Another croke park gig

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alastair wrote: »

They could certainly provide info about the range of possible slots they're in discussions over. That wouldn't tie them to any specific commitment, but at least offer a ballpark over potentially disruptive blocks. Croke Park will already know the range of possibilities for which tours could slot into their available blocks - even if they don't want to discuss the specific gig dates ahead of seeking planning permission.

Sure I can help you out there - it's going to be between June 1 and September 30 and not on any GAA match day.

They don't know and speculation from them would only end up in residents going mental if it happened on another date to what they had planned around. They need to hang on until confirmation.

Mushy

Get Real wrote: »

It may have been said on here, and they're always thrown somewhere in there with the speculation, but u2?

Now, first thing that rules them out is this tour they're doing indoor arenas.

However:

1) when they announced their tour, they left Ireland out.

2) this is because Ireland will recieve a "special" dedicated slot for the tour.

3) the tour starts in may, running up til oct/nov. The shows play with relative frequency, apart from August, when there is an entire 1 MONTH break. Their last concert is around 30/31 July in New york, then nothing mentioned for August, before venues and tickets are available in September in Europe.

4) I have come to the conclusion that the Irish part of the tour may well be in August as it is the only "free slot" the band have to include Ireland on its tour. They said from the outset special arrangements would be announced at a later date for Ireland. This could be a reason for an argument against point (1) that its indoor venues this tour. Also, they finish July 30th in New York, then start back September 4th in Italy.

Don't they start in May/June in America/Canada? August is a break month, 100% of bands will take breaks between legs of tours, they aren't machines and will need to see family etc. (some bands take a week off in the middle of legs of tours to return home, look at metallica last year, did some of Europe, then nothing, then back for rest of it, although I'm sure money accounts for part of it too).

And wasn't it mentioned they would play in the Point again for the Irish shows?

ghostdancer

August is when the GAA Championships are at the busiest, so pretty much no chance there's a gig (U2 or otherwise) then.

Coldplay in late June using the same stage that will be set up for The Script.
either the same weekend as The Script, or the following weekend on whichever night they're not playing Glastonbury.

it will probably be announced when Coldplay themselves a world tour, hence MCD/Aiken making no comment as the tour will be announced in one go by the band when they're ready.

Tearin It Up

ghostdancer wrote: »

August is when the GAA Championships are at the busiest, so pretty much no chance there's a gig (U2 or otherwise) then.

Coldplay in late June using the same stage that will be set up for The Script.
either the same weekend as The Script, or the following weekend on whichever night they're not playing Glastonbury.

it will probably be announced when Coldplay themselves a world tour, hence MCD/Aiken making no comment as the tour will be announced in one go by the band when they're ready.

There was a guy in here a couple of months ago who worked for the Aviva who said Coldplay are booked in for the Aviva. Now he also said the Eagles were too but they seem to be finished their tour in March. So I don't I see them coming around again.

Could it be an American act, wasn't Aiken in the states during the week, could it have been on a work related trip.

alastair

nm wrote: »

Sure I can help you out there - it's going to be between June 1 and September 30 and not on any GAA match day.

You seem to be determined to miss the point. Residents already know this - what's of concern is determining when there's likely to be disruption. Perhaps you also come from the Croke Park school of community relations, but that's not proved to be particularly useful to date. They know the potential dates, they could flag them earlier to the community.

nm wrote: »

They don't know and speculation from them would only end up in residents going mental if it happened on another date to what they had planned around. They need to hang on until confirmation.

Who says they don't know? You seriously believe that the potential dates for this summer aren't marked up on their calendar already? That the typical advanced arrangements for large summer tours suddenly don't apply? They don't need to speculate, they already know the likely dates, and no-one is going to hold them to a definite date ahead of seeking planning permission.

chickenlicken2

nm wrote: »

Sure I can help you out there - it's going to be between June 1 and September 30 and not on any GAA match day.

They don't know and speculation from them would only end up in residents going mental if it happened on another date to what they had planned around. They need to hang on until confirmation.

