Root cause of the tackle issue in Gaelic Football

davegrohl48

I believe the root cause of the tackle (or non-tackle) issue in Gaelic Football is referees not applying the steps rule for players being tackled or who deliberately run towards contact.
Watched several games at the weekend and read Sligo manager Niall Carews comments that there is "No tackle in Gaelic football".
http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=231222
There doesn't even need to be a rule change to solve the problem of trying to disposess the player in posession.
Whenever tackling in Gaelic Football gets debated there are those who say a skilled defender will attempt to knock the ball free. However forwards are now switching the ball to the opposite side of their body, using their near hand to shove off the defender and pushing off away from the defender. The hand off by the near hand has the effect of unbalancing the defender away from the ball and giving a little pushoff to help the attacker step away from contact. After they have successfully moved out of contact with the defender they will finally take a solo ... it is simply not possible within 4 steps to carry this out. The only possible way to do it within 4 is if you have the defender right beside you, immediately get away from contact and get your solo or pass in quickly.
Players are so used to it now the defenders don't even complain about number of steps. You only see steps being called when players are out in the clear and open and might change direction twice
I believe referees getting strict on this would improve the game.
- More turnovers and hence more unpredictability
- The art of defending being rewarded
- It would reduce the frequency of contact seeing as players would have to either avoid being tackled or pass the ball on
The referees would also be able to give frees for over aggressive tackling. With the current situation they seem to allow defender and forward fight it out. You don't even really see so much shadowing and attempts at knocking the ball loose.
Anyways interested what people think. Really it doesn't even need a rule change, there is nothing in the rule book about allowing a tackled player take extra steps. Defenders need the ball to be open due to the opposition player soloing/passing or shooting!! Similar when they want to protect against a solo run, they're relying on the 4 step rule to allow them exert a legitimate level of contact to stand they're ground and stop the forward in his tracks.

Boom__Boom

Seems like Carew doesn't have a clue what he's talking about by saying there is no defined tackle given the tackle was re-defined last year when the black card was brought in.

The Tackle
The Tackle is re-defined as:

“The Tackle is a skill by which a player may dispossess an opponent or frustrate his objective within the Rules of Fair Play. The tackle is aimed at the ball, not the player. The tackler may use his body to confront the opponent but deliberate bodily contact (such as punching, slapping, arm holding, pushing, tripping, jersey pulling or a full frontal charge) is forbidden. The only deliberate physical contact can be a Fair Charge i.e. Shoulder-to-shoulder with at least one foot on the ground. More than one player can tackle the player in possession.”

There might be an issue with how refs interpret this rule but that's a horse of a different colour.

Every player should know the definition by heart - there's no way you are going to tackle correctly, if you don't even know what a tackle is.

Would be interesting to know how many of the current Sligo players under Carew's charge would be able to do so.

Realt Dearg Sec

Boom__Boom wrote: »

Seems like Carew doesn't have a clue what he's talking about by saying there is no defined tackle given the tackle was re-defined last year when the black card was brought in.



There might be an issue with how refs interpret this rule but that's a horse of a different colour.

Every player should know the definition by heart - there's no way you are going to tackle correctly, if you don't even know what a tackle is.

Would be interesting to know how many of the current Sligo players under Carew's charge would be able to do so.

Sorry but that definition seems to be a description of what it isn't. Which is no definition at all.

davegrohl48

Boom__Boom wrote: »

Seems like Carew doesn't have a clue what he's talking about by saying there is no defined tackle given the tackle was re-defined last year when the black card was brought in.



There might be an issue with how refs interpret this rule but that's a horse of a different colour.

Every player should know the definition by heart - there's no way you are going to tackle correctly, if you don't even know what a tackle is.

Would be interesting to know how many of the current Sligo players under Carew's charge would be able to do so.

Under that ruling how do you tackle a fast moving player without making contact other than shoulder to shoulder. If the ball is held on the opposite side of the body you have no physical way of aiming a tackle at the ball.

HighKing33

I would like to see the number of steps permitted reduced to three. Players would be forced to play the ball more often meaning more opportunities for clean tackling and also bringing in a deterrant to players who like to run the ball into coverage and buy a foul.

By way of compensation I would permit players to hop the ball in succession as many times as they desire, allowing the forwards more options on the ball but crucially, it should be impossible to simply run past a defender without playing the ball at least once.

Dirty Dingus McGee

If coaches actually bothered to coach the tackle properly and the referees were better and actually could spot proper tackling then there would be no issue.

It is unbelievable that so many people involved high up in GAA don't actually know how to coach the tackle when it is really quite simple, shadow the player side to side and strike the ball with an open hand.

Every year Kieran McGeeney (who obviously wants to bring in an awful Rugby/ Aussie Rules style tackle that would destroy the game) whinges about there not being a tackle aswell.

The Sligo county board should get rid of Carew straight away for being so incompetent that he doesn't even have a basic understanding of the game.

Personally I think a rule change that bans group tackling and only one player can challenge a player in possession would be a good thing for the game and open it up.

klairondavis

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

If I was Waterford county board I'd get rid of Carew straight away for being so incompetent that he doesn't even have a basic understanding of the game.

Personally I think a rule change that bans group tackling and only one player can challenge a player in possession would be a good thing for the game and open it up.

He's the Sligo manager now.

