Most demanding positions on the hurling field?

VentureF

A friend is taking a hurling team for fitness training and intends to integrate some "position specific" requirements.

So far there are statistics to support that mid-fielders are the most active when it comes to jogging, running and sprinting and therefore require slightly higher training volume & intensity.

Would anyone like to give an educated guess on what other numbers (other than midfield 8/9) are most active on the field?

If you had to pick two or three other numbers?

Realt Dearg Sec

VentureF wrote: »

A friend is taking a hurling team for fitness training and intends to integrate some "position specific" requirements.

So far there are statistics to support that mid-fielders are the most active when it comes to jogging, running and sprinting and therefore require slightly higher training volume & intensity.

Would anyone like to give an educated guess on what other numbers (other than midfield 8/9) are most active on the field?

If you had to pick two or three other numbers?

I don't know statistically, but if I was to guess I'd say 5 and 7 are the next most active. Wing back is a highly demanding position, followed by wing forward. But at least a wing forward can dictate to some extent when the running will happen. Playing wing forward I always liked to wait till the back is out of breath and then catch him off guard. Obviously as a back that's an issue you have to deal with and be ready no matter how tired you are, you don't get to choose your breaks.

On the other hand, skill wise I think the wing forward has a lot more to do, winning ball instead of being able to bat down, scoring instead of clearing, etc. But in pure fitness terms, after midfield I'd say wing backs. The wings are also almost as bad for physical stuff as the centres, but with much more movement off the ball. Tough position, whether back or forward.

Fireball07

I'd say it really depends on the individual and the role they're being asked to play. Midfield is an obvious one anyway, but some teams ask half-forwards or corner-forwards to drop deep and they might have a bigger role then. For example, when Seamus Hickey was named in the forwards for Limerick, he lined out there for puck-outs but did most of his work around the half-back line and was constantly running.

VentureF

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

I don't know statistically, but if I was to guess I'd say 5 and 7 are the next most active. Wing back is a highly demanding position, followed by wing forward. But at least a wing forward can dictate to some extent when the running will happen. Playing wing forward I always liked to wait till the back is out of breath and then catch him off guard. Obviously as a back that's an issue you have to deal with and be ready no matter how tired you are, you don't get to choose your breaks.

On the other hand, skill wise I think the wing forward has a lot more to do, winning ball instead of being able to bat down, scoring instead of clearing, etc. But in pure fitness terms, after midfield I'd say wing backs. The wings are also almost as bad for physical stuff as the centres, but with much more movement off the ball. Tough position, whether back or forward.

Thanks, very informative and credible.

What I found interesting there was that you covered the work of the wing back/forwards and the associated demands and I assume it implies then that 6 and 11 (half back/forward) may be slightly less active even though they're actually closer to the midfielders than the wings are?

You also mentioned about the wind backs getting out of breath, is this because they are a little heavier usually I wonder and might that mean they'd need even more fitness than the slightly trimmer forwards.

It's all in the name of specific training anyway rather than a 1 fits all solution.

Realt Dearg Sec

VentureF wrote: »

Thanks, very informative and credible.

What I found interesting there was that you covered the work of the wing back/forwards and the associated demands and I assume it implies then that 6 and 11 (half back/forward) may be slightly less active even though they're actually closer to the midfielders than the wings are?

You also mentioned about the wind backs getting out of breath, is this because they are a little heavier usually I wonder and might that mean they'd need even more fitness than the slightly trimmer forwards.

It's all in the name of specific training anyway rather than a 1 fits all solution.

I'd say 6 and 11 are in a serious battle for high ball and loose ball, relatively static (relatively, not absolutely). They are still very demanding positions but if have said it's (even) more about strength and repeated tackling, which takes it out of you in a different way.

Can't generalise about the condition the backs would be in, but in junior it's a persistent mistake selectors make to put fitter lads in the forwards. Other than the engines in the midfield, and ignoring that there's more to judge who you would put in what position than just relative fitness, I would definitely put your next fittest guys in wing back. More likely though is some lads have the little bit of niggle and the particular reading of forwards and how you stop their movements that a wing back needs. Find those lads, then make them sprint like they committed a crime over Christmas. They need fast reaction times and a great burst of speed that can be turned on very suddenly, and they need to be able to change direction without losing speed.

