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I don't see many people who hate Muslims here. I see people who are afraid the spread of Islam in Europe will reduce their freedom and negatively impact people's lifestyles.
Agree with them or not, but it is a different thing.
how could Islam possibly strangle people's freedom. I'm genuinely curious about this. European countries are secular and there is a separation of state and faith. If a religion or faith system encroaches on my right to live my life then I'll be picking up a gun. Unfortunately if the majority of my countrymen disagree with me then I'll probably just suck it up as I will be fighting a doomed battle.0 -
Irish Praetorian wrote: »Right I'm going to enjoy myself here and let loose. First off, Roma gypsies moving to Ireland? Well I dunno, I suppose I always presumed that they hard things like cars and airplanes in Romania and seeing as the Roma community is spread across the borders of several Eastern European states, that the idea of moving to another country isn't that out of the ordinary, especially considering so many of their national peers are moving across the EU for economic reasons - but no I'm seeing it now, its FAR more likely that they stood around waiting for a bunch of Jews to come and do their paperwork because that makes sense and of course being Roma they are unfamiliar with the concept of writing...
Actually I tend not to watch Hollywood films, they largely approach history with a very 'theatrical' mindset that doesn't value accuracy. It's a small quibble of mine having spent the best part of a decade engaging in historical research and working with professional academics - but then again truth be told, my grandparents must have forgotten to give me the 'Jews run the world' life lesson...
Also, angry right-winger aged late-teens to late-twenties, convinced that the rest of the world consisted of deluded idiots; are you trying to be a parody, is this a joke I'm not getting?
Ashkenazi Jews actually make up 75% of the global Jewish population, but actually make up a little under half the Israeli Jewish population, with most of the other half being Sephardic Jews, a term we traditionally use in place of 'the ones with brown skin'. As for their origins ethnic or otherwise, I fail to see how that bears any relevance to Israel or its actions.
Well thank goodness you've arrived to save the day, I'm sure this is exactly what we need to deal with the book waving radicalised-Islamists constantly banging on about how their religious faith is pure and how they have a divine mandate to, oh wait a minute...
Why do you equate Roma gypsies to Romania - another common misconception. Roma people and Romania have absolutely nothing to do with one another - Roma Gypsies are a travelling community descended from INDIA who settled in Eastern Europe and now: most of Europe. The fact that the state is not deporting these migrants means they are LEGALLY here and did not just hop on a plane for Ireland.
And I am not saying that the rest of the world are idiots in anyway - of course they are capable of filing out the paper work needed to get here. What I'm stating is that there is people who create these immigration programmes to allow outsiders into the country. Ethnic groups are not in charge of the immigration programmes which allow them into Europe.
Let's be realistic, the Ashkenazi Jews were/are the No.1 driving force for the creation of Israel, their influence in Western Governments and Banks cannot be denied. Banks finance WAR. You do realise the Jews did not fight for the holy Land themselves - it is Britain, France and Russia puppet leaders did it for them. And does the absolute unanimous support for Israel from the USA not ring any alarm bells? You are truly ignorant if you think it's nice White folk in the American government who are behind this.
And I used bible quotes to back up my statements of what is happening in our world. But thanks for your smart-ass comments.0 -
Iran actually has the largest population of Jews in the region outside of Israel. One would think that all that rubbish about Ahmedinejad and the ayatollahs aiming to "wipe Israel off the map and kill all Jews" would have started with a campaign of genocide at home first. Strange how the Jews of Iran love their Persian homeland and frequently rail against headbangers like Netanyahu when he rants like an unhinged lunatic against Iran in "the name of Jews worldwide".
To be fair the Jews that remain would damn well want to love the country they live in, considering the number of them in the country has fallen from about 80,000 before the revolution to just under 10,000 today.0 -
how could Islam possibly strangle people's freedom. I'm genuinely curious about this. European countries are secular and there is a separation of state and faith. If a religion or faith system encroaches on my right to live my life then I'll be picking up a gun. Unfortunately if the majority of my countrymen disagree with me then I'll probably just suck it up as I will be fighting a doomed battle.
You could argue it has already started. If I was a European cartoonist who had ever made a drawing related to Islam, I would think twice about doing it again (and I would possibly have a policeman next to me 24h a day to protect me and help me think about it). Same cartoonist 20 years ago would probably have been laughing if you had told them a drawing about any religion could have had them killed.
