Inland net fishing for salmon

BenEadir

Hi all,

Hope you don't mind me asking this question here.

Can anyone tell me or point me in the direction of info on the the net fishing method used to catch salmon? It was a licensed activity and the licencee would typically leave one man on the river bank at low tide with one end of the net and row across the river to the other side throwing out the net as the boat went. the net had a rope with weights on the bottom and a rope with floats on top. When the boat got to the other side it would slowly drift with the tide and the onshore man would walk along holding the end of the net. After 45 minutes or so the boat would circle round to the same side of the river as the man on the river bank throwing out more net to form an area enclosed by the net and they would then haul in the net with two men on each side of the net one hauling in the bottom rope and one the top rope. As the net was almost in if there were fish in it you'd see waves at the back of the net and the fishermen pulled the whole net up onto the riverbank to secure the fish.

Was this type of inland commercial fishing called snap netting? I know it wasn't called drift netting as that was practised by trawlers out side the estuary in the open sea.

Am I right in saying that this type of commercial fishing is no longer licensed or are there still limited amounts of it done under strict license conditions?

I'm researching traditional farming and fishing techniques and this is one of the activities I'm struggling to find much info on.

All help or suggestions appreciated.

chopper6

BenEadir wrote: »

Hi all,

Hope you don't mind me asking this question here.

Can anyone tell me or point me in the direction of info on the the net fishing method used to catch salmon? It was a licensed activity and the licencee would typically leave one man on the river bank at low tide with one end of the net and row across the river to the other side throwing out the net as the boat went. the net had a rope with weights on the bottom and a rope with floats on top. When the boat got to the other side it would slowly drift with the tide and the onshore man would walk along holding the end of the net. After 45 minutes or so the boat would circle round to the same side of the river as the man on the river bank throwing out more net to form an area enclosed by the net and they would then haul in the net with two men on each side of the net one hauling in the bottom rope and one the top rope. As the net was almost in if there were fish in it you'd see waves at the back of the net and the fishermen pulled the whole net up onto the riverbank to secure the fish.

Was this type of inland commercial fishing called snap netting? I know it wasn't called drift netting as that was practised by trawlers out side the estuary in the open sea.

Am I right in saying that this type of commercial fishing is no longer licensed or are there still limited amounts of it done under strict license conditions?

I'm researching traditional farming and fishing techniques and this is one of the activities I'm struggling to find much info on.

All help or suggestions appreciated.

I'm pretty sure it's called Seine netting.

BenEadir

chopper6 wrote: »

I'm pretty sure it's called Seine netting.

Spot on Chopper, thanks for that.

Seine nets

Seine nets usually have two long wings and a section that concentrates and retains the catch. Lengths of rope are added to the end of each of the wings. These ropes are negatively buoyant and extend the working area of the net while adding minimum drag to the hauling operation. The nets function on the principle that fish are reluctant to swim over a moving object in the water and instead try to swim in front of it. The fish are thus herded by the ropes and wing ends into the net.

Beach-seine nets (also called haul seines, pocket seines, baitfish seines, garfish seines, snapper seines, hauling seines, seines or estuary seines) are used Australia-wide to catch many species, including mullet, whiting, Australian Salmon, garfish, Tailor and bream. The net may have a loose section of netting acting as the bunt area for retaining fish, or may have a bag at one end of the net or in the centre. Beach-seine nets can be set around a sighted school of fish, or in an area where fish are known to congregate. The net is set from a dinghy or can be walked out in shallow water, with the first length of rope being set perpendicular to the shore, the net set parallel to the shore, and the second rope set back to the shore. The ropes are then hauled onto the beach evenly, by hand, four-wheel drive vehicle or tractor, herding the fish into the net. Hauling continues until the net and fish are dragged onto the shore, or the fish are concentrated in the bag.

Taken from http://fish.gov.au/fishing_methods/Pages/nets.aspx

downwesht

Draft netting is what you describe.Sill done in Cork Harbour,Cromane and Killary harbours.

