Every accomplishment starts with a decision to try

annapr

Firedance wrote: »

ah here! its only 10K, they won't be hanging around toooooo long and under no circumstances are they to eat my PB muffin!!!!

well the way you were talking earlier we expected to be there til midnight

Firedance

Friday 4th September rest day but on a running related note I finally went to the GP to see if I might have exercise induced asthma, new gp so no clue of her back ground etc, turns out she's a runner and she as asthma :pac: anyway, she ran some tests and my lung function is normal as expected but she's positive based on the descriptions of my symptoms, the wheezing/coughing etc aggravated by the cold (or humid) weather that I do have Asthma so, she's given me a prescription for ventolin and some diary sheets to keep a record and a peak flow meter to measure my lung capacity before and after run/inhaler. Am not going to chance taking it before the race tomorrow so if its damp I'm screwed but hopefully will see a benefit in the coming months - is ventolin an PED?!

tang1

Best of luck tomorrow FD, not on about the football, up Mayo.

FBOT01

Best of Luck tomorrow.....ENJOY!!

Firedance

tang1 wrote: »

Best of luck tomorrow FD, not on about the football, up Mayo.

Thanks Tang and

FBOT01 wrote: »

Best of Luck tomorrow.....ENJOY!!

lol will try M, thanks

Dubgal72

Best of luck, see you there

Tom Joad

Best of luck - hope it all goes to plan for you!

Pacing Mule

Good luck today

Murph_D

Run well, see you there.

laura_ac3

Good luck!!

FBOT01

How did it go?

Firedance

Saturday 5th September, Blessington Lakes 10K 54.06

while I’m sorely disappointed to be nowhere near the 52:xx I was hoping for today I'll take the PB (5 seconds :rolleyes:) and a few positives from todays race. Firstly, no foot pain, at all, zilch. Body felt very good and the legs were raring to go, the breathing held me back as every time I tried to push on I got a pain in my chest & coughing ensued. So, lots more work to be done and hopefully I'll start to see an improvement in that area in the coming weeks once I get started on the inhaler, and some more specific 5k pace work. I'm still going to do Rathfarnham 5K and see where I am at that point followed by Longwood in October. Well done to Lake Shore Striders, this is a super race, lovely course, very well marshaled. The only problem today is there are no chip times leaving everyone wondering what might have been....technical difficulities.

I took some advice on pacing (thanks N) so the plan was to look at the watch at 1K and pretty much run the rest by effort, I didn't quite do that tho and when I glanced at one stage and saw a pace far worse than I thought I was at my head inevitably gave up, I had a word with myself and pushed on then not looking at the watch at all again and just ran as fast as I was able, on the finish stretch someone called out 53:38 and I realised I might get a sub 54 so belted down the straight. So I still need to sort out the mental demons too.
The most important thing about today however was the RACE SUPPORT TEAM consisting of aquinn and annapr, they were marvelous and aquinn provided fantastic post race flapjacks, thank you again girls

Massive well done to bungy girl who pipped MurphD to the post! Well done too D on a great race and chickey who took a smashing sub 50 pb on her way to half marathon greatness

I’m outtta here to spend some quality auntie time and watch the Dubs do a better job today than I did

Firedance

FBOT01 wrote: »

How did it go?

it didn't

Dubgal72

Very similar experience to mine today! Well done anyway It's a deceptively tricky course. Sorry didn't get to chat after the race...and I have just realised I missed out on the flapjacks!!! :mad:

Hopefully getting the chest issues sorted will bring you forward even more.

chickey2

Well done on a pb! Once you start that inhaler there'll be no stopping you!

nop98

Well done on the PB, FD! From the various reports, it doesn't sound like an easy course so well done. Glad to hear no niggles either (in legs/feet I mean).

tang1

Well done today FD, a PB is a PB and should be celebrated. Plenty more to come off that to, up the Dubs!!!

Firedance

tang1 wrote: »

Well done today FD, a PB is a PB and should be celebrated. Plenty more to come off that to, up the Dubs!!!

OMG! did you fall & hit your head thanks tang (on both counts!!) its looking a lot cleaner today but we need to push on now & bring it home....

