Isis burn pilot alive..

Egginacup

evo2000 wrote: »

I love how theres people here saying military action is stupid all the while offering no other solutions, the reason for this is because there are no other solutions, you cannot reason with ISIS its sole purpose for existence is to inflict pain/brutal deaths on anything that differs from its ideology, the more freedom you give it the stronger it gets, the more you play the game of cat and mouse politics with it the stronger it gets,

its hilarious talking about morals when discussing what action should be taken against them all the while ISIS is laughing at morals and doing the complete opposite, its akin to trying to reason with someone that is currently punching you in the face!

At the very least we could kill enough of them so they can be contained or managed!

Christ...this is priceless.
It's either military obliteration which will kill maim and displace millions more innocent civilians or it's reasoning with a few killers. And that the subzero IQ binary argument in your fractional dimension worldview.
Let's start with your abyssmal face punching analogy. Negotiations might indeed be futile but if you mates are holding down his kid and raping it then the cause of the punching might need to be revisited and adressed. Does that compute? Or do you kill the puncher and then wring your hands when the uncle and brothers are next to start attacking you?

Timberrrrrrrr

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Bad things happening in other places is no excuse for the world to sit on it's hands.

I agree

**** happens

Yet no one on here is calling for bombing of any of those countries.


Give it a week and the keyboard warriors will have moved onto the next thing is popular to be outraged about.

evo2000

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Why would i go talk to them, i think every one of them should be killed. You keep saying there will be civilian casualties in this war, do the Japanese journos not count as civilian casualties?

Ok so you want em all dead, but yet in the very next few posts you keep comparing isis to others in to what i can only guess is to justify there actions in some way? im confused as to which side of the fence you re on to be honest lol

Timberrrrrrrr

Sociopath2 wrote: »

Where did I say western troops? They are the best equipped to deal with it but there are some ME states that might be capable, but they need to commit to a decisive victory not merely rolling them back from their or their friends borders.

Now we are starting to agree.

Holsten

That video is shocking beyond belief, one of the worst ways to die.

Burning him alive while caged up absolutely insane.

Bombing them won't do anything, they tried that 10 years ago and now we have ISIS.

Timberrrrrrrr

evo2000 wrote: »

Ok so you want em all dead, but yet in the very next few posts you keep comparing isis to others in abit to what i can only guess is to justify there actions in some way? im confused as to which side of the fence you re on to be honest lol

Sigh


Do i agree that ISIS need to be dealt with? YES

Should dealing with ISIS include killing thousands of innocent people? NO


See the side of the fence now?

evo2000

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Sigh


Do i agree that ISIS need to be dealt with? YES

Should dealing with ISIS include killing thousands of innocent people? NO


See the side of the fence now?

Why are you arguing against me, ive been saying that too?

Why are you comparing nato too them tho?

Tugboats

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

to stop the killing of a few innocent civilians.

Hey? Isis have killed thousands not just a few...

FloatingVoter

Good to see the two prisoners strung up. I hope they suffered. They said groundshaking consequences. I would suggest the Jordanians upload the executions of the rest of the scum to the internet.
The torture porn freaks can get a hard-on and the hipsters can whine into their latte. Given that Hitler is a hero to the ISIS militants and their fellow travellers, may I suggest piano wire for the next neck stretching exercises.
If anybody on the list can't be found, string up their kids or closest relatives instead.
Terror can be repaid in kind.

Timberrrrrrrr

Tugboats wrote: »

Hey? Isis have killed thousands not just a few...

I know, but this thread wasn't here when they were killing others, it's now after this one death we have the hard men/women screaming for cities to be bombed and "dresdenned"

rolliepoley

These people teach their Children to kill before they can walk, they breed their own successors.