That is a pretty big change of paradigm for cartoonists accross the continent (or for anyone who tends to publicly criticise or make fun of religions in general), and it was cleary brought by Islam.0 -
Irish Praetorian wrote: »To be fair, I mock but really I should be more understanding. Mid-teens to late-twenties is usually the part of persons life where mental illness starts to emerge and become present, particularly things like psychosis which involves paranoid delusions of having enemies, being one of the few people 'in the know' and anticipation of a coming 'great struggle'. In other-words, its about the time when people 'discover' (or rediscover) their faith or start to adopt more hard-line political opinions or just go plain crazy. I think its one of the reasons I follow debates like this - I like the idea of trying to smack some sense into people like that and trying to shake them out of these delusions.
There is no need to belittle me to give your self the "right" point of view. I don't think I'm in the know I'm just giving my honest opinion. You implying I have mental illness and paranoid delusions is a lame tactic to give yourself the upper-hand in an argument. The world has changed drastically in the last century and contrary to popular belief not everything is innocent social progress or for the betterment of mankind. Very condescending post - Thank you.
And to your previous post - The ethnic origin of Ashkenazi Jews is very significant. Especially since they go around calling themselves the chosen ones. And use buzz terms like anti-Semitism to deflect criticism of their actions when in fact they are not of Semite origin or a Semite people whatsoever lol..0 -
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engineerbrah wrote: »Why do you equate Roma gypsies to Romania - another common misconception. Roma people and Romania have absolutely nothing to do with one another - Roma Gypsies are a travelling community descended from INDIA who settled in Eastern Europe and now: most of Europe. The fact that the state is not deporting these migrants means they are LEGALLY here and did not just hop on a plane for Ireland.
And I am not saying that the rest of the world are idiots in anyway - of course they are capable of filing out the paper work needed to get here. What I'm stating is that there is people who create these immigration programmes to allow outsiders into the country. Ethnic groups are not in charge of the immigration programmes which allow them into Europe.
To be fair you brought up the Roma community, you insinuated they were here as part of some Jewish plot, if you want to make a statement or a claim then do so, but so far nothing I said has been wrong.Let's be realistic, the Ashkenazi Jews were/are the No.1 driving force for the creation of Israel, their influence in Western Governments and Banks cannot be denied. Banks finance WAR. You do realise the Jews did not fight for the holy Land themselves - it is Britain, France and Russia puppet leaders did it for them. And does the absolute unanimous support for Israel from the USA not ring any alarm bells? You are truly ignorant if you think it's nice White folk in the American government who are behind this.
Askhenazis the driving force in the creation of Israel - fair enough. Influence in the banks and world governments - that's a standard trope from extremists, why don't you prove it? As for Israeli's not fighting for Israel, well I dunno, who the hell was fighting the 67 War then? The 73 War, the 48 War, the 56 War, heck the current fighting? Do you not think if the world was so far in the take of this 'Jewish Lobby' that they might have hung around in 1948 when Israel came closest to destruction? I want to know why on earth I should take you're reckonings on Jewish conspiracies for the creation of Israel over conventional academics?And I used bible quotes to back up my statements of what is happening in our world. But thanks for your smart-ass comments.
Its not smart ass, you're doing exactly the same kind of appeal to a holy text which these radicalised Islamists do and then decry a third party for supposedly orchestrating the entry of these people into Europe where they do the exact same thing you do.engineerbrah wrote: »There is no need to belittle me to give your self the "right" point of view. I don't think I'm in the know I'm just giving my honest opinion. You implying I have mental illness and paranoid delusions is a lame tactic to give yourself the upper-hand in an argument. The world has changed drastically in the last century and contrary to popular belief not everything is innocent social progress or for the betterment of mankind. Very condescending post - Thank you.
Oh spare yourself the martyrdom, I don't think I've entered a single debate in my life without an opponent claiming some kind of moral superiority, be it a value for human life, for the law, historical precedent etc. Nothing I've written makes a better case for you're own paranoid delusions than what you posted.And to your previous post - The ethnic origin of Ashkenazi Jews is very significant. Especially since they go around calling themselves the chosen ones. And use buzz terms like anti-Semitism to deflect criticism of their actions when in fact they are not of Semite origin or a Semite people whatsoever lol..
I thought the spiel of 'chosen ones' was something to do with faith rather than racial origin? The semite-anti-semite debate is pure semantics (no pun intended).0 -
Shurimgreat wrote: »I don't hate Muslims, I hate Islam. In a free country, people should be free to hate what they want. You can't force anyone to like anything.
Could you explain why or what specifically it is you hate about Islam? This isn't a trick question or anything. I'm not religious or spiritual myself but I'm curious to know from whence your hatred stems.0 -
engineerbrah wrote: »There is no need to belittle me to give your self the "right" point of view. I don't think I'm in the know I'm just giving my honest opinion. You implying I have mental illness and paranoid delusions is a lame tactic to give yourself the upper-hand in an argument. The world has changed drastically in the last century and contrary to popular belief not everything is innocent social progress or for the betterment of mankind. Very condescending post - Thank you.
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It was quite a polite post really. Your are posting classic examples of crude anti-Semitism.0 -
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It was quite a polite post really. Your are posting classic examples of crude anti-Semitism.
How can my criticism of Ashkenzai Jews be anti-Semitism if they are not Semites? I have stated this already - They are a Khazarian tribe from the steppes of Russia who adopted Judaism - Their DNA is similar to Turkic people, they are not semites...
ww w.darkmoon.me/2013/top-israeli-scientist-says-ashkenazi-jews-came-from-khazaria-not-palestine/
Anti-Semitism is a buzz phrase that has lost all meaning and you like everyone else follows it blindly0 -
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engineerbrah wrote: »How can my criticism of Ashkenzai Jews be anti-Semitism if they are not Semites? I have stated this already - They are a Khazarian tribe from the steppes of Russia who adopted Judaism - Their DNA is similar to Turkic people, they are not semites...
ww w.darkmoon.me/2013/top-israeli-scientist-says-ashkenazi-jews-came-from-khazaria-not-palestine/
Anti-Semitism is a buzz phrase that has lost all meaning and you like everyone else follows it blindly
The same reason we use homophobia to describe people who despise homosexuals rather than literally are in fear of them, words and phrases evolve. Same way people are described as 'gay' today without necessarily being in any way happy or cheerful; Anti-Semitism is simply the etymological evolution of how we describe anti-Jewish sentiment regardless of ethnic origin. Simply put, whatever you make of the origin of Ashkenazi Jews, I'm not sure despising them is any less reprehensible if their ancestors were Khazars or Kyrgyz.0 -
Irish Praetorian wrote: »To be fair you brought up the Roma community, you insinuated they were here as part of some Jewish plot, if you want to make a statement or a claim then do so, but so far nothing I said has been wrong.
Askhenazis the driving force in the creation of Israel - fair enough. Influence in the banks and world governments - that's a standard trope from extremists, why don't you prove it? As for Israeli's not fighting for Israel, well I dunno, who the hell was fighting the 67 War then? The 73 War, the 48 War, the 56 War, heck the current fighting? Do you not think if the world was so far in the take of this 'Jewish Lobby' that they might have hung around in 1948 when Israel came closest to destruction? I want to know why on earth I should take you're reckonings on Jewish conspiracies for the creation of Israel over conventional academics?
Its not smart ass, you're doing exactly the same kind of appeal to a holy text which these radicalised Islamists do and then decry a third party for supposedly orchestrating the entry of these people into Europe where they do the exact same thing you do.
Oh spare yourself the martyrdom, I don't think I've entered a single debate in my life without an opponent claiming some kind of moral superiority, be it a value for human life, for the law, historical precedent etc. Nothing I've written makes a better case for you're own paranoid delusions than what you posted.
I thought the spiel of 'chosen ones' was something to do with faith rather than racial origin? The semite-anti-semite debate is pure semantics (no pun intended).
List of Banks owned by one extended Jewish family:
https:// europeanmediacentre.wordpress.com/2013/09/02/list-of-banks-owned-by-the-jewish-rothschild-family/
It is not even a secret I don't know why you are trying to deny this fact. The FED reserve in America has been run by Jews since it's existence.
Considering they make-up like 0.2% of the worlds population they seem to be over-represented no?0 -
Shurimgreat wrote: »The Charlie Hebdo cartoonists also hated Islam not Muslims. Do you understand the distinction.
Do you also understand that Islam is an ideology? Do you understand that it is a human right to criticise any ideology.
