Shooting in Demark

Shurimgreat

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Works on paper, Just problem is you have nut jobs interpreting it like all other Religions. Currently acting up more than the rest yes, Historically no. We need to find middle ground and find out why people radicalise. Radicals don't use the normal teachings. It's like blaming all of Christianity for wesbro.

Sorry..the problem is Islam...like I said lets call a spade a spade. Forget about terrorism here or elsewhere.

Even non terrorist practisers and clerics of islam bring misery to their own areas countries and regions. They make rules which bring misery to entire countries.

Agreed?

See sense, that's all I ask.

Its controversial to say that but its a truth no-one can argue with.

K4t

wretcheddomain wrote: »

The ordinary Muslim in Europe cannot be, under any reasonable circumstances, equated with the extremist - in exactly the same way reasonable opponents of Islamism are not against the presence of Muslims.

Very true. But it is also true that you can be extreme in your hate for Islam without being in any way hateful of Muslim people, because that is what they are, people just like you or I or anyone else. To hate Islam is not to hate Muslims.

Shurimgreat

wretcheddomain wrote: »

I dislike Islam - the religion, not the followers.

You are espousing, in other words, the very extremism you profess to deplore.

The ordinary Muslim in Europe cannot be, under any reasonable circumstances, equated with the extremist - in exactly the same way reasonable opponents of Islamism are not against the presence of Muslims.

I'd prefer to distance myself from both flavours of extremism.

Note: Will someone with divine cyber-powers please rename the title of the thread, as I'm pretty certain Demark is not a member of the UN.

What are you talking about? You have completely confused what I said. I never made any comment about the ordinary muslim. Read my post again.

wretcheddomain

bjork wrote: »

Hardline Muslims are rioting in every country in Europe. Ireland is the only one I can think of that hasn't has riots.

I'm as uncomfortable as you about rioting Muslims, and find those participating in such acts beneath contempt.

However, even those rioting are a small minority.

A small minority of protestants in Northern Ireland riot, but this does not mean all protestants in Northern Ireland must leave the territory.

darkpagandeath

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Sorry..the problem is Islam...like I said lets call a spade a spade. Forget about terrorism here or elsewhere.

Even non terrorist practisers and clerics of islam bring misery to their own areas countries and regions. They make rules which bring misery to entire countries.

Agreed?

See sense, that's all I ask.

Its controversial to say that but its a truth no-one can argue with.

Nail on the head they not the religion, People in power like to keep power.

wretcheddomain

K4t wrote: »

Very true. But it is also true that you can be extreme in your hate for Islam without being in any way hateful of Muslim people, because that is what they are, people just like you or I or anyone else. To hate Islam is not to hate Muslims.

I wholeheartedly agree.

There tends to be a nasty undercurrent of hate toward Muslims fomenting in European society, and this can only foster yet more antagonism.

What's required is for ordinary, moderate Muslims to team up with everyone else against the common enemy of extremism. Many Muslims deride Islamic fundamentalism with the same level of derision that we do, but it's often us asking them to resolve the problem.

I think we need to see beyond that and combat extremism as a unifying force, rather than seeing disparate cultural groups within society. Part of the reason this exists, for me at least, is due to multiculturalism - the reasons for which I outlined earlier.

Shurimgreat

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Nail on the head they not the religion, People in power like to keep power.

Nail on the head huh? Wrong. Thanks for putting words in my mouth and misrepresenting my posts.

Its not the people. Its some people combined with the religion itself.

We cannot keep pretending this religion is good or progressive or nice or enlightened. It's not, simple as that.

Its a 7th century religion that is very much of its time, when humankind was barbaric and uncivilised.

bjork

Looks like a synagogue is being shot up now in Copenhagen

More to come....

wretcheddomain

Shurimgreat wrote: »

We cannot keep pretending this religion is good or progressive or nice or enlightened. It's not, simple as that.

Its a 7th century religion that is very much of its time, when humankind was barbaric and uncivilised.

I'm with you there. Islam is as ridiculous as any other religion and can be used for good or for bad.

If Islam were an inherently wicked source, you would expect every Muslim to be evil and demented. This isn't the case.

Yes, many Muslims cherry pick the good and bad parts of their text, as Christians have done - and continue to do - for many centuries. But, this is not a reason to use hyperbole when describing the faith.

True, many of its extremist values are not compatible with Western freedoms.

Acknowledging all of this still doesn't provide an effective solution. A solution can only come from all sides - both Muslim and non-Muslim - working together to fight a common enemy. By pointing to existing Muslim societies as 'the Other', it only serves to exacerbate the situation in my view.

bjork

New Terror attack in #Denmark. Shots fired at the Great #synagogue in #Copenhagen. Sources report about "Casualties"
at least 1 person shot

http://www.rightnow.io/breaking-news/cphshooting_bn_1423930452637.html

1 person shot in head, 2 wounded police at synagogue

Shurimgreat

wretcheddomain wrote: »

I'm with you there. Islam is as ridiculous as any other religion and can be used for good or for bad.