Timberrrrrrrr

FloatingVoter wrote: »

Good to see the two prisoners strung up. I hope they suffered. They said groundshaking consequences. I would suggest the Jordanians upload the executions of the rest of the scum to the internet.
The torture porn freaks can get a hard-on and the hipsters can whine into their latte. Given that Hitler is a hero to the ISIS militants and their fellow travellers, may I suggest piano wire for the next neck stretching exercises.
If anybody on the list can't be found, string up their kids or closest relatives instead.
Terror can be repaid in kind.

You sound like such a nice person, will you be heading over yourself to.commit these atrocities?

Karl Stein

Sociopath2 wrote: »

Have you ever served in the military?

No.

I have.

Good for you.

so I know a bit about what I'm talking about.

You spoke of 1930/40's Germany and Japan in relation to ISIS. That does not display that you know what you're talking about.

ISIS are about 20k to 30k strong, have large numbers of NATO grade equipment seized from the Iraqi army and are doing a fairly good job of holding ground.

Which means they are incomparable to the clash of Empires of WWII.

Care to offer an opinion on how they should be dealt with?

Stop fucking shit up thousands of miles from our borders that ends up blowing back in our faces.

belacqua_

rolliepoley wrote: »

These people teach their Children to kill before they can walk, they breed their own successors.

What's their weapon of choice, dummy dummy bullets? Liga laced with polonium?

Tugboats

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I know, but this thread wasn't here when they were killing others, it's now after this one death we have the hard men/women screaming for cities to be bombed and "dresdenned"

There is a long running Isis thread on AH where people have been calling for cities to be bombed for a long time

FloatingVoter

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

You sound like such a nice person, will you be heading over yourself to.commit these atrocities?

No, I belong in the west with my fellow Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Atheist, Buddhist, Confused allies. Trained people should be used to hang our enemies.
At Nuremberg they didn't fetch in the court clerk to hang the guilty, they used professionals.
If you're going, best wishes.

Sociopath2

Karl Stein wrote: »

No.



Good for you.



You spoke of 1930/40's Germany and Japan in relation to ISIS. That does not display that you know what you're talking about.



Which means they are incomparable to the clash of Empires of WWII.



Stop fucking shit up thousands of miles from our borders that ends up blowing back in our faces.

ISIS and Nazism:

Both aggressive, ideologically driven forces.
Both seeking to create enlarged homelands based on religious/racial purity and superiority.
Both prepared to engage world powers militarily.
Both bordered by states with significant numbers of potential sympathisers.
Both willing to mass murder minorities and perceived opponents.

See any comparison there? I could go on. You're obsession with the scale of the conflict is very short sighted.

Just like the Nazis, ISIS are unlikely to surrender or cede ground without serious opposition. Any operation to defeat them will need serious resources and commitment.

Conventional military wisdom stated an attacking force needed a 3 to 1 advantage in numbers to defeat a defending force. When a conventional army is engaging a guerrilla force that may be as high as 10 to 1.

Military doctrine has changed over the years but giving ISIS a strength of 30k, it would take an estimated force of 90k to 300k to decisively defeat them.

As for "blowing up **** far from our borders", I'll take that as you admitting you don't understand the nuances of global, particularly ME, politics.

I don't see an other viable alternatives to dealing with ISIS at present. The one option I see as possible will be very messy and not one I'd like to see come to pass, but leaving ISIS unchecked is unthinkable.

My first post in this thread earlier was simply that there would be no clean military solution but it may well be the only one.

Timberrrrrrrr

FloatingVoter wrote: »

No, I belong in the west with my fellow Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Atheist, Buddhist, Confused allies. Trained people should be used to hang our enemies.
At Nuremberg they didn't fetch in the court clerk to hang the guilty, they used professionals.
If you're going, best wishes.

So you want action but only from the comfort of your living room? Another keyboard warrior proves his worth :rolleyes:

BoJack Horseman

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

So you want action but only from the comfort of your living room? Another keyboard warrior proves his worth :rolleyes:

What unit did you serve with?

Timberrrrrrrr

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

What unit did you serve with?

I don't give out personal information about myself to random strangers on the internet.