I'm guessing you are left wing. I'm guessing also you think its ok to criticise failed ideologies such as communism and nazism but not the equally failed ideology of Islam.
In other words I am proud to criticise what I like, and make no apologies to anyone about that.
Islam is NOT an ideology. It is a set of beliefs. Communism is NOT an ideology. It is an economic model. Fascism is NOT an ideology. It is a socio-political governance model.
But in your dreadful attempt at equating the aforementioned I notice you conveniently omit colonialism, imperialism and racism in your list of "isms".0 -
Irish Praetorian wrote: »The same reason we use homophobia to describe people who despise homosexuals rather than literally are in fear of them, words and phrases evolve. Same way people are described as 'gay' today without necessarily being in any way happy or cheerful; Anti-Semitism is simply the etymological evolution of how we describe anti-Jewish sentiment regardless of ethnic origin. Simply put, whatever you make of the origin of Ashkenazi Jews, I'm not sure despising them is any less reprehensible if their ancestors were Khazars or Kyrgyz.
So you think "Anti-Semitism" exists because of their religious beliefs? Dude....come on. You dismissing the importance of ethnic origin implies this. All the expulsions of Jews from States in Europe throughout the centuries have been unjust and purely due to the "evil white man"?
All those countries were in the wrong and the Jews have been the innocent victims all along?0 -
Coming back to the original topic.
I can't find much information about the killer apart from the fact that he is a 22 years old man born in Denmark.
Also, demonstrations currently happening in front of the Danish embassy in Paris - people connecting to last month's events by saying "Jer er Dansk" or "Je suis Danois" - I am Danish.0 -
MOD: Take a little time off. I think you need it.engineerbrah wrote: »So you think "Anti-Semitism" exists because of their religious beliefs? Dude....come on. You dismissing the importance of ethnic origin implies this. All the expulsions of Jews from States in Europe throughout the centuries have been unjust and purely due to the "evil white man"?
All those countries were in the wrong and the Jews have been the innocent victims all along?0 -
Were quotation marks around the word victim really necessary? These people were killed for drawings.
With regards to your second point, the had issues with other religions as much as Islam and have expressed them throughout their careers. No one "eventually knocked them on their arse" (as you describe it) in the name of the Christianaty or Judaism.
But who killed them? Highly trained killers or bumbling fools?0 -
Coming back to the original topic.
I can't find much information about the killer apart from the fact that he is a 22 years old man born in Denmark.
Also, demonstrations currently happening in front of the Danish embassy in Paris - people connecting to last month's events by saying "Jer er Dansk" or "Je suis Danois" - I am Danish.
Other then the fact that he is believed to be acting alone, the individual was known to the police in connection with criminal gangs and had convictions for violent offences and dealing in weapons*, little more information is available.
*http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-314809210 -
engineerbrah wrote: »Let's be realistic, the Ashkenazi Jews were/are the No.1 driving force for the creation of Israel, their influence in Western Governments and Banks cannot be denied. Banks finance WAR. You do realise the Jews did not fight for the holy Land themselves - it is Britain, France and Russia puppet leaders did it for them. And does the absolute unanimous support for Israel from the USA not ring any alarm bells? You are truly ignorant if you think it's nice White folk in the American government who are behind this.
This isn't really historically true. The Cold War is probably the biggest reason for American support of Israel. And even then, it was only once Soviet backed neighbours, Egypt in particular, were looking like they may win the Yom Kippur war in 1973 that any sort of notable military aid began to flow to Israel. It was something the Americans had tried to avoid because they knew how well the Arabs would take this - see the oil crisis that followed.
US foreign policy is generally pretty pragmatic and efficient - but mostly it is comprehensively self-serving. To think that anything other than the balance of power brought Israel and the US together is to fail to see the bigger picture.0 -
No sympathy for people being killed for drawing satire?
Anti Islam is perfectly acceptable. Just like anti any religion.
They deliberately printed what the knew was going to cause offence or insult to the point of violent backlash.
A man in Spain recently lashed back and killed a guy for allegedly photographing his daughter in a restaurant. The majority consensus seems to be that the guy with the iPad deserved his death. He wasn't doing anything technically illegal other than pissing off of a father who kicked off and killed him with a punch. Likewise these Hebdo cartoonists haven't done anything technically illegal but they have stirred a hatred that they knew they were stirring and died for it. I don't condone the photographing of a young girl or printing insulting and inflammatory cartoons any more or less than I abhor and condemn the killings that such actions have spawned.
