Reboot Ireland - Regional Meetings prior to full party launch

Chips Lovell

What do you mean by that?

seamus

Awful name. Just...ugh.

OK, so names don't have to be stuffy political names like "Progressive Democrats", but it should at least be words that mean something. Not an English prefix bolted onto an Irish word that doesn't really mean what they intend it to mean, and together mean absolutely nothing. Even an English word and and Irish word, like "Tosiagh New", would be better.

conorh91

Unfortunate choice of language

Chips Lovell

Yep. Was just going to post that last line too.

Muahahaha

despite them getting widely slagged I reckon Lucy and her group could very well hold the balance of power after the next election. FG+Labour number just don't stack up, FG and Lab are going to need extra numbers from somewhere if they're to form a govt....

6541

Where is the Mayo Meeting ?

The New King party?

Rí Nua?

Muahahaha

17 candidates confirmed so far, mix of a builder, accountants, business owners and hoteliers
http://renuaireland.com/#people

Quin_Dub

Some interesting answers to their "Top 5" questions..

Q :- Will you go into government with FG/FF/LAB/PbP/AAA/Others?

A :- We will have to have candidates elected first.
We will give very clear pledges and red lines to the electorate in advance of the election, these pledges will have real democratic force and we will govern with anyone who will commit to the people’s promises.

Q :- Will you go into Government with SF ?

A :- We believe in open politics. That means being open and transparent in every way. Sinn Fein fails to meet any standard of openness and transparency and on these fundamental grounds, we will not consider under any circumstance entering into a coalition agreement of any form.


Fairly clear there - Anybody but SF.

More then a bit disingenuous though on the Abortion question however.. Given the reasons why all the currently elected members of the party came to leave their existing parties...

Q :- What you'r stance on Abortion.

A :- Our party has an open position on Abortion.
In fact, we will be the only political party in Ireland and across Europe that has an open party position on Abortion.
The reason for this is very simple, we do not believe party politics in Ireland has a place for issues of conscience.
No real democratic party or democratic system, should interfere with an individual elected representative’s values on matters of conscience.
If this new party is successful in the next general election, and we are in a position to form part of a government coalition, our partners in government could make the legislation of abortion a condition for a programme for government to be agreed. Furthermore, there could even be an elected member of this new party who becomes Minister for Health who wishes to initiate abortion legislation in Ireland.
In both circumstances, there will be elected Members of this party that would neither support the legislation, nor their own party Minister for Health’s proposals.
That is not to say that in cabinet, party members would interfere with our Minister for Health’s conscientious position that they wish to initiate legislation for abortion in Ireland.
On the contrary, freedom of conscience cannot be selective, or used as cynical tool to detract or distract from very difficult decisions.
We could have elected members that would speak out and vote against our own Minister’s legislation because those are the principles our elected members stand for.

Chips Lovell

I think their fundamental problem is going to be trying to persuade people that they're more than just "Fine Gael But Even More Right Wing".

You can pepper the rhetoric all you want with words like "vision", "inventiveness" and "a new kind of politics", but once you start reading their policies it gets a little more difficult to disguise.

MouseTail

Someone quick off the mark.....

https://www.facebook.com/renuaireland

henryporter

Muahahaha wrote: »

17 candidates confirmed so far, mix of a builder, accountants, business owners and hoteliers
http://renuaireland.com/#people

What - no teachers?

Quin_Dub

MouseTail wrote: »

Someone quick off the mark.....

https://www.facebook.com/renuaireland

Ouch......

Can't see that page lasting long...

touts

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Ouch......

Can't see that page lasting long...

Indeed. That's got the smell of Leinster House's IP address all over it

mackerski

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Q :- What you'r stance on Abortion.

Ouch! Is that an accurate quote? Between this and the earlier imprisonment reference, it's painting a very amateurish picture. Perhaps I'm just old-fashioned - but whereas I might excuse an individual politician who can't spell or proofread, if an entire party can't get it together it's a bit unimpressive.

