Aer Lingus Livery discussion

billie1b

This thread grew from a debate about EI-LAX having an incident in ORD and the wear and tear on her (16 yrs old) This then lead to a discussion on how the livery is ageing and whether or not it needs revamp/rebrand/refresh etc

Bendihorse wrote: »

OT but looking at the linked picture of the Aerlingus plane in question at Dublin Airport in the glistening sun, they really need to update their livery.

Ah she's 16 years old this April, gonna be a bit of wear and tear on her

Tenger

Bendihorse wrote: »

OT but looking at the linked picture of the Aerlingus plane in question at Dublin Airport in the glistening sun, they really need to update their livery.

WHy exactly? The livery is not dated yet, it still looks fresh and stands out very much so in foreign airports surrounded by white liveries.

billie1b wrote: »

Ah she's 16 years old this April, gonna be a bit of wear and tear on her

All normal for an A330. They are not like cars that get dodgy after 10 years.
Modern commercial aircraft are designed and built to be active 20-30 years after construction. They get daily checks, monthly checks and annual disassembly checks. On top of that most major components are checked on a hourly/ flights operated basis.

billie1b

Tenger wrote: »

WHy exactly? The livery is not dated yet, it still looks fresh and stands out very much so in foreign airports surrounded by white liveries.
All normal for an A330. They are not like cars that get dodgy after 10 years.
Modern commercial aircraft are designed and built to be active 20-30 years after construction. They get daily checks, monthly checks and annual disassembly checks. On top of that most major components are checked on a hourly/ flights operated basis.

Thanks Ten, we know all that about the A checks, B checks etc etc. I was talking about the wear and tear look on the livery, her last paint job was 6 years ago I think, but she does look worn up close and personal, in other words, she's showing her age now

Bussywussy

billie1b wrote: »

Thanks Ten, we know all that about the A checks, B checks etc etc. I was talking about the wear and tear look on the livery, her last paint job was 6 years ago I think, but she does look worn up close and personal, in other words, she's showing her age now

LAX was painted very recently.There is no B checks.

Bendihorse

billie1b wrote: »

Thanks Ten, we know all that about the A checks, B checks etc etc. I was talking about the wear and tear look on the livery, her last paint job was 6 years ago I think, but she does look worn up close and personal, in other words, she's showing her age now

I feel it's dated stylistically & needs a revamp, for example the way the green and blue line along the side stop dead short of the door. The whole Aerlingus brand could do with updating to be honest...
I guess it's not a priority for them at the moment but just thought that when I saw it.

sully2010

Bendihorse wrote: »

I feel it's dated stylistically & needs a revamp, for example the way the green and blue line along the side stop dead short of the door. The whole Aerlingus brand could do with updating to be honest...
I guess it's not a priority for them at the moment but just thought that when I saw it.

As bussywussy stated LAX has fresh paint and it looks stunning to me.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/eigjb/15807823944/

I have a feeling any updated livery they attempt will end up bad, look at Iberias new livery.

A refinement of the cheatline that stops before the door would improve it though.

LXFlyer

Bendihorse wrote: »

I feel it's dated stylistically & needs a revamp, for example the way the green and blue line along the side stop dead short of the door. The whole Aerlingus brand could do with updating to be honest...
I guess it's not a priority for them at the moment but just thought that when I saw it.

Couldn't actually disagree more with this - the livery is very distinctive and stands out at any airport.


I don't see this as necessary at all.

gordongekko

Bendihorse wrote: »

I feel it's dated stylistically & needs a revamp, for example the way the green and blue line along the side stop dead short of the door. The whole Aerlingus brand could do with updating to be honest...
I guess it's not a priority for them at the moment but just thought that when I saw it.

Is this a way or getting people to say " sure it's going to be painted in the ba colours soon enough"?

Razor44

I wonder if IAG do take over EI will they go to a euro white style paint job? To save money. Less colour etc etc.

Cookiemunster

Razor44 wrote: »

I wonder if IAG do take over EI will they go to a euro white style paint job? To save money. Less colour etc etc.

How would it save money? The whole plane still has to be painted.

L1011

Razor44 wrote: »

I wonder if IAG do take over EI will they go to a euro white style paint job? To save money. Less colour etc etc.

Unlikely, as it wouldn't save money in the first place and would have a huge impact on the brand

sully2010

I think something along the lines of this is all that is needed for a livery update. Maybe get rid of the blue line altogether.

billie1b

sully2010 wrote: »

I think something along the lines of this is all that is needed for a livery update. Maybe get rid of the blue line altogether.