Karl Stein

Sociopath2 wrote: »

ISIS and Nazism.

Sorry, I find it hard to take anyone seriously who takes a hysterical Fox News style line by comparing ISIS with Nazism.

Conventional military wisdom stated an attacking force needed a 3 to 1 advantage in numbers to defeat a defending force. When a conventional army is engaging a guerrilla force that may be as high as 10 to 1.

So you want to put 200 to 300 hundred thousand troops in the centre of the Middle East so that every Jihadi loon from there to eternity can be drawn to it? Have you learned absolutely nothing at all from the Iraq invasion in 2003?

I'll take that as you admitting you don't understand the nuances of global, particularly ME, politics.

No. I like to go on an evidence based approach. They fucked up Iraq and that has led to what we have now. If they go in and fuck it up some more we might well end up with a worse situation down the line.

BoJack Horseman

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I don't give out personal information about myself to random strangers on the internet.

Right.

What nations military did you serve in, & what branch?

(That's abstract enough not to upset you I'm sure).

Timberrrrrrrr

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Right.

What nations military did you serve in, & what branch?

(That's abstract enough not to upset you I'm sure).

British Army Tank driver.

Tony EH

the nikkei is rising wrote: »

You idiot liberals chased away all the neocons and now there's nobody left to defend us.

The free world needs a strong leader who'll send these rats back to the stone age while allowing men to marry men in his own country.

:rolleyes:

If the fuckwit neocons had stayed in their own country, instead of screwing things up in Iraq and killing the one man who was able to deal with the region's extremists, there wouldn't be an ISIS.

Tugboats

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/king-abdullah-of-jordan-quotes-clint-eastwood-in-meeting-over-isis-killing-pilot-alkasaesbeh-10023119.html

Surprised some of the anti war lot on here aren't expressing any concern with King Abdullahs comments

anto3473

Education is the problem here, and war is not the solution. Think about it you have whole generations of kids that were denied an education their entire life because of war - a huge number of people who grew up without any hopes in life or knowing that humans have rights (they never knew safety or human rights in their own lives), they become easy prey for religious extremists to recruit like cannon fodder to continue their ancient tribal bull****. It only takes a short time for a conflict to screw a country up for generations, think about it 6 months of living through conflict in someones teens could screw them up for life mentally as well as putting a halt to their education.

What's needed is a thing the Americans term MOOTW or Military Operations Other Than War, (not an oxymoron, militaries do other things other than war) i.e. using force in so far as it takes to return a place to peacetime conditions the theory is someone who does not fear for their life constantly and has the freedom to study is far less likely to think that going around murdering each other in teams is an acceptable way to solve policy disputes.

The way to beat ISIS is to cut off their supply of recruits, and its easier, cheaper and more effective to feed and educate a population than destroy it.

Sociopath2

Karl Stein wrote: »

Sorry, I find it hard to take anyone seriously who takes a hysterical Fox News style line by comparing ISIS with Nazism seriously.



So you want to put 200 to 300 hundred thousand troops in the centre of the Middle East so that every Jihadi loon from there to eternity can be drawn to it? Have you learned absolutely nothing all from the Iraq invasion in 2003?



No. I like to go on an evidence based approach. They fucked up Iraq and that has led to what we have now. If they go in and fuck it up some more we might well end up with a worse situation down the line.

Those are perfectly valid comparisons. Please refute them with something substantial if you disagree.

If you read my post properly before getting hysterical you'll see I don't want to see troops on the ground out there, particularly western troops, but there isn't a viable alternative at the moment. If you have a suggestion please share.

I pointed out what was needed for a decisive victory, there's no point attempting a military intervention with less than that and no point expecting that there won't be high casualties.

Anyone considering intervening in the ground will have allowed for jihadi loons who join the fray, but if the objective is to completely destroy ISIS then this won't be a deterrent. This is why it may be better for the likes of Jordan, Iran or KSA to take the lead, even if they are not the most capable. It's harder to paint it as the western infidels invading then.

