Running in the Real World

Ososlo

annapr wrote: »

Wore a heart rate monitor for the first time -- wasn't a proper test because I didn't push myself to the max as recommended. The readings seem high for the pace, not sure what to make of that. I'll try to do a proper test this week.

Avg HR: 163 bpm
Max HR: 182 bpm

Yeah the readings aren't really gonna mean much until you know what your max hr is. Then you'll know what % of your max you should run to for easy/recovery runs, mp runs, tempo runs etc.
Enjoy the test:D

annapr

The plan for today (Clearlier, week 2) called for 60 minutes, with 20 min at tempo pace.

Due to the wind and my current fondness for hills, I decided to do c.20 mins easy up to Albo (as Albert College Park is fondly known by teenage drinkers), 20 mins circuit of the park (2.5 laps) at tempo pace and 20 minutes easy back home (downhill and wind at my back).

The first 20 mins was fine, into the wind and uphill -- in retrospect, maybe a little fast for 'easy'/warmup pace. The 20 mins of tempo felt very tough. I was aiming for around 5:30/km based on McMillan's recommended training paces. The garmin was all over the place, partly because of the trees I think, so I stopped checking it and just tried to keep up the effort for 20 mins. I found it tough and had to ease off a few times, so I don't know if that counts as a proper tempo run. I only managed one km at 5:27, so not great.

I was very happy to slow right down and head downhill for home after that. Even though when I looked at it later, the paces were quite consistent, the effort definitely didn't feel that way.

A wise old runner told me that training paces should be determined by your current fitness levels, not what you aspire to... so those McMillan recommendations might be a bit high for now. Coming off several nights of poor sleep and with a headcold didn't help either. Excuses, excuse, just damn slow!

Got home and got a mild migraine -- I occasionally get exercise-induced migraines, which means I probably did push myself too hard, even though it doesn't look like it.

Used this as a heart rate test too: Max Hr was 203 bpm; Avg HR 174bpm.

10:28km/6.39mi in 1:01; Average Pace 5:56/km. 9:33/mi.

FBOT01

Those HR figures look very high, Anna. You might want to check the HRM is working correctly. There are many different ways of getting/checking your max heart rate but they say 220 minus your age is a good guide to zone it should be in.

annapr

FBOT01 wrote: »

Those HR figures look very high, Anna. You might want to check the HRM is working correctly. There are many different ways of getting/checking your max heart rate but they say 220 minus your age is a good guide to zone it should be in.

Thanks M, I thought they were very high too, and I didn't think I was working THAT hard. I haven't checked my resting HR with that monitor yet, so that will give me and indication of whether it's working right. Thanks for the age reminder :P

FBOT01

annapr wrote: »

Thanks M, I thought they were very high too, and I didn't think I was working THAT hard. I haven't checked my resting HR with that monitor yet, so that will give me and indication of whether it's working right. Thanks for the age reminder :P

At least I didn't do the calculation for you:D

yaboya1

So now we know what age you are:

220 - 203 (HRMax) = 17?

annapr

yaboya1 wrote: »

So now we know what age you are:

220 - 203 (HRMax) = 17?

Haha! Well if that's what the Garmin HRM suggests, it must be right. Mental age maybe

annapr

45 minutes easy:
45:03 min/7.02 km; Average Pace 6:25 min/km. 10:19 min/mi.
HR Avg 160 bpm;

Stayed flat today, back to the seafront... and slowed it down. Tried to concentrate on form. Still felt a bit tired in the second half, so I'm definitely blaming the head cold.

Avg HR was lower than yesterday, reflecting the effort I suppose. Also tested my resting heart rate using the same monitor and avg was 53bpm, which is about right. I must do a proper test to establish the right max (for a 17-year old )

annapr

Still thinking (obsessing) about this heart rate stuff... I plugged my numbers from this week into the calculator on the graduate thread (below). this gives me an average HR for the tempo (yesterday) and easy (today) that are in the right range, albeit at the higher end of the range.

Max Heart Rate 203
Resting Heart rate 53

% of Max Heart Rate|This week actual
Tempo 164 - 184 |174
Easy 142 - 164 |160

If the max was lower, say around 180, then the actuals would be too high. Ok, enough already, I will do a proper test, following the instructions in the links Clearlier provided... when I don't have a cold.

aquinn

annapr wrote: »

Still thinking (obsessing) about this heart rate stuff... I plugged my numbers from this week into the calculator on the graduate thread (below). this gives me an average HR for the tempo (yesterday) and easy (today) that are in the right range, albeit at the higher end of the range.

