Pavee point in common sense shocker!

Sociopath2

end of the road wrote: »

its the fault for the parents for the children not attending school maybe, but its the fault of the school if the child doesn't do well in school. them getting more respect is nothing to do with them taking responsibility, its to do with bigotry, jealousy, and certain types being self righteous using anything at all to discriminate against travelers because they can. its our job to indulge them as they are a minority

It's our job to indulge them as they are a minority??

Wow, that sentence says all that will ever need to be said about you EOTR.

You really do live on another planet.

Shurimgreat

Really the only way to force parents to allow their children be properly educated is to charge them in the pocket.

A child consistently doesn't show up in school without a valid reason, then social welfare is curtailed unless and until the child gets a credible education. On the other side of the coin there should be supports in place.

I know the PC liberal leftie academic types would be outraged by this and by doing so would just entrench the problem. A good education should be a human right, enforced if nessecary, as children simply do not have the maturity to request it.

There should also be a form of affirmative action in support of Travellers.

Sociopath2

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Really the only way to force parents to allow their children be properly educated is to charge them in the pocket.

A child consistently doesn't show up in school without a valid reason, then social welfare is curtailed unless and until the child gets a credible education. On the other side of the coin there should be supports in place.

I know the PC liberal leftie academic types would be outraged by this and by doing so would just entrench the problem. A good education should be a human right, enforced if nessecary, as children simply do not have the maturity to request it.

There should also be a form of affirmative action in support of Travellers.

There's a lot of support for travellers in education and still more after they leave school to get them back in. They need to start putting some effort in.

They have become a community conditioned to having everything handed to them. I have dealt with a lot of travellers over the years and I have never met a single one with any drive to better themselves. They can put all the energy in the world into feuding and arguing between themselves but I've never met one with any ambition beyond the squalid rut they are stuck in.

eviltwin

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Really the only way to force parents to allow their children be properly educated is to charge them in the pocket.

A child consistently doesn't show up in school without a valid reason, then social welfare is curtailed unless and until the child gets a credible education. On the other side of the coin there should be supports in place.

I know the PC liberal leftie academic types would be outraged by this and by doing so would just entrench the problem. A good education should be a human right, enforced if nessecary, as children simply do not have the maturity to request it.

There should also be a form of affirmative action in support of Travellers.

This already exists. There is a 20 day absentee limit, after that the child is referred to an educational officer and the parents may end up in court. You can be sure that authorities only go for the soft targets. I know of two travellers families in my area where the kids consistently miss school and no one has interviened. There are also great supports there, back to school allowance for financial costs, family liaisons and most areas have traveller groups which offer support. There's no excuse apart from inertia and a bad attitude.

Sociopath2

end of the road wrote: »

its the fault for the parents for the children not attending school maybe, but its the fault of the school if the child doesn't do well in school. them getting more respect is nothing to do with them taking responsibility, its to do with bigotry, jealousy, and certain types being self righteous using anything at all to discriminate against travelers because they can. its our job to indulge them as they are a minority

You really need to explain that last sentence.

You come out with some real nonsense but you've outdone yourself here.

Please explain why it is our job to indulge Travellers because they are a minority?

Shurimgreat

There are many fine Travellers. In fact the majority of them are perfectly reasonable people. Yes they have their faults, alcoholism, broken marriages and so on, but as Travellergirl pointed out earlier, these issues are prevalent in settled communities too.

But there are also deep rooted problems among a sizeable minority of Travellers. There seems to be a sort of mafia like gang system operating, areas of control, well organised gangs, intimidation, violence, tit for tat murders and extravagant displays of unexplained wealth.

The community is stuck in something of a rut. Some individuals have taken steps to get themselves out of it despite massive peer pressure from their own community. Its not easy. Its never easy to go against the traditions of your own community.

RobYourBuilder

end of the road wrote: »

its the fault for the parents for the children not attending school maybe, but its the fault of the school if the child doesn't do well in school.

I failed Maths in the leaving. Not my fault! Crazy logic.

K4t

VinLieger wrote: »

LOL pavee point blaming anyone else but the actual travelers for a traveler problem im shocked

Ireland is a Catholic country and the majority of citizens identify themselves as Catholics. That the travelling community still believe in a lot of religious dogma that the rest of the country has managed to move on from, does not absolve the rest of us of responsibility. So no, it is not a traveller problem.

