Tim Sherwood Confirmed As New Aston Villa Manager

COYVB

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Sure. In his time at Spurs his side looked devoid of ideas or purpose, I'd say toothless would be a fair way to describe them. On top of that his cartoonish antics on the touchline and in interviews only drew more negative attention to his team. When you see what Pochetinno is doing with basically the same group of players it's fairly obvious that Sherwood was incapable of getting the best from them. He seems like he's full of passion and might inspire some people with his sheer energy but I can't remember being overly impressed with him tactically.

Sherwoods record with spurs is better than pochettinos though?

CSF

COYVB wrote: »

Sherwoods record with spurs is better than pochettinos though?

Based on average points score would be about 5 points better off than Pocchetino at this stage of the season.

Pocchetino has a Spanish sounding sorta name though so you've no hope of getting AIG to see reason here.

Andersonisgod

CSF wrote: »

Based on average points score would be about 5 points better off than Pocchetino at this stage of the season.

Pocchetino has a Spanish sounding sorta name though so you've no hope of getting AIG to see reason here.

That's an odd statement, I mean from that I'd have to believe that you think that Sherwood is a better manager than Pochettino? Is the really the case?

One has done a good job at Espanyol, had an excellent time at Southampton and has begun to turn around a Spurs side that, last season, had been pretty dire. Sherwood managed to pick up points, though against bigger clubs his side looked toothless and there didn't seem to be much semblance of a plan. In comparison, you can clearly see that Pochettino is working towards something, that his tenure is a project with a defined style of play and an end goal. I would also argue that Mauricio Pochettino has taken Spurs to a cup final.

CSF

Andersonisgod wrote: »

That's an odd statement, I mean from that I'd have to believe that you think that Sherwood is a better manager than Pochettino? Is the really the case?

One has done a good job at Espanyol, had an excellent time at Southampton and has begun to turn around a Spurs side that, last season, had been pretty dire. Sherwood managed to pick up points, though against bigger clubs his side looked toothless and there didn't seem to be much semblance of a plan. In comparison, you can clearly see that Pochettino is working towards something, that his tenure is a project with a defined style of play and an end goal. I would also argue that Mauricio Pochettino has taken Spurs to a cup final.

I actually don't think we can make an accurate call on Sherwood. His team's don't look great but to date he has gotten results better than most of the managers we're gonna compare him to, including Pocchetino.

Give it another a year or so, and see how he does over a larger sample size, but so far so good.

Andersonisgod

CSF wrote: »

I actually don't think we can make an accurate call on Sherwood. His team's don't look great but to date he has gotten results better than most of the managers we're gonna compare him to, including Pocchetino.

Give it another a year or so, and see how he does over a larger sample size, but so far so good.

Perhaps there does need to be a larger sample size but equally saying he is a better manager than a genuinely gifted manager like Pochettino is madness. Also bringing up his points total as an argument is ridiculous, given that you yourself have outlined the small sample size of games we are working with, it's the equivalent of saying that Avram Grant is one of the great modern day managers based on his record as Chelsea boss. In my opinion, I feel very confident in saying Sherwood will be more Grant than Mourinho.

CSF

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Perhaps there does need to be a larger sample size but equally saying he is a better manager than a genuinely gifted manager like Pochettino is madness. Also bringing up his points total as an argument is ridiculous, given that you yourself have outlined the small sample size of games we are working with, it's the equivalent of saying that Avram Grant is one of the great modern day managers based on his record as Chelsea boss. In my opinion, I feel very confident in saying Sherwood will be more Grant than Mourinho.

I didn't say Sherwood was better than anyone. Just that his record so far has been very good and that the outright dismissals of him are nonsense as a result of that.

Neil3030

Norwich beat Villa 2-0 on the final day of the 11/12 season - Lambert appointed next Villa manager
Spurs beat Villa 3-0 on the final day of the 13/14 season - Sherwood appointed next Villa manager

I really hope Lerner gets to more than one game a season...

