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Pavee point in common sense shocker!

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12467…17

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    #92
    Areyouwell
    Registered Users Posts: 397 ✭✭Areyouwell


    oceanman wrote: »
    plenty of countries allow marriage at 16....whats barbaric about it?

    O.k. let's drop the barbaric part. But isn't marrying a 16 year old a little bit pedo-ish?


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    #93
    TravellerGirl
    Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭TravellerGirl


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Nice delusional guesswork. You don't like the statistics and proof stuff so go for the personal and makey uppey. Classy.


    All Ireland Traveller Health Study
    Travellers as % of total in institution
    2002 5.9%
    2006 4.6%


    Now, try your best to answer without lame anecdotes or dreaming up some "run in" I've had to explain these proven facts.

    Yes that was for 2002 and 2006 great work at 2014 health study. Now could you do the same for the settled community.


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    #94
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Boring username wrote: »
    Can I remind everyone that travellergirl has taken the opportunity to stick her neck out here and engage with us on boards. I understand there are a lot of people who have had negative experiences with travellers, but don't use travellergirl as a punching bag for your frustrations. Please direct your anger to those who are committing crimes, and the people who make excuses for criminality. Ask your questions by all means, but keep it civil.
    Thanks again.
    Ah well, it's OK if she counters proven statistics with "you had a run in" then? No request for her to keep it civil I notice. Equality anybody?


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    #95
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    TravellerGirl wrote: »
    Yes that was for 2002 and 2006 great work at 2014 health study. Now could you do the same for the settled community.
    You seriously want me to look up whether 5% of the settled community are in prison, which would be the only way travellers wouldn't be over-represented in prisons?
    Seriously?

    http://www.iprt.ie/prison-facts-2
    2. The rate of imprisonment in Ireland is approximately 88 per 100,000 of population (Aug 2014)

    So c.5% of prisoners are travellers but only .088% of the total population is in jail?
    I must have had a run-in some time for these facts to exist, yes?


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    #96
    Right Turn Clyde
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭Right Turn Clyde


    mikemac1 wrote: »
    I hope your fiance is a good 'un TravellerGirl. Actually he doesn't even have to be good, just normal.

    Stay classy.


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    #97
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    TravellerGirl wrote: »
    No I can't give you that but if you are so smart at statistics why don't you give me it. I suppose whats wrong is that somewhere along the line something happened to you and you turned into a frightened judgemental little man. Poor you
    Still waiting for everyone here to pile in on these insults and defend me.
    Funny how the demands for civility and politeness only apply to one side of this debate isn't it?


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    #98
    TravellerGirl
    Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭TravellerGirl


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    You seriously want me to look up whether 5% of the settled community are in prison, which would be the only way travellers wouldn't be over-represented in prisons?
    Seriously?

    Oh I would like it if you could get the percentage of settled people in jail because you and I know that the Traveller Community that are in jail would only be a few towards the percentage of the settled community


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    #99
    Right Turn Clyde
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭Right Turn Clyde


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Still waiting for everyone here to pile in on these insults and defend me.
    Funny how the demands for civility and politeness only apply to one side of this debate isn't it?

    She shouldn't be insulting you. It's not a bit constructive. But look at some of the stuff you've said to her. For example, about Travellers burning down their houses and going on the piss. People don't like you because of some of the stuff you're saying, and they don't want to defend you. It's that simple. You've been insulting on a number of occasions, and now you'e crying foul when she's giving a little bit back.


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    #100
    TravellerGirl
    Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭TravellerGirl


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Still waiting for everyone here to pile in on these insults and defend me.
    Funny how the demands for civility and politeness only apply to one side of this debate isn't it?

