FTP 2015

Alek

fast recreational pace

Strava shows approx. 861.5. Am I that bad? I almost puked at the top :pac:

[edit]

On that segment #1 has vam of 1200, Ryan Sherlock 1000 and as far as I know this was his training route.

1600 is hard to imagine :eek:


[edit 2]

This VAM concept is kinda strange. Shows my best VAM on stocking lane as 1050, which seems impossible compared to the above....

uphillonly

Alek wrote: »

Does it make any sense to estimate FTP without a power meter, just from the effort?

In example, I have climbed Cruagh Road to Pine Forest peak today, 5.6km@5% avg gradient, in 19:51. No wind. My weight is 83 + 1kg clothes + 15kg bike (yes! studded MTB tyres and all) = 99kg. It was near-full-out effort for me.

Bicycle power calculator shows 319W, Strava 311W. This translates roughly to 3.7W/kg.

So, my FTP would be ~295W, right?

Is it a believable value?

I wouldn't pay much attention to Strava estimates w/o a power metre. The moment you have any wind, tail or head, it's even more inaccurate.

Three different rides on a Cruagh section:
6m 6s - 286w (power metre)
6m 10s - 249w (Strava estimate)
6m 13s - 299w (power metre)

FWIW, Strava normally underestimates for me.

However your average HR for the 20 minutes is a real figure and of use as your HR FTP. Since I've had a power metre I don't look at HR much during a ride but my average HR for 20 min FTP tests has consistently been around 90-91% of my max. I hold the same HR for a 1hr climb up Alpe d'Huez.

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

no1murray wrote: »

It all depends what part of the training cycle you are in. For me it all about building from the bottom starting with sweet spot and will usually end the block of training with 3×20 threshold in a 4 hour spin.
The way I look at it is like weightlifting. You find your max squat (ftp) for example. You don't go to every training session and lift your max, instead you lift a % of your max, concentrating on form and executing the lift properly. Building up from the bottom thus increasing you max lift. The power meter is perfect for measuring the weight you are lifting and tracking progress.

Or do the opposite of that and get greater gains from HIIT with a pol approach.

http://www.tradewindsports.net/training/polarized-training-rip-threshold-training/

Alek

However your average HR for the 20 minutes is a real figure and of use as your HR FTP. Since I've had a power metre I don't look at HR much during a ride but my average HR for 20 min FTP tests has consistently been around 90-91% of my max. I hold the same HR for a 1hr climb up Alpe d'Huez.

It was 173, which makes sense, as my max is approx. 185 (93%)

Also, I was able to hold 171bpm for 1 hour once (CX race).

cheerspal

After doing my first trainerroad session I have a FTP of 249 and LTHR is 162.

Happy enough with that as a starter. Will go from here and start some of the training plans.

Following a full 30 minutes of warm-up, a 20-minute time trial is used to assess Functional Threshold Power (FTP) & Lactate Threshold Heart Rate (LTHR).

This workout can also serve as a workout in its own right and will target muscular endurance and effective pacing over a somewhat extended duration.

Use any cadence that suits you, but if you're pedaling slower than 80rpm it's in your best interest to increase your cadence over the course of your training.

harringtonp

Arthurdaly wrote: »

What sort of adjustment would you guys make for a TT bike? I complete the FTP test on my roadbike and have done some threshold intervals on the TT bike down on the pads. I complete them at the target watts but they were very tough.

Since then I complete a session on road bike and it was toughish but manageable. Next session I will go back to the TT bike but probably drop the watts by 10/15.

20w less

Hmmzis

Eden Black Self-importance wrote: »

Or do the opposite of that and get greater gains from HIIT with a pol approach.

http://www.tradewindsports.net/training/polarized-training-rip-threshold-training/

Looks likes also Friel is in agreement with the POL approach. Though he suggests it for experienced (3+ years in the sport) athletes only.

http://www.joefrielsblog.com/2014/10/polarized-training-update.html

NeedMoreGears

Alek wrote: »

Does it make any sense to estimate FTP without a power meter, just from the effort?

In example, I have climbed Cruagh Road to Pine Forest peak today, 5.6km@5% avg gradient, in 19:51. No wind. My weight is 83 + 1kg clothes + 15kg bike (yes! studded MTB tyres and all) = 99kg. It was near-full-out effort for me.

Bicycle power calculator shows 319W, Strava 311W. This translates roughly to 3.7W/kg.

So, my FTP would be ~295W, right?

Is it a believable value?

5.6km at 5% is 280m. It took you 1191 seconds giving a vertical rate of 0.235m/s on average (VAM of 846m/hr) . At 99kg the climb takes 99x 9.81 x 0.235 = 228W.

Average speed was 4.7m/s - Bike calculator and similar suggest around 45W rolling and 20W for air resistence giving you 295W. Whereas as the power for climbing is accurate (assuming corect times and elevations), the last two are subject to some variation.