CSF

CSF wrote: »

I actually don't think we can make an accurate call on Sherwood.
...
Give it another a year or so, and see how he does over a larger sample size, but so far so good.

Please stop being sensible.

This is a football forum. We demand extreme views. Preferably made with limited information like managing a different club for just a few months. So is Sherwood a spoofer or a saviour, call it now man.

NukaCola

With Premier league football at stake I just dont see why Villa needed to take a gamble on Tim Sherwood.

Putting everything aside, he has only 5 months experience. It may pay off but its a big risk.

pavb2

NukaCola wrote: »

With Premier league football at stake I just dont see why Villa needed to take a gamble on Tim Sherwood.

Putting everything aside, he has only 5 months experience. It may pay off but its a big risk.

My take on this is that there was no stronger candidate available when you consider other names mentioned Avram Grant, Glen Hoddle, Curbishley, sol Campbell.

With the best will in the world we were never likely to get the likes of Laudrup or Klinsmann.

CSF

NukaCola wrote: »

With Premier league football at stake I just dont see why Villa needed to take a gamble on Tim Sherwood.

Putting everything aside, he has only 5 months experience. It may pay off but its a big risk.

I actually don't think Sherwood will struggle to keep Villa up. It's what comes after that Id be more nervous about but lets just see.

People mightnt think so, but with Benteke, Delph, Okore, Gil, Sanchez, Westwood, Guzan and Sinclair there, I think he actually has a pretty decent core to work with, relative to expectations.

listermint

CSF wrote: »

I actually don't think Sherwood will struggle to keep Villa up. It's what comes after that Id be more nervous about but lets just see.

People mightnt think so, but with Benteke, Delph, Okore, Gil, Sanchez, Westwood, Guzan and Sinclair there, I think he actually has a pretty decent core to work with, relative to expectations.

This.

Skylinehead

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Perhaps there does need to be a larger sample size but equally saying he is a better manager than a genuinely gifted manager like Pochettino is madness.

But calling him a

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Woeful manager

is obviously perfectly fine given the same sample size. You're hilariously hypocritical sometimes.

smileyj1987

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Delighted. Woeful manager but a gold mine of entertainment, something you couldn't say about Villa on the pitch.

Wow a woeful manager who has one of the best win rates as a spurs manager. The man fixed the mess that Jose's protege AVB left behind.

Richard Hillman

I think he did OK at Spurs. It is a very tough club to succeed in. There has been a bad culture around Spurs over the last number of years ( I could say decades). There has been a lot of career subs and people who just want to live in London so stick about at the club. It is very tough to turn a dressing room around from people who just want to exist to turning them into winners.

tastyt

I think he proved today what a great manager he is

Saipanne

tastyt wrote: »

I think he proved today what a great manager he is

Against the worst team in the premier league. Awesome.

Saipanne

tastyt wrote: »

You don't really understand sarcasm do you

Not in its poorly written form, no.

tastyt

Saipanne wrote: »

Not in its poorly written form, no.

Haha poor poor comeback.

CSF

I understand sarcasm, it's usually a bit more witty than that though.

CSF

tastyt wrote: »

Haha poor poor comeback.

We aren't 16 years old, it's not the schoolyard, it's a conversation about football. What is wrong with you?

tastyt

Sorry lads. Il go now and let ye play together

CSF

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I think he did OK at Spurs. It is a very tough club to succeed in. There has been a bad culture around Spurs over the last number of years ( I could say decades). There has been a lot of career subs and people who just want to live in London so stick about at the club. It is very tough to turn a dressing room around from people who just want to exist to turning them into winners.

You could actually probably thank Sherwood for the beginnings of turning that around.

Young hungry lads like Kane, Mason and Bentaleb who've featured heavily this year, all saw significantly more football under Sherwood if I'm not mistaken.

Alot easier for Pochettino to part with Soldado or Adebayor (who may well fall into that category) when he doesn't have to spend 20 mil on a replacement.

MrKingsley

CSF wrote: »

You could actually probably thank Sherwood for the beginnings of turning that around.

Young hungry lads like Kane, Mason and Bentaleb who've featured heavily this year, all saw significantly more football under Sherwood if I'm not mistaken.

Alot easier for Pochettino to part with Soldado or Adebayor (who may well fall into that category) when he doesn't have to spend 20 mil on a replacement.

Mason has only come in since pochettino has been there.

Sherwood gave Kane a run of games at the end of the season and Bentaleb was put in from the minute he got there.

Watching spurs all of last year was rotten. However I would agrue that at least with AVB there seemed to be a plan. From when sherwood came in it became uglier by the game.

I dont rate him that highly but he cant be properly judged after 5 months. Ridiculous

efb

Wrong man to keep them up

CSF

efb wrote: »

Wrong man to keep them up

How come?

DVDM93

CSF wrote: »

How come?

Too reliant on viagra.

Sheepy99

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Sure. In his time at Spurs his side looked devoid of ideas or purpose, I'd say toothless would be a fair way to describe them. On top of that his cartoonish antics on the touchline and in interviews only drew more negative attention to his team. When you see what Pochetinno is doing with basically the same group of players it's fairly obvious that Sherwood was incapable of getting the best from them. He seems like he's full of passion and might inspire some people with his sheer energy but I can't remember being overly impressed with him tactically.

Just to delve a bit away from whether or not he's up to it.
How does what you've described take away from a manager's credibility?
It's called passion. From what you're saying you prefer the recycled, generic statements and reactions that 80% of the league's managers spew out before/after games.

More managers should be harsh on their players when it's deserved, they're well paid players with egos, not socially awkward children who might recoil into a shell at the smallest bit of personal negativity. I think they can handle it.


And to reference a bit of your statement that I didn't place in bold, what you described would give fair weight to the opinion that Pochettino is better than Sherwood. Then again, that's why he's at Spurs and not Villa

Chancer3001

10 losses in 28 games is pretty poor.

But he sets his teams up to go for it.

Villa should be able to beat the teams in and around them in the table and that should see them stay up.

I'm trying to think who the alternative options for villa were....there aren't any good ones

Chancer3001

Sheepy99 wrote: »

Just to delve a bit away from whether or not he's up to it.
How does what you've described take away from a manager's credibility?
It's called passion. From what you're saying you prefer the recycled, generic statements and reactions that 80% of the league's managers spew out before/after games.

More managers should be harsh on their players when it's deserved, they're well paid players with egos, not socially awkward children who might recoil into a shell at the smallest bit of personal negativity. I think they can handle it.


And to reference a bit of your statement that I didn't place in bold, what you described would give fair weight to the opinion that Pochettino is better than Sherwood. Then again, that's why he's at Spurs and not Villa

Disagree. Confidence is everything to a player. Everything. Being harsh on a player will never build confidence. It may, sometimes, make a player work harder, and there's a fear factor that can create respect and extrinsic motivation, but all the harshness and "giving out" needs to be kept completely private.

Ferguson was one of the most famous harsh managers, hair dryer treatment etc, yet in 30 years managing he very very rarely slated any player publicly.

That's the right way to do it.

smileyj1987

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Sure. In his time at Spurs his side looked devoid of ideas or purpose, I'd say toothless would be a fair way to describe them. On top of that his cartoonish antics on the touchline and in interviews only drew more negative attention to his team. When you see what Pochetinno is doing with basically the same group of players it's fairly obvious that Sherwood was incapable of getting the best from them. He seems like he's full of passion and might inspire some people with his sheer energy but I can't remember being overly impressed with him tactically.

His behavior was no worse then some of the things you hero Jose came out with and yet you call out Sherwood on it.
Jose can park buses and behave how ever he pleases and you will call a win by him a master class in x , y or z. Yet Sherwood decides time to get the spurs players playing a simpler game and he is a woeful manager and the likes. I'll judge Sherwood when I see him work at a job long term and not only 5 months. But his record at spurs was good so he can't be a woeful manager.