Firedance

Watching a dubs game, in my own house, with a room of Sligo supporters is the most unpleasant experience ever

tang1

Well done, dream final really.

Firedance

obviously overjoyed we won but even more overjoyed my visitors were put firmly in their place #ohsorude

Greenmachine

Well Done.

tang1

Firedance wrote: »

followed by Longwood in October.

If you need a pacer for this let me know, seriously.

Firedance

tang1 wrote: »

If you need a pacer for this let me know, seriously.

Thanks tang! I might take you up on that

FBOT01

Firedance wrote: »

Thanks tang! I might take you up on that

Yeah but are you prepared to wait for him.....

Good days work today. Well done on the PB and more importantly on not throwing the ABD supporters out of your house

Could you imagine supporting Meath in anything as that effectively what they were doing by supporting Mayo

yaboya1

Well done on the pb.

Firedance wrote: »

Watching a dubs game, in my own house, with a room of Sligo supporters is the most unpleasant experience ever

At least they knew how to react when the team they were supporting got hammered. They're quite used to that themselves.

Firedance

FBOT01 wrote: »

Yeah but are you prepared to wait for him.....

Good days work today. Well done on the PB and more importantly on not throwing the ABD supporters out of your house

Could you imagine supporting Meath in anything as that effectively what they were doing by supporting Mayo

us dubs have more manners than that!!! still can't quite believe it.... roll on the end of today

yaboya1 wrote: »

Well done on the pb.


At least they knew how to react when the team they were supporting got hammered. They're quite used to that themselves.

exactly! I wouldn't mind if they were actually from Mayo - they then went on to tell me in no uncertain terms they'd be supporting Kerry in the final..... thankfully they're not my inlaws

Firedance

Sunday 6th September 3.33m @ 10:18 - a little fast for a recovery run but again the legs were feeling good today and I needed a bit of a shake out to set me up for the day which in the absence of my parents is going to be bittersweet. A chill in the air again this morning, hopefully the sun will make an appearance later

up the dubs!

let it go

Firedance

this is not running related in any way! Godmother Selfie!

Bungy Girl

Firedance wrote: »

this is not running related in any way!

Oh she is a dote! Hope you all had a lovely day. You look fab, gorgeous dress!

annapr

She's gorgeous and you looked great too looks like she was after your phone

HelenAnne

Lovely baby!
Also, I see from your photo that you were in the MurphD / Bungy Girl group I was talking to on Saturday (I was in a green jacket). Sorry for not saying hello, didn't know it was you!

aquinn

Love the photo, you look fantastic and she's as cute. I hope you all had a great day.

Firedance

Bungy Girl wrote: »

Oh she is a dote! Hope you all had a lovely day. You look fab, gorgeous dress!

annapr wrote: »

She's gorgeous and you looked great too looks like she was after your phone

thank you ladies she is a total dote, even when screaming the house down at 3am :eek:

HelenAnne wrote: »

Lovely baby!
Also, I see from your photo that you were in the MurphD / Bungy Girl group I was talking to on Saturday (I was in a green jacket). Sorry for not saying hello, didn't know it was you!

Yes! that was me, I didn't realise it was you until after you were gone, well done on your fantastic race!

aquinn wrote: »

Love the photo, you look fantastic and she's as cute. I hope you all had a great day.

thanks A, super day, perfect goddaughter

Firedance

Monday 7th September 4 mile walk with the poor tortured dog who does not know if he's coming or going, who are all these people in MY house??! Went to St Catherines Park where was so peaceful and quiet I could actually hear the leaves falling from the trees.... bliss.

6.5 miles @10:14, my first ventolin aided run - crikey I can't quite believe the difference even on on an easy run like this. Obviously I was still out of breath but was able to take lovely long inhales & exhales instead of the short fast huffing and puffing I do. Loved this run, legs felt great if a smidge tired, lungs felt super, day off work, sun shining zippity doo dah zippity day

Dubgal72

Too gorgeous, the pair of ye Great result too from the ventolin!