If I had a choice i'd keep the blue line and extend it like you did, id then make the lighter shade of green match the main green of the fuselage, I think the light green around the windows looks tacky, always have, love the shamrock tail and rest of the livery though

Razor44

Aircraft paint doesnt cost re colour and mixing? i assumed it did, my bad

Comhrá

billie1b wrote: »

If I had a choice i'd keep the blue line and extend it like you did, id then make the lighter shade of green match the main green of the fuselage, I think the light green around the windows looks tacky, always have, love the shamrock tail and rest of the livery though

I think the current livery still looks great, unique and easy to spot in the distance at foreign airports, but I would love a 'refresh' while retaining the basic scheme largely as it is. Maybe a slightly re-styled shamrock on the tail and I do like that narrow blue cheatline but the colour scheme, I feel, does need a little bit of a new twist at this stage. Hope IAG (should they take over EI) leave the green & blue intact.

That new Iberia scheme is, imho, very bland and boring.

Strumms

The current EI livery was introduced in 1994 yet looks fresh and classy and stands out as others have pointed out and is certainly good for the brand recognition. I don't think a rebrand is necessary myself at this point.

arubex

Razor44 wrote: »

Aircraft paint doesnt cost re colour and mixing? i assumed it did, my bad

White paint isn't particularly ( any? ) cheaper than coloured paint, because it also uses a pigment. Titanium dioxide, extracted from sand.

White paint also has poorer opacity than other coloured paints, so requires more or thicker coats. So it can end-up more expensive per square metre.

The main advantage of Eurowhite is practical; reduced cost of application ( fewer masks etc ) and easier touching-up following repair or modification ( just slap on the white ). Also maintaining lower cabin temperatures.

Airbus also did a study which suggested that overall application of 'their' Matterhorn White made aircraft look wider and hence more comfy compared to a more traditionally-liveried scheme. It would be interesting to see an Aer Lingus A330 beside a Swiss one and assess if this is true.

Razor44

arubex wrote: »

White paint isn't particularly ( any? ) cheaper than coloured paint, because it also uses a pigment. Titanium dioxide, extracted from sand.

White paint also has poorer opacity than other coloured paints, so requires more or thicker coats. So it can end-up more expensive per square metre.

The main advantage of Eurowhite is practical; reduced cost of application ( fewer masks etc ) and easier touching-up following repair or modification ( just slap on the white ). Also maintaining lower cabin temperatures.

Airbus also did a study which suggested that overall application of 'their' Matterhorn White made aircraft look wider and hence more comfy compared to a more traditionally-liveried scheme. It would be interesting to see an Aer Lingus A330 beside a Swiss one and assess if this is true.

Thanks for the info arubex!

Tenger

arubex wrote: »

....
Airbus also did a study which suggested that overall application of 'their' Matterhorn White made aircraft look wider and hence more comfy compared to a more traditionally-liveried scheme. It would be interesting to see an Aer Lingus A330 beside a Swiss one and assess if this is true.

I have seen them on neighbouring gates and didn't notice any difference. Perhaps side by side on a hard stand it would be noticeable.

Bendihorse

Strumms wrote: »

The current EI livery was introduced in 1994 yet looks fresh and classy and stands out as others have pointed out and is certainly good for the brand recognition. I don't think a rebrand is necessary myself at this point.

1994? Were talking Wanes World and Forrest gump era... It needs a revamp! Doesn't mean it has to lose the distinctive green of the body (though i would change the shade). The font and the shamrock are outdated, as is the stripe on the windows, EI have been carrying that forward since they started. It's not like it was unique to Aerlingus so worth keeping, I think most airlines used it at some stage or another in bygone years.

Tenger

Bendihorse wrote: »

1994? Were talking Wanes World and Forrest gump era... It needs a revamp! Doesn't mean it has to lose the distinctive green of the body (though i would change the shade). The font and the shamrock are outdated, as is the stripe on the windows, EI have been carrying that forward since they started. It's not like it was unique to Aerlingus so worth keeping, I think most airlines used it at some stage or another in bygone years.

Just because its from 1994 doesn't mean it needs a revamp. It was a forward looking design at the time. Look at the blandness of the most recent livery revamps. Finnair and Iberia scream bland to me.
AA keep their metal livery so long it became retro (not that I'm advocating 40 years of the current livery)

It seems you want change for the sake of it. I agree that the cheatline should be extended. However most people forget that blue and green are the EI colours. (Male staff wear blue jackets) so it not as if it is out of place.

I don't see how the shamrock is "outdated". And changing this element would entail a huge cost to the airline. All stationary, signage, vehicles, web design would need to be remade.

Changing a corporate emblem is a huge decision, a livery adjustment not so much.