CSF

Chancer3001 wrote: »

10 losses in 28 games is pretty poor.

But he sets his teams up to go for it.

Villa should be able to beat the teams in and around them in the table and that should see them stay up.

I'm trying to think who the alternative options for villa were....there aren't any good ones

It's a misleading stat though really. The points variance between a draw and a win, is double that between a draw and a loss.

Really though, points percentage is the only true stat as a measure.

pavb2

There are a lot of negative comments about Sherwood being the wrong man, not up to the job,lacks experience etc but I don't see many offering any viable alternatives or opinions on who they think could do a job for Villa

Andersonisgod

smileyj1987 wrote: »

His behavior was no worse then some of the things you hero Jose came out with and yet you call out Sherwood on it.
Jose can park buses and behave how ever he pleases and you will call a win by him a master class in x , y or z. Yet Sherwood decides time to get the spurs players playing a simpler game and he is a woeful manager and the likes. I'll judge Sherwood when I see him work at a job long term and not only 5 months. But his record at spurs was good so he can't be a woeful manager.

I'd like to note that so far in this thread I've seen Sherwood compared to Andre Villas Boas, who can boast a domestic league title and a Europa League success on his CV, I've seen comparisons to Mauricio Pochettino who has proven himself as one of the shrewdest managers about in quite a short career thus far, here's a comparison to Jose Mourinho who is, arguably, the greatest manager in modern football, all of these comparisons for a guy whose been in charge of a team for 5 months, who failed to impress anyone in that time in what his team produced on the pitch and whose claim to fame are his cringe post match interviewers and his close relationship with his gilet.

As I said earlier, it's the equivalent of saying that Avram Grant is one of the world's great coaches based on his win percentage at Chelsea, if you read stats without applying context you end up with a skewed perception.

I found his Spurs team devoid of ideas or purpose, I thought he brought only negativity with him with his antics, I can't actually pinpoint any real positives behind hiring him other than a potential boost in immediate results that always seem to come with the hiring of a new manager, once that wears off I feel very confident in saying that Villa has a managerial dud on their hands.

LuckyLloyd

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I think he did OK at Spurs. It is a very tough club to succeed in. There has been a bad culture around Spurs over the last number of years ( I could say decades). There has been a lot of career subs and people who just want to live in London so stick about at the club. It is very tough to turn a dressing room around from people who just want to exist to turning them into winners.

Also, the fans would also rather you lost 4 - 3 than win 1 - 0. I totally agree with you - a near impossible club to succeed at long term.

Sheepy99 wrote: »

Just to delve a bit away from whether or not he's up to it.
How does what you've described take away from a manager's credibility?
It's called passion. From what you're saying you prefer the recycled, generic statements and reactions that 80% of the league's managers spew out before/after games.

More managers should be harsh on their players when it's deserved, they're well paid players with egos, not socially awkward children who might recoil into a shell at the smallest bit of personal negativity. I think they can handle it.

Well said. Football fans seem to have been totally brainwashed into expecting complete and utter blandness from managers and want to hop over anything that hints at personality or character. What's even more bizarre are those who want total blandness and still consume all of that bland output.

I agree with CSF - if he's still in the job in the summer of 2016 and Villa are a Premiership club to go with it he'll have done well.

pavb2

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Also, the fans would also rather you lost 4 - 3 than win 1 - 0. I totally agree with you - a near impossible club to succeed at long term.



Well said. Football fans seem to have been totally brainwashed into expecting complete and utter blandness from managers and want to hop over anything that hints at personality or character. What's even more bizarre are those who want total blandness and still consume all of that bland output.

I agree with CSF - if he's still in the job in the summer of 2017 and Villa are a Premiership club to go with it he'll have done well.

If he's still in a job in the summer of 2015 and Villa are still a Premiership club he'll have done well

LuckyLloyd

pavb2 wrote: »

If he's still in a job in the summer of 2016 and Villa are still a Premiership club he'll have done well

Sorry yeah, that's what I meant.