Fully agree on the second point. If there are more than two players surrounding an opponent, they simply cannot be all legally tackling the ball. A lot of referees are very inconsistent when these rucks develop and it is a huge source of frustration for everyone; players, managers, supporters.

wackokid

Very simple solution to all this rubbish we watching now...............FOOT BALL
Catch it, KICK it and NO hand passing.
Kick it to a team mate, Kick it over the bar or under the bar, Kick it, Kick it, Kick it.

davegrohl48

Still does not solve case of how to tackle a player carrying ball on opposite side of body. Physically impossible. Two players surrounding a player can be legally tackling by aiming tackles at the ball. I agree more than two there has to be one defender who can't possibly be aiming tackle at the ball. Reducing to three steps could be key. There are too many 3 step evasive moves after already having used up some steps.

Prop Joe

This is the tackle - A body collision,Then strike the ball out of the grasp of the player..Simples

davegrohl48

Prop Joe wrote: »

This is the tackle - A body collision,Then strike the ball out of the grasp of the player..Simples

In the very common scenario of having someone running straight at you like Kevin McManamon (a specialist at taking ball into and out of contact) how do you body collide legally? The only physical contact allowed is shoulder to shoulder. If someone like McManamon is not allowed take too many steps he will be correctly called for over carrying and a free out. Hence the defender can shadow and force the over carry. If the player solos/passes/shoots there is a proper opportunity to knock the ball away.

Dirty Dingus McGee

wackokid wrote: »

Very simple solution to all this rubbish we watching now...............FOOT BALL
Catch it, KICK it and NO hand passing.
Kick it to a team mate, Kick it over the bar or under the bar, Kick it, Kick it, Kick it.

That would be awful and result in a load of aimless hoofing of the ball.

Eventually people would get bored of it.There needs to be a balance between long and short passing.

davegrohl48

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

That would be awful and result in a load of aimless hoofing of the ball.

Eventually people would get bored of it.There needs to be a balance between long and short passing.

Agree with you purely kicking would result in a lot of aimless kicking.
Would love to see how a game would look like if:
- Over aggressive tackling, illegal body collisions were penalised
- Steps was penalised

Forwards would have to learn to avoid contact.
Defenders would have to learn to shadow and knock the ball away. In my view would be a really free flowing game.
Defenders who still remain true to current style of defending would quickly pickup tick/yellow/red card.
Forwards who remain true to current style of going into contact would be constantly pinged for steps.

wackokid

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

That would be awful and result in a load of aimless hoofing of the ball.

Eventually people would get bored of it.There needs to be a balance between long and short passing.

I said 'Kick it to a team mate', not aimless hoofing as of yore.
Surely a modern player can aim a kick properly?

keeponhurling

our coach used to tell us to count the steps, after four steps the forward has to do something with it. So be ready to nip in at that point.
Especially if he had just taken a bounce.

Such nonsense, the forward has to take at least 8 steps before there's any hope of a free given.
And if they're being pressured they tend to be given even more steps !

Completely agree with the OP

davegrohl48

keeponhurling wrote: »

our coach used to tell us to count the steps, after four steps the forward has to do something with it. So be ready to nip in at that point.
Especially if he had just taken a bounce.

Such nonsense, the forward has to take at least 8 steps before there's any hope of a free given.
And if they're being pressured they tend to be given even more steps !

Completely agree with the OP

Had a young modern coach who showed us that in terms of tackling to wait until theyve a few steps taken. But yer right they simply are allowed wrastle yer tackling away while pumpin the legs (each one being a step). Right I reckon contact via club secretary to referees body to highlight the specific problem. It would solve so many issues without a rule change that it's insane.

nice_guy80

The best team I've ever seen to execute proper tackles on the ball were the 2006 Roscommon minors. They tormented teams all year and Fergal O'Donnell and co must have spent every training session honing the skill

Dirty Dingus McGee

wackokid wrote: »

I said 'Kick it to a team mate', not aimless hoofing as of yore.
Surely a modern player can aim a kick properly?

Not if its their only option.The hand pass is needed to put players in space so that a proper kick pass can be delivered if the only option was kicking the ball you would have loads of aimless panicked kicks and it would be extremely easy to defend against as well.

corny

The bit that bothers me is referees allow a scrum of multiple players far more leeway than they would a single player one on one. If the attacker is on the ground its even worse. The way Armagh, Tyrone and Donegal have set up defensively is the logical extension if you want to win the ball back.

Also, an attacker can get away with a straight fend but a slight push from the defender will probably result in a free.

Inconsistency is rife.

davegrohl48

Had a look back at the Mayo - Kerry game. There were several scores/scoring attempts that were involving more than 6 or 7 steps. So we're not even dealing with 5 steps.
- First score Barry John Keane jinks around defender without using a solo (min 6 or 7 steps)
- Alan Freeman goal. Minimum 10 steps.
- Stephen OBrien handpass point attempt (min 6 steps)
However you don't want to simply make the game too defensive as on rewatching the game pulling for those incidents would have removed alot of scores from the game.
There are two major elements that can also be corrected and they are in the rule book.
- Deliberately running towards contact with another player is barging doesn't necessarily have to involve having yer head down which is usually when refs flag it.
- Deliberate physical contact not involving a tackle aimed at the ball is a foul
So if you allow defenders to stand their ground arms out (forward can't just run at the extended arm, he can contact as sometimes contact unavoidable but the forward must back off.)
- Similar the defender can stand ground and aim tackles at the ball.
It would be a lot more similar to the tackling/contact allowed in basketball. Not that we want to create a version of basketball, but it would be interesting to see defenders rewarded for protecting space and forwards rewarded for being able to dummy around defenders.
If the forward manages to dummy around the defender it would be an automatic free if the defender in anyway initiates contact that is not an attempt to make a tackle on the ball.
- Essentially forwards would not have free licence to run straight at defenders or do any of those handoffs.
- Defenders would not have free licence to initiate deliberate body collisions and strong deliberate contact that is not a tackle aimed at the ball.