Isis burn pilot alive..

Tugboats

Karl Stein wrote: »

Protest what? ISIS aren't using Shannon as a stop over for supplies. ISIS doesn't have any support from the Irish people, Irish media .

You should read some of the posts by Ireland.man on this thread. He is the best poster here. There is a very active anti war movement in Ireland made up of very serious minded individuals who have organised anti isis events, held seminars with Kurdish speakers, organised fundraisers and offered support.

Shurimgreat

Karl Stein wrote: »

You're conflating criticism of US/NATO wars, destruction and killing with 'America'. Get off your soap-box and quit with the blowhard propaganda.

Fair enough US/NATO. EVen though NATO had no involvement in Iraq, but in any case.

Now forgetting US/NATO for a while. And Israel.

What other wars have you protested against?

Karl Stein

Shurimgreat wrote: »

And you are against Russian annexation of Crimea and interventions in eastern Ukraine too?

Yes, actually. I'm also against US neocon foreign policy in Ukraine that played a major part in creating the conditions for what is happening.

And what about the dozens of other wars currently going on around the world that have nothing to do with the US?

Will you be out protesting against them too?

I'm not in the anti-war movement and I'm not pacifist, so no.

Shurimgreat

Tugboats wrote: »

You should read some of the posts by Ireland.man on this thread. He is the best poster here. There is a very active anti war movement in Ireland made up of very serious minded individuals who have organised anti isis events, held seminars with Kurdish speakers, organised fundraisers and offered support.

If that is the case, I would respect ireland.man.

What I dislike is how every so often the Irish Anti War movement grows in size whenever America is somehow involved in something. And these fairweather supporters slink into the background again when America is not. There's definitely infiltration by some with an agenda, no question.

Shurimgreat

Karl Stein wrote: »

Yes, actually. I'm also against US neocon foreign policy in Ukraine that played a major part in creating the conditions for what is happening.

There you have it folks, completely anti American.

I give up on you.

You are living in the past, roughly 10 years ago. Obama is about as far from a neo con as you can get. The Republicans regularly scathe him for not being more interventionist.

Like all anti americans you don't even have a good understand of US politics, just a very limited one, and you think all Americans are neo con fox news watching imperialists.

Sociopath2

Karl Stein wrote: »

Why must people like you persist in conflating criticism of US/NATO wars (hundreds of thousands dead, failure in Afghanistan, failure in Iraq) with being anti-US? Most people in the US are against US wars. If anything that makes those who support US/NATO wars anti-US.



anti-Israeli state brutality not anti-Israel.

Read my post again, this time with a clear mind.
As I'm talking about conflicts and aggression it's very clear from the context that I'm talking about US/NATO/Israeli military actions.

I'm comparing the protests against those actions against the lack of protests against other states/blocs/groups similiar actions by ostensibly anti war Irish groups.

I'm not pro US or anti US. I approve of some of their actions but not others, as you'd see if you read my posts properly. I'm not anti war, I think the military option should always be considered and is sometimes the best option. It should not be the first resort in any case.

you've had your little rant about people like me. People like you are incapable of putting aside their biases for even a moment to properly read and understand what others are saying.

Connemara Farmer

I don't know how many people saw the video, I saw it this morning.

The only bit of advice I'd give anyone who might look for it is, don't.

IS are evil and need to be beaten.

Karl Stein

Shurimgreat wrote: »

There you have it folks, completely anti American.

Yep. Being against disastrous wars and invasions that have cost the American people trillions of dollars, thousands of soldiers in combat, thousands dead from suicide and tens of thousands psychologically traumatised is 'anti-American'.

You couldn't make this shit up.

SEPT 23 1989

Arguing amongst ourselves over the finer points and all the while they grow stronger

Shurimgreat

Here is an extract from the Irish anti war movement statement on the Charlie Hebdo massacre as an example.

The Charlie Hebdo atrocity is not a random act of evil. It has an historical and contemporary context which does not excuse it but which has to be understood. Like other terrorist atrocities such as 9/11 in New York and 7/7 in London or even the Birmingham Pub bombing in 1974 (all of which claimed more lives) it is a bitter fruit of the legacy of western imperial interventions, war and racism. It is completely the wrong reaction to the latter - wrong because it is brutal and reactionary in itself, and wrong because it plays into the hands of reactionaries, warmongers and racists. Nevertheless, it is a reaction to these things.

In particular in France it is a reaction to:
a) French imperialism’s long and atrocious history of colonialism in North Africa and elsewhere, but especially in Algeria where the French Government continue to meddle

irishantiwar.org

It's mostly a front for disenfranchaised far leftwing groups sadly.

The fact they make a pretty good attempt at justifying the Charlie Hebdo attack is pretty alarming, and shows their one sideness.