The US didn't commit enough troops in Iraq to counter the insurgency and when they realised this they attempted to fix it with "troop surges". Basically committing sufficient resources to solve the problem.

Could you try countering with actual arguments this time, instead of hysterics and swearing?

WakeUp

Even by jihadilands heathen barbaric standards burning that pilot was bad. watched the video up until they were about to set him on fire didnt need to see that so I didnt I thought he was most brave and composed took it like a champ I dont know how he stayed so composed but he did.

I dont think western armies going in all guns blazing is the right play that would in most probability make a really bad situation much worse. this is a middle eastern problem the arab/islamic countries need to step up its their backyard if they want isis defeated which a lot of them claim they do then stand up and do it. too many countries have their own self interests involved for the west to go in bull headed its a mess. In the west we should concentrate on deterring people from travelling out and certainly lifting people who return. have read some suggestions that returning jiahdis should be spoken too or given jobs or some such nonsense on their return which I find baffling. phuck that. reeducation camps for them their brains need rewiring and if they are deemed a threat in anyway lock them up and throw away the key.

arab/islamic countries should be pressured to do more this is their fight its their backyard and they keep telling us they want to see the back of isis. what are they waiting for so. though if they cant deal with it or are unwilling too and the jihadis manage to thrive survive organise and really focus westward and look like posing a clear and serious sustained danger to us in the west which they dont at the moment. then level the caliphate. all of it.

__________________________________________________________________________

Turkey should be in this article too but they arent. the sultan has a lot to answer for in my opinion he really does. certain elements within Turkey harbour desires for a new neo-ottoman empire theres a lot of geopolitics involved in whats going on.

____________________________________________________________________

How the US, its allies and its enemies all made ISIS possible:

Who is to blame for the rise of Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS)? The group's stunning military advances in Iraq and Syria have, together, built the most important safe haven for Islamic extremists since Taliban-held Afghanistan, and possibly ever. So it is important to understand where ISIS came from — and how it got so strong.

The truth, as usual, isn't simple. No one person or group can be blamed for ISIS's rise. The Iraqi and Syrian governments played a major role, but so did the United States, Iran, and Gulf monarchies like Saudi Arabia. This doesn't just shed light on ISIS's past and on the tangled web of responsibility for its rise. It also illuminates much larger problems: the unpredictability of proxy wars, the danger of unintended consequences, the ways in which conflict can favor extremists, and the scale of how difficult it will be to eliminate all of the factors that have led to ISIS.
http://www.vox.com/2014/8/25/6065529/isis-rise

Tugboats

anto3473 wrote: »

Education is the problem here, and war is not the solution. Think about it you have whole generations of kids that were denied an education their entire life because of war - a huge number of people who grew up without any hopes in life or knowing that humans have rights (they never knew safety or human rights in their own lives), they become easy prey for religious extremists to recruit like cannon fodder to continue their ancient tribal bull****. It only takes a short time for a conflict to screw a country up for generations, think about it 6 months of living through conflict in someones teens could screw them up for life mentally as well as putting a halt to their education.

What's needed is a thing the Americans term MOOTW or Military Operations Other Than War, (not an oxymoron, militaries do other things other than war) i.e. using force in so far as it takes to return a place to peacetime conditions the theory is someone who does not fear for their life constantly and has the freedom to study is far less likely to think that going around murdering each other in teams is an acceptable way to solve policy disputes.

The way to beat ISIS is to cut off their supply of recruits, and its easier, cheaper and more effective to feed and educate a population than destroy it.

Who do you want to feed and educate them? Remember most here think the middle east is none of our business so I hope you're not suggesting America foot the bill?

SpaceSasqwatch

Tugboats wrote: »

Surprised some of the anti war lot on here aren't expressing any concern with King Abdullahs comments

what comments?the articule you linked to doesnt say what he quoted,just that he quoted from the unforgiven...

Its a 131 minutes long movie , thats a lot of quotes :pac: