Isis burn pilot alive..

Skylinehead

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Your right.

The only way to destroy ISIS is to destroy the entire planet.

You should probably follow the conversation if you're going to jump in with ridiculous remarks. I was referring to his lovely idea of nuking a city of 200,000 innocent people to kill a few terrorists.

DarkJager

Skylinehead wrote: »

You should probably follow the conversation if you're going to jump in with ridiculous remarks. I was referring to his lovely idea of nuking a city of 200,000 innocent people to kill a few terrorists.

Pretty sure I didn't say anything about a nuke but please quote me if you find it!

Magico Gonzalez

Invaded Iraq, crushed the army, crushed the regime. What happened next? Into the vacuum flooded sectarian violence, chaos and radicalisation.

So, we invade Libya, blowing it to bits from above. How's that panning out right now? Anyone want to guess what state Libya is in now? Anyone want to believe it was less safe and less stable beforehand?

Syria - we support the rebels, we have the regime. Turns out the rebels are the bad guys AND the regime are the bad guys.

Solution?

Let's support the bad guys that we always thought were bad guys because now we've discovered some bad guys who are really are bad guys.

What this would achieve. Dead civilians. Dead soldiers. Dead hostages. Complete instability in the region. Another terrorist military grouping would emerge and expand. Should they ever get into Lebanon next door to Israel you're probably looking at the start of WW3.

I haven't a clue what the solution is, but time and time again in this region it is clearly demonstrated to us (look at the mess we've made of Iraq, look at what we caused in Iran) that intervening, knocking over democracies and dictators alike has the same consequence. Something worse rushing into the void.

ireland.man

Here's the (terrible) thing, I think a resurgent Assad, bolstered by Iran and Hezbollah, with the Peshmerga pressuring the other side and internal discontent amongst the Sunni tribes who previously supported ISIS will be their undoing. ISIS doesn't have the funds to administer a large region, only enough to conquer new land. Their brutality is turning people against them already. The worst thing that could happen is for the West to cause more civilian causalities and continue to hand ISIS their propaganda on a plate.

Tugboats

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I'm talking about a well planned boots on the ground (not western troops as this will cause more problems than solve) action by troops from that region, not an invasion by western troops, not carpet bombing towns and cities filled with innocent civilians and certainly not nuking the area as some fools on here have advocated.

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

It's a middle eastern problem so let them sort it out. You want western troops to go in? How did that work in Afghanistan? Iraq?

Sure lets just bomb em all and let their god sort em out right?

There would still be civilian casualties no matter how well planned. Its not Call of Duty.

Then you say its a middle eastern problem but you earlier you said you wanted western governments to fund it and train fighters. In the eyes of Isis and potential recruits this would nearly be the same thing as western boots on the ground.

You're all over the place

Skylinehead

DarkJager wrote: »

Pretty sure I didn't say anything about a nuke but please quote me if you find it!

You didn't specifically mention nuke no, but you do mention razing Raqqa to the ground. Which is the same damn thing at the end of the day. And you tried to justify killing all the people in the place, which again is the same result. You're just nitpicking now to justify your barbarism.

Timberrrrrrrr

Tugboats wrote: »

There would still be civilian casualties no matter how well planned. Its not Call of Duty.

Then you say its a middle eastern problem but you earlier you said you wanted western governments to fund it and train fighters. In the eyes of Isis and potential recruits this would nearly be the same thing as western boots on the ground.

You're all over the place

Boots on the ground operation = limited civilian casualties

Carpet bombing/nuking cities = mass murder on the idiotic scale, do you not see the difference?

Personally i would see the west pull out of the region and leave it to the middle eastern governments but then that would just give ISIS free range in the region hence why i said training and equipment would be needed.

