Earth deserves their own lands where they can protect their heritage and base their laws and government on their moral values and way of life.

Zack Morris

Venus In Furs wrote: »

Marxism is an economic theory - what's with the applying it to anything?

No, it isn't just an economic theory. Marx didn't believe in borders, which would obviously lead to immigration and multiculturalism.

Buona Fortuna

Ah-Watch wrote: »

On the flip side Someone reminded me lately about the church or cathedral or whatever it is (see how little it impacts my life) around the twin towers was left without any windows damaged from 9/11 that does lead me to question it a tiny bit whether I believe or not but not enough to go to church or call myself Catholic or anything of the nature.

How nice a God that could protect a building but let several thousands burn to death or fall to their deaths.

Maybe that is proof of some sort of God - if it is I don't care.

Eutow

Buona Fortuna wrote: »

How nice a God that could protect a building but let several thousands burn to death or fall to their deaths.

Maybe that is proof of some sort of God - if it is I don't care.

If it is, then I still want nothing to do with this god. When the time comes I just want to die in peace in my sleep and that to be the end of it.

Ghost Buster

random1337 wrote: »

Stop making fun of me, I'm just trying to point out the dangers of Marxism, but it's looks like I'm getting nowhere.
But you are naive if you think there isn't strange forces at work and don't question the systematic migration of foreign peoples into Europe since the end of WWII. Never before has a tribe or race used 'multiculturalism' as a means of progressing forward. Every species and group of humans in times past has battled and endured the elements for the survival of their own. NOT to bring outsiders in and live amongst them and 'outbreed' them. Lifeforms are selfish and only seek to provide for their kind, this new wave of Marxism is grossly unnatural to basic insti
I am in no way a White supremacist that some of you are accusing me of as I believe every race and group of people on Earth deserves their own lands where they can protect their heritage and base their laws and government on their moral values and way of life.

And Im just saying that since man came out of the trees we have moved about the globe, countries have changed, cultures have changed. Its always happened. It always will. Stop fretting.

random1337

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Well in Ireland the most powerful figure is Denis O'Brien, are you gonna tell me his family are Eastern European immigrants whose real name is Obreistein...

I don't know but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a few of those in some high up positions in RTE. Anyway the ****e they pump out on Zionist controlled American TV is definitely rubbing off here with the leftist bollocks that's fed to the masses from RTE nowadays. Even children's cartoons are infested by subtle liberal BS.

lazygal

random1337 wrote: »

I don't know but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a few of those in some high up positions in RTE. Anyway the ****e they pump out on Zionist controlled American TV is definitely rubbing off here with the leftist bollocks that's fed to the masses from RTE nowadays. Even children's cartoons are infested by subtle liberal BS.

What's liberal bs? Equality for women and gay people?