RainyDay

Muahahaha wrote: »

17 candidates confirmed so far, mix of a builder, accountants, business owners and hoteliers
http://renuaireland.com/#people

Can anyone actually read that page? White text on a pale grey background - are they actually trying to make it hard for people to read it? :mad:

touts

henryporter wrote: »

What - no teachers?

I don't think they are on speaking terms with the teachers

"Education

RENUA believes in pursuing the fundamental reform of our Education system as a priority. Citizens rather than trade unions must decide the future of our country.
"

Calina

touts wrote: »

I don't think they are on speaking terms with the teachers

"Education

RENUA believes in pursuing the fundamental reform of our Education system as a priority. Citizens rather than trade unions must decide the future of our country.
"

That's not an education policy, that's a politics policy.

touts

Looking at some of their policies:

Children

There is no greater moral and political issue than securing the future of children.

Clearly the abortion issue was a divisive one around the table. It's the shortest segement but I'd say was the longest discussion area.

Agriculture and Enterprise

Farming is at the heart of Ireland’s identity. RENUA believes that agriculture and small rural enterprise are the foundation of the regeneration of rural Ireland. Independent communities are only sustained by economic self sufficiency.

Semi-states

RENUA believes the appropriate role of the state is to build the good society and foster economic self reliance. The state should disengage from all economic activities that do not meet this criterion.

DeV's a happy happy man in his grave today. And apparently the state will disengage from all economic activities that does not make us economically self reliant. What does that mean for the multinationals so? Probably nothing but it's a bit of a head scratcher as to what the hell they mean by that.

Housing and Property

Home ownership is not a right but it should not become a privilege either. The ongoing failure to resolve the mortgage arrears is harming the psychological recovery of the Republic.

In a time of changing property trends the state shall endeavour to ensure by all practicable means that home ownership, be it via the private or public sector can be secured by the squeezed middle and the working poor.

Home ownership is not a right BUT the state shall endeavour to ensure home ownership? Is that not a contradiction?

ENTREPRENEURIALISM

RENUA believes in a society that encourages families, communities and businesses to embrace an ethic of enterprise and improvement. Self employment and entrepreneurship should be a matter of first choice rather than necessity.

Time to get those lazy kids back in the workforce.

WELFARE

A functioning state ensures all its citizens are afforded the means of existence and the possibility to secure a dignified purposeful life. We intend in welfare to build a state structure that marries compassion with responsibility. Those who are not self reliant will be imprisoned rather than released by a life on welfare.

There's a segment that needs to be read carefully two or three times. I'll bet it doesn't actually say what you first thought it said. Clearly the proof reading committee was tired by the time they got to that one.

"Environment

The progressive degradation of Ireland’s environment is the lethal consequence of the current political culture of vested interests and political cronyism. The aim of any real movement for reform must be to break this and to reform local government in a manner where the primacy of bureaucracy is replaced by the primacy of the citizen."

One off bungalow's are back BABY! Oh Yea! Build what you want where you want!

The role of the state

RENUA believes the primary role of the state is to keep the citizen safe. A state that fails to meet this criterion fails its people. Ireland must recognize self-reliance is a virtue rather than a necessity. A culture of dialogue between equals must replace the current hierarchical Victorian style age of deference.

I have NO idea what they are talking about. It seems to be the leftover slogans from the overall discussion.

Idbatterim

I think their fundamental problem is going to be trying to persuade people that they're more than just "Fine Gael But Even More Right Wing".

You can pepper the rhetoric all you want with words like "vision", "inventiveness" and "a new kind of politics", but once you start reading their policies it gets a little more difficult to disguise.

well they dont need to convince me, I gave FG my vote last time round, I hoped there we be an alternative this time round and I have one, those immoral, damaging levels of marginal rate tax, the outrageous income tax rates on the self employed, I am done with them.

