Pavee point in common sense shocker!

dark crystal

RecordStraight wrote: »

Give them, give them, give them.

Perhaps too much is already given to them and not enough is expected? They contribute almost nothing to society and yet are given free education, healthcare, accommodation. People never seem to respect things they get for nothing.

Immunisation is free to all children as far as I'm aware, as is GP care for all children under six years of age. There's no excuse for any parent not to get their kids immunised in this day and age.

Stheno

dark crystal wrote: »

Immunisation is free to all children as far as I'm aware, as is GP care for all children under six years of age. There's no excuse for any parent not to get their kids immunised in this day and age.

You're incorrect on the GP care but immunisation and phn liasion is available to all babies, iirc there is actually a scheduled series of checkups at various ages that babies go through

dark crystal

Stheno wrote: »

You're incorrect on the GP care but immunisation and phn liasion is available to all babies, iirc there is actually a scheduled series of checkups at various ages that babies go through

Aah, I wasn't sure if the free GP thing had gone through yet or not.

I'm aware of the immunisation and PHN visits etc., as I have children of my own who have all gone through it. My point was, could the high rate of infant/child mortality in the traveller community be largely down to parents not availing of these vital services.

Stheno

dark crystal wrote: »

I'm aware of the immunisation and PHN visits etc., as I have children of my own who have all gone through it. My point was, could the high rate of infant/child mortality in the traveller community be largely down to parents not availing of these vital services.

Quite possibly, and could be taken back to lack of education about the importance of such programmes.

haveringchick

end of the road wrote: »

quoate where i said they were?

Well.....you mare it abundantly clear that you don't think the Travelers themselves are responsible, so if the Travellers aren't resposensible and the settled folk are'nt then who, EOTR, do you think is responsible for the abhorrent behaviour of a disproportionate amount of Travellers in this country?

haveringchick

Stheno wrote: »

You're incorrect on the GP care but immunisation and phn liasion is available to all babies, iirc there is actually a scheduled series of checkups at various ages that babies go through

100% of Traveller children have Medical Cards.

Dan_Solo

haveringchick wrote: »

100% of Traveller children have Medical Cards.

I'd say close to 100% of travellers overall do. Except yer man with 8 kids on 840 a week dole who was over the limit...

eviltwin

dark crystal wrote: »

I also wonder how many traveller children are immunised against easily preventable diseases like measles, mumps, rubella and meningitis. How many traveller children have regular check-ups with public health nurses, GPs, dentists and opticians.

Give them a good standard of healthcare from the off and you may well prevent more serious illnesses developing in later life.

It's a vicious circle. The mothers are often not at peak health which impacts on the pregnancy, add to that almost constant pregnancy, breastfeeding rates that are practically nil and substandard living conditions and it's a miracle any survive.

dark crystal

Stheno wrote: »

Quite possibly, and could be taken back to lack of education about the importance of such programmes.

Perhaps Pavee Point would be better served educating their community about these services and the benefits of them, rather than making excuses for their failings. Can you imagine the damage one child with Whooping Cough or German Measles could do in a halting site full of other infants and children? I have no doubt that many traveller children's deaths could be prevented by availing of the free services that are there for every parent in Ireland.

Similarly, travellers are far more prone to hearing and vision problems than those in the settled community. Again, this can be easily prevented or helped by availing of the services given to all primary school children. I read somewhere that less than one in four traveller children have ever visited an optician. I mean, these are basic bloody things all children should developmentally be tested for! A child with impaired hearing or vision can hardly be expected to do as well in the classroom, therefore perpetuating a lack of interest in education from primary level on. It's a vicious cycle, but one which could easily be avoided if these children were given a better start in life by the ones supposed to be parenting them.

Stheno

haveringchick wrote: »

100% of Traveller children have Medical Cards.

Really? Is that a benefit they get as a result of being traveller children?

eviltwin wrote: »

It's a vicious circle. The mothers are often not at peak health which impacts on the pregnancy, add to that almost constant pregnancy, breastfeeding rates that are practically nil and substandard living conditions and it's a miracle any survive.

Which going back to travellergirls incredulity earlier about education can be addressed. Good contraception and family planning, along with education on diet and lifestyle would all ameliorate this

I often watch that wedding programme on C4 about travellers and wonder what life is like five years later for the teen brides.

haveringchick

Dan_Solo wrote: »

I'd say close to 100% of travellers overall do. Except yer man with 8 kids on 840 a week dole who was over the limit...

With a wife and 8 kids he's not over the limit.
If your solely reliant on SW (officially) then your entitled to a medical card, no matter how much that SW amounts too.
My friend has a husband and 11 children all living still with her.
Ages range from nearly 20 to 6 months.
Various SW payments including Disability Allowance Carers Allowance Child Benefit Respite Care Grant and child dependent payments bring the weekly household income to in excess of €1500 all from SW.
Everybody has a medical card.