Firedance

based on a few conversations recently I've gone back to look at my paces, specifically I suppose my easy pace which I'm possibly constantly running a little on the fast side. There are 2 calculators used regularly here, McMillan and Jack Daniels. Based on Saturdays 10K time, these give me quite different results, I've also thrown Clearliers calculator from the DCM graduates thread into the mix too. I am going to train by HR again for the coming months so have included some calculations for that too. Here's what I get.

type of run McMillan pace Mc M % of HR JD pace jd % of HR Clearliers HR table

Easy 9:33-10:30 60-85% (111-157) 10:35-11:11 65-70% (120-130) 129-149
Long 9:36-10:51 60-85% (111-157) not listed
Recovery 10:35-11:24 60-70% (111-130) not listed <140
Tempo intervals (8-15 mins) 8:27-8:46 87-92% (161-170) 8:51 88-92% (163-170)
Tempo Run (10-40 mins) 8:35-8:53 85-90% (157-166) not listed 149-168
Steady (25-90 mins) 8:56-9:20 83-87% (153-161)
Marathon not listed 9:26 80-90% (148-166) 146-162

Its more than a little confusing... just taking easy runs, the 3 calculators give different highest HR% ranging from 130-157, so which one is right? Oddly the faster the run the closer the calculators are together.

Does anyone use any other form of calculation? I think I will take out McMillan altogether as the ranges are very wide and just work between JD & Clearliers figures. When you're training for shorter stuff does easy pace matter quite as much as when you're training for marathon/half marathon? or are the negative effect exactly the same?
The plan for the next few weeks contains one speed session (400's/800's), one steady or tempo run and the rest I'm assuming are easy pace.

Bungy Girl

That is quite a difference! Can't help I'm afraid, I use the JD/vDot numbers as a guideline for long runs but tend to rely on perceived effort as most of my runs would be off road. When I do a run on path or tarmac the pace usually ends up faster than the recommended range. So I ignore it .

Sorry, I am no help, other than to say there's clearly more than one right answer - which are you more comfortable with using, HR or pace ? I'd imagine trying to keep both in check would drive you nuts, no ?

Firedance

Bungy Girl wrote: »

That is quite a difference! Can't help I'm afraid, I use the JD/vDot numbers as a guideline for long runs but tend to rely on perceived effort as most of my runs would be off road. When I do a run on path or tarmac the pace usually ends up faster than the recommended range. So I ignore it .

Sorry, I am no help, other than to say there's clearly more than one right answer - which are you more comfortable with using, HR or pace ? I'd imagine trying to keep both in check would drive you nuts, no ?

:D seems to work for you though!!

am happy to use HR but the differences in range in that too are considerable so just want to find out which one is right or how best to find that out.

Bungy Girl

I think the Hadd article (long, but worth reading) might offer some assistance. I know I've seen a link to it in various threads. Yaboya might be the person to ask ?

chickey2

Can't really see that table as I'm on my phone but I've noticed some HR tables vary as some use your %of max HR while others use %HR reserve (which takes into account your resting HR). That might explain the differences.

menoscemo

Bungy Girl wrote: »

I think the Hadd article (long, but worth reading) might offer some assistance. I know I've seen a link to it in various threads. Yaboya might be the person to ask ?

Hadd makes it nice and simple.
He gets you to pick a HR about 50 BPM below your max and you do all your easy/recovery runs at that HR.
As your fitness improves you will start running faster at that HR and will also notice that you don't have to slow down throughout your run to keep the HR down.
Basically you have to just display HR on your watch and stick to it rigidly (+ or - a few BPM as you go up/down hills etc). It's a bit tedious but if you are doing a mixture of pace runs and sessions, it's not a bad rule to follow for your easy/recovery runs.

Firedance

Bungy Girl wrote: »

I think the Hadd article (long, but worth reading) might offer some assistance. I know I've seen a link to it in various threads. Yaboya might be the person to ask ?

menoscemo wrote: »

Hadd makes it nice and simple.
He gets you to pick a HR about 50 BPM below your max and you do all your easy/recovery runs at that HR.
As your fitness improves you will start running faster at that HR and will also notice that you don't have to slow down throughout your run to keep the HR down.
Basically you have to just display HR on your watch and stick to it rigidly (+ or - a few BPM as you go up/down hills etc). It's a bit tedious but if you are doing a mixture of pace runs and sessions, it's not a bad rule to follow for your easy/recovery runs.

thank you both , am reading through Hadd now, certainly lots of detail in his article, interestingly my max - 50 is 135 which is doable with some monitoring, I think my avg HR on easy runs currently comes in around 139.

menoscemo

Firedance wrote: »

thank you both , am reading through Hadd now, certainly lots of detail in his article, interestingly my max - 50 is 135 which is doable with some monitoring, I think my avg HR on easy runs currently comes in around 139.

That sounds good, but bear in mind Hadd wants your HR to be 135 or less at all times, so you average would normally be a little below that (first mile or two takes a while to build up to 135).
So if your 1st mile is 120 and you last mile is 150 your average would be 135 but that's not what he wants.
It can be difficult to keep running at that low a HR towards the end of a run because even though your pace might not go down your HR will normally go up (cardiac drift). But by continuing to do the runs as he prescribes you will begin to eliminate cardiac drift and you endurance will improve.

FWIW I'd say there is no harm in you doing your easy at Max HR minus 45 (i.e. 140) if 135 is too hard.

Firedance

menoscemo wrote: »

That sounds good, but bear in mind Hadd wants your HR to be 135 or less at all times, so you average would normally be a little below that (first mile or two takes a while to build up to 135).
So if your 1st mile is 120 and you last mile is 150 your average would be 135 but that's not what he wants.
It can be difficult to keep running at that low a HR towards the end of a run because even though your pace might not go down your HR will normally go up (cardiac drift). But by continuing to do the runs as he prescribes you will begin to eliminate cardiac drift and you endurance will improve.

FWIW I'd say there is no harm in you doing your easy at Max HR minus 45 (i.e. 140) if 135 is too hard.

yes true, so he's saying it should be 135 or lower at all times, so in the beginning I'll actually need to decrease my pace as the run goes on to keep the HR right, is that the right? (although 140 would be easier to manage).

menoscemo

Firedance wrote: »

yes true, so he's saying it should be 135 or lower at all times, so in the beginning I'll actually need to decrease my pace as the run goes on to keep the HR right, is that the right? (although 140 would be easier to manage).

Yep, you've got it.

Firedance

Tuesday 8th September 6 x 400 @ 5k pace with 3 min recoveries. Headed up to the bypass for this solo as the club sessions are getting longer as they get closer to the marathon. Turned the watch to KM(!) so I could properly measure out 400m. Also kept the warm up and cool down HR to below 140 (although thought I was keeping it below 135 till I saw the stats). Garmin connect kindly converted everything back to miles when I uploaded it

warm up 2.15 miles @ 11.20, avg HR 129 (122, 130, 132, 134) max HR 139

rep 1, pace 7:57, fast but not flat out, (measuring distance) - maxHR 168
rep 2, pace 7.11, a smidge fast with uphill drag - max HR 177
rep 3, pace 7:04, way to fast! max HR 173
rep 4, pace 7.20, better max HR 174
rep 5, pace 7.24, max HR 172
rep 6 pace 7.27, max HR 174 - was feeling the earlier reps by now

cool down, 1.54 miles @ 11.35 avg hr 133 (133, 134, 132) max hr 140

found keeping the HR low on the warm up tough enough as the run went on but managed it and even though the pace is ridiculously slow I need to stick with this for a while & be consistent. The speed part was very enjoyable but body was feeling it towards the lasts couple of reps.

I didnt take the inhaler before I left because I want to measure next weeks session against this: no inhaler V inhaler. Plenty of coughing & wheezing at the end of each rep this eve! Also too cold to be out in a singlet while jogging/walking recoveries...

annapr

Good going on the session FD. Interesting discussion re. your paces... should make a difference to race performance if you nail that.

Firedance

annapr wrote: »

Good going on the session FD. Interesting discussion re. your paces... should make a difference to race performance if you nail that.

yeah I'm still working my way through the Hadd article, sorry I hadn't read it before this but better later than never! hopefully it won't take too long for my paces to increase at the lower HR.

Greenmachine

I am guessing the Garmin comes into it's won, for repeat vs phone apps. Seems my phone normally takes a few hundred meters to kick in. Without or a track one might resort to a tape measure and a stopwatch no?