pressure and gender stereotypes

Robsweezie

growing up, or even now, do you feel pressure to conform to the ideal image of what a man or a 'lad' should be? strong emotionally, physically,confident, interest in sport, drinking with the lads, banter etc. nowadays do you think it's harder for men who are quiet, bookish, sensitive or introverted to thrive in society, particularly in Ireland? as a culture are we accepting of all types of men?

corkgsxr

When I finished school I stopped giving a Flying what people thought of me. Happy out.

DavidRamsay99

Both types of men you describe have always thrived. Many men have a mix of both sides. The limits anyone has is self-belief.

ancapailldorcha

Robsweezie wrote: »

growing up, or even now, do you feel pressure to conform to the ideal image of what a man or a 'lad' should be? strong emotionally, physically,confident, interest in sport, drinking with the lads, banter etc. nowadays do you think it's harder for men who are quiet, bookish, sensitive or introverted to thrive in society, particularly in Ireland? as a culture are we accepting of all types of men?

Hmm....

I'm an introvert. Either that or my drive to socialise has been pummelled to nearly nothing by all the moving about I've had to do for work.

I don't think I do feel to pressurised save for one area, relationships. Myself and a few friends moved over to the UK in the space of 2 years. One thing we noticed was that people seem to settle down a bit younger over here. If you were on the wrong side of 25 and without a partner, a mortagage and a kiddie on the way then some people considered that a bit odd. I was the one of about 4 people in a building of 50 who were single and it came up a fair bit in conversation. There is pressure there for both genders in fairness.

I do think that confidence is a damn good thing to have plenty of. There's almost no downside to being confident until you become cocky. It's the same with being an extrovert. If you're able to chew the fat with anyone, that's a big plus especially with the current emphasis on "networking" (hate that word). If you lack confidence, you're going to struggle and I speak from experience.

North of 32

I find gender stereotypes to be quite interesting, particularly now in my early twenties as I'm reaching a new peak in terms of growing as a person.

I'm often mistaken as a gay man, by men and women. I have been approached by men on nights out and had women ask me if I'm gay. This does not offend me, but I do find it interesting. I am strictly heterosexual and not in the slightest bit 'camp' (which I'm sorry to say is a stereotype attached to gay men) so I'm curious as to what it is in my external expression that leads people to think I'm gay. What stereotypical characteristics or traits do I apparently possess that mark me out as gay to others?

I wouldn't describe myself as one of the lads. I split my time evenly between male and female friends who are equally close to me. Lately I've become the one who interrupts stories that get too disrespectful toward women and often defend the need for equality campaigns. I read and write poetry. On the other hand though, I can be utterly lustful when checking out women's arses, I drink crap beer and I shout loudly at football matches.

Stereotypes and traditional masculine traits are interesting to a degree but ultimately, they mean nothing to me. If you're comfortable with who you are and aiming to be happy, other people will be comfortable with you. That's how I look at it.

DavidRamsay99

Well North of 32 apparently men who are homosexual are more likely to have a counterclockwise whorl in the hair and to use their left hand than strait men.

Wibbs

North of 32 wrote: »

If you're comfortable with who you are and aiming to be happy, other people will be comfortable with you. That's how I look at it.

Ah No32 would you ever feck right off with your sensible take on life. And your first post here too? On that score, welcome, pull up a pew and dive in.

H3llR4iser

This is an extremely funny one for me. To be entirely honest, I never fully "felt the pressure", even 'though I am actually quite the introvert - in a very peculiar way; To make it really clear, I am an Jungian INTJ personality - more or less the worst SOBs that can be found around

Let's say I always liked to do as I please, more or less scoffing at all of the "you should do X and Y" nonsense. Which, to be frank, is a double edged sword - most people can't really understand the concept of not giving a single fcuk, and take you as the "contrariant" kind of guy - while I am simply voicing my genuine thoughts

As a result, in the past I kinda kept to myself; However in the last few years I've unintentionally and completely naturally changed that - being more and more extrovert, sometimes in surprising ways. If you go read the INTJ profile, it mentions that some acquire the skill to kinda look like normal people with time. Guess it's happening to me

It's probably the cultural context - I find Irish people, and most of the foreigners living here, to be more relaxed, open to irony and appreciative of sheer frankness, compared to where I come from. Also, I guess that enormous confidence booster called "age" plays an important part

Ps. I met an INTJ woman once. We mutually agreed it was the most stressful conversation either of us ever had

DavidRamsay99

A lot has to be said for stoicism.

DoYouEvenLift

No, societal pressure is an excuse that weak and overly self conscious people use because they don't have the personal strength to be confident in themselves, their choices and lifestyle. If someone wants to do something but is sceptical because of influence from society/peers/media then that's their problem to deal with and not make excuses for.

If you look at the most successful people throughout the years you'll probably find a lot of them went against the grain.

newport2

North of 32 wrote: »

I find gender stereotypes to be quite interesting, particularly now in my early twenties as I'm reaching a new peak in terms of growing as a person.

I'm often mistaken as a gay man, by men and women. I have been approached by men on nights out and had women ask me if I'm gay. This does not offend me, but I do find it interesting. I am strictly heterosexual and not in the slightest bit 'camp' (which I'm sorry to say is a stereotype attached to gay men) so I'm curious as to what it is in my external expression that leads people to think I'm gay. What stereotypical characteristics or traits do I apparently possess that mark me out as gay to others?

I wouldn't describe myself as one of the lads. I split my time evenly between male and female friends who are equally close to me. Lately I've become the one who interrupts stories that get too disrespectful toward women and often defend the need for equality campaigns. I read and write poetry. On the other hand though, I can be utterly lustful when checking out women's arses, I drink crap beer and I shout loudly at football matches.