    Why can't you talk for yourself instead of having others talking for you? What is wrong now I am a Traveller and I have settled people defending me on here and you don't like it. I guess not everyone is as judgemental and little minded as yourself


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    #101
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    TravellerGirl wrote: »
    Oh I would like it if you could get the percentage of settled people in jail because you and I know that the Traveller Community that are in jail would only be a few towards the percentage of the settled community
    I just did! Did you ignore or not understand.
    A travellers are at least 50 TIMES more likely to be in jail than the the average.
    Hang on, you do know the difference between absolute numbers and percentages?


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    #102
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #103
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Right Turn Clyde wrote: »
    She shouldn't be insulting you. It's not a bit constructive. But look at some of the stuff you've said to her. For example, about Travellers burning down their houses and going on the piss. People don't like you because of some of the stuff you're saying, and they don't want to defend you. It's that simple. You've been insulting on a number of occasions, and now you'e crying foul when she's giving a little bit back.
    Ah, so we're back here again. All comments on the travelling community can be taken personally and therefore deflected and no admission will ever be forthcoming about the problems travellers have.
    She said the settled community has problems... should I throw out the dummy and get a free pass the same way she has?


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    #104
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    TravellerGirl wrote: »
    Why can't you talk for yourself instead of having others talking for you? What is wrong now I am a Traveller and I have settled people defending me on here and you don't like it. I guess not everyone is as judgemental and little minded as yourself
    More gibberish. You want me to defend myself but funnily enough you're not telling your "buddies" here to stop helping you out.
    Have you got any stats yet or is this just another anecdote/waffle merry go round?


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    #105
    TravellerGirl
    Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭TravellerGirl


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    I just did! Did you ignore or not understand.
    A travellers are at least 50 TIMES more likely to be in jail than the the average.
    Hang on, you do know the difference between absolute numbers and percentages?

    No I don't because I'm as stupid as yourself. At least I don't need to find it out by the computers. But I guess if travellers are that bad I wonder what way we will be in 10 years time. At least the Travellers in jail are their doing time for minor things its not the same as those paedohiles and rapists now thats just plain wrong.


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    #106
    LordNorbury
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭LordNorbury


    TravellerGirl wrote: »
    Why can't you talk for yourself instead of having others talking for you? What is wrong now I am a Traveller and I have settled people defending me on here and you don't like it. I guess not everyone is as judgemental and little minded as yourself

    You should try being a settled person and living or operating a business nextdoor to a Dublin halting site, which is my situation. Every day is a battle to stop yourself being robbed by shams and idiots who spend their whole working week driving in and out of the industrial estates of Dublin looking for anything to rob, driving around I might add in 131 and 141 Transits and Hiaces that I could only dream about being able to buy for my own small business, and if it isn't that, it is DAILY anti social behaviour and intimidation from traveller children who should be in school if their parents were not so negligent and useless.


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    #107
    GLaDOS
    Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 23,220 Mod ✭✭✭✭GLaDOS


    Folks I've handed out a few cards to people who felt the need to make offensive comments. I'd like to not have to close the thread down, but if we go down the line of offensive gerneralisaitons, that's what's going to happen
    TravellerGirl wrote: »
    Why can't you talk for yourself instead of having others talking for you? What is wrong now I am a Traveller and I have settled people defending me on here and you don't like it. I guess not everyone is as judgemental and little minded as yourself

    Welcome to boards traveller girl. You're new here so I'll cut you a little slack, but I would ask you to read the forum charter, specifically that about personal abuse. The general rule is "attack the post, not the poster".

    If we can keep things civil we won't have a problem, if we can't, the thread will just be shut down

    Mod

    Cake, and grief counseling, will be available at the conclusion of the test



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    #108
    TravellerGirl
    Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭TravellerGirl


    LordNorbury wrote: »
    You should try being a settled person and living or operating a business nextdoor to a Dublin halting site, which is my situation. Every day is a battle to stop yourself being robbed by shams and idiots who spend their whole working week driving in and out of the industrial estates of Dublin looking for anything to rob, driving around I might add in 131 and 141 Transits and Hiaces that I could only dream about being able to buy for my own small business, and if it isn't that, it is DAILY anti social behaviour and intimidation from traveller children who should be in school if their parents were not so negligent and useless.