Bendihorse

Tenger wrote: »

Just because its from 1994 doesn't mean it needs a revamp. It was a forward looking design at the time. Look at the blandness of the most recent livery revamps. Finnair and Iberia scream bland to me.
AA keep their metal livery so long it became retro (not that I'm advocating 40 years of the current livery)

It seems you want change for the sake of it. I agree that the cheatline should be extended. However most people forget that blue and green are the EI colours. (Male staff wear blue jackets) so it not as if it is out of place.

I don't see how the shamrock is "outdated". And changing this element would entail a huge cost to the airline. All stationary, signage, vehicles, web design would need to be remade.

Changing a corporate emblem is a huge decision, a livery adjustment not so much.

Yes it would be a re-brand. The design was lazy day one IMO, but I'm coming from a design POV, so I probably see the bad bits more than some.

Tenger

Bendihorse wrote: »

Yes it would be a re-brand. The design was lazy day one IMO, but I'm coming from a design POV, so I probably see the bad bits more than some.

That explains your rationale. makes sense now. So I see where you are coming from with the "its needs a revamp" comments.
I have no big interest in design. I like what I like. (Recently had to endure 2 mates discussing the relative merits of flat design for phone displays)

What I dislike in recent aviation liveries is the reliance on the all white fuselage, the need to use billboard titles and the introduction of singles letters as an emblem. I am old fashioned in that I like the bold colours on the upper fuselage of KLM, Qatar and EI. They stand apart in large international airports. I look at it from a marketing and recognition POV. Royal Jordanian are a dark grey which is also very different.

Most airlines got white for the upper fuselage (like BA and Ryanair with their dark blue belly) or the dreaded ('Euro White') all white with titles behind cockpit, symbol on the tail (Air France, Iberia, Alitalia, SAS, LOT, Lufthansa, Swiss, Royal Brunei, United, Delta, Jetblue, Ethiopian, Emirates, JAL, Qantas, Icelandair etc etc)

As an aside what would you think of this dsign in the EI colours?
http://www.airliners.net/photo/BMI-British-Midland/Airbus-A319-131/2041605/&sid=e1402f6e77832f5ca320f3d5f651465b
Its the old bmi livery. I thought it looked fresh at the time. It would keep the green upper fuselage but add a bit of movement. Not sure how the shamrrock would be placed on the tail however

LXFlyer

Bendihorse wrote: »

Yes it would be a re-brand. The design was lazy day one IMO, but I'm coming from a design POV, so I probably see the bad bits more than some.

Yes but design/branding people aren't always right about these kind of things - business history is littered with unnecessary rebrandings that have then gone pear shaped.


Sometimes, quite frankly, it isn't necessary.


My own opinion is that the "fresh shamrock" does not need a "refresh".

goingnowhere

Nothing wrong with EI-LAX flown her recently, old bird but perfectly in line with industry norms

Livery is fine, EI has done some subtle changes in recent years, the slanted Shamrock style is more obvious now.

Where they do need an update is the uniform, it is outdated and looks pretty poor compared to BA or the Gulf carriers. The jumper thing never worked, looks nasty.

That said little or no impact the bottom line by staying with current

The problem as I see with the EI colour scheme is that when it gets worn and fades it looks grim

Aer Lingus Airbus A330-302 EI-EDY by Shamrock147, on Flickr

versus when its fresh it looks great

Aer Lingus Airbus A320-214 EI-DEH by Shamrock147, on Flickr

Personally I agree it needs an update a subtle one like the KLM one

KLM new livery by nxgphotos, on Flickr

v old

KLM Royal Dutch Airlines - PH-BPB - Boeing 737-4Y0 by Oscar von Bonsdorff, on Flickr

It wouldn't take much and it shouldn't upset many.

sully2010

Deleted User wrote: »

The problem as I see with the EI colour scheme is that when it gets worn and fades it looks grim

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versus when its fresh it looks great

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Personally I agree it needs an update a subtle one like the KLM one

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v old

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It wouldn't take much and it shouldn't upset many.

It does fade over time but if you look at the livery in bright sunlight compared to a cloudy day they look like 2 different shades of green, the sunny day being much brighter like the first pic and the second being the cloudy day where it seems much darker.

A simple tweak like they did with KLM would look really good or something like the BMI that Tenger pointed out could also come out very well and modernise it. As for the Shamrock on the tail, how can you modernise what is already a slick looking internationally recognised logo?

You can they already did, but as KLM have done, you could just do nothing with the tail at all.

sully2010

Im not sure Willie Walsh cares too much for liveries either If IAG gets EI, Iberia for one and how long was this hideous scheme going for. I know it was to advertise the website but still.

