Isis burn pilot alive..

seamus

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Killing people they wanted released doesn't fuel their cause. Giving into their demands would.

Yeah, that's debateable. This particular brand of fire-breathing Islam puts a lot of positivity in an honourable death, especially if it's in service of Islam.

To a certain extent putting prisoners to death has the potential to be as incendiary as the executions of the 1916 leaders - turning a minor rebellion into a major outrage.

Treating your prisoners as human beings with a bit of respect and dignity has the potential to take the wind out of the sails of the fundamentalists. Broadcast videos of major prisoners being free to wander around a yard, sharing a laugh with other prisoners, partaking freely in daily prayers, studying and relaxing and being treated with respect.

The power of fundamentalists comes from being able to portray the enemy as evil heartless monsters hellbent on genocide (that's exactly what the GOP do). They only way to diminish that power is propaganda showing the exact opposite.

chrysagon

Tugboats wrote: »

Not really, the incident in Paris was quickly forgotten about and nothing has been done. Yesterday the Uk jailed a guy for 3 years for having links to Isis and plotting terrorism acts. Its expected he will serve 13months:o

agree Tug, but i meant something of real big proportions!

BoJack Horseman

ireland.man wrote: »

I've absolutely no idea.

So why criticise?

Option A: Destroy ISIS
Option B: Shrug shoulders.

I'm going to pick Plan A over your Plan B

ireland.man

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

So why criticise?

Option A: Destroy ISIS
Option B: Shrug shoulders.

I'm going to pick Plan A over your Plan B

Slow down, breathe, accept the world is not filled with black and white political situations, do what we can right now that we know will definitely be beneficial for the 100,000s of ISIS hostages in regions under their control and for god sake don't base your strategy off of 80's American war movies.

ireland.man

Seriously, nuclear weapons, military propaganda videos depicting aircraft carriers and rock music, talking about thousands of tanks streaming into Mosul... and if you disagree and want a nuanced approach you're justifying terrorism!

I often wonder if the thread is filled with 16 year olds!

karma_

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

So why criticise?

Option A: Destroy ISIS
Option B: Shrug shoulders.

I'm going to pick Plan A over your Plan B

This is just viewing every problem as a nail and the solution as a hammer. It's also jingoistic simplistic nonsense.

BoJack Horseman

karma_ wrote: »

This is just viewing every problem as a nail and the solution as a hammer. It's also jingoistic simplistic nonsense.

I eagerly await your alternative to destroying IS.

Tugboats

ireland.man wrote: »

And the number of hostages ISIS has is now two (apart from the thousands of captured Iraqi and Syrian soldiers and others being slaughtered daily by ISIS).

Dismiss it as its only 2 all you want. These 2 hostages(or maybe more?) are far more important to ISIS then thousands of locals from Iraq and Syria. These hostages can be used to spread fear and propaganda . Throwing a gay muslim from a building rooftop just doesn't interest the West and grab the headlines.

Last nights video looked like their main event or at least its coming close to it which suggests their biggest weapon is in short supply. You talk about cutting off their finances and securing boarders but removing the opportunity of them getting hostages is equally important.

Iwasfrozen

http://shepherdspiehole.typepad.com/.a/6a0167621b7ded970b01901ea12f7a970b-pi

Tugboats

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

http://shepherdspiehole.typepad.com/.a/6a0167621b7ded970b01901ea12f7a970b-pi

The anti war brigade sure do miss him. I remember when he was the pantomime villain. People who were outraged at his wars and deaths he caused painted their faces, wore Halloween masks, waved flags, banged drums and seemed to have fun at marches

GerB40

conorhal wrote: »

"Fighting for peace is like fúcking for virginity" A statement as glib, stupid and quite obvously wrong as Neville Chamberlain's arriving back in the UK waving an agreement signed by Adolf Hitler and declaring 'peace in our time'.
Sometimes you do have to fight for peace or live under tyranny, and those that live under tyranny will never know a moments peace.

I know, that's why I said "a necessary evil".

DarkJager

I notice some opinion pieces online suggesting this video was filmed in Raqqa, Syria. This place keeps being named as an IS stronghold, so why have airstrikes not flattened it and everything in it to the ground? Surely this place is the main target if they really want to put a knife in to IS?

Wurzelbert

Rough Sleeper wrote: »

You must have a pretty abysmal knowledge of both history and current affairs if you think someone getting burned alive is some sort of unprecedented event.

the fact that something bad has been done before – and pretty much anything one could possibly think of has been done to someone at some stage – is completely irrelevant here and does not make isis’ actions any less atrocious or in any way acceptable...yet fighting that sort of muslim extremism is a never-ending game of whack-a-mole as there are just too many of them and an endless supply of disgruntled young muslims out there...

RobYourBuilder

What do people think should be done with the 5,000 European based ISIS fighters? Should they be allowed to return?

DarkJager

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

What do people think should be done with the 5,000 European based ISIS fighters? Should they be allowed to return?

