Isis burn pilot alive..

Iwasfrozen

BMMachine wrote: »

yes, the famous hiding place of the terrorists! this just shows how what you know is spoon fed to you by poorly sourced news agencies. And if what you know is twisted and untrue, then what weight is there behind your opinion?

And I do disagree and history agrees with me here... wait, crap, no... I forgot about the famous mountains. you win again!

You're not very coherent. Do you or don't you agree? If not why not?

While you're at it leave the conspiracy theories and accusations. I'm trying to give you the benefit of doubt in this conversation but you're pushing it.

evo2000

BMMachine wrote: »

im criticising everyone elses opinion because its very clear they have absolutely no understanding of whats going on there and have no desire to learn about it. Sorry if its easy to dismiss all your points, but it is.


and yeah, its a tinfoil hat thing. just use that phrase and I'm automatically wrong. Your ignorance is quite unbearable

You keep repeating that, but fall short of actually gracing us with ur wisdom, constantly repeating something doesn't make it any more true.

InTheTrees

BMMachine wrote: »

im criticising everyone elses opinion because...

because you dont have one of your own?

evo2000

InTheTrees wrote: »

because you dont have one of your own?

lol

BMMachine

HURRR ya got me guys! lets just bomb them to bits that will work.

"conspiracy theories and accusations" there are no theories mate. there are things that have happened. As I said, check that video I linked earlier. It is 2 hours and 20 minutes though so ya know, pay attention. Unfortunately there isn't a 5 minute news snippet for you to base your opinion around so this might be tough going.

"And I do disagree" - see. thats the part there where I disagreed. It says so with the word "disagree". you quoted that word. why do you think it was there?


And why would I be able to offer a solution to this deeply complicated problem in the Middle East? There are forces at work that have so much depth to them that I could probably spend a lifetime analysing and still come to no solution. Is it hard to understand that you guys, and me, don't have any business proposing solutions? The big problem is that you guys post extremely costly solutions, in terms of lives and money that have proven categorically NOT to be the solution and in fact only seem to cause more damage and drive further extremism (on both sides). Thats why I can so easily dismiss your arguments, they have been tried and tested and haven't worked so why do the same thing again?

BMMachine

HURRR ya got me guys! lets just bomb them to bits that will work.

"conspiracy theories and accusations" there are no theories mate. there are things that have happened. As I said, check that video I linked earlier. It is 2 hours and 20 minutes though so ya know, pay attention. Unfortunately there isn't a 5 minute news snippet for you to base your opinion around so this might be tough going.

"And I do disagree" - see. thats the part there where I disagreed. It says so with the word "disagree". you quoted that word. why do you think it was there?


And why would I be able to offer a solution to this deeply complicated problem in the Middle East? There are forces at work that have so much depth to them that I could probably spend a lifetime analysing and still come to no solution. Is it hard to understand that you guys, and me, don't have any business proposing solutions? The big problem is that you guys post extremely costly solutions, in terms of lives and money that have proven categorically NOT to be the solution and in fact only seem to cause more damage and drive further extremism (on both sides). Thats why I can so easily dismiss your arguments, they have been tried and tested and haven't worked so why do the same thing again?

evo2000

BMMachine wrote: »

HURRR ya got me guys! lets just bomb them to bits that will work.

"conspiracy theories and accusations" there are no theories mate. there are things that have happened. As I said, check that video I linked earlier. It is 2 hours and 20 minutes though so ya know, pay attention. Unfortunately there isn't a 5 minute news snippet for you to base your opinion around so this might be tough going.

"And I do disagree" - see. thats the part there where I disagreed. It says so with the word "disagree". you quoted that word. why do you think it was there?


And why would I be able to offer a solution to this deeply complicated problem in the Middle East? There are forces at work that have so much depth to them that I could probably spend a lifetime analysing and still come to no solution. Is it hard to understand that you guys, and me, don't have any business proposing solutions? The big problem is that you guys post extremely costly solutions, in terms of lives and money that have proven categorically NOT to be the solution and in fact only seem to cause more damage and drive further extremism (on both sides). Thats why I can so easily dismiss your arguments, they have been tried and tested and haven't worked so why do the same thing again?

if you post it 20 more times we might agree!