Ultimately it boils down to the west is bad, everywhere else is good.

I'm sure they could excuse away and apologise ISIS if they were left to it. Ah sure its not their fault and they are only reacting to the west and so on.

Karl Stein

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Arguing amongst ourselves over the finer points and all the while they grow stronger

You know what would make these guys stronger? A good old invasion by western troops. That's exactly what these guys want. These brutal killings they're carrying out are designed to provoke the very reaction we're witnessing.

Well done lads, ye're reacting precisely how they want ye to.

Repost:

ISIS planners are not stupid. They know if they can provoke a large scale reaction, by burning people alive, it would involve a hammering from the air first and foremost. ISIS fighters would run like **** to their bunkers and caves until the initial 'softening' up abated.

Then, when the bombing subsided, these guys would be out with Hi-Def cameras filming dead children being dug out of rubble. Within hours they'd have it slickly edited and all over every Islamist website on the internet. Cue thousands of disgruntled young men all over the world signing up to fight, local populations rallying around the resistance, millions of dollars pouring in from Saudi and Qatari benefactors, perhaps reprisals from extremists in the EU and everything becomes exponentially worse.

Want to hand these guys a propaganda victory like that?

Or maybe, just maybe, it would be better to let them stew in their medieval ****-holes so that the rest of the region can see just how bad their lives could get if these guys gain support/ground.

Timberrrrrrrr

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

How do you manage to type your posts while sitting on your hands? I guess you must be getting a headache from bashing your head off the keyboard.

I'm not the one calling for war, You would think that the posters in here who think ISIS should be wiped out by ANY means nessesary would be one of the first to volunteer

Shurimgreat

Karl Stein wrote: »

You know what would make these guys stronger? A good old invasion by western troops. That's exactly what these guys want. These brutal killings they're carrying out are designed to provoke the very reaction we're witnessing.

Well done lads, ye're reacting precisely how they want ye to.

Repost:

ISIS planners are not stupid. They know if they can provoke a large scale reaction, by burning people alive, it would involve a hammering from the air first and foremost. ISIS fighters would run like **** to their bunkers and caves until the initial 'softening' up abated.

Then, when the bombing subsided, these guys would be out with Hi-Def cameras filming dead children being dug out of rubble. Within hours they'd have it slickly edited and all over every Islamist website on the internet. Cue thousands of disgruntled young men all over the world signing up to fight, local populations rallying around the resistance, millions of dollars pouring in from Saudi and Qatari benefactors, perhaps reprisals from extremists in the EU and everything becomes exponentially worse.

Want to hand these guys a propaganda victory like that?

Or maybe, just maybe, it would be better to let them stew in their medieval ****-holes so that the rest of the region can see just how bad their lives could get if these guys gain support/ground.

The facts say otherwise. Thanks to US airpower, ISIS are in retreat around Kobane and everywhere else they are under threat of US airpower. Where they aren't under threat they are still making some ground. So far 6000 of them are killed as well as about half their top leadership. So in truth western airpower is having an effect.

Its not western airpower that is the problem.

Its western boots on the ground that is the problem and always have been in the middle east. So as long as we avoid a large scale boots on the ground operation, and stick to pin point strikes, ISIS will eventually be defeated. No thanks to you however.

I agree though ISIS really badly want western boots on the ground in the region, particularly Syria. But sadly for them they aren't going to get them. It's cheaper in any case to send in a few drones than maintaining a vast ground force that has to be resupplied and fed. The west makes war better and better with each passing year.

Timberrrrrrrr

tomwaterford wrote: »

If only they could be infiltrated....think of all them chaps traveling from England....mi5 would want to be sacked from there jobs if they aren't after sending agents aswell

An organization as big as Isis will. Eventually eat itself in power struggles



If you want to see a case study of this type of thing in action...look up pira...there is more than a hint that the British tackled harder the elements that couldn't be politically reasoned with...in an effort to promote more calming influence to senior ranks

See virtually little to no sectarian murder by the IRA after mid80s

And you think they haven't been infiltrated? Not every soldier knows what is happening you know.

Shurimgreat

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I'm not the one calling for war, You would think that the posters in here who think ISIS should be wiped out by ANY means nessesary would be one of the first to volunteer

We have volunteer armies in the west these days, another freedom of the west. Countries outside of the west involved in modern wars generally have conscript armies.

If I decided my profession was to be a soldier and I was trained and called up, I'd go. It's academic in the case of Irish people however. We don't even have one bomber or drone.

Tugboats

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I'm not the one calling for war,

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Train and equip the Kurds and other countries in modern warfare and let them take care of the business end of things. These middle eastern countries are oil rich and should also invest in training troops and educating their people.

.