RobYourBuilder

K4t wrote: »

Ireland is a Catholic country

It most certainly is not.

K4t

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

It most certainly is not.

Yes, it is. The census says so. The majority might be Catholic in name only, but until they renounce that title, and until Ireland recognises itself as a truly secular state, then it is true to say that it is a Catholic country. And you cannot deny that is was a devoutly Catholic country up until recently, but people became educated and enlightened and moved on from its dogmatic beliefs; many became atheists while many simply chose to believe certain parts of the ideology while continuing to go to mass and say prayers and support the catholic church. Travellers didn't get the memo about the education and enlightenment part. Now you may argue that that is their own fault, but they are still citizens of this country, and they deserve our help. They deserve to be educated and to enjoy the same enlightenment as the rest of the country did. And as long as Ireland still places the Catholic church on a pedestal, gives it credence within its constitution, and its citizens call themselves Catholics even if in name only, it perpetuates the ideology and religion of Catholicism, which travellers still subscribe fundamentally to in relation to many things. A traveller problem is an Irish problem.

DrGreenthumb

Just aswell most travelers don't have internet they could end up bringing this site to a halt

K4t

DrGreenthumb wrote: »

Just aswell most travelers don't have internet they could end up bringing this site to a halt

That's quite witty; and a lot funnier than most of the pathetic traveller jokes on the first page of the thread.

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

I agree with your main point. I dream of a less religous nation. Regardless, we aren't a Catholic country.

Yes, we are. I hate that it is true as much as you, but it's important to acknowledge it and confront it, or else it will continue that way. It's no good saying Ireland isn't a Catholic country while the Catholic church continues to indoctrinate our children in state funded schools, influence our government on issues affecting all Irish citizens, and people continue to visit catholic churches every week en masse, a number which is on the rise again if you are to believe some. Ireland is a Catholic country; you can get used to it and attempt to change that fact, or you can bury your head and get down on your knees. And getting back to my original point about how this is not merely a traveller problem, the support for and popularity and dominance of the Catholic church in this country provides intellectual cover for travellers who continue to subscribe to its more fundamental beliefs. Nobody is absolved from this problem, not the Catholic church, not its followers, and certainly not atheists who proclaim that Ireland is not a Catholic country.

somuj

All the travellers I have met have been violent thieving toughs. Women included. Lived beside a traveller family once. Used to lend them my lawnmower and give them lifts when daddy was in jail.

One night went on the piss and left my car at the pub. Got woken from my drunken slumber on the couch by daddy and a few sons braking open my back window to try and rob me.

But I cant tar them all with the same brush :-P maybe some day I will meet a nice one or maybe even two.

vicwatson

Froshtbit wrote: »

As TravellerGirl has responded to stats with anecdotes, I'll give you one.

A long time ago, I was in school. There was a traveller lad in the year below me. On the rare occasions he came to school, he used to get up whenever he pleased and left class. The teacher would go after him and try and convince him to come back. This could take up to 20 minutes out of a 40 minute class.

After realising that he was wasting half his class time on one student, the teacher simply stopped trying and when the lad left the teacher would continue.

The school had rang his parents, given him detention, involved social services (although this was due to a number of other issues) to no avail.

This is not rhetorical and I do want an answer.. What should the school have done to help the lad? He disrupted class on an ongoing basis and was impossible to deal with. The school got zero assistance from his family. Not to mention the fact that there was 25 odd other students in the class who all needed teaching as well.

Id say every school has at least 1 of these pupils, its not fair on the rest of the class and the teacher, social services dont seem to do anything about it.

BunkMoreland

it took about five seconds before people portray them as inherent criminals who have sex with their sisters.

What's inaccurate about that?

K4t

BunkMoreland wrote: »

What's inaccurate about that?

It didn't take that long.

shruikan2553

DrGreenthumb wrote: »

Just aswell most travelers don't have internet they could end up bringing this site to a halt

I remember the things travelers say Facebook page, plenty of people saying innocent buffers while having a profile picture so orange it suggested they work in Wonka's chocolate factory so I would say internet access is quite common.

bjork

Traveller families forced into exodus after church carnage
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/traveller-families-forced-into-exodus-after-church-carnage-30993093.html


Those who suffer most from male feuding are innocent women and children from those clans. Traveller sources say bitter and long- lived blood feuds perpetuate fear and instability.