Max Heart Rate 203
Resting Heart rate 53

% of Max Heart Rate|This week actual
Tempo 164 - 184 |174
Easy 142 - 164 |160If the max was lower, say around 180, then the actuals would be too high. Ok, enough already, I will do a proper test, following the instructions in the links Clearlier provided... when I don't have a cold.

St Anne's Parkrun time. I'll be there for you, cheering!

Ososlo

annapr wrote: »

If the max was lower, say around 180, then the actuals would be too high. Ok, enough already, I will do a proper test, following the instructions in the links Clearlier provided... when I don't have a cold.

Yep I think you really have to approach it carefully, just like a race to give yourself the best chance of getting a proper reading. So taper for it so you're nice and fresh when you do it and do a good warm up and then try give it 100% effort for the test.
Make sure you're wetting the sensors on the strap also so as to ensure you won't get spikes and get an accurate reading.
Best of luck with it!

Ososlo

aquinn wrote: »

St Anne's Parkrun time. I'll be there for you, cheering!

Yes actually that's a great idea. Push yourself to your limit at the end of the race and you should get a good accurate reading. aquinn can holler at you for the last few 100meters to push you to capacity:D

aquinn

Ososlo wrote: »

Yes actually that's a great idea. Push yourself to your limit at the end of the race and you should get a good accurate reading. aquinn can holler at you for the last few 100meters to push you to capacity:D

Here to help :rolleyes:

adrian522

If you take your RHR by just counting your BPM does it come out the same as with the HR monitor?

annapr

aquinn wrote: »

Here to help :rolleyes:

:pac: bring the defibrillator just in case! or a flask of brandy

annapr

adrian522 wrote: »

If you take your RHR by just counting your BPM does it come out the same as with the HR monitor?

I didn't actually try that, but now you've given me something else to test! the monitor arrived at a reading similar to what I normally get for RHR...

menoscemo

Anna, it sounds like you just have a really high Max HR.
I don't think it's uncommon and certainly nothing to worry about if it's true. the old 220-Age formula is jfar from accurate for many people.
I wouldn't be surprised if you max is something like 220+ by the sounds of it. Just make sure that the max reading given to you after your run is not a 'spike' and is actually at the point of the run where you were working hardest (normally at the very end of a short race).
If the max HR reading is at the start of a run; ignore it as this often happens due to static electricity, you often need to build up a sweat to get an accurate reading. A lot of people just ignore the first 10-15 minutes of any run and work out average HR from after that point.

I'd definitely suggest a 5k race as a great place to get an approx max HR reading, just make sure to do a decent warmup so you can eliminate any spikes in the HRM reading.

annapr

menoscemo wrote: »

Anna, it sounds like you just have a really high Max HR.
I don't think it's uncommon and certainly nothing to worry about if it's true. the old 220-Age formula is jfar from accurate for many people.
I wouldn't be surprised if you max is something like 220+ by the sounds of it. Just make sure that the max reading given to you after your run is not a 'spike' and is actually at the point of the run where you were working hardest (normally at the very end of a short race).
If the max HR reading is at the start of a run; ignore it as this often happens due to static electricity, you often need to build up a sweat to get an accurate reading. A lot of people just ignore the first 10-15 minutes of any run and work out average HR from after that point.

I'd definitely suggest a 5k race as a great place to get an approx max HR reading, just make sure to do a decent warmup so you can eliminate any spikes in the HRM reading.

Thanks Meno, that's really helpful. I need to do this systematically! The biggest spike was pretty close to the beginning of a run (first few minutes) so you have helped explain that.

laura_ac3

I did a dyi test following clearliers instructions and it gave me a figure I worked off for the first few weeks. But when I did a park run and the raheny 5 I came out with higher - 203 - which came right at the end when I was pushing myself after it built up through the race. Not an expert by any means but don't think you should be getting the max near the start, random spike?

Doing a park run would probably be the best place to start.

annapr

Met up with Bungy Girl for hill sprints in the hills of Fairview Park this morning. She led the way and we did 6 x 8 secs, with recovery in between.

I found this great -- watching BG from behind (of course!) really helped me see what is meant by form for these. She had the course mapped out by trees and I ended up a tree or two back from her each time, but I was consistent. Also understand better now what these are about -- less about speed and incline than about form and anaerobic conditioning (thanks for the coaching, BG!).

Felt really invigorated after this session. Might even be starting to shake the cold.

Warmup & Cooldown: about 3km easy.

Bungy Girl

annapr wrote: »

Met up with Bungy Girl for hill sprints in the hills of Fairview Park this morning. She led the way and we did 6 x 8 secs, with recovery in between.