Appreciate that. My point is
1. In relation to official announcements there was an announcement by Croke Park Monday that another large gig will take place over the summer.
2. What I pick up from the tone of the piece in the Times is assurances were given last year that the residents would be taken into consideration yet they haven't received any communication from the GAA on this.

ghostdancer

chickenlicken2 wrote: »

Appreciate that. My point is
1. There was an announcement by Croke Park Monday that another large gig will take place over the summer.
2. What I pick up from the tone of the piece in the Times is assurances were given last year that the residents would be taken into consideration yet they haven't received any communication from the GAA on this.

the GAA don't need to give them any communication and don't owe them anything.
there is nothing to suggest that they haven't already been "taken into consideration" when this gig was planned.

John_Rambo

ghostdancer wrote: »

the GAA don't need to give them any communication and don't owe them anything

Odd attitude some of you have. I don't owe my neighbours anything either but I communicate with them and if I'm getting noisy work done or if I'm having a party I let them know. It's manners, that's how we role in Dublin. Croke Park needs to learn some manners.

Tearin It Up

My mother was so funny about the residents complaining again. They spend long enough dead, they should lighten up.

alastair

ghostdancer wrote: »

the GAA don't need to give them any communication and don't owe them anything.

Yes they do, and yes, they do.
Croke Park have an obligation of consideration to the community they operate within - a reality that they acknowledge, even if you don't quite grasp that obligation. And yes, they owe the local community plenty in terms of disruption and years of breaching their terms of operation.

As I say, I personally don't mind the gigs. Croke Park do much good in the area, but that doesn't give them carte blanche to ride roughshod over legitimate community concerns. There are some residents with an axe to grind regarding Croke Park, but there's a greater number who just became sick of tolerating a level of nuisance above and beyond.

ghostdancer wrote: »

there is nothing to suggest that they haven't already been "taken into consideration" when this gig was planned.

Well, there is actually. They/we know nothing about it, which is something of a suggestion. Unless you're suggesting that Croke Park are best placed to determine what's best for the local community, rather than the community itself?

chickenlicken2

ghostdancer wrote: »

the GAA don't need to give them any communication and don't owe them anything.
there is nothing to suggest that they haven't already been "taken into consideration" when this gig was planned.

Given the dramatics and consequences of last year; courtesy and communication will clearly get a more positive result from the concerned parties. I'm not suggesting they hold public consultation with the residents or indeed they bend over backwards for them. However affording the respect to them to communicate directly with them, acknowledge concerns and listen can only serve to benefit all parties.

The gent in the article is saying they haven't received any information. That is what I picked up from it. A press announcement was made early last week by croke park, media speculation has been rife since. A simple direct letter to the residents group with exactly the same information as the press release would imply that they are being acknowledged.

Absolutely there is no obligation to do this. However it's well accepted; you catch more flies with sugar than vinegar.

ghostdancer

alastair wrote: »

Yes they do, and yes, they do.
Croke Park have an obligation of consideration to the community they operate within - a reality that they acknowledge, even if you don't quite grasp that obligation. And yes, they owe the local community plenty in terms of disruption and years of breaching their terms of operation.

As I say, I personally don't mind the gigs. Croke Park do much good in the area, but that doesn't give them carte blanche to ride roughshod over legitimate community concerns. There are some residents with an axe to grind regarding Croke Park, but there's a greater number who just became sick of tolerating a level of nuisance above and beyond.

an obligation of consideration can still be carried out without communication with residents.

alastair wrote: »

Well, there is actually. They/we know nothing about it, which is something of a suggestion. Unless you're suggesting that Croke Park are best placed to determine what's best for the local community, rather than the community itself?

none of that means that they haven't been taken into consideration.
just because they haven't come and told you how they did it and what their conclusions were doesn't mean it wasn't done.

ghostdancer

chickenlicken2 wrote: »

Given the dramatics and consequences of last year; courtesy and communication will clearly get a more positive result from the concerned parties. I'm not suggesting they hold public consultation with the residents or indeed they bend over backwards for them. However affording the respect to them to communicate directly with them, acknowledge concerns and listen can only serve to benefit all parties.