It seems that a lot of people don't give a toss about freedom of speech or freedom of anything for that matter but want the freedom to insult people they don't like just so they can claim the recipients of the insult and denigration are the primitive ones.0 -
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Defender OF Faith wrote: »Other then the fact that he is believed to be acting alone, the individual was known to the police in connection with criminal gangs and had convictions for violent offences and dealing in weapons*, little more information is available.
*http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31480921
Danish TV now naming him as Omar Abdel Hamid el-Hussein.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/denmark/11413226/Copenhagen-shooting-during-debate-on-Islam.html0 -
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DavidRamsay99 wrote: »The gloves have to come off. Islamic fundamentalists need to be smashed into the ground. There has to be no mercy.
FCUK YEAH, DAVID!
FCUK YEAAAAHH!0 -
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Probably no direct connection, but French interior minister announced from Copenhagen that a Jewish cemetery has just been vandalised near Strasbourg with hundred of graves defaced.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/02/15/us-france-tombs-idUSKBN0LJ118201502150 -
Donkey Oaty wrote: »Danish TV now naming him as Omar Abdel Hamid el-Hussein.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/denmark/11413226/Copenhagen-shooting-during-debate-on-Islam.html
Yes I further came across this article http://heavy.com/news/2015/02/omar-el-hussein-copenhagen-denmark-shooter-shootings/ that briefly goes over his details.
The guy has a sick and twisted record, I dont know why a person released from jail two weeks ago after serving a term for aggravated assault, would be allowed to walk the streets and interact with the wider society without surveillance.0 -
Defender OF Faith wrote: »I dont know why a person released from jail two weeks ago after serving a term for aggravated assault, would be allowed to walk the streets and interact with the wider society without surveillance.
This type of question was asked after the Paris attacks. Most experts I saw on TV basically said there has been too many of these guys in the past few years and monitoring one of them properly requires about 20 full time police officers (if you want to analyse all their phone and online activities and have enough resources to be able to follow them anywhere they go anytime of the day without being noticed while being sure not to lose them). So basically they said it is simply financially not possible to track all of them and police services have to make choices and take chances.0 -
Shurimgreat wrote: »We saw what bombing muslims did in Iraq and elsewhere. It simply does not work, is completely counter productive and gives them an even bigger cause to fight for. Waste of time.
Germany and Japan after being pounded into submission were also occupied for decades afterward. South Korea also has US troops on its soil. Vietnam fell to communism after US troops were pulled out. Half of Iraq fell to ISIS after US troops were pulled out. See the obvious pattern?
Therefore to defeat Islamists requires an initial overwhelming bombardment followed by occupation for decades to civilize them.
There is no other way.
Smash the acorn now or burn down the oak forest tomorrow.
Pick your preferred option.0 -
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Where will all this madness end?? And innocent people are dying because of a combination of shear hatred and total irresponsibility. As said before, there are two main issues at play here:
1. Evil terrorists like ISIS and al Qaeda have a complete disregard for everyone. They kill innocent people deliberately and rule with an iron fist imposing barbaric laws on the people they control.
2. Responsibility: free speech is all well and grand but sometimes things are said that lead to the deaths of innocents. Unfortunately, the likes of ISIS and al Qaeda do exist and are only waiting for the opportunity and then some poor girl in the office doing admin work or some poor businessman visiting the paper's headquarters gets killed because of some journalists or cartoonists stupidity and of course the paper's decision to publish something.
I respect free speech but respect life and safety far more. Free speech has of late become a byword for the 'right' to offend, mock or make what are racist and sectarian remarks. A paper in Europe mocks Mohammed, a paper in the Middle East or North Africa mock the holocaust. Some inexperienced idiot says this and that and more and more hate is all we see. Through free speech, we see the demon of racism and superiority raise its ugly head once more.
Papers have become too strong, opinion (and often racist opinion) seems to predominate more than news, and all this has only fueled hatred and mistrust. If ISIS and al Qaeda want to portray the West as racist and sectarian, they get the propaganda.
If a paper attracts dangerous killers and puts its employees and indeed neighbours at risk, there is a duty of care. Free speech is a right but we should have responsible free speech and papers should show more maturity in how they report on things.0
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