ComfortKid

Thank god that's illegal now!! Rivers would be cleaned out

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

You might want to check out the old traditional snap netting which is still carried out on the Nore, I believe.

bizidea

It's known as drag netting it's still legal on certain rivers where it is licensed mainly to traditional nets men on the blackwater there are three licences as far as I know one for the drag one for snap nets and I'm not sure what the other one is.think the season runs from sometime in may until the second week in July before the main run.don't think it would clean out a river as it can only be done when the river is at a stand still between high and low tides think it's for about an hour in morning and evening s and was going on for hundreds of years before it was clamped down on I say the illegal nets do a lot more damage

downwesht

Nice bit of poached salmon mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!:rolleyes:

BenEadir

downwesht wrote: »

Draft netting is what you describe.Sill done in Cork Harbour,Cromane and Killary harbours.

Draft netting it is then - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=70267496

Per the article I liked to earlier "Draft netting" must be a local Irish/British Isles term for the international term "hauling seines". Think I prefer our Draft Netting term, it describes what's going on. If I said to someone "hauling seines" was happening they'd look a bit funny at me I reckon!!

BenEadir

slaneylad

Two more videos from the Moy, As an Angler I can't say approve.

With the decline in Salmon Stocks I really wish this was banned on every river. Draft net fisherman argue its tradition or a way of life from them. If they want to fish I wish they would just buy a rod they'd get far more enjoyment. I'm not saying that these guys catch all the salmon going upstream. But I'm fairly certain if draft netting was not practiced. Salmon stocks in Irish rivers would improve.

This method was common practice on the Slaney years ago, The government only banned it when the river was nearly wiped out completely. The last few years has seen an increase of fish returning to the Slaney which was also aided by anglers fishing catch and release. (I'm aware this river was affected by the udn in the 60's)

Another river I fish is the Feale this was another fantastic river which seen tens of thousands of Salmon netted in this manner. The river is lucky to be open this year because the stocks are so low. This method is still allowed on the feale and wont be banned until they are nearly wiped out.

Then if we're lucky after 10 years of catch and release the stocks might once again rise above the conservation limit.

I really scratch my head with this government sometimes. Their argument is that they would be under a lot of pressure locally by reducing peoples income and not allowing them to practice traditions.

http://www.fisheriesireland.ie/Press-releases/new-study-angling-worth-075-billion-to-irish-economy-and-supporting-10000-jobs-in-rural-ireland.html

Above is link showing that Angling & Angling Tourism is worth 3/4 of a billion EVERY YEAR to the Irish economy

BenEadir

I don't have a dog in this fight but for what it's worth:-

slaneylad wrote: »

I'm not saying that these guys catch all the salmon going upstream. But I'm fairly certain if draft netting was not practiced. Salmon stocks in Irish rivers would improve.

Is that not true for any activity which see's salmon being caught and killed including angling?

slaneylad wrote: »

Another river I fish is the Feale this was another fantastic river which seen tens of thousands of Salmon netted in this manner. The river is lucky to be open this year because the stocks are so low. This method is still allowed on the feale and wont be banned until they are nearly wiped out.

Then if we're lucky after 10 years of catch and release the stocks might once again rise above the conservation limit.

I really scratch my head with this government sometimes. Their argument is that they would be under a lot of pressure locally by reducing peoples income and not allowing them to practice traditions.

If draft netting is a commercial practice would low stocks not automatically regulate the activity i.e. if stocks are so low people wouldn't get an economic return from investing time and resources into draft netting when the fish aren't there in sufficient quantities to compensate them for their effort??

slaneylad

BenEadir wrote: »

If draft netting is a commercial practice would low stocks not automatically regulate the activity i.e. if stocks are so low people wouldn't get an economic return from investing time and resources into draft netting when the fish aren't there in sufficient quantities to compensate them for their effort??