The gent in the article is saying they haven't received any information. That is what I picked up from it. A press announcement was made early last week by croke park, media speculation has been rife since. A simple direct letter to the residents group with exactly the same information as the press release would imply that they are being acknowledged.

Absolutely there is no obligation to do this. However it's well accepted; you catch more flies with sugar than vinegar.

and maybe when they have actually decided on what they're going to do, they will communicate to the residents who actually have legitimate cause for concern as to their plan of action.

given that this will be no different to concerts that are held every year, then I don't see what exactly a small number of residents are expecting right now.
it's no different to knowing that GAA matches will occur and that the usual plans and restrictions will occur when those matches are announced.

alastair

ghostdancer wrote: »

an obligation of consideration can still be carried out without communication with residents.


none of that means that they haven't been taken into consideration.
just because they haven't come and told you how they did it and what their conclusions were doesn't mean it wasn't done.

Ah, so you do believe it's down to Croke Park to determine what's best for the local residents, without reference to them. It's one point of view. I guess.

alastair

ghostdancer wrote: »

given that this will be no different to concerts that are held every year, then I don't see what exactly a small number of residents are expecting right now.
it's no different to knowing that GAA matches will occur and that the usual plans and restrictions will occur when those matches are announced.

It is different though. We know when games will take place, from the annual Croke Park fixtures calendar, that's published well ahead of time. The usual restrictions associated with even the bigger games don't really compare with the hassle associated with gigs - far longer road closures, rigging and de-rigging, staging trucks, people pissing in the streets, greater potential for general idiocy, etc. And what the residents expect is made quite clear in the IT article - information about the potential dates of disruption in a timely fashion.

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alastair wrote: »

It is different though. We know when games will take place, from the annual Croke Park fixtures calendar, that's published well ahead of time. The usual restrictions associated with even the bigger games don't really compare with the hassle associated with gigs - far longer road closures, rigging and de-rigging, staging trucks, people pissing in the streets, greater potential for general idiocy, etc. And what the residents expect is made quite clear in the IT article - information about the potential dates of disruption in a timely fashion.

They don't know exactly when the dates will be, as it's still being finalised (I presume). To give a list of maybes would be ridiculous, it would cause more problems than it solves.

ghostdancer

alastair wrote: »

It is different though. We know when games will take place, from the annual Croke Park fixtures calendar, that's published well ahead of time. The usual restrictions associated with even the bigger games don't really compare with the hassle associated with gigs - far longer road closures, rigging and de-rigging, staging trucks, people pissing in the streets, greater potential for general idiocy, etc. And what the residents expect is made quite clear in the IT article - information about the potential dates of disruption in a timely fashion.

and when the date for the concert is finalised and announced, you'll know.
same as every other year.

alastair

nm wrote: »

They don't know exactly when the dates will be, as it's still being finalised (I presume). To give a list of maybes would be ridiculous, it would cause more problems than it solves.

What problems would it cause, exactly?

ghostdancer

alastair wrote: »

Ah, so you do believe it's down to Croke Park to determine what's best for the local residents, without reference to them. It's one point of view. I guess.

no, that's not what I said at all.
no need to be pissy and flippant because Croke Park haven't written to you with a "we may hold a concert on XYZ date and the usual restrictions will apply" letter yet. i'm sure they will in due course, as usually happens for concerts that take place every year.

moaning about not being given the date just quite yet is pathetic really.

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alastair wrote: »

What problems would it cause, exactly?

People could plan around incorrect dates.

It literally solves nothing while the dates are unconfirmed (except potentially cause uproar if/when it changes).

alastair

ghostdancer wrote: »

moaning about not being given the date just quite yet is pathetic really.

It is? Given that Croke Park already know the dates, and it's no bother to them to provide that info to those it will impact? The recommendation to Croke Park was that they consult with residents over proposed dates as of next year, so why should it be so 'pathetic' to expect timely communication over this year's earmarked dates?

alastair

nm wrote: »

People could plan around incorrect dates.