Magico Gonzalez

ireland.man wrote: »

Here's the (terrible) thing, I think a resurgent Assad, bolstered by Iran and Hezbollah, with the Peshmerga pressuring the other side and internal discontent amongst the Sunni tribes who previously supported ISIS will be their undoing. ISIS doesn't have the funds to administer a large region, only enough to conquer new land. Their brutality is turning people against them already. The worst thing that could happen is for the West to cause more civilian causalities and continue to hand ISIS their propaganda on a plate.

ISIS are pretty well funded, estimates at the end of last year put their income in the order of 1 to 3m per day. Once they take over territory they demand money, they sell oil to smugglers. There are some who believe those charming princes in Saudi Arabia might be funding ISIS as a proxy to fight their sectarian wars.

Remember there is a sectarian elements to this as well, inter muslim violence still growing in the region.

Do not underestimate how messy this is going to get.

ireland.man

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

ISIS are pretty well funded, estimates at the end of last year put their income in the order of 1 to 3m per day. Once they take over territory they demand money, they sell oil to smugglers. There are some who believe those charming princes in Saudi Arabia might be funding ISIS as a proxy to fight their sectarian wars.

Remember there is a sectarian elements to this as well, inter muslim violence still growing in the region.

Do not underestimate how messy this is going to get.

Trust me, I'm very, very pessimistic about how this will develop.

But really a few million a day isn't enough to run those regions to any proper pre-war level. In fact simple finance may well be ISIS biggest weakness. 3m can get you a lot of weapons and soldiers but can't provide a single running, well stocked hospital or school system in a single city, never mind the region.

liam24

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

Invaded Iraq, crushed the army, crushed the regime. What happened next? Into the vacuum flooded sectarian violence, chaos and radicalisation.

So, we invade Libya, blowing it to bits from above. How's that panning out right now? Anyone want to guess what state Libya is in now? Anyone want to believe it was less safe and less stable beforehand?

Syria - we support the rebels, we have the regime. Turns out the rebels are the bad guys AND the regime are the bad guys.

Solution?

Let's support the bad guys that we always thought were bad guys because now we've discovered some bad guys who are really are bad guys.

What this would achieve. Dead civilians. Dead soldiers. Dead hostages. Complete instability in the region. Another terrorist military grouping would emerge and expand. Should they ever get into Lebanon next door to Israel you're probably looking at the start of WW3.

I haven't a clue what the solution is, but time and time again in this region it is clearly demonstrated to us (look at the mess we've made of Iraq, look at what we caused in Iran) that intervening, knocking over democracies and dictators alike has the same consequence. Something worse rushing into the void.

This is an Irish forum, and 'we' had nothing to do with it.

lazybones32

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

So you advocate the actions of ISIS? Because that's exactly the language they are using.

No. I don't advocate beheading captives for propaganda purposes, outrageous ransom decrees to garner publicity or initiating prisoner transfers before executing them in a manner that will capture publicity.
Flowery language, love and acceptance won't stop these rag-heads from continuing their crusade so the only viable option left is to crush them. The end game of any war should be to stop your enemy from continuing their fight against you. Unless destabilising a region is part of the 'game-plan'...

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

It's a middle eastern problem so let them sort it out. You want western troops to go in? How did that work in Afghanistan? Iraq?

Sure lets just bomb em all and let their god sort em out right?

A M.E. problem, yes, but one that most likely has it's roots in Western intervention/interference.

I don't recommend bombing only. I'd nearly go with a blitzkrieg-type offence. Crush them. When they capitulate, surrender and submit, then help them if they want it. But few would be left to help, if I was in charge.

lazybones32

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Your right.

The only way to destroy ISIS is to destroy the entire planet.

Nuke the Whales!! Mother Earth is a b!tch anyway...

Timberrrrrrrr

lazybones32 wrote: »

No. I don't advocate beheading captives for propaganda purposes, outrageous ransom decrees to garner publicity or initiating prisoner transfers before executing them in a manner that will capture publicity.
Flowery language, love and acceptance won't stop these rag-heads from continuing their crusade so the only viable option left is to crush them. The end game of any war should be to stop your enemy from continuing their fight against you. Unless destabilising a region is part of the 'game-plan'...



