Water charges and tenants

howyanow

I was just wondering what happens if a tenant refuses to register for the water tax?
will the bill fall to landlord and could a lease be terminated if tenant refuses?
any one have experience of this?
thanks

daheff

nobody knows as its not been brought into Ireland yet.


However I cannot see how the landlord would be liable for the utility (any more so than gas/esb)


As for terminating the lease over this....don't know if that would be possible....same as not paying other bills for services provided to the address.

Arbiter of Good Taste

daheff wrote: »

nobody knows as its not been brought into Ireland yet.


However I cannot see how the landlord would be liable for the utility (any more so than gas/esb)


As for terminating the lease over this....don't know if that would be possible....same as not paying other bills for services provided to the address.

I agree you. The problem is when you have TDs making statements along the lines that if a tenant doesn't pay their water charges, that a charge will be placed on the landlord's property.

Every time I see a new thread on this topic, my heart goes a-flutter in the hope that someone finally has the answer. Alas, no

Victor

Most leases have a condition that state the tenant must pay all utilities. It may be a breach of contract to not pay.

foggy_lad

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

I agree you. The problem is when you have TDs making statements along the lines that if a tenant doesn't pay their water charges, that a charge will be placed on the landlord's property.

Every time I see a new thread on this topic, my heart goes a-flutter in the hope that someone finally has the answer. Alas, no

just ignore what the government politicians say as they are under orders to blind the peasants with bulldung in the hope that most will pay up.

as for tenants, there is no way that landlords can be made responsible for a tenants bills!

here is what the prtb says

http://www.prtb.ie/tenants/helpful-info/irish-water-charges-q-a

Irish Water Charges Q&A
Water charges are similar to any other utility bill, and are primarily a matter between the provider and the consumer. Queries in relation to water charges should be directed to Irish Water at: http://www.water.ie or 1890 448 448. The following has been prepared for your convenience in response to the volume of queries received at our call centre.



• Who is responsible for ensuring the water service consumer application packs are completed and sent back to Irish Water?

The customer i.e. the occupier and consumer of water services, is responsible. Property owners are responsible for their homes and vacant properties. Where a tenant is residing in a dwelling, they, as occupier, are deemed the customer and are responsible for their rented place of residence.

• Who is responsible for paying the water charges?

The customer is responsible for paying water charges, i.e., owners are responsible for their homes and vacant properties. Tenants are responsible for their rented place of residence. Owners are legally presumed under the Water Services (No.2) Act 2013 to be the customer, unless proven otherwise. Such proof can be provided by (a) a tenant registering as customer at the premises or (b) the landlord providing the name of the tenant and date of commencement of tenancy.

L1011

Looks as if nonregistered LLs could find themselves liable, depending what level of proof is accepted for a tenancy. Will be interesting to see how it pans out

Bob24

L1011 wrote: »

Looks as if nonregistered LLs could find themselves liable, depending what level of proof is accepted for a tenancy. Will be interesting to see how it pans out

I'd say giving the name of the tenant with no further documentation is enough for the landlord to be off the hook.

Unless the info given be the landlord is incorrect, I don't see a tenant disputing the fact that they are living in the property once they are registered with Irish Water.

agent graves

with rented accommodation becoming more expensive im just going to pay the water charges.. the last thing I need, and many others, is to be getting chucked out of the house. and then having to pay a higher rent.. its not worth the hassle.

Patrickof

Victor wrote: »

Most leases have a condition that state the tenant must pay all utilities. It may be a breach of contract to not pay.

Not technically correct, the energy regulator takes the view on the clause in the lease that the tenant is "responsible" for the charges, the distinction being that the charge can remain in the landlords name (why they would do that I've no idea!) but the tenant is still "responsible" for the charge.

L1011

Patrickof wrote: »

Not technically correct, the energy regulator takes the view on the clause in the lease that the tenant is "responsible" for the charges, the distinction being that the charge can remain in the landlords name (why they would do that I've no idea!) but the tenant is still "responsible" for the charge.

What you've said there doesn't change any of what Victor said. If the contract says they have to pay and they don't, they've broken the contract.

Bob24 wrote: »

I'd say giving the name of the tenant with no further documentation is enough for the landlord to be off the hook.

Tenant, knowing it to be unregistered, could claim to IW that they weren't actually the tenant at all. Landlord trying to pursue it could find the PRTB on their back (and very likely Revenue too, due to the difficulty of claiming all applicable tax reliefs unless registered meaning most unregistered LLs are also not tax compliant).

Bob24

L1011 wrote: »

Tenant, knowing it to be unregistered, could claim to IW that they weren't actually the tenant at all. Landlord trying to pursue it could find the PRTB on their back (and very likely Revenue too, due to the difficulty of claiming all applicable tax reliefs unless registered meaning most unregistered LLs are also not tax compliant).

Sure, in that scenario everybody is trying to cheat the system. Agreed the landlord probably has more to lose that the tenant, but unless they are planing to move out soon - is the tenant really going to want to create that much trouble for the landlord and obviously enter a conflictual situation.

L1011

Bob24 wrote: »

Sure, in that scenario everybody is trying to cheat the system. Agreed the landlord probably has more to lose that the tenant, but unless they are planing to move out soon - is the tenant really going to want to create that much trouble for the landlord and obviously enter a conflictual situation.

I'd only really see it happening when the tenant has long since left and the LL is being asked for their back charges. You would be nuts to try it while still there.

Arbiter of Good Taste

L1011 wrote: »

What you've said there doesn't change any of what Victor said. If the contract says they have to pay and they don't, they've broken the contract.

That's all well and good, but if the tenant is long gone, will the LL be left with a charge attaching to his property?

Gatling

To me it's another excuse for certain types of landlords to increase or turn profits while they are running a business and I've no issues with that .
But with the rent increases over the last 12-18 months are we going to see and hear more people/families becoming homeless for not paying IW but never missing rent or other utilities now are they bad tenants or do we have greedy landlords .
From asking for 2+ months deposits it's going to end up with another bubble waiting to happen

foggy_lad

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

That's all well and good, but if the tenant is long gone, will the LL be left with a charge attaching to his property?

No! it is up to Irish Water to follow the customer that owes the debt who is the tenant not the Landlord.