Welfare and public sector reform given to Labour! it would be funny if it wasnt so serious and then we have "but derz no jabs" from the anti FG lot, so you voted for an anti work and enterprise party, tough ****, you reap what you sow! try joining the dots the next time, the majority of the electorates vision, ends at the end of their nose!

Brian Shanahan

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

Renua Ireland. Errr, interesting choice of name. Wonder how long that will last.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/lucinda-creighton-launches-renua-ireland-political-party-1.2138379

Ré Nua, not alone is it the name of a mental health centre in Athlone, amongst any other things, but it is very close to the modern European far-right party naming convention. The translation of the name "new era" is reminiscent of the names of parties such as Chrysi Avgi of Greece or Jobbik of Hungary, and hearkens very much to the rhetoric of the far right going back as far as Mussolini and Hitler.

All in all it is an extremely unfortunate name (as, frankly, I don't think the Loose Lips party is remotely far right, it is simply a mainstream right wing party with the economic and social idiocies attached to that stream of politics).

conorh91 wrote: »

Unfortunate choice of language

So basically their ideology is the modern day right's ideology of "**** the poor, feed the rich". Yeah, we'll find that if they ever get into power their job will (like the tories and nu labor over in the UK, or the two parties in the US, or most modern European parties) be to penalise the working people who make up the majority of the population and create virtually all the wealth, while being increasingly deferential and easy on the parasites at the top who cream the wealth off.

No new party here, the same old **** all over again.

Augmerson

Was anyone listening to the radio just now? I think it was Billy Timmons on? Jesus he was woeful. That was one of the worst interviews I've ever heard. Wasn't even asked any difficult questions.

the groutch

Lots of waffly and vague soundbites, nothing of substance to convince anyone to vote for them,

hallelujajordan

Augmerson wrote: »

Was anyone listening to the radio just now? I think it was Billy Timmons on? Jesus he was woeful. That was one of the worst interviews I've ever heard. Wasn't even asked any difficult questions.

On Drivetime ? It was Terence Flanagan #carcrashradio . . not a good start for Renua. .

nice_guy80

Best of luck to them

I'll give them a few months until I start reading their ideas

Ed_Stephens

Awful name, not a whole lot nua and if self-appointed financial expert Eddie Hobbs is in I'm out.

FalconGirl

As someone who was seeking a new party to support I'm bitterly disappointed from today launch. I hope things improve in the next few months but have my doubts. A very poor launch, nothing convincing at all.

Fail to prepare, prepare to fail.

Iranoutofideas

One of the worst political debuts I've ever seen. Woeful across the board. Policy that looks like an afterthought, car crash interview on drivetime, facebook parody debacle because they never secured a presence on there to begin with, even the party name is ill-thought out.

Looks like the good boat Renua is merely the Titanic rebranded - sunk on its maiden voyage.

Hotblack Desiato

Should have called it the Regressive Democrats.

Lovely Bloke

what was wrong with Flanagan? Totally lost it.

So have I got it right, its the party for the self employed and anti publics servants cohort of the electorate?.

Augmerson

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

what was wrong with Flanagan? Totally lost it.

Not enough time to learn his lines.

Nodin

hallelujajordan wrote: »

On Drivetime ? It was Terence Flanagan #carcrashradio . . not a good start for Renua. .

Bizarre, really, seeing as he's no stranger to public life. It was like this was his first time being interviewed by anyone, ever.
http://www.broadsheet.ie/2015/03/13/its-been-a-big-day-for-you/

Sheldons Brain

Ed_Stephens wrote: »

Awful name, not a whole lot nua and if self-appointed financial expert Eddie Hobbs is in I'm out.