Hon the Dubs

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

I'd say 6 and 11 are in a serious battle for high ball and loose ball, relatively static (relatively, not absolutely). They are still very demanding positions but if have said it's (even) more about strength and repeated tackling, which takes it out of you in a different way.

Can't generalise about the condition the backs would be in, but in junior it's a persistent mistake selectors make to put fitter lads in the forwards. Other than the engines in the midfield, and ignoring that there's more to judge who you would put in what position than just relative fitness, I would definitely put your next fittest guys in wing back. More likely though is some lads have the little bit of niggle and the particular reading of forwards and how you stop their movements that a wing back needs. Find those lads, then make them sprint like they committed a crime over Christmas. They need fast reaction times and a great burst of speed that can be turned on very suddenly, and they need to be able to change direction without losing speed.

Personally with our team the number 11 would be given a free role to rome anywhere from midfield forward so a lot would be expected of him but agree completely with you re. the others

Realt Dearg Sec

Hon the Dubs wrote: »

Personally with our team the number 11 would be given a free role to rome anywhere from midfield forward so a lot would be expected of him but agree completely with you re. the others

Yeah that's the thing, a team will have particular tactics that require different things, or are tweaked to suit the players you have, their strengths and weaknesses, so it's hard to generalise (the old stereotype of the fat full back and full forward nearly never holds totally true, you might have a guy who knows full forward and maybe uses his pace to drag out the back and make space in front of goal instead of going 50/50). But in the non existent hypothetical where everyone pays their positions as if it were 1955, let's say.

You might also have a lad who has a great bit if pace on the ball and can shrug off tackles and field high ball. He'll be played in different ways than a lad who can clear up a dirty ball that goes loose and has a great strike but mighty be any use soloing. The same position in that situation would require very different approaches to getting fit, if paying to their relative strengths.

Realt Dearg Sec

(As an aside, I love the idea of a thread to generally discuss what the requirements of the positions are...corner forward is one that's completely misused at junior level, and I think there's big scores to be got if a manager can develop tactics to use a decent player there, but the temptation is always to put stronger players down the spine, or else is like they're being wasted. If you can't get a good cross field ball system going, then they probably ARE wasted in that situation. But again, the job of the corner forward seems to be misunderstood often times at my level)

keeponhurling

The referee, no question,

Needs to be everywhere , up with the play , and keep a record of who's giving him abuse

Needs to talk to umpires and linesmen

Realt Dearg Sec

Well in fitness terms I wouldn't have said the ref has a particularly hard job. Some of the big units you see reffing make it difficult for themselves. A little less butter on their spuds is all they need!

OP, just out of interest, what sort of position specific training was your friend thinking of? I think there's a lot to be said for tailoring training to suit positions, but general hurling fitness is fairly common across the field. It's one of those things that would probably only become obvious in a professional system, where you can imagine differences in positions becoming more exaggerated as training becomes more tailored. But since a player has to be adaptable to the skills and fitness of the player they are marking, it's difficult to see benefits in, say, bulking up hugely for one position, since that can hamper mobility and make you unsuited to marking a lot of people, not to mention being limited in your ability to move to other positions as a game progresses (especially if, say, a corner back is sent off and you have to shore up the defence)

Browney7

Would echo the sentiment in here. Midfield is the engine room and I feel you should have an attack and defense minded mIdfielder. Your corner backs and corner need to have pace. Your wingbacks need pace but need to cover their inside line and get forward the odd time.

Center back might need to cover behind his wingbacks a bit but I'd have the philosophy that the centre back must be pretty much always available to mind the middle and cut out runners through the middle. Full forward can be a fat bomber type with a good paw and leather the ball into him or he can be a speed merchant too. Wing forward is a desperate position particularly at junior level, has to win his ball, get belted, turn, get space and shoot or run towards goal and nearly always gets a) high pressured clearance from a wing back, b) a puck out landed on top of him or c) a big high ball from the full back eagerly bursting out of defence.

Realt Dearg Sec

Browney7 wrote: »

a big high ball from the full back eagerly bursting out of defence.