Karl Stein

InTheTrees wrote: »

Well what would your solution have been for Kobani?

Always the focus on effects and not causes.

I wouldn't have invaded Iraq in 2003 in the first place and I wouldn't have supported Islamist 'rebels' in Syria so it wouldn't have been a question I would have had to answer.

The excuse to go into Iraq was 'Saddam must be stopped', then we end up with a murderous civil war and eventually IS.

The excuse to go in and take on IS 'IS must be stopped' then what? A more murderous group of head-bangers come along with an even larger territory and greater support a few years down the line?

harrymagina

I'd love to blow torch every one of their testicles and eyeballs off, then get a broken pool cue shoved up their arse like Fran and let them die in pain.

Iwasfrozen

BMMachine wrote: »

HURRR ya got me guys! lets just bomb them to bits that will work.

"conspiracy theories and accusations" there are no theories mate. there are things that have happened. As I said, check that video I linked earlier. It is 2 hours and 20 minutes though so ya know, pay attention. Unfortunately there isn't a 5 minute news snippet for you to base your opinion around so this might be tough going.

"And I do disagree" - see. thats the part there where I disagreed. It says so with the word "disagree". you quoted that word. why do you think it was there?


And why would I be able to offer a solution to this deeply complicated problem in the Middle East? There are forces at work that have so much depth to them that I could probably spend a lifetime analysing and still come to no solution. Is it hard to understand that you guys, and me, don't have any business proposing solutions? The big problem is that you guys post extremely costly solutions, in terms of lives and money that have proven categorically NOT to be the solution and in fact only seem to cause more damage and drive further extremism (on both sides). Thats why I can so easily dismiss your arguments, they have been tried and tested and haven't worked so why do the same thing again?

Ok so you disagree with my assertion we're making progress but I also asked you why you disagree?

BlaasForRafa

GerB40 wrote: »

To me it seems obvious that Isreal want every Palestinian dead, does that not classify as genocide?

1. No, it does not classify as genocide. There are very specific definitions for genocide, just look at the Croatia vs Serbia case decided at the International Court of Justice yesterday.
2. If Israel wanted every palestinian dead, they would be dead.
3. Israel does not want every palestinian dead, that's a ridiculous notion.

In any case, that's going off-topic, this thread is about ISIS and their barbarism.

As for what to do, that's a tough question, look at the other players in the area:

The peshmerga are reasonably effective but they're a fairly small force and don't particularly want to fight outside kurdish areas.
The Shia Iraqis don't particularly want to fight outside the shia areas of iraq.
The Sunni Iraqis either sympathise with ISIS or hate the Shia more than Isis or are waiting to see who the winning side will be.
The Syrian Government are a pretty nasty lot too. Ditto for Hezbollah.
The FSA are a busted flush.
The Turks don't want to do anything that would help the Kurds.
The Jordanian army probably wouldn't be strong enough.
The Iranians could probably exterminate ISIS but nobody wants to see them get their claws further into Iraq.
The Saudis and Qataris aren't particularly idealogically opposed to ISIS but they need to appear pro-western to look like they're on the right side.
The Russians and Chinese are quite happy to sell arms to any side and don't have any particular moral objections to anyone being slaughtered.
The US and Europe don't want to get boots on the ground because as soon as they do the whole arab world will go into hate-mode against them.

Have I left anyone out?

BMMachine

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Ok so you disagree with my assertion we're making progress but I also asked you why you disagree?

I disagree because the IS will still operate, exactly like both Al-Qaeda and other extremist movements across the region. And exactly the same as the various Warlords and corrupt officials do in Afghanistan.
Troops on the ground have proven not to be able to stop this. That is a fact.

