Are property agencies allowed to make up fictional offers?

randomstuff

Went to have a look at an apartment with a friend.

Asking is 210k. Current highest offer on property is 185k. We made an offer of 190k. Next day agent comes back to us that the same people are bidding again, 205k.

This got us thinking.

Is the agent allowed to make up fictional bids to drive the price? Is it legal /illegal? Is it a normal occurrence?

Thank you.

Supercell

Is it illegal yes, is it a normal occurrence yes.
This is one of the reasons for the continual boom bust of our property market..i could rant for a while but will leave it for that.

randomstuff

Would there be any tips in trying to avoid it? Only thing we can think of is telling the agent that's our final price and that's that.

Supercell

I took the approach that I couldn't go higher and if the other "other bidder" backs out then let me know and keep it polite!

campingcarist

I took the initial approach even before viewing, that if there is another bidder, I'm out. Same approach with an owner selling without an agent from whom I eventually bought my apartment. The worst thing you can do is fall in love with a property, or at least, show that to an agent.

Henry Ford III

Why not time limit your offer?

P. Breathnach

I have bid on several properties over the past year, and had agents come back to me saying there was a higher bid. In a couple of cases I stayed in, and bid further, only to be outbid again.

So I didn't buy. I followed up on some of them in the property price register. In every case, the selling price was higher than I had bid. Not all competing bids are fictitious. My belief is that the practice is not nearly as common as people posting here seem to think.

Eugene Norman

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I have bid on several properties over the past year, and had agents come back to me saying there was a higher bid. In a couple of cases I stayed in, and bid further, only to be outbid again.

So I didn't buy. I followed up on some of them in the property price register. In every case, the selling price was higher than I had bid. Not all competing bids are fictitious. My belief is that the practice is not nearly as common as people posting here seem to think.

It probably isn't as common as thought but not unbelievable either.

Can't people ask to see the other bidders bid in writing, or in email.

P. Breathnach

Eugene Norman wrote: »

...
Can't people ask to see the other bidders bid in writing, or in email.

Tricky. If I bid on a property that you also want, how much data about me can you seek?

Supercell

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I have bid on several properties over the past year, and had agents come back to me saying there was a higher bid. In a couple of cases I stayed in, and bid further, only to be outbid again.

So I didn't buy. I followed up on some of them in the property price register. In every case, the selling price was higher than I had bid. Not all competing bids are fictitious. My belief is that the practice is not nearly as common as people posting here seem to think.

I can counter that with two properties that sold for lower than I bid. Another that no matter how many times i called the estate agent they never were around to make an appointment to view (colleagues took my number and promised callbacks) and eventually sold for less than i was prepared to offer. Estate agents caveat emptor.

um7y1h83ge06nx

Supercell wrote: »

I can counter that with two properties that sold for lower than I bid. Another that no matter how many times i called the estate agent they never were around to make an appointment to view (colleagues took my number and promised callbacks) and eventually sold for less than i was prepared to offer. Estate agents caveat emptor.

Might have been sales to people the estate agents knew.

MarkAnthony

From a pub conversation with an EA:

They have to record all bids, how they came in and how much for. There is a tiny possibility that these could be inspected. From what I could gather there's noting to stop an EA making up an email address an email bids in all day long, or writing a bid on the back of a fag packet signed Jimmy Riddler.

April 73

Put your bids in writing or by email & ask the estate agent to respond to you in writing or by email.
I would not make a bid by phone or accept that you've been outbid from a phone conversation. Having something in writing offers more assurance as there is a trail.

April 73

So you bid €190k and your opposing bidder jumped up to €205k just like that?
I'd be dubious.

blackbird 49

Aurelia Thoughtless Waiter wrote: »

Might have been sales to people the estate agents knew.

I would have to agree with this, when we were buying a house a few year back, we view a house with a certain auctioneer we put in a bid but had to keep phoning to see what was happening in the end the house went for a lower price than advertised we would of paid a little more, he had another house and did the same, we heard he let both houses go to people he knew, needless to say when this same auctioneer ran in the local election a few years later he called to our door looking for votes my husband happened to answer the look on his face was priceless, my husband verbally abused him from a height and he promptly ran from our door very quickly.

Panda_Turtle

April 73 wrote: »

So you bid €190k and your opposing bidder jumped up to €205k just like that?
I'd be dubious.

Maybe the bidder really wanted that apartment and figured if they bidded 195k , that it would likely be bid to 200k and they would have to bid to 205k anyway.

So they deliver this knock out punch of a bid to try secure the place.

gaius c

If you suspect a phantom bidder, best strategy is to bid up to your max, walk away leaving them with a bid that may or may not be real.

If it's fake, they'll be back to you to announce that the vendor will be happy to accept your last bid. Politely but firmly point out that since the bidder who bid you all the way up is now gone, there will be "negotiation" regarding what your actual bid will be.

Time limit that bid and stick to it. Be aware that you're dealing with somebody who has proven themselves to be dishonest and may try more "tricks".

I understand that 50% of sale agreeds are falling through so even if the bids are real, underbidders still have a decent chance of securing the property.

Atlantic Dawn

Give them an offer, tell them that stands for 7 days.

gaius c

Doesn't really work if you're trying to low ball the property and there are other "bidders".

Duckjob

randomstuff wrote: »

Went to have a look at an apartment with a friend.

Asking is 210k. Current highest offer on property is 185k. We made an offer of 190k. Next day agent comes back to us that the same people are bidding again, 205k.

This got us thinking.

Is the agent allowed to make up fictional bids to drive the price? Is it legal /illegal? Is it a normal occurrence?

Thank you.

Don't get me started on this.

Estate agents seem to operate in the one professional services area where misrepresentation can seemingly be practiced on a widespread basis with no fear of consequences.

BeatNikDub

If you really feel there is something dubious going on report to the regulator for investigation.
As mentioned all bids have to be logged by law and also brought to the vendor.
I've worked in a few different offices over the years and definitely have not seen this happen.
Bidding is really just not a pleasant business at all.

Uno my Uno.

People here often complain about phantom bidders, a lot of those same people allow themselves to be bid up anyway which seems pretty silly to me.

working on the basis that the OP is at their limit and isn't just trying to lowball the vendor I would imagine that the best course of action here is would be to decline to make a further offer but say that your current offer stands. If the vendor comes back to you you know that the likelihood is that the other bidder never existed. If they don't you know your offer wasn't going to be accepted anyway.

randomstuff

Thanks to all for the recommendations... Will try to use some of the techniques that you guys have outlined.