You'd think that but at €52.50 for 500g of wild Irish smoked salmon, these guys will fish as long as they're let.

http://www.smokehouse.ie/shop/category.php?id_category=7

BenEadir

slaneylad wrote: »

You'd think that but at €52.50 for 500g of wild Irish smoked salmon, these guys will fish as long as they're let.

http://www.smokehouse.ie/shop/category.php?id_category=7

Are you implying draft net fishermen get €105 a kg for the fish they catch? If my own personal wholesale and retail experience (not fish but other food products) the primary supplier of the food before it is prepared and/or processed, packed and sold to retail outlets is about 205 of the final retail price. I would therefore estimate that the price the fishermen get is between €20 and €25 a kilo.

If 4 men are draft net fishing full time and and need to be paid €750 each + costs of running the boat i.e. fuel, nets, repairs, insurance, licence etc they'd need to be earning at least €4,000 a week. That's 160kg of salmon or thirty two 5kg salmon per week. Is that possible if stocks are so low?

slaneylad

BenEadir wrote: »

Are you implying draft net fishermen get €105 a kg for the fish they catch?

No I'm not a Gob****e

slaneylad

BenEadir wrote: »

If 4 men are draft net fishing full time and and need to be paid €750 each

Lol

BenEadir

slaneylad wrote: »

Lol

Too little? Too much? Do you have an alternative/better model to examine the commercial challenge of daft net fishing? I'm genuinely interested to know. It's easy to make throw away comments like

slaneylad wrote: »

Another river I fish is the Feale this was another fantastic river which seen tens of thousands of Salmon netted in this manner.

but is there any evidence whatsoever to support such a claim?

Let's look at your statement that "tens of thousands" of salmon were netted on the river Feale. Let's assume the minimum number "tens" of tousands could be i.e. 20,000 salmon, lets assume each salmon was an average of 5kg (happy to be corrected on this) and let's assume my estimate that the fishermen get a max of €25 per kg for fish they catch.

Your hypothesis would therefore imply the rover Feale draft net fishermen made 20,000 x 5kg x €25 = €2.5m.

Taken from http://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/outdoors/donal-hickey/decline-in-salmon-may-close-feale-209325.html

"Inland Fisheries Ireland has acknowledged a ‘noticeable decline’ in fish numbers — from 8,000, in 2010, to 5,500, in 2011

Only 1,208 salmon travelled upstream in the first six months of this year. An average of 665 salmon per month is needed for the remainder of the year if the conservation figure of 4,323 is to be reached. There are 600 anglers and 51 commercial draft net fishermen on the Feale."

When exactly were "tens of thousands" of salmon caught by drift net fishermen in the river Feale? Was it over a 20 year period?

If the existing 51 drift net fishermen caught the entire conservation shock figure of 4,323 fish the total value per fisherman would be €10,595. Not a very compelling commercial proposition especially in light of the fact that catching all the fish in the river would be impossible and even if they did it would bring an end to their own livelihood as there wouldn't be any fish left to return and spawn year after year.

If draft netting is such a threat to the sustainability of the salmon stock on the river Feale (or any river) how has it been able to exist as a commercially viable practice for generations?

malinheader

Ifs a myth to think stopping a small bit of draft net fishing will replenish the salmon stocks. Since drift net fishing by Irish boats was stopped at sea the salmon in Irish rivers never really got any more plentiful than they were before,maybe worse. Pollution in our rivers is a big factor to the decline in Salmon stocks in our rivers.

Zzippy

malinheader wrote: »

Ifs a myth to think stopping a small bit of draft net fishing will replenish the salmon stocks. Since drift net fishing by Irish boats was stopped at sea the salmon in Irish rivers never really got any more plentiful than they were before,maybe worse. Pollution in our rivers is a big factor to the decline in Salmon stocks in our rivers.