Replace poetry with paining and you've just summed me up.....

Happens to me re people thinking I'm gay. Even the people I know who are gay cannot say why it is. An ex-girlfriend of mine came up to me on the night I met her and asked me if I was, so as not to be wasting her time. (She wasn't....) It's not the way I talk, because people have come up to me before hearing me, it's not the way I walk because I've often been sitting down, clothes-wise I'd be relatively conservative, so not that either. The only thing that really leaves is body-language/gestures/expressions I guess. A lot of people don't see it at all. Doesn't bother me at all, but I'd love to know what it is.

BrianD3

I am late 30s and have a "frugal bachelor" type lifestyle. My job is pretty low level and mundane however I have no debt and have over 50 times my current annual spending in the bank. I think I am judged negatively by others for being a single man at my age, for my frugality and for not having a high level job. So I do feel some pressure/insecurity related to that.

The OP didn't mention pressure to have money, be a provider and have an "impressive" job - I think that those are much more significant for many men than the pressures that were listed.

newport2

BrianD3 wrote: »

I am late 30s and have a "frugal bachelor" type lifestyle. My job is pretty low level and mundane however I have no debt and have over 50 times my current annual spending in the bank. I think I am judged negatively by others for being a single man at my age, for my frugality and for not having a high level job. So I do feel some pressure/insecurity related to that.

Very true. Many times I've heard women I know and like discussing men and if a guy is single and approaching 40 the question "So what's wrong with him?" is raised.

H3llR4iser

newport2 wrote: »

Very true. Many times I've heard women I know and like discussing men and if a guy is single and approaching 40 the question "So what's wrong with him?" is raised.

This happens about women as well - a single woman well into her 30s is often assumed to have some kind of undesirable characteristics...often being called the "W" word for no reason at all :mad:

py2006

There have been a couple times in my life where I was asked if I was gay. I am not camp but for some people because I am quite laid back and quiet and not really the alpha male sort I might be gay. Or my lack of interest in being married etc. Interestingly, its mainly women that make that assumption. I just laugh it off.

What bothers me when it comes to the male stereotype is that some mens inability or unwillingness to discuss their feelings (leading to mental health problems and suicide) is dismissed as 'stupid male macho bull****'. This infuriated it me during a discussion one day with a female friend. I am hardly a macho guy but like a lot of guys talking candidly about feelings/troubles etc does not come easy at all.

Robsweezie

BrianD3 wrote:

The OP didn't mention pressure to have money, be a provider and have an "impressive" job - I think that those are much more significant for many men than the pressures that were listed.

definitely, don't know how I managed to overlook that. so much to the extent they are seen as a failure if they don't. also the negative stereotype of living with parents at a mature age and being a "mammys boy"

North of 32

BrianD3 wrote: »

The OP didn't mention pressure to have money, be a provider and have an "impressive" job - I think that those are much more significant for many men than the pressures that were listed.

I overheard a group of women discussing one of their partners one day. Apparently he had just proposed and the women proceeded to dissect his life: "he's got a good, well-paid and stable job with promotion prospects, his extended family are friendly and he has a nice house." For someone my age it was a was rude awakening to hear such things so openly discussed in public, as I sat there thinking to myself 'does he ever make you laugh, challenge you to try new things and support you?'. No, instead they just poured over the logistics of being married to such a man. Even listening to my own father speak, there definitely is a societal expectation on some level for men to adhere to a certain role and reach a certain level in their profession. I feel like this is one pressure that might affect me in years to come.

py2006 wrote: »

What bothers me when it comes to the male stereotype is that some mens inability or unwillingness to discuss their feelings (leading to mental health problems and suicide) is dismissed as 'stupid male macho bull****'. This infuriated it me during a discussion one day with a female friend. I am hardly a macho guy but like a lot of guys talking candidly about feelings/troubles etc does not come easy at all.

It's clear that men need to communicate more on the subject of mental health. I agree with you though - for whatever reason, I would guess that most men struggle to discuss their feelings and mental state. The growing campaigns call for us to talk more but the culture does not facilitate talking. Rightly or wrongly, men communicate differently to the candor of women. Provisions should be made for different types of communication, rather than just shouting at men to ''talk more!'' and simply expecting them to suddenly have the ability to be open.

boobar

Robsweezie wrote: »

growing up, or even now, do you feel pressure to conform to the ideal image of what a man or a 'lad' should be? strong emotionally, physically,confident, interest in sport, drinking with the lads, banter etc. nowadays do you think it's harder for men who are quiet, bookish, sensitive or introverted to thrive in society, particularly in Ireland? as a culture are we accepting of all types of men?

I never felt under pressure. I was into different things growing up and had a wide range of friends some sporty, some nerdy. I was and am what many would call nerdy into gadgets, reading, movies....used to play some sports but not into watching sports.

I have pals still that are sports mad and nerdy pals as well. To be honest I think most people accept me for who I am. I think this pressure comes from within, I think most people couldn't give a toss about this ideal image. Sometimes my wife would say, who did you go for a beer with, I'd tell her I was out with my pal down the roaf and she has said I always wonder what ye talk about, from the outside ye appear to have nothing in common, yet we have a great night chatting about all sorts of auld guff.

Manach

I'd be more traditional, less inclined to define myself in terms of the cult of the individual but more being part of the wider community as defined by nation / Church / beliefs. However some stereotypes are attractive as the speak to an older, purer model template to base oneself on as, to re-use Plato's analogy, they offer a way to move from the shadowlands to reality.