Absolutely, welcome them all back with open arms and then murder each and every one of them when they step off the planes.

Wurzelbert

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

What do people think should be done with the 5,000 European based ISIS fighters? Should they be allowed to return?

better not, depending on what can be done about it legally and all...

kidneyfan

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

What do people think should be done with the 5,000 European based ISIS fighters? Should they be allowed to return?

They should be encouraged to return and then hanged.

Timberrrrrrrr

DarkJager wrote: »

Absolutely, welcome them all back with open arms and then murder each and every one of them when they step off the planes.

kidneyfan wrote: »

They should be encouraged to return and then hanged.

The keyboard warriors are strong in this thread :rolleyes:

Skylinehead

DarkJager wrote: »

I notice some opinion pieces online suggesting this video was filmed in Raqqa, Syria. This place keeps being named as an IS stronghold, so why have airstrikes not flattened it and everything in it to the ground? Surely this place is the main target if they really want to put a knife in to IS?

Because 200,000 people live there? People who advocate nuking these places are arguably, somehow, worse than ISIS.

DarkJager

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

The keyboard warriors are strong in this thread :rolleyes:

It's called an opinion. And for the record, I would happily back up my statement and personally execute these scum if given a chance with no legal repercussions. I mean that 100%.

DarkJager

Skylinehead wrote: »

Because 200,000 people live there? People who advocate nuking these places are arguably, somehow, worse than ISIS.

A ground force would sustain countless casualties trying to remove IS from Raqqa. The only sensible option is to destroy it. Obviously there will be a large loss of civilian life, but the annihilation of IS is top priority.

Skylinehead

DarkJager wrote: »

A ground force would sustain countless casualties trying to remove IS from Raqqa.

Not 200,000 though.

The only sensible option is to destroy it. Obviously there will be a large loss of civilian life, but the annihilation of IS is top priority.

Why? IS hasn't even killed anywhere near that many people itself. Why is it ok for us to kill thousands of innocent people and not IS?

You're absolutely braindead.

Wurzelbert

DarkJager wrote: »

A ground force would sustain countless casualties trying to remove IS from Raqqa. The only sensible option is to destroy it. Obviously there will be a large loss of civilian life, but the annihilation of IS is top priority.

how? the thermonuclear option maybe?

ireland.man

Tugboats wrote: »

Dismiss it as its only 2 all you want. These 2 hostages(or maybe more?) are far more important to ISIS then thousands of locals from Iraq and Syria. These hostages can be used to spread fear and propaganda . Throwing a gay muslim from a building rooftop just doesn't interest the West and grab the headlines.

Last nights video looked like their main event or at least its coming close to it which suggests their biggest weapon is in short supply. You talk about cutting off their finances and securing boarders but removing the opportunity of them getting hostages is equally important.

I'm not dismissing 2 people's lives but I'm including all 100,000 other hostages they have and are mistreating. You're choosing to focus on two and ignoring every non-'famous' hostage. How in gods name can you justify ignoring some hostages in favour of others?

AudreyHepburn

I'm not a violent person nor do I advocate violence as an answer to any problem....usually.

However I make an exception for ISIS and the like...these people are completely inhumane and deserve to be treated as such. Violence is, sadly, the only language they understand and I would have no hesitate in supporting any act, violent or otherwise, against them.

RIP that poor pilot. I'm not even going to read the articles on it, never mind look at the video....the mere thought of it is horrific enough.

07Lapierre

ISIS...some people just can't be reasoned with..

http://youtu.be/efHCdKb5UWc

DarkJager

Skylinehead wrote: »

Not 200,000 though.


Why? IS hasn't even killed anywhere near that many people itself. Why is it ok for us to kill thousands of innocent people and not IS?

You're absolutely braindead.

Why don't you suggest an alternative so instead of personally attacking me? Or do you think that allowing this organisation to continue existing without any intervention is acceptable?

RobYourBuilder

Wurzelbert wrote: »

better not, depending on what can be done about it legally and all...

Our lads want 'disenfranchised' Jihadis to liase with the Gardai. Sweden want to give them jobs and help them integrate. I'm of the opinion that you can't reasonate with people who have the mentality of an 11th century tribal warlord.

Make them persons non grata.

Skylinehead

DarkJager wrote: »

Why don't you suggest an alternative so instead of personally attacking me? Or do you think that allowing this organisation to continue existing without any intervention is acceptable?

Actually, it's more acceptable than condemning hundreds of thousands of innocent people to their deaths. Anything is better than that horror. If you actually believe that to be a legitimate approach to the situation, you're a despicable human being.

cerastes

porsche959 wrote: »

I think that's a bit of a stretch, there is no moral equivalance between an air pilot following legitimate orders and ISIS which has no legitimacy and is not recognised by any government on the planet.