SEPT 23 1989

Karl Stein wrote: »

You know what would make these guys stronger? A good old invasion by western troops. That's exactly what these guys want. These brutal killings they're carrying out are designed to provoke the very reaction we're witnessing.

Well done lads, ye're reacting precisely how they want ye to.

Repost:

ISIS planners are not stupid. They know if they can provoke a large scale reaction, by burning people alive, it would involve a hammering from the air first and foremost. ISIS fighters would run like **** to their bunkers and caves until the initial 'softening' up abated.

Then, when the bombing subsided, these guys would be out with Hi-Def cameras filming dead children being dug out of rubble. Within hours they'd have it slickly edited and all over every Islamist website on the internet. Cue thousands of disgruntled young men all over the world signing up to fight, local populations rallying around the resistance, millions of dollars pouring in from Saudi and Qatari benefactors, perhaps reprisals from extremists in the EU and everything becomes exponentially worse.

Want to hand these guys a propaganda victory like that?

Or maybe, just maybe, it would be better to let them stew in their medieval ****-holes so that the rest of the region can see just how bad their lives could get if these guys gain support/ground.

Give them a ground invasion but nothing like the one hand tied behind the back carry on like they witnessed in Iraq 1 & 2 and Afganistan

Karl Stein

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Thanks to US airpower, ISIS are in retreat

They're trying to put out a fire they started. I wouldn't be saying 'thanks'. I'd be saying 'stop starting fires you pyromaniac'.

BlaasForRafa

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I'm not the one calling for war, You would think that the posters in here who think ISIS should be wiped out by ANY means nessesary would be one of the first to volunteer

I haven't called for war either but I don't think letting Daesh stew in their medieval juices as one poster advocates is an option either.

Simply put, there is no "right option", just a whole lot of messy options that end up with a lot of deaths.

If Daesh weren't going about beheading people and burning people to death, persecuting and murdering religious and ethnic minorities, murdering prisoners of war, committing rape and sexual slavery, committing child sexual slavery and rape, then it would just be another run of the mill middle east insurgency. The barbarity and nihilism of Daesh marks them out as something that needs to be put down.

As I said before, the Peshmerga, Shia and Jordanians aren't strong enough on their own to do it. The Saudis and gulf arabs don't want to get rid of daesh, the turks don't want to do anything that might even indirectly help the kurds, the Iranians could but no-one else wants them to, the russians and chinese couldn't give a s**t, so who else is left to help get rid of them?

Gatling

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Give them a ground invasion but nothing like the one hand tied behind the back carry on like they witnessed in Iraq 1 & 2 and Afganistan

Don't upset the peace loving liberals

BlaasForRafa

Karl Stein wrote: »

They're trying to put out a fire they started. I wouldn't be saying 'thanks'. I'd be saying 'stop starting fires you pyromaniac'.

Just because the US invaded Iraq didn't mean that the sunni's HAD to go on a murder spree, they weren't compelled to do it, they CHOSE to do it.

Continually blaming the US in such a simplistic way as many on this thread do gives a free pass to daesh for what they chose to do.

Timberrrrrrrr

Tugboats wrote: »

.

Says the "nuke em guy"

Signed up yet?

Shurimgreat

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Signed up yet?

This is a bit laughable. To be anyways effective to fight ISIS, you'd need years of training and thousands of hours in a modern fighter jet.

The idea that you just "sign up" and go and fight them is just silly. You'd swear is was WW1 or something.

Nodin

Why are people still shiting on about Irish anti-war.....?

Gatling

Nodin wrote: »

Why are people still shiting on about Irish anti-war.....?

Apparently because there making a plan

Tugboats

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Says the "nuke em guy"

Signed up yet?

I have no problem with armed forces bombing Syria. I'm not calling for a group of guys on a message board to head over. You keep asking have people signed up.

I know you will probably duck and dive as usual but can you explain your quote below? You should not tell people you're against a war when you say things like this.

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Train and equip the Kurds and other countries in modern warfare and let them take care of the business end of things. These middle eastern countries are oil rich and should also invest in training troops and educating their people.

Timberrrrrrrr

Shurimgreat wrote: »

This is a bit laughable. To be anyways effective to fight ISIS, you'd need years of training and thousands of hours in a modern fighter jet.

The idea that you just "sign up" and go and fight them is just silly. You'd swear is was WW1 or something.

Not really

Any idiot can point a gun and shoot

You would be perfect for infantry

Gatling

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Not really

Any idiot can point a gun and shoot

You would be perfect for infantry

That completely incorrect

Timberrrrrrrr

Gatling wrote: »

That completely incorrect

As someone who has served in the armed forces and took part in an actual war i think i may have a tad more experience than you. It's really not that hard to shoot a gun.

Tugboats

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Not really

Any idiot can point a gun and shoot

You would be perfect for infantry

You missed another chance to use your Signed up yet catchphrase