Stheno

haveringchick wrote: »

With a wife and 8 kids he's not over the limit.
If your solely reliant on SW (officially) then your entitled to a medical card, no matter how much that SW amounts too.
My friend has a husband and 11 children all living still with her.
Ages range from nearly 20 to 6 months.
Various SW payments including Disability Allowance Carers Allowance Child Benefit Respite Care Grant and child dependent payments bring the weekly household income to in excess of €1500 all from SW.
Everybody has a medical card.

That's €78,000 a year, that is truly sickening.
To take that home you'd have to earn at least €110k at a minimum

It's actually disgusting to read that.

And if one applies it to travellers with large families, it helps explain somewhat how they seem to have so much without working. No rent/mortgage/taxes

haveringchick

Stheno wrote: »

Really? Is that a benefit they get as a result of being traveller children?


Which going back to travellergirls incredulity earlier about education can be addressed. Good contraception and family planning, along with education on diet and lifestyle would all ameliorate this

I often watch that wedding programme on C4 about travellers and wonder what life is like five years later for the teen brides.

Forget about family planning and contraception. You must be joking. A traveller mans wealth is judged by how many children he has particularly the amount of sons. The Traveller man buried today in Athlone at aged 63 had 46 grandchildren and was already a great grandfather.
What's becoming more common now though is for the woman in her early 40s to go on the "sly" (unbeknownst to him) and have her tubes tied.

RecordStraight

haveringchick wrote: »

Forget about family planning and contraception. You must be joking. A traveller mans wealth is judged by how many children he has particularly the amount of sons. The Traveller man buried today in Athlone at aged 63 had 46 grandchildren and was already a great grandfather.
What's becoming more common now though is for the woman in her early 40s to go on the "sly" (unbeknownst to him) and have her tubes tied.

It's a great culture all the same.

Stheno

haveringchick wrote: »

Forget about family planning and contraception. You must be joking. A traveller mans wealth is judged by how many children he has particularly the amount of sons. The Traveller man buried today in Athlone at aged 63 had 46 grandchildren and was already a great grandfather.
What's becoming more common now though is for the woman in her early 40s to go on the "sly" (unbeknownst to him) and have her tubes tied.

He actually had 49

At least as many police attended the funeral on the basis of the linked article.

As long as we see young travellers like the one posting in this thread brushing off any concerns about their community, there will be no progress.

haveringchick

Stheno wrote: »

That's €78,000 a year, that is truly sickening.
To take that home you'd have to earn at least €110k at a minimum

It's actually disgusting to read that.

And if one applies it to travellers with large families, it helps explain somewhat how they seem to have so much without working. No rent/mortgage/taxes

Quit a lot is lodged to the bank. There's a never ending parade of family functions to attend weddings christening s funerals . And you must go. Every child dressed to the knocker. Older children. Boys and girls must have sessions on the sunbed, beauty parlour sessions, nails etc.
A wedding invite for a teenage traveller girl would now involve 2 outfits (church and hotel). These things don't come cheap.

Stheno

haveringchick wrote: »

Quit a lot is lodged to the bank. There's a never ending parade of family functions to attend weddings christening s funerals . And you must go. Every child dressed to the knocker. Older children. Boys and girls must have sessions on the sunbed, beauty parlour sessions, nails etc.
A wedding invite for a teenage traveller girl would now involve 2 outfits (church and hotel). These things don't come cheap.

Are the family you are referring to on those benefits travellers?

Yurt2

dark crystal wrote: »

Similarly, travellers are far more prone to hearing and vision problems than those in the settled community. Again, this can be easily prevented or helped by availing of the services given to all primary school children. I read somewhere that less than one in four traveller children have ever visited an optician.

It's funny you say that. I would have come up with through school with a lot of travellers in my community, and I never ever saw any of them young or old with glasses. I often thought to myself that despite their hardships at least they don't have bad eyesight!

haveringchick

eviltwin wrote: »

It's a vicious circle. The mothers are often not at peak health which impacts on the pregnancy, add to that almost constant pregnancy, breastfeeding rates that are practically nil and substandard living conditions and it's a miracle any survive.

Absolutely eviltwin. Your traveller woman in her late 30s on her 9th or 10th pregnancy will invariably have gestational diabetes high blood pressure and be st risk of pre eclampsia.

TravellerGirl

dark crystal wrote: »

I also wonder how many traveller children are immunised against easily preventable diseases like measles, mumps, rubella and meningitis. How many traveller children have regular check-ups with public health nurses, GPs, dentists and opticians.

Give them a good standard of healthcare from the off and you may well prevent more serious illnesses developing in later life.

All traveller children get immunised, gets health checks as well.