CSF

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I'd like to note that so far in this thread I've seen Sherwood compared to Andre Villas Boas, who can boast a domestic league title and a Europa League success on his CV, I've seen comparisons to Mauricio Pochettino who has proven himself as one of the shrewdest managers about in quite a short career thus far, here's a comparison to Jose Mourinho who is, arguably, the greatest manager in modern football, all of these comparisons for a guy whose been in charge of a team for 5 months, who failed to impress anyone in that time in what his team produced on the pitch and whose claim to fame are his cringe post match interviewers and his close relationship with his gilet.

As I said earlier, it's the equivalent of saying that Avram Grant is one of the world's great coaches based on his win percentage at Chelsea, if you read stats without applying context you end up with a skewed perception.

I found his Spurs team devoid of ideas or purpose, I thought he brought only negativity with him with his antics, I can't actually pinpoint any real positives behind hiring him other than a potential boost in immediate results that always seem to come with the hiring of a new manager, once that wears off I feel very confident in saying that Villa has a managerial dud on their hands.

Your arguments are as bizarre as ever. Comparisons with VillasBoas and Pocchetino were made because they were the managers before and after him, as an indicator that his points percentage is better than both of theirs.

Y'know like facts, instead of your ramblings?

efb

CSF wrote: »

How come?

Lacking experience

COYVB

efb wrote: »

Lacking experience

Experience isn't everything. Pep Guardiola did alright without it

GavRedKing

COYVB wrote: »

Experience isn't everything. Pep Guardiola did alright without it

Pep Guardiola also took over a team with a small bit more talent than Villa.

I dont like Sherwood, but i wouldnt wanna see Villa relegated either.

Hes a bit of a character so will make press conferences, touchlines and post match interviews more lively, never a bad thing.

irishmover

MrKingsley wrote: »

Mason has only come in since pochettino has been there.

Sherwood gave Kane a run of games at the end of the season and Bentaleb was put in from the minute he got there.

Watching spurs all of last year was rotten. However I would agrue that at least with AVB there seemed to be a plan. From when sherwood came in it became uglier by the game.

I dont rate him that highly but he cant be properly judged after 5 months. Ridiculous

Just an FYI, Sherwood was the development head coach when these youngsters, and others were coming through.

I hope Sherwood keeps Villa up. But if he doesn't he cannot be to blaim when he inherited a side fighting relegation with 13 games to go outside of transfer windows. Give the guy a couple of seasons.

COYVB

Villas squad is a 9-12th place squad though. It's far better than it looked under Lambert

smileyj1987

CSF wrote: »

Your arguments are as bizarre as ever. Comparisons with VillasBoas and Pocchetino were made because they were the managers before and after him, as an indicator that his points percentage is better than both of theirs.

Y'know like facts, instead of your ramblings?

That's because a man like Sherwood isn't a magnificent and great footballing institution like the great Barcelona or he doesn't do a master class of tactics like Jose.

CSF

smileyj1987 wrote: »

That's because a man like Sherwood isn't a magnificent and great footballing institution like the great Barcelona or he doesn't do a master class of tactics like Jose.

I think it's important that the argument doesn't get misconstrued in any case. Not saying Sherwood is the messiah, that he's better than manager A or manager B. Just that he's done well in his short managerial career to date rendering the unsubstantiated criticisms of him absolutely nonsense.

irishmover

CSF wrote: »

I think it's important that the argument doesn't get misconstrued in any case. Not saying Sherwood is the messiah, that he's better than manager A or manager B. Just that he's done well in his short managerial career to date rendering the unsubstantiated criticisms of him absolutely nonsense.

I do want Sherwood to succeed but, he did not really do all that well for Spurs. Infact they played pretty awful football under him. Alot of us fans expected the worst if he was managing this year. Levy knew that and made the change. Watching the team week in week out the writing was on the wall for alot of us. It was a step too high for him at that point. He done some great things at the club, mainly youth development though I think he tries to do the right things and shows fantastic passion. He done a good job for us but he could never have held spurs at this level or won the games Poch did this season.