Iwasfrozen

You pretty much got it but I would suggest Russia want ISIS gone as much as us.

nokia69

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Have I left anyone out?

you left out Israel, who don't seem very worried about ISIS, in fact some claim that they have been helping ISIS

also the US UK and France are right now training more ISIS fighters in Jordan

its crazy IMO

Iwasfrozen

BMMachine wrote: »

I disagree because the IS will still operate, exactly like both Al-Qaeda and other extremist movements across the region. And exactly the same as the various Warlords and corrupt officials do in Afghanistan.
Troops on the ground have proven not to be able to stop this. That is a fact.

Do you agree though that their ability to operate as any sort of cohesive state would be totally comprised?

BMMachine

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Do you agree though that their ability to operate as any sort of cohesive state would be totally comprised?

probably a bit, but that isn't the only effect western troops will have on the region. In fact, they would only up the recruitment of extremist groups, again, this is time proven. They would also cause massive harm to the local economies and societies.

cerastes

Reading the last page of posts, this seems to have gone off on a tangent
While its really barbaric what has happened to this pilot, I'm stunned that people are surprised or shocked? What did they think the pilot was also doing? Dropping bombs on these guys, they were hardly going to throw him a party after he ejected.
In all likelihood bombing people seems to get their blood up, and its as likely he sent innocent victims to their graves horribly too. Whatever of that ,it was always going to be a bad end for this guy, and as horrific as his death seems like it may have been (I didn't look for it in any link or online) its hardly a suprise this would happen, its a propaganda coup for his captors and sends a deadly message to his comrades or others flying similar missions. I'd be more surprised if it didn't curtail missions from the countries that are sending their air forces to carry out attacks on isis, if that is the case then Isis will have aided their own military circumstances by being as brutal as possible, not that I agree with it, just that it seems the obvious is being overlooked.

porsche959

cerastes wrote: »

its as likely he sent innocent victims to their graves horribly too.

I think that's a bit of a stretch, there is no moral equivalance between an air pilot following legitimate orders and ISIS which has no legitimacy and is not recognised by any government on the planet.

DarkyHughes

remember thE UVF had plans to murder at least 30 school kids under 12 in 1976 but was postponed at the last minute not because of morality but because they were afraid of the IRA response

evo2000

cerastes wrote: »

Reading the last page of posts, this seems to have gone off on a tangent
While its really barbaric what has happened to this pilot, I'm stunned that people are surprised or shocked? What did they think the pilot was also doing? Dropping bombs on these guys, they were hardly going to throw him a party after he ejected.
In all likelihood bombing people seems to get their blood up, and its as likely he sent innocent victims to their graves horribly too. Whatever of that ,it was always going to be a bad end for this guy, and as horrific as his death seems like it may have been (I didn't look for it in any link or online) its hardly a suprise this would happen, its a propaganda coup for his captors and sends a deadly message to his comrades or others flying similar missions. I'd be more surprised if it didn't curtail missions from the countries that are sending their air forces to carry out attacks on isis, if that is the case then Isis will have aided their own military circumstances by being as brutal as possible, not that I agree with it, just that it seems the obvious is being overlooked.

That would make sense if the burning of the pilot was a stand out incident, but its not it s a drop in the ocean the next installment of how barbaric ISIS can get,

speedboatchase

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

As for what to do, that's a tough question, look at the other players in the area:

The peshmerga are reasonably effective but they're a fairly small force and don't particularly want to fight outside kurdish areas.
The Shia Iraqis don't particularly want to fight outside the shia areas of iraq.
The Sunni Iraqis either sympathise with ISIS or hate the Shia more than Isis or are waiting to see who the winning side will be.
The Syrian Government are a pretty nasty lot too. Ditto for Hezbollah.
The FSA are a busted flush.
The Turks don't want to do anything that would help the Kurds.
The Jordanian army probably wouldn't be strong enough.
The Iranians could probably exterminate ISIS but nobody wants to see them get their claws further into Iraq.
The Saudis and Qataris aren't particularly idealogically opposed to ISIS but they need to appear pro-western to look like they're on the right side.
The Russians and Chinese are quite happy to sell arms to any side and don't have any particular moral objections to anyone being slaughtered.
The US and Europe don't want to get boots on the ground because as soon as they do the whole arab world will go into hate-mode against them.