I found this great -- watching BG from behind (of course!) really helped me see what is meant by form for these. She had the course mapped out by trees and I ended up a tree or two back from her each time, but I was consistent. Also understand better now what these are about -- less about speed and incline than about form and anaerobic conditioning (thanks for the coaching, BG!).

Felt really invigorated after this session. Might even be starting to shake the cold.

Warmup & Cooldown: about 3km easy.

Great to meet you this morning annapr. So much nicer to be able to chat during the recoveries rather than hanging around by myself like a loon :rolleyes: I still have no idea if I'm doing these right but I feel like the form is improving. Bring on the buns of steel

FBOT01

annapr wrote: »

Met up with Bungy Girl for hill sprints in the hills of Fairview Park this morning. She led the way and we did 6 x 8 secs, with recovery in between.

I found this great -- watching BG from behind (of course!) really helped me see what is meant by form for these. She had the course mapped out by trees and I ended up a tree or two back from her each time, but I was consistent. Also understand better now what these are about -- less about speed and incline than about form and anaerobic conditioning (thanks for the coaching, BG!).

Felt really invigorated after this session. Might even be starting to shake the cold.

Warmup & Cooldown: about 3km easy.

Is this something that you and Murph have talked about or will this be all new to him:P

Dubgal72

FBOT01 wrote: »

Is this something that you and Murph have talked about or will this be all new to him:P

Oh dear...so tempted to 'thank' this post but really can't be encouraging this sort of behaviour

Bungy Girl

Dubgal72 wrote: »

Oh dear...so tempted to 'thank' this post but really can't be encouraging this sort of behaviour

I'm staying out of it anyway

Murph_D

Me too

annapr

FBOT01 wrote: »

Is this something that you and Murph have talked about or will this be all new to him:P

:pac::pac: it was BG who mentioned buns of steel, not me!!!

Bungy Girl

annapr wrote: »

:pac::pac: it was BG who mentioned buns of steel, not me!!!

It's true. This is all my fault.

Dubgal72

I vote that Murph gets to lead the trail run on Sunday

Murph_D

Not much to look at there, I'm afraid.

annapr

Saturday, 28th Feb

St. Anne's Parkrun -- 5k, 2k warmup around the park

Enjoyable park run this morning before the weather deteriorated... completed fairly comfortably in 26:30, so I'll take that as my tempo run for the week (only second in my age category this week -- the number 1 oul' wan was only 5 seconds ahead, if only I had known, it could have been a zimmer frame battle to the finish!!!). In the rush out of the house to deposit kids with the sis-in-law, I abandoned the HR monitor, so that will have to wait for another week.

Caught up with Ferris, who is coming back to form and FBOT who was looking very tough with his bruising and was very quiet as always

Mrs. FBOT was doing all the work, going for that volunteer t-shirt

Park run is always a great start to the day. Especially when followed by goodies from the market.

annapr

Sunday, March 1: Djouce trail run, 5 miles

I've done plenty of hiking and occasionally would see runners in the hills and think how mad they were... now I know why they do it. With Bungy Girl as navigator, the d3 crew got there in plenty of time and huddled in the car in the rain, wondering how we would spot Dubgal and the others without getting out of the car. No bother, we headed off right on time, after greeting Mr. Dubgal and the enthusiastic kids, well wrapped up in their snowsuits (I want one of those) and finding Adrian and Inigo.

As the slowest member of the group, I was afraid I might be too slow and/or find it very tough... but thankfully all the gazelles took it every easy today. It's a really lovely trail, winding around through trees and giving us a misty view of the waterfall at one point. I only flagged when an impromptu hill sprint broke out about 4 miles in on a bloody steep hill, but when aquinn had to stop to tie her laces, I was happy enough to stop in support:)

We got back to the car park soaked through and freezing but delighted with ourselves. There were lots of mountain runners around who were amazed at the amount of cake in the back of the car... we offered them all some but they looked dubious, not surprising, but their loss.

Felt great after this... I love being in the mountains. Great to meet Dubgal and Inigo and to see everyone. Looking forward to more outings.

annapr

WTD: 33.06 km/20:54 Miles
February: 113.5km/70.53 miles

Happy to have two consistent weeks under the belt, with a good bit of variety and a hill or two!

Dubgal72

Delighted you're hooked and I see you have taken the agreed consensual view on distance covered
Ps Mr Dubgal.... it! Might even wake him to show him?!