A M.E. problem, yes, but one that most likely has it's roots in Western intervention/interference.

I don't recommend bombing only. I'd nearly go with a blitzkrieg-type offence. Crush them. When they capitulate, surrender and submit, then help them if they want it. But few would be left to help, if I was in charge.

So you are another who wants to stop the killing of innocent people by killing innocent people? Seriously? That's your answer? Your language in the second paragraph says it all really. Let us know when you are heading over to fight so we can wave goodbye.

TommyKnocker

Tugboats wrote: »

That would be fine if you could secure them in and make sure they don't come and go back to Europe. It would also help if reporters and aid workers stayed away. Nobody really cares what they do to the people of Iraq or Syria

Are you out of your mind? Lots of people care what these IS thugs do to the people of Iraq and Syria. Or are you of the mind that all people in Iraq and Syria are all terrorists or simply don't matter?

Tugboats

TommyKnocker wrote: »

Are you out of your mind? Lots of people care what these IS thugs do to the people of Iraq and Syria. Or are you of the mind that all people in Iraq and Syria are all terrorists or simply don't matter?

They don't really matter I'm just being honest same with those being killed in the Nigerian villages. Who has shown any concern or taken any meaningful action to help them? Please don't quote me some bland statement written by a government speech writer expressing fake outrage

Also meant to add that civilians are no better than the government. Where are the protests on the streets of Dublin and London over the current foreign invasion of Iraq and Syria that has left thousands slaughtered? People only "care" about dead muslims if its America doing the killing

liam24

Tugboats wrote: »

They don't really matter I'm just being honest same with those being killed in the Nigerian villages. Who has shown any concern or taken any meaningful action to help them? Please don't quote me some bland statement written by a government speech writer expressing fake outrage

People care about the middle east because there's oil there. It really is that simple.

fedor.2.

liam24 wrote: »

This is an Irish forum, and 'we' had nothing to do with it.

Thats not going to protect us from what's coming. its only a matter of time before it hits our streets. The typical Irish approach, of staying quiet and hoping nobody notices us, will only work for so long.

liam24

fedor.2. wrote: »

Thats not going to protect us from what's coming. its only a matter of time before it hits our streets. The typical Irish approach, of staying quiet and hoping nobody notices us, will only work for so long.

I think you overestimate your importance.

Nobody in the middle east will pay the slightest attention to anybody in the west if the west stops killing them.

evo2000

floggg wrote: »

We have had multiple genocides killing over 1 million people in the last 100 years, one of which was done with ****ing machetes, and this is a new low?

Are you attempting to justify it then? are you saying its ok to burn people alive because people have been killed with machetes ? im failing to see the point of that post!

liam24

evo2000 wrote: »

Are you attempting to justify it then? are you saying its ok to burn people alive because people have been killed with machetes ? im failing to see the point of that post!

The point is that this is not a new low. It's a low, but worse things have been done. The only reason you think it's a new low is that it's been so hyped by the media, because there's a certain contingent of the media and the military-industrial complex in the Western world that want to keep their weapons industry ticking over by bombing Arabs. Try thinking for yourself for once.

Skylinehead

evo2000 wrote: »

im failing to see the point of that post!

Obviously an attack on the hyperbole. Not the same as justifying ISIS - in fact, more hyperbole!

end of the road

liam24 wrote: »

This is an Irish forum, and 'we' had nothing to do with it.

yet your happy to come on here just to post that pointless statement

evo2000

liam24 wrote: »

The point is that this is not a new low. It's a low, but worse things have been done. The only reason you think it's a new low is that it's been so hyped by the media, because there's a certain contingent of the media and the military-industrial complex in the Western world that want to keep their weapons industry ticking over by bombing Arabs. Try thinking for yourself for once.