    You might be having problems with some travellers but that don't mean all Travellers are the same.


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    #109
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    TravellerGirl wrote: »
    No I don't because I'm as stupid as yourself.
    You don't know something I know because you're as stupid as me?
    I rest my case.


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    #110
    TravellerGirl
    Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭TravellerGirl


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    You don't know something I know because you're as stupid as me?
    I rest my case.

    I don't know what case your resting.


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    #111
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Shenshen wrote: »
    It's a sensible suggestion, but why do people in this thread focus on the girls so much? I understand the boys aren't much older in these situations.

    The Groom in question here is only 16, the Bride 17.


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    #112
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    TravellerGirl wrote: »
    Oh I would like it if you could get the percentage of settled people in jail because you and I know that the Traveller Community that are in jail would only be a few towards the percentage of the settled community

    Proportionally though, there would be a much higher rate of travellers in prisone. You must know this to be true. You say you aren't denying the issues but you are certainly playing them down.


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    #113
    LordNorbury
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭LordNorbury


    TravellerGirl wrote: »
    You might be having problems with some travellers but that don't mean all Travellers are the same.

    There is a serious problem in your community with the following:

    (1) Child education and traveller parents attitude towards having their children educated. This is not the fault of (1) the settled community, (2) the government (3) society, (4) or anyone else apart from traveller parents who don't give enough of a shít about their own children that they brought into the world, to ensure that their child's future and the potential of that child's future, is maximised through a sound basic education.

    (2) Traveller feuding and criminality.     Again, not the fault of (1) the settled community, (2) the government (3) society, (4) or anyone else apart from traveller people who can't envisage any other way of life that involves getting an education or a trade, holding down a job, paying tax and contributing to the society that we all live in. Traveller people very clearly want to be very much set apart from society and we have allowed useless quango's like Pavee Point and other pointless money wasting organisations, to dictate to us as a society, we have allowed them to dictate to the rest of us, the terms and conditions with regard to when they will participate in society (when they want special treatment from society), and then they dictate to us that with those privileges come ZERO responsibilities.

    (3) Tax avoidance. For a community that claims to have over 75% male unemployment, there appears to be an awful lot of cash knocking around for weddings and 131 and 141 Transit vans and as a taxpayer who is being crucified with a tax burden, I have a serious serious issue with that.

    As I said, try being a settled person for a week and trying to run a business near a halting site or living near a halting site, you have no idea how head wrecking it is.


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    #114
    Right Turn Clyde
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭Right Turn Clyde


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Ah, so we're back here again. All comments on the travelling community can be taken personally and therefore deflected and no admission will ever be forthcoming about the problems travellers have.
    She said the settled community has problems... should I throw out the dummy and get a free pass the same way she has?

    Don't include me in your conspiracy. The only point I have made against you is that you are also guilty of playing the man, not the ball. For the record, I appreciate TravellerGirl's input, but I'm not on anyone's side here. Read back through the handful of posts that I have made in relation to this issue and you'll see that I'm not pushing any agenda. Yes, I seem to be more accepting of Travellers, owing to my own personal experiences, but I'm not an apologist for them. I simply resent the nastiness that always accompanies this discussion. You have been guilty of it on a number of occasions. Read back through your posts and just look at how you speak to people. You're not a nice presence on here. TravellerGirl has been guilty of personal attacks on a few occasions, which was also wrong. You should both take a step back and compose yourselves. There's a discussion to be had here and it doesn't require insults and people being needlessly sharp with each other.


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    #115
    TravellerGirl
    Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭TravellerGirl


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    Proportionally though, there would be a much higher rate of travellers in prisone. You must know this to be true. You say you aren't denying the issues but you are certainly playing them down.