Hobbs is no help. He was on the news there and stated that there should not be any restoration of public sector pay. So among all of the bomb disposal officers, biotechnology lecturers, IT specialists, paramedics, revenue audit specialists, cancer nurses and brain surgeons, none of these deserve anything after 15-30% cuts when the economy is growing at 4%+. Now he, and by extension his new party, could have had a policy of a measured restoration of PS pay, by reference to data on pay levels generally etc or some other systematic approach, but they went for the soundbite instead. This puts them on a par with SF.
.

MouseTail

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

what was wrong with Flanagan? Totally lost it.

I haven't heard him speak before, so don't know if this is usual for him, but I have never cringed so much for anyone being interviewed, really felt for him.

Iranoutofideas

MouseTail wrote: »

I haven't heard him speak before, so don't know if this is usual for him, but I have never cringed so much for anyone being interviewed, really felt for him.

Why? It's the most basic skill required of any public professional, a highly paid one at that.

He doesn't deserve an ounce of sympathy.

MouseTail

Of course he does, I know he is a serving TD, his politics are very far removed from mine, but on a human level it is very difficult to witness someone crash like that. He really sounded not well.

Brian Shanahan

mariaalice wrote: »

So have I got it right, its the party for the self employed and anti publics servants cohort of the electorate?.

For the rich self-employed set of the electorate who are pretending to live in Barbados or Monaco to evade their legal obligation to pay taxes. Most ordinary self-employed people would have nothing to do with Creighton's ilk, because they understand very well that she and hers don't want anything good for the ordinary person.

Ed_Stephens

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

Hobbs is no help. He was on the news there and stated that there should not be any restoration of public sector pay. So among all of the bomb disposal officers, biotechnology lecturers, IT specialists, paramedics, revenue audit specialists, cancer nurses and brain surgeons, none of these deserve anything after 15-30% cuts when the economy is growing at 4%+. Now he, and by extension his new party, could have had a policy of a measured restoration of PS pay, by reference to data on pay levels generally etc or some other systematic approach, but they went for the soundbite instead. This puts them on a par with SF.
.

Yes summed it up quite nicely, there's a whole lot of public servants who would be willing to switch their vote from Labour and they could have gone for that market but it's the usual "root and branch" change in the public service which means cut costs and start firing people. Hobbs is such a divisive figure I think it's a really bad move to have him in such a senior role. As George Lee found out it's a lot easier to commentate on policy than it is to implement.

Brian Shanahan

Ed_Stephens wrote: »

the usual "root and branch" change in the public service which means cut costs and start firing people.

And of course the firing will mostly consist of those at the bottom and at the front line delivering the services, the management level will continue to bloat, and the consultants brought in at even higher costs simply to write policy to ensure that immoral and wrong activities of major companies is made legal. Politicians these days never stop to think of the good of their nation, just how best to pay back their donors and bribers.

Iranoutofideas

Talking about Renua now on radio 1. Panel discussion. Diarmuid Ferriter says they have major problem - Eddie Hobbs.

Some spoofer was waffling on about the months of preparation that has been so impressive - they've got all the strategists, the data analysts, the social media experts....

Host cut in "But no Facebook page?"

"Eh I'll give you that."


Depressing stuff. If Renua is the best effort from those against the status quo then we really are ****ed.

Ed_Stephens

Iranoutofideas wrote: »

Depressing stuff. If Renua is the best effort from those against the status quo then we really are ****ed.

The thing is that Lucinda is the status quo, she was the poster girl for FG for long enough. The whip system is a long way from perfect but is necessary to get through an agreed program for government which in coalitions, which proportional representation inevitably throws up is a necessary evil.They haven't even really cleared that up, some voting issues will be free votes, some won't be, what happens when someone rebels against Lucinda on a whipped vote?

Hotblack Desiato

Lucinda wants to go backwards from the status quo. It's the only reason this party exists at all. If FG are more liberal than you are, it should give you pause...

For Reals

Iranoutofideas wrote: »

Talking about Renua now on radio 1. Panel discussion. Diarmuid Ferriter says they have major problem - Eddie Hobbs.