Sorry ill try and take someone being burnt alive as normal from now on something along the lines of "ah its grand sur millions have been killed with machetes before"

How about you take your own advice and try thinking full stop, obviously there has been worse, take for example Hiroshima but i was speaking loosely when i said it that.. its just a bad thing to see happen in this day and age i think most people caught onto the jist of what i was saying!

liam24

evo2000 wrote: »

Sorry ill try and take someone being burnt alive as normal from now on something along the lines of "ah its grand sur millions have been killed with machetes before"

How about you take your own advice and try thinking full stop, obviously there has been worse, take for example Hiroshima but i was speaking loosely when i said it that.. its just a bad thing to see happen in this day and age i think most people caught onto the jist of what i was saying!

It's a very bad thing. Go onto Documenting Reality and you'll find a new video of somebody being burned alive every week. That doesn't explain why you're using it to justify the crazed political agenda of bombing somebody else's country, and only this country in particular.

Harry Palmr

Like I said elsewhere the Arab Spring is actually a Nuclear Winter. I used to think toppling despots was a Good Thing, I was wrong - its those dictators that keep the show on the road as bad as the show usually was if you happened to live in said state (that said I imagine even the marginalised and oppressed would prefer some sort of stability - to be able to turn on a tap or visit the market) it was also better for the rest of us. A government is someone you can talk to, negotiate with, random chaos suits only the dogmatic religious or just stupid young men who think they like to fight.

Wurzelbert

floggg wrote: »

We have had multiple genocides killing over 1 million people in the last 100 years, one of which was done with ****ing machetes, and this is a new low?

does it really matter whether it’s a new low or an old one? just being a low is enough to qualify here...

end of the road

Tugboats wrote: »

They don't really matter same with those being killed in the Nigerian villages.

yeah, they may not matter to some, but many do give a ****, even if they can't do anything

Tugboats wrote: »

I'm just being honest

bully for you

Tugboats wrote: »

Who has shown any concern or taken any meaningful action to help them?

many have shown concern. i'm sure some have gone out to these countries to help.

Tugboats wrote: »

Please don't quote me some bland statement written by a government speech writer expressing fake outrage

what "bland statement written by a government speech writer" . what "fake outrage"

Tugboats wrote: »

Also meant to add that civilians are no better than the government.

yeah. its the fault of syrians their nutjob government is slaughtering them left right and centre. and thats unless isis don't get them.

Tugboats wrote: »

Where are the protests on the streets of Dublin and London over the current foreign invasion of Iraq and Syria that has left thousands slaughtered?

is nobody protesting? well, i'd imagine its a case of people see this as america and britain being forced to clean up their own mess, rightly or wrongly

Tugboats wrote: »

People only "care" about dead muslims if its America doing the killing

do they? everybody? well, maybe its because its america and britain who have created the situation where extremist nutjobs have been able to get in to a position where they can slaughter their own left right and centre.

Tugboats

Fox news have decided to show the video in full. Are they the only one to do it?

ireland.man

Tugboats wrote: »

Fox news have decided to show the video in full. Are they the only one to do it?

What do you care? You've already said you don't care what happens to ISIS victims in the Middle East.

I assume you're the greatest troll on Boards, or actually a left-winger doing damage to the other side!

Tugboats

end of the road wrote: »

yeah, they may not matter to some, but many do give a ****, even if they can't do anything



bully for you



many have shown concern. i'm sure some have gone out to these countries to help.



what "bland statement written by a government speech writer" . what "fake outrage"



yeah. its the fault of syrians their nutjob government is slaughtering them left right and centre. and thats unless isis don't get them.



is nobody protesting? well, i'd imagine its a case of people see this as america and britain being forced to clean up their own mess, rightly or wrongly



do they? everybody? well, maybe its because its america and britain who have created the situation where extremist nutjobs have been able to get in to a position where they can slaughter their own left right and centre.

Your really believe that people arent protesting about the slaughter of people in Syria because they see it as Americas mess?