Mrs Mc

annapr wrote: »

Sunday, March 1: Djouce trail run, 5 miles

I've done plenty of hiking and occasionally would see runners in the hills and think how mad they were... now I know why they do it. With Bungy Girl as navigator, the d3 crew got there in plenty of time and huddled in the car in the rain, wondering how we would spot Dubgal and the others without getting out of the car. No bother, we headed off right on time, after greeting Mr. Dubgal and the enthusiastic kids, well wrapped up in their snowsuits (I want one of those) and finding Adrian and Inigo.

As the slowest member of the group, I was afraid I might be too slow and/or find it very tough... but thankfully all the gazelles took it every easy today. It's a really lovely trail, winding around through trees and giving us a misty view of the waterfall at one point. I only flagged when an impromptu hill sprint broke out about 4 miles in on a bloody steep hill, but when aquinn had to stop to tie her laces, I was happy enough to stop in support:)

We got back to the car park soaked through and freezing but delighted with ourselves. There were lots of mountain runners around who were amazed at the amount of cake in the back of the car... we offered them all some but they looked dubious, not surprising, but their loss.

Felt great after this... I love being in the mountains. Great to meet Dubgal and Inigo and to see everyone. Looking forward to more outings.

Fair play Anna it was a horrible day out there today on the seafront .... Can't imagine what it was like up the mountains brrrrrrrr !!!! Was so sorry I left my long run to today never felt so cold !!!

yaboya1

Mrs Mc wrote: »

Fair play Anna it was a horrible day out there today on the seafront .... Can't imagine what it was like up the mountains brrrrrrrr !!!! Was so sorry I left my long run to today never felt so cold !!!

You seemed pretty happy when I saw you

annapr

yaboya1 wrote: »

You seemed pretty happy when I saw you

Seeing you must have cheered her up, P!

I think we missed the worst of the weather to be honest, when we left d3 the sun was sort of shining and when we got home it looked like there had been a freezing downpour in between, roads flooded, etc. You'll have to come to the mountains next time, Mrs Mc!

Mrs Mc

yaboya1 wrote: »

You seemed pretty happy when I saw you

Think my face was frozen in a smile since killbarrack with the cold !!! Or maybe it was cause I was nearly home !!

Mrs Mc

annapr wrote: »

Seeing you must have cheered her up, P!

I think we missed the worst of the weather to be honest, when we left d3 the sun was sort of shining and when we got home it looked like there had been a freezing downpour in between, roads flooded, etc. You'll have to come to the mountains next time, Mrs Mc!

I'll bring the flask ! I'm always happy to see anyone when I'm out running its a good distraction !

Bungy Girl

Ashford !!

That's the place in Wicklow I was trying to remember yesterday. Devil's Glen trail is near there and it's a spectacular run.

annapr

5 x 3min @ 5k pace, with 3 min recovery
9.01km, avg pace 6:11/km; 5.6 mi; avg pace 9:57/mi

I had to bully myself to go out and to do this, after arriving home from town frozen. I even considered resorting to the gym, but then I read a few of the hardier training logs and decided to go for it - telling myself, you never regret going for a run.

Started with almost 3k warmup, which took me to the sea front. As a concession to my inner wimp, I did the first 4 5k laps with the wind at my back, and into the wind for the recoveries. The final 5k pace was towards home into a strong wind. The effort felt harder on this one, not surprisingly.

Loved this session, each 3 mins felt hard, I wonder how I ever did 25 mins at this pace?

Laps:
1 -- 4:53/km 7:51/mi
2-- 5:00/km 8:03/mi
3 -- 4:52/km 7:51/mi
4 -- 4:59/km 8:01/mi
5 -- 5:37/km 9:03/mi

Delighted with this, without looking at the watch during it, the pace was spot on.

Bungy Girl

annapr wrote: »

5 x 3min @ 5k pace, with 3 min recovery
9.01km, avg pace 6:11/km; 5.6 mi; avg pace 9:57/mi

I had to bully myself to go out and to do this, after arriving home from town frozen. I even considered resorting to the gym, but then I read a few of the hardier training logs and decided to go for it - telling myself, you never regret going for a run.

Started with almost 3k warmup, which took me to the sea front. As a concession to my inner wimp, I did the first 4 5k laps with the wind at my back, and into the wind for the recoveries. The final 5k pace was towards home into a strong wind. The effort felt harder on this one, not surprisingly.

Loved this session, each 3 mins felt hard, I wonder how I ever did 25 mins at this pace?

Laps:
1 -- 4:53/km 7:51/mi
2-- 5:00/km 8:03/mi
3 -- 4:52/km 7:51/mi
4 -- 4:59/km 8:01/mi
5 -- 5:37/km 9:03/mi

Delighted with this, without looking at the watch during it, the pace was spot on.