Stheno

Yurt! wrote: »

It's funny you say that. I would have come up with through school with a lot of travellers in my community, and I never ever saw any of them young or old with glasses. I often thought to myself that despite their hardships at least they don't have bad eyesight!

I also did too, never thought it was lack of medical care!

haveringchick wrote: »

Absolutely eviltwin. Your traveller woman in her late 30s on her 9th or 10th pregnancy will invariably have gestational diabetes high blood pressure and be st risk of pre eclampsia.

I'm a relic being in my forties, and the oldest of ten (youngest is a family members child who died and was adopted), but clearly remember my mother struggling on her last pregnancy at the age of about 38, and baby being induced as baby stopped growing. My mother took full advantage of all medical care available to her and yet this happened

haveringchick

Stheno wrote: »

Are the family you are referring to on those benefits travellers?

Settled travellers. They own their own 6 bedroomed house. Outright.
If you want to have 11 children snd fight for disability payments and carers payments uou would get them too.
Its not cos theyre travellers. It's the way the system is set up.

Stheno

haveringchick wrote: »

Settled travellers. They own their own 6 bedroomed house. Outright.
If you want to have 11 children snd fight for disability payments and carers payments uou would get them too.
Its not cos theyre travellers. It's the way the system is set up.

My parents got no benefits having ten kids, my Mum was self employed, my dad worked as a general operative.

Mums business failed and they had to start again with no benefit.

How are this family owning their home outright?

.

haveringchick

TravellerGirl wrote: »

All traveller children get immunised, gets health checks as well.

Travelers children are cared for healthwise impeccably by their.mothers.
I just wish they were as fussy about bringing them to school.

Stheno

TravellerGirl wrote: »

All traveller children get immunised, gets health checks as well.

How can you say that? You are cherry picking what you talk about, won't talk about what travellers do to earn money, now you claim carte blanch that all traveller children get healthcare?

Tbh your posts are as damaging to the travelling community as their rl behaviour.

Seems like you jump on a bandwagon to say they get every benefit, then on another when life is difficult.

You're only twenty so fair enough, but sounds to me like you are just being an apologist here. I'd love to see stats showing how many traveller chidlren get the healthcare that is provided rather than your blanket statements, which so far can't be backed up

dark crystal

TravellerGirl wrote: »

All traveller children get immunised, gets health checks as well.

Glad to hear it, although this report into a Measles epidemic amongst Irish travellers in the UK report that 98% of those afflicted with the disease were unimmunised.

http://www.eurosurveillance.org/ViewArticle.aspx?ArticleId=3216

This report states that immunisation uptake is as low as 46% within the travelling community.

http://arrow.dit.ie/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1048&context=ijass

That report also states that the incidence of cot death amongst infants in the travelling community is 12 times higher than that within the settled community. That's an awful statistic.

haveringchick

Stheno wrote: »

My parents got no benefits having ten kids, my Mum was self employed, my dad worked as a general operative.

Mums business failed and they had to start again with no benefit.

How are this family owning their home outright?

.

If your dad had claimed to be too sick to work and your mam claimed she had to stay home to look after him, and that one of your siblings was special needs, and then fought like a tiger when refused. Until the powers that be cave in.

Stheno

dark crystal wrote: »

Glad to hear it, although this report into a Measles epidemic amongst Irish travellers in the UK report that 98% of those afflicted with the disease were unimmunised.

http://www.eurosurveillance.org/ViewArticle.aspx?ArticleId=3216

This report states that immunisation uptake is as low as 46% within the travelling community.

http://arrow.dit.ie/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1048&context=ijass

That report also states that the incidence of cot death amongst infants in the travelling community is 12 times higher than that within the settled community. That's an awful statistic.

But surely you'd believe an anecdote from a member of the travelling community rather than statistical facts?

It's not as if she is on here glossing over them is it?

dark crystal

Stheno wrote: »

But surely you'd believe an anecdote from a member of the travelling community rather than statistical facts?

It's not as if she is on here glossing over them is it?

To be fair, TravellerGirl may be a settled traveller. I'm assuming immunisation uptake may be higher amongst the settled community, rather than nomadic travellers.

Again, that's just a presumption on my part!

Stheno

dark crystal wrote: »

To be fair, TravellerGirl may be a settled traveller. I'm assuming immunisation uptake may be higher amongst the settled community, rather than nomadic travellers.

Again, that's just a presumption on my part!

True, I know two settled traveller families from doing business with them and their kids were immunised, but if travellergirl is a settled traveller and that is the case it's not an accurate reflection for her to say that all travellers are immunised.

I actually find her posts disappointing as she claims to have FETAC level education but directs all blame for the situation of travellers back on the settled community and doesn't bother addressing any genuine questions she is asked, so for me, she is as much a part of the problem as the rest of her community