Have I left anyone out?

Great assessment. I think by the end of the year the US and Europe will have boots on the ground.

nokia69

speedboatchase wrote: »

Great assessment. I think by the end of the year the US and Europe will have boots on the ground.

I doubt it

BlaasForRafa

nokia69 wrote: »

you left out Israel, who don't seem very worried about ISIS, in fact some claim that they have been helping ISIS

Aside from the odd attack on the syrian army or hezbollah (which is primarily to deny Hezbollah from getting advanced weaponry), I don't see it. Got any examples?

nokia69 wrote: »

also the US UK and France are right now training more ISIS fighters in Jordan

Any evidence for that?

old_aussie

I'm sure someone will be along very soon to explain it all to us, so no noise.

floggg

evo2000 wrote: »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2938199/Burned-alive-cage-ISIS-release-video-claiming-horrifying-murder-captured-Jordanian-pilot.html

Anyone else think its time to take off the gloves with these ***** and just go in and kill every last one of them, if there was ever a need for something to be wiped out its these lads, beheading children and putting there heads on pikes WTF!...Send in a coalition with the goal of killing every single one of them!

This truly is a new low for humanity!

We have had multiple genocides killing over 1 million people in the last 100 years, one of which was done with ****ing machetes, and this is a new low?

nokia69

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Aside from the odd attack on the syrian army or hezbollah (which is primarily to deny Hezbollah from getting advanced weaponry), I don't see it. Got any examples?



Any evidence for that?

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.623717

there are other reports of Israel treating wounded ISIS fighters and letting them return to syria, its working out well for Israel, a few years ago Assad had a decent army, the same with Iraq, no matter what happens in the next few years all the countries around Israel are far weaker in every way

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/war-against-isis-british-troops-likely-to-train-syrian-rebels-nearly-three-years-after-similar-plan-failed-9771432.html

https://news.vice.com/article/learning-to-fight-like-an-american-at-the-free-syrian-army-training-camp

of course the US/UK will claim that they are only backing the moderate FSA, but the FSA no longer exist, all its members are now fighting with ISIS, and so will the next batch of fighters they train and arm, very stupid IMO

its just a sunni Vs shia war at this stage

ireland.man

floggg wrote: »

We have had multiple genocides killing over 1 million people in the last 100 years, one of which was done with ****ing machetes, and this is a new low?

A common occurrence a few years ago in the Congo was for terrorists to force fathers to rape daughters and then burn both to death. There's plenty of people burnt to to death every day by extremists of all persuasions, it's quite common in Burma for Muslims to be murdered this way by mobs led by Buddhist monks. In fact last night someone posted a video from Brazil of a rapist being slowly burnt to death.

Most of the lads on this thread choose not to critical evaluate the information they receive through the media. It's why you see people talk about using nuclear weapons, praising W Bush, talking about rescinding the Geneva Conventions, etc ad nauseam. They genuinely think the horrible death of that pilot is some fundamental departure when only a few months ago children were being burnt to death in Gaza or how every week a child dies in Laos due to the unexploded ordinance from the Vietnam War.

There's one group here condemning all deaths of civilians. Then there's the other group who emerge to demand retribution when civilians are killed in only some circumstances.

ronan45

Anything to be said about 300 Abrams M1 Tanks 100 APache Helicopters and the rest of the Arsenal and Drive straight through ISIS " Capital" of Raqqa and out and leave them with a bloody nose and level the place for good measure :cool:

Kinda like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9sDxvsbsnA

No chance but would love to see them thugs be anihilated

john why

DarkyHughes wrote: »

remember thE UVF had plans to murder at least 30 school kids under 12 in 1976 but was postponed at the last minute not because of morality but because they were afraid of the IRA response

Do you have any links on this,

Thanks

ireland.man

john why wrote: »

Do you have any links on this,

Thanks

http://www.nuzhound.com/articles/irish_news/arts2007/jul9_UVF_planned_kill_30_children.php

There's a vast amount of muddied water around this matter and there's claims and counter-claims but you should be able to find a lot of info from that link above and searching for key names, etc.