Traveller children making progress in full-time education are forced to move away from schools and fail to achieve literacy beyond early primary level. This instability further feeds into the severe social problems in the community, the sources said last week.







Was this issue mentioned at all. The men folk fighting and feuding and the children having to be taken out of school because of it?

The Backwards Man

I sold a traveller a house once, all legal and through the books, my solicitor commented it was the smoothest sale he ever worked on, no hitches at all.

TravellerGirl

Juanito13 wrote: »

Any idea why publicans have issues letting travellers into their pubs?

Well if you read my post properly you will see that we done nothing. So as I will say to you some of you settled people are just as troublesome as some travellers. You weren't born perfect neither were we. You don't know where you will end up in life or whom you will end up with.

Most of us leave school at an early age but that is not always our parents fault. No travellers these days rush their child into getting married. Yes there are some criminals and bad parents in the Traveller Community but I can bet that their is also some in the settled community.
We get married at what age we want to, if its young to you so be it but that is just a way of life for travellers. Travellers take care and look out for their children.

RobYourBuilder

TravellerGirl wrote: »

Most of us leave school at an early age but that is not always our parents fault.

It kinda f*cking is.

eviltwin

K4t wrote: »

Ireland is a Catholic country and the majority of citizens identify themselves as Catholics. That the travelling community still believe in a lot of religious dogma that the rest of the country has managed to move on from, does not absolve the rest of us of responsibility. So no, it is not a traveller problem.

That's a lame excuse. Many a settled person is deeply religious and doesn't marry their child off in their teens. Its robbing their children of a childhood and I hope the courts here don't facilitate it by granting marriage licences to the under 18's.

SEPT 23 1989

TravellerGirl wrote: »

Well if you read my post properly you will see that we done nothing. So as I will say to you some of you settled people are just as troublesome as some travellers. You weren't born perfect neither were we. You don't know where you will end up in life or whom you will end up with.

Most of us leave school at an early age but that is not always our parents fault. No travellers these days rush their child into getting married. Yes there are some criminals and bad parents in the Traveller Community but I can bet that their is also some in the settled community.
We get married at what age we want to, if its young to you so be it but that is just a way of life for travellers. Travellers take care and look out for their children.

Has 29% of the adult male population in the so called settled community gone through the Irish prison system?

Dan_Solo

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Has 29% of the adult male population in the so called settled community gone through the Irish prison system?

I think your wasting your time here. Every statistic is answered with an anecdote and they don't honestly know the difference.

Stheno

TravellerGirl wrote: »

Well if you read my post properly you will see that we done nothing. So as I will say to you some of you settled people are just as troublesome as some travellers. You weren't born perfect neither were we. You don't know where you will end up in life or whom you will end up with.

Most of us leave school at an early age but that is not always our parents fault. No travellers these days rush their child into getting married. Yes there are some criminals and bad parents in the Traveller Community but I can bet that their is also some in the settled community.
We get married at what age we want to, if its young to you so be it but that is just a way of life for travellers. Travellers take care and look out for their children.

Do you and your fiance work/pay taxes etc?

haveringchick

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Should this not be a matter for the government? Why is the Catholic Church being allowed to decide things like this?

They're not. It's just handy for Pavee to blame the RCC considering its the national pastime anyway.

Pumpkinseeds

bjork wrote: »

That's because they're fulfilling their jury duty!!!

:pac:

They're the reason I didn't fulfil mine;)

elastico

The only honest traveller is a dead one.

end of the road

Juanito13 wrote: »

Any idea why publicans have issues letting travellers into their pubs?

because they can get away with it as there are fewer of them compared to the settled community. if they had such bigotry toards the settled community they would be out of business. of course such publicans will be the ones crying poor mouth and will probably be involved in trying to rid the country of cheeper alternatives for drink, while turning away custom.

Froshtbit

elastico wrote: »

The only honest traveller is a dead one.

That's a bit OTT, wouldnt you say?