If Islam were an inherently wicked source, you would expect every Muslim to be evil and demented. This isn't the case.

Yes, many Muslims cherry pick the good and bad parts of their text, as Christians have done - and continue to do - for many centuries. But, this is not a reason to use hyperbole when describing the faith.

True, many of its extremist values are not compatible with Western freedoms.

Acknowledging all of this still doesn't provide an effective solution. A solution can only come from all sides - both Muslim and non-Muslim - working together to fight a common enemy. By pointing to existing Muslim societies as 'the Other', it only serves to exacerbate the situation in my view.

I have no problem with the argument that Islam is not nice, enlightened, progressive or in any way shape or form beneficial to anyone. I've already made that argument. It has brought complete misery to virtually every country it has touched, large proportions of peoples, eg women, minorities, homosexuals, and so on and so forth. Millions have died fighting for or against their particular interpretation. Millions have been enslaved in one way or another.

Human beings in my view are inherently good. It just takes one dangerous ideology to make them evil.

The grouping "muslims" is as meaningless as the grouping "christians" or "jews".

Most christians, jews and a fair proporition of muslims actually want nothing to do with their own religion but keep getting labelled by people as this or that.

It's not the people its the ideology.

You can bomb people all you want in this war or not, but if you don't tackle the ideology you will always fail. We have been doing the opposite in the west in recent conflicts. Attacking the people and not touching the ideology. This is why we have failed.

bjork

Here's a newssource http://rt.com/news/232431-copenhagen-synagogue-gunfire-police/


Danish military deployed in City

RobYourBuilder

Christ

K4t

Shurimgreat wrote: »

You can bomb people all you want in this war or not, but if you don't tackle the ideology you will always fail. We have been doing the opposite in the west in recent conflicts. Attacking the people and not touching the ideology. This is why we have failed.

Agreed. The only Muslims that should be attacked because of these events like Charlie Hebdo are the ones pulling the triggers, and not because they are Muslims.

Those Muslims who support those attacks should be condemned but more importantly acknowledged and criticised, and questioned about those beliefs.

What should be attacked consistently is Islam and Islamic fundamentalism. And all religion; constantly, and without fear of accusations of intolerance and blasphemy and other such nonsense. Tolerance of intolerance is not tolerance. And the common theme of religion is intolerance. Christianity is as dangerous as Islam as an ideology and so we should never stop criticising it either, but Islam needs and deserves our focus in the 21st century. And Muslims (and most importantly their future generations) deserve our help as fellow human beings.

bjork

Police are searching through Ørstedsparken (a local park) with flashlights, looking for the suspect. /u/LuXiius
02:00

4 minutes agoPolice has made multiple arrests of people not following their instructions to leave the area; mostly consisting of drunk people. No arrest of any suspects to the shootings has been made yet. /u/LuXiius

8 minutes agoUnconfirmed: Police are checking if any taxi drivers are being held hostage, as they go by Teglgårdstræde and Nørre Voldgade.


Updates from reddit http://www.reddit.com/live/ueyl75slmfvg/

Shurimgreat

I wonder is it the same guy responsible for both attacks? My guess is probably. Terrorists like this generally like to go out in a blaze of glory and make their 15 minutes of fame last. They know the choice is an annonymous life in prison or "martyrdom". The only pity is he won't actually realise there aren't 72 virgins waiting for him and he was duped like all the rest.

old_aussie

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Can't we all just get along.

The rest of the world can get along, it appears islam will never be able to get along with the rest of the world.

Looks like islam cannot even get along with itself, one example shia - sunni, so that leaves little chance of islam getting along with the rest of the world.

magma69

Why is this kind of religiously motivated terrorism so prevalent amongst followers of Islam compared to other religions? There's far more Christians in Europe yet how often do we hear of religiously motivated Christians going shooting up innocent people lately? Anders Brevik is one that springs to mind but it's so much more common place with Islam it's far more worrying.

K4t

magma69 wrote: »

Why is this kind of religiously motivated terrorism so prevalent amongst followers of Islam compared to other religions? There's far more Christians in Europe yet how often do we hear of religiously motivated Christians going shooting up innocent people lately? Anders Brevik is one that springs to mind but it's so much more common place with Islam it's far more worrying.