Some spoofer was waffling on about the months of preparation that has been so impressive - they've got all the strategists, the data analysts, the social media experts....

Host cut in "But no Facebook page?"

"Eh I'll give you that."


Depressing stuff. If Renua is the best effort from those against the status quo then we really are ****ed.

It's funny they sell themselves like that but from what I've seen so far they are a splinter FG and not so much new or nua. I believe they'll garner a few votes by those caught up in the PR, but it'll be straight in bed with FG first opportunity.

johnnyskeleton

Iranoutofideas wrote: »

Some spoofer was waffling on about the months of preparation that has been so impressive - they've got all the strategists, the data analysts, the social media experts....

Host cut in "But no Facebook page?"

Leaving a gap for a parody page which is absolutely spot on, IMO:

https://m.facebook.com/renuaireland

Everything about this has been an absolute car crash to watch. As someone who might be persuaded to vote for a small party with a low tax mandate, liberal views and with a strong transparency / anti corruption morality, i see nothing in this party that would make me vote for them!

RainyDay

Ed_Stephens wrote: »

Yes summed it up quite nicely, there's a whole lot of public servants who would be willing to switch their vote from Labour and they could have gone for that market but it's the usual "root and branch" change in the public service which means cut costs and start firing people. Hobbs is such a divisive figure I think it's a really bad move to have him in such a senior role. As George Lee found out it's a lot easier to commentate on policy than it is to implement.

Many public servants would support a true 'root and branch' change in the public service. Many public servants are sick to their teeth of poor management, poor systems, poor prioritisation etc. But there is nothing here in Renua to indicate anything clever. There no sign of any evidence base to back up their policies - all 'back of the envelope' stuff that has no record of working in the real world.

At least Eddie is honest about his plans and priorities, I'll give em that. They will be very, very lucky if anyone other than the well established TDs gets elected for their party in the next election.

nice_guy80

As a public servant I know multiple areas that money could be saved or better work practices introduced.

But there's no mechanisms to get input from the people at the coalface

expectationlost

nice_guy80 wrote: »

As a public servant I know multiple areas that money could be saved or better work practices introduced.

But there's no mechanisms to get input from the people at the coalface

pretty sure a read story two weeks ago about how there are payments for suggesting efficieny improving ideas in the public or civil service

Ed_Stephens

RainyDay wrote: »

Many public servants would support a true 'root and branch' change in the public service. Many public servants are sick to their teeth of poor management, poor systems, poor prioritisation etc. But there is nothing here in Renua to indicate anything clever. There no sign of any evidence base to back up their policies - all 'back of the envelope' stuff that has no record of working in the real world.

At least Eddie is honest about his plans and priorities, I'll give em that. They will be very, very lucky if anyone other than the well established TDs gets elected for their party in the next election.

Eddie Hobbs is pure anti-public service ala Thatcher, I very much doubt his honesty as the investors he had in a property company he owned found out a while back, he also constantly plugs his newspaper writings, books and websites on any interview I've heard with him so I think Me fein describes him perfectly. This party can be wiped out by one of the other parties introducing prsi type benefits for the self-employed.

Here's a Hobbs quote from a few years ago for that well known economic journal the Daily Star - Between increments and tax relief on pensions public servants are on a break even from the pay cuts.

I can't see more than 3 being elected, maybe 5 depending on the constituencies they run in but with this weeks latest poll looking a lot better for FG and Labour they can form the next government with the help of some independents.

Ed_Stephens

expectationlost wrote: »

pretty sure a read story two weeks ago about they are payments for suggesting efficieny improving ideas in the public or civil service

Please send on a link but I would imagine it would involve your idea being taken on board by management and that's one thing they don't like doing. The grading system in the public service creates and encourages a them and us approach to people on the ground and managers. Management will always circle the wagons around each other and ensure the lower grades stay in their place. My experience in the public sector is that the structures are more important than the service.