Tenger

sully2010 wrote: »

Im not sure Willie Walsh cares too much for liveries either If IAG gets EI, Iberia for one and how long was this hideous scheme going for. I know it was to advertise the website but still.
......

By all acounts he was not a fan of the Shamrock brand. Definitely his #2 (Seamus?) Kearney felt that it "held back the company to its flag carrier history"

sully2010

Tenger wrote: »

By all acounts he was not a fan of the Shamrock brand. Definitely his #2 (Seamus?) Kearney felt that it "held back the company to its flag carrier history"

What a ridiculous statement. Looks like any update will be euro white so, get rid of the flag carrier history and join the IAG family.

tricky D

I've been unfortunate to be exposed to a good few brand redesigns over the years. While some have been good ideas, more have been simply cringeworthy.

Tenger wrote: »

(Recently had to endure 2 mates discussing the relative merits of flat design for phone displays)

The flat design should be found out soon enough for the fad it is imho, hopefully.

lxflyer wrote: »

Yes but design/branding people aren't always right about these kind of things - business history is littered with unnecessary rebrandings that have then gone pear shaped.

Sometimes, quite frankly, it isn't necessary.

More than sometimes, rebrands are perceived by those seeking them as a magic wand that'll make things better by solving some thing which isn't really a problem.

sully2010 wrote: »

Im not sure Willie Walsh cares too much for liveries either If IAG gets EI, Iberia for one and how long was this hideous scheme going for. I know it was to advertise the website but still.

That travesty occurred in the middle of the dot com it or stick an e in front of it (mainly for tech firms) fad around the late ninties.

Seamus Kearney has a point on the legacy flag carrier to an extent, but the shamrock is a strong visual motif that extends beyond the mere visual aspect. It would be unwise to drop it and lose the equity value which is kind of why they just italicised the shamrock 20 or so years ago after much thought on the inferior alternatives.

Calina

I remember the 1994 rebranding exercise. I wasn't impressed then.

TBH, I preferred the previous branding. I didn't like the introduction of the leaning shamrock (remember hearing someone call it drunken) and I thought the colours were a bit faded. I also do not like the chosen font. IIRC, it cost quite a lot of money for what wasn't really a great change compared to what it was replacing.

I didn't like the yellow dot business a few years back (I seem to remember red and yellow featuring at the time).

Aer Lingus had at least one white hire-in last summer or the summer before, the social jet with the current shamrock in green on the tale, and the company name on the side. Compared to the standard branding, that really wasn't all that attractive either.

Tail branding, I prefer the shamrock on the retrojet although the company name is a bit too easy to miss. I may be a tad on the nostalgic side, but I prefer that livery to the current one (too).

I do think the current colours lose their sheen and that the livery is not forgiving of very much weathering.

On a related note, the fact that said livery is now over 20 years old is mildly depressing in the context of my own life. Arghh. Even here I am not safe from being reminded I'm aging.

arubex

Virgin Atlantic are probably the worst offenders for 'rebranding'; what have they had now, six livery variations? All of which seem to have served to confuse passengers, as I overheard at Gatwick once:

"Why is theirs silver and ours is just white? Is theirs a better plane?"

fr336

Tenger wrote: »

By all acounts he was not a fan of the Shamrock brand. Definitely his #2 (Seamus?) Kearney felt that it "held back the company to its flag carrier history"

Haha now there's a man with his finger on the pulse!! Held back...ha...that brand has so much value to us outsiders and what's wrong with EI still being the "flag carrier" even if that's not technically the case? What is EI without the Shamrock brand and all the connotations of that? An airline that used to be a flag carrier who did away with that and is now a halfway house between competing with FR and co (at least locally) by trimming frills but still with fairly hefty fares in the main? Without the EI brand, an almost always Irish cabin crew etc, why would I bother paying more for EI? It's not all rainbows over there in terms of customer service either, just as FR isn't always hell. Sorry but as a Brit with Irish heritage the Irish flag carrier thing (even if it's not) is what sets EI apart for me.

sully2010

Saw people on twitter and Anet suggesting EI should use the rugby livery as their regular livery.

I wouldn't be mad about it.

Tenger

sully2010 wrote: »

Saw people on twitter and Anet suggesting EI should use the rugby livery as their regular livery.

Erm, NO!

fr336

It does look more modern

LXFlyer

Definitely not - it's great as a one off though!

Razor44

Absolutely not! I hope WW and IAG don't F**K up a classic livery when EI joins AIG.

billie1b

There's too much dark green on it, its rank

fr336

God to think that plane was a virgin not so long ago, now it's a hooker