Enlightenment, and the very thing both the murderers and a lot of Islamic fundamentalists are targeting, freedom of expression and speech. Those are the things that make it possible to bring down any dominant force or idea; they are the essence of a free society, and that is why it is so galling and depressing to see western media and people themselves self censor and attempt to restrict and limit those rights. Without them, we are NOWHERE.

Henry9

magma69 wrote: »

Why is this kind of religiously motivated terrorism so prevalent amongst followers of Islam compared to other religions? There's far more Christians in Europe yet how often do we hear of religiously motivated Christians going shooting up innocent people lately? Anders Brevik is one that springs to mind but it's so much more common place with Islam it's far more worrying.

Because of the constant pandering to 'offence' and 'sensitivity'. But validating such feelings of victimhood don't alleviate the issue, they just mean the 'victim' comes back with more greivances.

Allied to a tacit agreement with the attacker's motivations in the wider community.

DanishD

I can't believe what is happening, the theatre where the earlier shooting happened is where the Engish language theatre groups put on their plays. It's like a second home and know the place inside out and all the staff.

We were out earlier and beside the second shooting, the police were visibly shaken by the cordon. Helicopters flying everywhere, I hope they find him soon.

Shurimgreat

It's because Islam is incompatible with every hard fought progressive idea since about the 7th century onwards. Look at almost all the countries where it is deeply entrenched, few if any are democracies, human rights records are poor and criticism of Islam meets with a grim fate, the rights of women are next to none, and so on. People say radical Islam is on the rise. Radical Islam is already the dominant force in Saudi Arabia, Iran and many other countries to a greater or lesser extent.

All these terrorists attacks are an attempt to drag us back to the 7th century. For decades now we have been bombing Taliban, Isis, AQ and it hasn't worked. The ideology just keeps producing more and more. You need to target the ideology to have a hope. Its the fuel that keeps it all going, the ammunition to the weapons.

Oops69

Good to see the Danes have an eloquent prime minister to front the response , I shudder to think of the response given by our gombeen man of a prime minister , should , God forbid, a similar attack happen here.

K4t

Oops69 wrote: »

Good to see the Danes have an eloquent prime minister to front the response , I shudder to think of the response given by our gombeen man of a prime minister , should , God forbid, a similar attack happen here.

Who would they target? Our papers would not even republish Charlie Hebdo and we as a country are not exactly a million miles or many years away from religious fundamentalist beliefs. We have ironically made ourselves safe from attack due to our blasphemy law, which has been threatened to be used by Irish Islamic fundamentalists. Our own religious extremism has possibly prevented us from earning the wrath of an Islamic extremists attack using physical violence. The US is the obvious target.

darkpagandeath

K4t wrote: »

Who would they target? Our papers would not even republish Charlie Hebdo and we as a country are not exactly a million miles or many years away from religious fundamentalist beliefs. We have ironically made ourselves safe from attack due to our blasphemy law, which has been threatened to be used by Irish Islamic fundamentalists. Our own religious extremism has possibly prevented us from earning the wrath of an Islamic extremists attack using physical violence. The US is the obvious target.

Shannon.

Shurimgreat

Agreed, they wouldn't attack here. We're a backwater on the world stage. They always like to go for the spectacular. Targetting centres of power, or icons of free speech. We are nobodies to them, thank goodness. I think we could pretty much say what we like. In any case, there's a strong anti-western feeling in Ireland, so why would they jeopradize that?

Sadly I fear this kind of conflict is going to continue long into the future. No matter how many terrorists are killed, more and more take their place. I do think however the Syrian Civil war played a huge role in radicalising tens of thousands of people. The UNSC and west missed a big opportunity. Having a failed state in the middle of the middle east was always going to have predictable results. These groups deliberately seek out failed states. An orderly transition of power would have prevented all this. Sadly Assad chose otherwise.

Smiles35

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Shannon.

While the likes of Saudi hosted the actual US army? gtfo

darkpagandeath

Noblong wrote: »

While the likes of Saudi hosted the actual US army? gtfo

Are you disputing shannon could be a target. If an elderly lady protestor can get on there think of what a terrorist could do.

Smiles35

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Are you disputing shannon could be a target.

Ofcourse. 'Don't help the yanks' is a nothing messege to the likes of us.

Shurimgreat

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Are you disputing shannon could be a target. If an elderly lady protestor can get on there think of what a terrorist could do.

What exactly would they target in shannon? The duty free shop? A runway? Who?
What sort of political message would it be?

There's no-one in shannon today even remotely linked to the Iraq War.

And stop giving terrorists ideas for goodness sake.

Shannon is an international transit hub.

It was a major hub for the former Soviet Union, even after invading Afghanistan.

Shannons role in any war was negligible. Except for people like you who would like to point signs for terrorists to shannon.

And why on earth do you want to kow tow to terrorists?