Great session, good on ya. I have to do the exact same one in the morning or it won't get done this week . Not feeling the love for it at present!

annapr

Bungy Girl wrote: »

Great session, good on ya. I have to do the exact same one in the morning or it won't get done this week . Not feeling the love for it at present!

I know how you feel but you won't regret doing it! I'm finding these sessions feel much more like a workout and I feel great afterwards (well, duh... I hear all the experienced people thinking!)

hillsiderunner

annapr wrote: »

5 x 3min @ 5k pace, with 3 min recovery

In fact that's almost exactly my own intervals session (mine still to do this afternoon!).

annapr

Weds, 4 March: 45 mins easy; 7k/4.38mi
2.4k/1.5mi walk cooldown.

Recovery run after yesterday's exertions, legs feeling a little stiff. What a different day today, beautiful afternoon, blue skies, couldn't even complain about the wind.

Did this one from DCU with Murph, thinking I should at least set foot inside the gym now that I've renewed membership. Headed up through Ballymun Glasnevin North to Poppintree park, did a lap and back down, looking forward to at least using the shower at the gym... only to realise I completely forgot to bring a towel! and as for deodorant... DOH!

Walked home after a slightly sweaty lunch

Mimojo

annapr wrote: »

5 x 3min @ 5k pace, with 3 min recovery
9.01km, avg pace 6:11/km; 5.6 mi; avg pace 9:57/mi

I had to bully myself to go out and to do this, after arriving home from town frozen. I even considered resorting to the gym, but then I read a few of the hardier training logs and decided to go for it - telling myself, you never regret going for a run.

Started with almost 3k warmup, which took me to the sea front. As a concession to my inner wimp, I did the first 4 5k laps with the wind at my back, and into the wind for the recoveries. The final 5k pace was towards home into a strong wind. The effort felt harder on this one, not surprisingly.

Loved this session, each 3 mins felt hard, I wonder how I ever did 25 mins at this pace?

Laps:
1 -- 4:53/km 7:51/mi
2-- 5:00/km 8:03/mi
3 -- 4:52/km 7:51/mi
4 -- 4:59/km 8:01/mi
5 -- 5:37/km 9:03/mi

Delighted with this, without looking at the watch during it, the pace was spot on.

Well done, super session! Just out of interest what pace are your recovery 3mins done at? Just wonder as want to try this sessions next week, I think I might have to slow down to a crawl!

annapr

Mimojo wrote: »

Well done, super session! Just out of interest what pace are your recovery 3mins done at? Just wonder as want to try this sessions next week, I think I might have to slow down to a crawl!

Hi M, I did slow down almost to a crawl... Just looked at pace and recoveries ranged from 11:26-12:55min/mile. That was into a strong wind but also on a couple of the laps I walked for the first 30 secs or so of recovery. For context, warmup was <10 min and warm down was <11.

My understanding is that it's ok for recovery to be really slow!

Mimojo

annapr wrote: »

Hi M, I did slow down almost to a crawl... Just looked at pace and recoveries ranged from 11:26-12:55min/mile. That was into a strong wind but also on a couple of the laps I walked for the first 30 secs or so of recovery. For context, warmup was <10 min and warm down was <11.

My understanding is that it's ok for recovery to be really slow!

Cheers for that Anna, just wanted to get an idea, that sounds good to me, and gives me a much better idea of how to do one of these sessions. Will report back last week on how it goes, and if towards the end crawling was my only option!!

Ososlo

annapr wrote: »

Hi M, I did slow down almost to a crawl... Just looked at pace and recoveries ranged from 11:26-12:55min/mile. That was into a strong wind but also on a couple of the laps I walked for the first 30 secs or so of recovery. For context, warmup was <10 min and warm down was <11.

My understanding is that it's ok for recovery to be really slow!

God yeah absolutely! I think as long as you can keep jogging no matter how slowly it's fine.

annapr

Thanks Ososlo, good to have confirmation.

Mimojo... Enjoy it. You'll feel great afterwards. If not during!

laura_ac3

annapr wrote: »

Hi M, I did slow down almost to a crawl... Just looked at pace and recoveries ranged from 11:26-12:55min/mile. That was into a strong wind but also on a couple of the laps I walked for the first 30 secs or so of recovery. For context, warmup was <10 min and warm down was <11.

My understanding is that it's ok for recovery to be really slow!

Similar to me. My recoveries for these sessions are super slow as well. Usually around 11.xx pace. Similar paced warm up and cool downs.