Our crappy roads would be 45W rolling whereas a nice smooth continental road might be 30W. Air resistence is low as you were only doing 4.7m/s so it's not a big effect whether you were in the drops or hoods or small/tall etc.

no1murray

NeedMoreGears wrote: »

5.6km at 5% is 280m. It took you 1191 seconds giving a vertical rate of 0.235m/s on average (VAM of 846m/hr) . At 99kg the climb takes 99x 9.81 x 0.235 = 228W.

Average speed was 4.7m/s - Bike calculator and similar suggest around 45W rolling and 20W for air resistence giving you 295W. Whereas as the power for climbing is accurate (assuming corect times and elevations), the last two are subject to some variation.

Our crappy roads would be 45W rolling whereas a nice smooth continental road might be 30W. Air resistence is low as you were only doing 4.7m/s so it's not a big effect whether you were in the drops or hoods or small/tall etc.

Ya..... buy a power meter.

Hi Ho

harringtonp wrote: »

20w less

(on TT bike).
Does that depend on how much training is done in the TT position?
With that loss the aero gain would seem marginal?

Beasty

Hi Ho wrote: »

(on TT bike).
Does that depend on how much training is done in the TT position?
With that loss the aero gain would seem marginal?

Ryan Sherlock mentioned some time ago that he thought a loss of 25w (which is what I was showing) was pretty good

Playing around with the Bike Calculator I reckon the aero position gains well over 50w compared with being on the drops (and it would be a lot more for better cyclists)

lennymc

just on the TT bike thing - i did a segment at 43.1 kph on the road bike at 345 watts with PM, and on TT bike at 43.1 kph at 291 watts. I cant remember the weather, but I would guestimate that they would be fairly similar conditions, so it looks similar to beastys calculations.

My FTP is about 12.

Beasty

lennymc wrote: »

My FTP is about 12.

Are you getting FTP mixed up with "shoe size"?

godtabh

lennymc wrote: »

My FTP is about 12.

Apples or oranges?

Hi Ho

harringtonp wrote: »

20w less

Beasty wrote: »

Ryan Sherlock mentioned some time ago that he thought a loss of 25w (which is what I was showing) was pretty good

Playing around with the Bike Calculator I reckon the aero position gains well over 50w compared with being on the drops (and it would be a lot more for better cyclists)

But 25w for Ryan would be a much smaller proportion of top FTP compared to me.
So, without knowing much about, I'm wondering if the extent of the loss is related to time spent training in the position and proportionate across the range of ability.
Again, your 50w gain (speed equivalent rather than watts I presume) would be massive for me but not as significant to a fellow putting out 400w.
I'm sure there's probably clear answers.

Beasty

Hi Ho wrote: »

Again, your 50w gain (speed equivalent rather than watts I presume) would be massive for me but not as significant to a fellow putting out 400w.

Someone putting out 400w on the drops could get to a similar speed at 320w or so on the aerobars - the equivalent "power" gain by being aero is higher for stronger cyclists

So, starting at 300w on the drops you can do a similar speed at just over 240w on the aerobars

Lusk_Doyle

This is a very interesting thread. I'm gonna get me tested for my FTP too, whatever that means.

No condition now so it would be interesting the difference between now and in several months time.

How much are the tests in Trinners and DCU?

Hi Ho

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

This is a very interesting thread. I'm gonna get me tested for my FTP too, whatever that means.

No condition now so it would be interesting the difference between now and in several months time.

How much are the tests in Trinners and DCU?

Think a little more about if before jumping into it. A keg datum is your Vo2Max, and then your FTP relative to your VO2Max (in other words, your FTP now in relation to your trainable potential.

Lusk_Doyle

Hi Ho wrote: »

Think a little more about if before jumping into it. A keg datum is your Vo2Max, and then your FTP relative to your VO2Max (in other words, your FTP now in relation to your trainable potential.

Ok. That makes no difference to me and I don't know why. I've always been a ride by feel type.

Chips Lovell

I think the difference is down to the rider and you're probably only going to get an idea by testing on both.

harringtonp

Hi Ho wrote: »

(on TT bike).
Does that depend on how much training is done in the TT position?
With that loss the aero gain would seem marginal?

I'd imagine it does, but much TT training does your average rider actually do.

Aero gain is still substantial IMO

Lusk_Doyle

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

I think the difference is down to the rider and you're probably only going to get an idea by testing on both.

You had me at "hello".

ryan_sherlock

I ended up doing an FTP test the other day (closer to 30 min so not the usual .95 multiplier). I don't tend to do them often, I know more where I'm at by how I feel. I am happy with where I'm at - I won't be focused on road this year - MTB Marathon racing so the type of efforts I need to make in a race are different (more threshold based than surgy) url]https://www.strava.com/activities/253489380[/url

On the TT, I lose a *lot* more than 25W comparing TT position (pretty aggressive) versus a climb/drag. cycling pro tips had some stuff about the difference a while back (different fibre types etc)