    Oh you have something to say aswell . Funny how you replied to a comment not meant for you but for dan_solo. Oh their are issues and I wont play them down. Their are criminals in my community but not as many as you think. My family and my fiances family don't look for trouble or have ever been in trouble with the lAw.


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    #116
    mahamageehad
    Registered Users Posts: 4,673 ✭✭✭mahamageehad


    I am not a traveller and I am not really interested in engaging in this debate but I wanted to address the point about women being marginalised and if this has been getting better over the years. Sure, you can quote domestic violence figures, and you wouldn't be wrong, but there have also been some good luck stories for women from the traveller community too. Sure you can argue that these are the minority, but you can't argue they don't exist.

    Case 1: Miss Kilkenny, Sarah Jane Dunne
    The first member of the Travelling community to take part in the Miss Ireland competition has now gone on to receive a Professional Diploma in Education from Trinity College. And stunner Sarah Jane Dunne secured a 2.1 grade.

    She will now go to London to work as a secondary school teacher, as well as keeping up her modelling career part-time.

    The 24-year-old hopes that getting her degree may inspire other women from her community to follow suit.

    Case 2: Kelly McDonagh-Mongan
    A YOUNG woman who shot to fame on the Voice of Ireland TV show has revealed she still lives in a caravan and does not have the money to buy musical equipment to work professionally.

    Kelly McDonagh-Mongan (20) made headlines last year when she was runner-up on the talent show, despite competing while pregnant.

    Kelly, from Fermoy, gave birth to son Bernie just days after she was narrowly beaten to the national title by fellow Co Cork singer, Keith Hanley.

    She is now the focus of an RTE documentary, What Kelly Did Next, to be screened next week -- and she hopes it will help her dream to work in the entertainment industry.

    Case 3: Traveller singers play Carnegie Hall
    IT TAKES generations to hone the kind of musical talent that two Traveller women will showcase in New York's Carnegie Hall this week.

    The women will appear at the world-famous venue to deliver a rendition of traditional songs handed down from mother to daughter across the years. But it was a thoroughly modern phenomenon that got them their big break -- a video clip posted on YouTube.

    Singers Selina O'Leary (19) from Tullow and Liz Connors (36) from Carlow will be performing a selection of songs handed down through Traveller families in front of an expected audience of up to 6,000 theatre-goers.


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    #117
    TravellerGirl
    Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭TravellerGirl


    Im very sorry if people found me ignorant or if you think I was insulting the settled community. I am not that type of person but he has hurt me wit some of he comments he has put. All travellers are not the same and all settled people are not the same. Its not nice to all be painted with the one brush


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    #118
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Right Turn Clyde wrote: »
    Don't include me in your conspiracy. The only point I have made against you is that you are also guilty of playing the man, not the ball.
    Any examples? Thought not.


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    #119
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    TravellerGirl wrote: »
    Oh you have something to say aswell . Funny how you replied to a comment not meant for you but for dan_solo.
    There a PM button for private conversations. Otherwise everything is open for discussion.


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    #120
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    mahamageehad wrote: »
    Sure you can argue that these are the minority, but you can't argue they don't exist.
    But it is beyond argument that they are anecdotal and therefore irrelevant in the face of statistics.


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    #121
    LordNorbury
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭LordNorbury


    TravellerGirl wrote: »
    Im very sorry if people found me ignorant or if you think I was insulting the settled community. I am not that type of person but he has hurt me wit some of he comments he has put. All travellers are not the same and all settled people are not the same. Its not nice to all be painted with the one brush

    This old chestnut. No, not all travellers are the same, however that line is being pushed torward far too often as an excuse for ongoing serious problems that are usually criminal in nature, that are regularly and consistently emerging from the travelling community that the rest of us are paying through the nose for. Start taking some responsibility for your own station in life and stop blaming everything from the settled community, to society, to the Gardai for the well known problems that exist within your own community.

    As for more requests for laws to be specially tailored now for travellers, where children should be allowed marry, forget about it is what I would suggest.


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