It literally solves nothing while the dates are unconfirmed (except potentially cause uproar if/when it changes).

No need for Croke Park to provide incorrect dates. They already know the dates, so at a minimum, they can say, rule out August in it's entirity, and highlight week one of July as the week the gigs will take place in. Lots of ways to provide useful information to those working around the disruption, without letting any cats out of bags.

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alastair wrote: »

No need for Croke Park to provide incorrect dates. They already know the dates, so at a minimum, they can say, rule out August in it's entirity, and highlight week one of July as the week the gigs will take place in. Lots of ways to provide useful information to those working around the disruption, without letting any cats out of bags.

I'm not a promoter myself but I can't imagine the process is to decide a date, and then go looking to book an act that can do that date.

Surely they are waiting on confirmation from all involved parties themselves and when that happens on a date that everyone can do, the information is given out. Until that happens the venue date is probably flexible and there would always be the risk of change.
I would not give out unconfirmed dates, especially to residents with such a colourful history of complaining. They know from last year it'll be like walking on eggshells. I'm sure as soon as they can let the residents know the solid dates, they will.

hynesie08

nm wrote: »

I'm not a promoter myself but I can't imagine the process is to decide a date, and then go looking to book an act that can do that date.

Surely they are waiting on confirmation from all involved parties themselves and when that happens on a date that everyone can do, the information is given out. Until that happens the venue date is probably flexible and there would always be the risk of change.
I would not give out unconfirmed dates, especially to residents with such a colourful history of complaining. They know from last year it'll be like walking on eggshells. I'm sure as soon as they can let the residents know the solid dates, they will.

No, but there would be a very rough schedule drawn up between the artist and his management team so I'd say a general window is already known.

But would it have been that hard to show up to a residents meeting/send out a letter saying "we are in discussions to bring another major concert to croke park" you don't have to give away dates or acts yet, but when the questions asked (and it was always going to be) croke park can just say they've been keeping the residents informed.

Tearin It Up

alastair wrote: »

No need for Croke Park to provide incorrect dates. They already know the dates, so at a minimum, they can say, rule out August in it's entirity, and highlight week one of July as the week the gigs will take place in. Lots of ways to provide useful information to those working around the disruption, without letting any cats out of bags.

Here, it can happen anytime in May, June maybe the third week in July. Not on a match day on May 31st, the last weekend june, Or three weekends in July, or August. Or the day the script plays on June 20th.

That's for anyone that is too concerned for disruption and can't wait, the info is online.

John_Rambo

Tearin It Up wrote: »

Here, it can happen anytime in May, June maybe the third week in July. Not on a match day on May 31st, the last weekend june, Or three weekends in July, or August. Or the day the script plays on June 20th

Well, that narrows it down!

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John_Rambo wrote: »

Well, that narrows it down!

But that's exactly the point - they don't have the exact date nailed down, so any information at this stage is not worth it's salt.

Seems the real point is just that the residents want them to say something (anything), so the above is as good as anything else.

John_Rambo

nm wrote: »

But that's exactly the point - they don't have the exact date nailed down

Who told you that? Do you work there? If you do, why are you making announcements about upcoming gigs when you don't even have a date?

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John_Rambo wrote: »

Who told you that? Do you work there? If you do, why are you making announcements about upcoming gigs when you don't even have a date?

What in gods name are you talking about

alastair

nm wrote: »

But that's exactly the point - they don't have the exact date nailed down, so any information at this stage is not worth it's salt.

I'd be very surprised if they didn't have a firm set of dates at this stage. Given that summer tours are generally tied down by now, and these dates will be in the earlier part of the summer. So, the information they undoubtedly have, is very useful to anyone seeking to avoid disruption.

nm wrote: »

Seems the real point is just that the residents want them to say something (anything), so the above is as good as anything else.

It seems that way to you, does it? Despite all evidence to the contrary?