He had frozen out a number of players who this season are extremely important to our cause.

BUT, I dont hold any grudges on him. I wanted him to do well for us as I do actually like the guy and think he's got a bright future ahead of him. Which I hope starts with keeping Villa up and then transforming them into a side worthy of the clubs status. After all their points haul is much higher than Tottenham's. It would be a sorry day to see Villa go down.

If he's given some time expect to see some young players arrive at the club. I'm sure he'd fancy a few of spurs' youngsters. He has a knack for developing talent.

TheCitizen

irishmover wrote: »

Just an FYI, Sherwood was the development head coach when these youngsters, and others were coming through.

I hope Sherwood keeps Villa up. But if he doesn't he cannot be to blaim when he inherited a side fighting relegation with 13 games to go outside of transfer windows. Give the guy a couple of seasons.

Sherwood wont get a couple of seasons if they are relegated, he'll be sacked immediately.

There is no way they should go down, there are at least 3 teams if not more worse than them in the EPL this season. Defensively they appear to be fairly sound, all they need is someone to spark them to life a bit and score a few goals. If they go down, Sherwood would be gone too. The last time Aston Villa got relegated was 1987.

irishmover

TheCitizen wrote: »

Sherwood wont get a couple of seasons if they are relegated, he'll be sacked immediately.

There is no way they should go down, there are at least 3 teams if not more worse than them in the EPL this season. Defensively they appear to be fairly sound, all they need is someone to spark them to life a bit and score a few goals. If they go down, Sherwood would be gone too. The last time Aston Villa got relegated was 1987.

Yeh that's fair enough. They're a mid table squad so with a bit of confidence they really should stay up. If it does happen that they do go down it would be a shame if Sherwood got the boot.

CSF

TheCitizen wrote: »

Sherwood wont get a couple of seasons if they are relegated, he'll be sacked immediately.

There is no way they should go down, there are at least 3 teams if not more worse than them in the EPL this season. Defensively they appear to be fairly sound, all they need is someone to spark them to life a bit and score a few goals. If they go down, Sherwood would be gone too. The last time Aston Villa got relegated was 1987.

Given Lerner's patience to date, Id be shocked if he was sacked if Villa go down.

It'll be blamed on Lambert (possibly rightly so) and he will get a chance to go up at the first attempt, the success of which would determine whether he kept his job

eagle eye

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I'd like to note that so far in this thread I've seen Sherwood compared to Andre Villas Boas, who can boast a domestic league title and a Europa League success on his CV, I've seen comparisons to Mauricio Pochettino who has proven himself as one of the shrewdest managers about in quite a short career thus far, here's a comparison to Jose Mourinho who is, arguably, the greatest manager in modern football, all of these comparisons for a guy whose been in charge of a team for 5 months, who failed to impress anyone in that time in what his team produced on the pitch and whose claim to fame are his cringe post match interviewers and his close relationship with his gilet.

As I said earlier, it's the equivalent of saying that Avram Grant is one of the world's great coaches based on his win percentage at Chelsea, if you read stats without applying context you end up with a skewed perception.

I found his Spurs team devoid of ideas or purpose, I thought he brought only negativity with him with his antics, I can't actually pinpoint any real positives behind hiring him other than a potential boost in immediate results that always seem to come with the hiring of a new manager, once that wears off I feel very confident in saying that Villa has a managerial dud on their hands.

I'd like to point out in this thread that I've often defended you and like reading your posts on Barcelona but you've really been shown in a different light in this thread.

You really don't seem to have a clue if you are calling Sherwood a poor manager based on his time at Tottenham.

When he took over there they had 27 points from 16 games, they finished the season with 72 points. Under him they managed to achieve 45 points from 22 games. There is a massive difference in the form they showed under AVB that season and what happened under Sherwood.
He also gave the young players a chance like Kane and Bentaleb who clearly benefited from the experience. He even got Adebayor playing good football again which nobody else seems to have achieved in quite some time.

The man had no experience as a manager when he took over that job but he did very well there.