Which gets a big cheer, followed by immediate criticism of the forward for not "doing something with it" when it eventually drops out of the clouds!

VentureF

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

OP, just out of interest, what sort of position specific training was your friend thinking of?

Well for example he was considering the idea of increased volume/intensity on certain drills for midfielders vs halfs vs full etc. However we're not sure if this would be a good idea because although certain positions DO involve more activity, shouldn't they all be "primed" (fitness-wise) as much as possible anyway. So it's possible the only position specific requirements then are the "type" of drills maybe, not necessary the intensity?

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

But since a player has to be adaptable to the skills and fitness of the player they are marking, it's difficult to see benefits in, say, bulking up hugely for one position, since that can hamper mobility and make you unsuited to marking a lot of people, not to mention being limited in your ability to move to other positions as a game progresses (especially if, say, a corner back is sent off and you have to shore up the defence)

Well put.

Realt Dearg Sec

VentureF wrote: »

Well for example he was considering the idea of increased volume/intensity on certain drills for midfielders vs halfs vs full etc. However we're not sure if this would be a good idea because although certain positions DO involve more activity, shouldn't they all be "primed" (fitness-wise) as much as possible anyway. So it's possible the only position specific requirements then are the "type" of drills maybe, not necessary the intensity?

I follow you, in the sense that if you need your fittest players in midfield, still everyone should be doing the training to get as fit as possible. Personally I would say that you probably need more strength for a position like centre forward, where you are being tackled probably once a minute, and need more pace and ability to use and open up space if you are a corner forward. Differences like that would mean, given that teams have limited time to spend training, it might be worth developing position-specific drills (or at least, having people from particular positions spending more valuable training time emphasising one element of their game/fitness over another).

Couple of problems: the time it would take to explain different drills to different position groups might be wasted if you don't have enough trainers on hand. Also the player numbers for each position are quite low, so it would be difficult to organise meaningful drills given each position group might only have four, three, or two people. Also people need to know more than one position. Specialising too much would be a problem (and maybe exaggerate too much the differences that exist, it's fundamentally a simple game).

The plus side of that kind of thing (if you could overcome those problems and find a useful way of organising position specific drills) would be that lads would feel that the particular job of their position was being given time and emphasis. They might also develop a better rapport with the lads on their own line, and some cohesion in their play together as they'd be use to one another's habits in a fairly intensive way. This last point would only make sense if the position training was a small element in broader collective training where the units come back together and work together again.

Hmmm...can't help feeling I'm overcomplicating this as a result of watching too much American football over the winter.

nice_guy80

Best hurlers on the team need to be in the spine of the team - half backs, one at midfield, centre forward

specification for each position is becoming more prevalent at county training

Twoman Fullbackline

Definitely having played in a few postions, wing-back would be next most demanding fitness-wise to midfield, possibly even more so as you are at the mercy of your opposite number more so than in midfield I think. It is much easier playing wing-forward to wing-back in this regard as you can dictate a lot of the running. Playing on the wing you have a lot more ground to cover than if you are playing in the centre I found, particularly centre-back anyway. At 6 you need to hold the centre a lot more, I find it more of a reading-the-game position rather than a follow-your-man position.

Obviously if you find yourself in the full-forward or full-back lines there will be less running, but two things I found about corner-back is that a) pure pace is very handy, almost a necessity really b) you can find yourself doing a good bit of sharp turning as you "shadow" a player who has the ball and is essentially making the decisions where to run - I don't know enough about the fitness coaching etc but I always imagined there would be certain agility/turning techniques or routines that would be particularly useful in this position.

Shurimgreat

I always thought centre half back was a nightmare position to play in football and probably the same in hurling, if not worse. Long puck outs would usually land in an opponents half back line.

As well as that you have players coming from deep such as midfielders and the centre half back gets the brunt of that. And centre half forwards never stay in the one place for long but end up all over the field. So an incredible amount of stamina and fitness needed for a centre half back as well as a strong physical presence.

lizzyod

defo mid field

lizzyod

or maybe center forward as your making the best on the opposing team the center back

lizzyod

goals in actually a nightmare to play in tho