Just because he was following orders does not make it moral or just. I very much get that he was unlikely to be able to disobey these orders. But given the seemingly rapid success of ISIS, either bombing isnt effective or something else is going on and as it seems likely they are being supported by someone. An innocent child there, or their family (or anyone else) doesnt care if the pilot was "just following orders" or if their Govt is legitimate (we'll probably have someone/the same posters on complaining about Saudi/Qatar/UAE and their own records of rights or how they are barely legitimate).
Point is, you will have created a whole new group of people willing to follow brutal orders, they have lost their own, who did it? point them in the right direction and hey presto, un ending war.

evo2000 wrote: »

That would make sense if the burning of the pilot was a stand out incident, but its not it s a drop in the ocean the next installment of how barbaric ISIS can get,

Its a drop in the Ocean of the barbarity and cruelty of any side willing to get involved, it started somewhere and it shouldnt have been, further involvement as it has been is not appearing to be successful, unless there is some other plan?

conorhal wrote: »

It takes a special kind of stupid to draw a moral equivilence between sombody fighting IS and the soldiers of IS.
Sure dem Royal Airforce chaps, where't dey just as bad as the Waffen SS demselves?

Eh, No.

Its nice you see it so simply, how do you think the US turned around the insurgency in iraq? not by fighting with all sides, but by supporting those most moderate (such as it was, but likely very much composed of the sunni former ranks of the iraqi army they had disbanded) and paying, funding and arming them to fight the more extreme elements.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

rather than being all high and mighty about this, how about offering some sort of opinion on how ISIS should be dealt with.

ISIS are genocidal thugs who think nothing of murdering and raping innocent men, women and children because they don't fit in with their perverted view of Islam.

There are always moderate elements waiting in the wings, not powerful enough to deal with the brutality and force of whoever is holding the reins, in this case ISIS. Unfortunately western govts have a bad reputation for pulling the plug on support for anyone like this, and leaving them hang out to dry.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

How about you stop trying to excuse people being burned alive?

Ok, so lets not excuse one guy burned alive and it was obviously horrific, and as some posters have suggested, nuke em all! which will burn thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands alive? even a moderate version of that? have you seen pictures of victims of bombings in iraq, horrific stuff, adding fuel to fire doesnt usually work out well, how do you propose to get rid of every last one? ethnic cleansing?

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Moronic post, you're comparing the morality of accidental civilian deaths during war to public execution of a man by burning him alive.

accidental? you think anyone cares if its accidental if they see their child blown to bits, or mrotally wounded and in agony, they just know you dropped the bombs. Do you have children? or a family? would you really not care if someone dropped bombs that burned them in an agonising death and then tell me you'd consider using accidental in how you'd describe it?

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

What do people think should be done with the 5,000 European based ISIS fighters? Should they be allowed to return?

My initial thought is no, but then if they are returning despondent as many seem to be, allowing them to return to spread this despondency is a malignancy and truth that will undermine support in europe for this kind of radicalism, probably more effectively as they have seen what a caliphate means, better than being lectured to by politicians. Im not saying dont keep an eye on them, debrief them, determine if they are a threat, are they from this region or now just seeking asylum? if returning passport holders, maybe they are eligible to return, but they might prove more useful than just hanging them as some have suggested.

kidneyfan wrote: »

They should be encouraged to return and then hanged.

That worked out well in 1916, turned an unsupportive population into one who even now believes it was a popular revolution.
Some may not be eligible to return or maybe shouldnt be allowed, depending on any crimes that can be determined, if thats possible, others may have better use to undermine radicalism as if they have returned unhappy they will have seen first hand its wrongs, that will be cheaper and more effective than bombing more people to pieces and then creating a never ending cycle of their families and witnesses willing to join the fight against the west.
Stop bombing and supporting these groups, there was not as significant a humanitarian crisis before an insurgency was supported in Syria, or before iraq was invaded, wars have proved futile and ineffective at bringing peace and democracy, look at iraq or libya, I honestly can say, however bad their leaders were, they were no significant or even any threat to the west in military terms.
So what has the purpose of nearly fifteen years of war been? seems likes its purpose was not to bring democracy or peace, the populations were generally better off in these countries before all this started as were they in the west, no threat from the west, no threat to the west. The only consistent thing that seems to exist since all this is instability, I think its intentional, and it cumulates in whatever are the latest deaths, as it happens this pilot.

Its funny how I feel some of the posters demanding violent retribution, would likely be or have already been the same who would protest the brutality and lack of democracy of the likes of certain middle eastern gulf states, and yet now the same kind of posters are calling for the same kind or even worse brutality to be unleashed on what is likely to be mostly innocent populations with no choice but to exist where ISIS operate, so fcuk yeh, lets bomb em all, hang them, nuke em.
ISIS it seems cannot be negotiated with, but there must be some there that can, whos fighting these guys now? kurds, syria, maybe these are the people to support, doesnt (or didnt) syria have quite moderate values? women going around in quite western clothing, no strict interpretation of islam? yet the west seems to be supporting the radical extremists???