Water quality in Irish rivers has improved hugely in the last 20 years. Improved waste water treatment and better regulations for rural septic tanks have helped a lot, along with improved agricultural practices. Fish kills are a lot more unusual these days than they were in the past. Most salmon rivers in Ireland support very good populations of juvenile salmon. The problem is not in freshwater, the problem is at sea. Industrial fishing for bait species, mackerel and herring is impacting salmon at sea. Lice from salmon farms are infesting salmon migrating to sea. The real problem is in the marine.

downwesht

The notion that salmon eat herring and mackerel is a joke.
They eat prawns that give them their pink colour in deep waters off Greenland.
Nobody has mentioned the huge seal population predating on stocks all around the coast.
The damming of the Lee resulted a huge collapse which has never recovered from.
The catch and release must result in losses of at least 20% from mouth damage and infection through scale loss and stress.

Zzippy

downwesht wrote: »

The notion that salmon eat herring and mackerel is a joke.
They eat prawns that give them their pink colour in deep waters off Greenland.

Salmon at sea have a varied diet, including prawns, krill and smal bait fish like capelin. Capelin are fished industrially for fishmeal, resulting in less feed for wild fish. Krill are now fished for krill oil. Salmon feed on capelin in the same waters as herring and mackerel, and are often caught in the same trawls. I never said they feed on herring or mackerel. BTW the vast majority of our salmon feed north of the Faroes, only a small number (multi-sea-winter fish) travel to Greenland.

downwesht wrote: »

Nobody has mentioned the huge seal population predating on stocks all around the coast.
The damming of the Lee resulted a huge collapse which has never recovered from.
The catch and release must result in losses of at least 20% from mouth damage and infection through scale loss and stress.

Radio tracking studies have shown survival rates of 90-95% for released fish.

malinheader

Easy to blame the marine sector but How can our water quality of improved when listening to the news when in some countys over %50 of septic tanks are failing inspections. Also the increase in silage production over the years and the waste water treatment plant in my area was built before the building boom and never upgraded so cant cope with amount of waste. I Agree some of it is also marine like the massive Krill fishery around Greenland and other places are destroying the feeding for alot of species. Drift netting always got the blame for decimating salmon stocks but when everything else is put together the outlook looks bleak for a big salmon revival

Zzippy

malinheader wrote: »

Easy to blame the marine sector but How can our water quality of improved when listening to the news when in some countys over %50 of septic tanks are failing inspections. Also the increase in silage production over the years and the waste water treatment plant in my area was built before the building boom and never upgraded so cant cope with amount of waste. I Agree some of it is also marine like the massive Krill fishery around Greenland and other places are destroying the feeding for alot of species. Drift netting always got the blame for decimating salmon stocks but when everything else is put together the outlook looks bleak for a big salmon revival

And the tanks that are failing inspections are having to be upgraded, which is helping to improve water quality. Re silage - silage effluent used to be a huge, huge problem for water quality - it is very rare nowadays to see pollution caused by silage as the production method has moved almost entirely from silage pits to baled silage - leaking pits were the main problem previously. Around the country many WWTPs have been upgraded - yes there are still problems but in general water quality is much better now than it used to be.

ComfortKid

Zzippy wrote:

And the tanks that are failing inspections are having to be upgraded, which is helping to improve water quality. Re silage - silage effluent used to be a huge, huge problem for water quality - it is very rare nowadays to see pollution caused by silage as the production method has moved almost entirely from silage pits to baled silage - leaking pits were the main problem previously. Around the country many WWTPs have been upgraded - yes there are still problems but in general water quality is much better now than it used to be.

2 rivers in my area were badly polluted last summer from either silage or slurry im not sure. Dont think they had salmon runs but still terrible to see.

Zzippy

ComfortKid wrote: »

2 rivers in my area were badly polluted last summer from either silage or slurry im not sure. Dont think they had salmon runs but still terrible to see.

It does still happen but it's a lot rarer than it was 20 or 30 years ago. Last summer was very warm and dry and it doesn't take a lot of pollution to cause a fish kill in those conditions - high temperatures make it worse and there's very little dilution so the pollutant is more concentrated, so where something does get into a river it causes big problems. But on the whole there have been very few fish kills in recent years. In my time in the sector I've only had to deal with 2 small ones. Older colleagues recall big fish kills on a yearly basis around silage time...