Shooting in Demark

Dan_Solo

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Iran is a bizzare one alright, number of seats in parliament are reserved for Jews and Christians, while they make speeches about wiping out Israel.

If you know the difference between race, religion and politics it isn't that bizarre.

alwald

DeadHand wrote: »

You'd happily live as a Jew in Iran? In Iraq? Syria? Egypt?

I am still waiting for an evidence about Jews being persecuted in the Arab/Muslim world.

There are many Jews in both Egypt and Iran....Iraq and Syria are in a war/civil war and as such cannot be added, on top of that Syria's dictator Assad is the one who dislikes Israel/Jews not his people, again you are making comments without any knowledge....

Eugene Norman

The Backwards Man wrote: »

I just let an Iranian Jew I was sitting next to on a plane tell me his story, no spin involved here at all.:)

Anecdotes are not statistics. The situation for jews and Christians and other minorities is pretty bad in Islamic countries. Iran isn't the worst though.

Eugene Norman

alwald wrote: »

I am still waiting for an evidence about Jews being persecuted in the Arab/Muslim world.

There are many Jews in both Egypt and Iran....Iraq and Syria are in a war/civil war and as such cannot be added, on top of that Syria's dictator Assad is the one who dislikes Israel/Jews not his people, again you are making comments without any knowledge....

I can't post links but you can easily Google this yourself. It's remarksble that the whole thing is not better known in fact.

By and large the jewish populations have collapsed across the Middle East and North Africa.

alwald

Eugene Norman wrote: »

I can't post links but you can easily Google this yourself. It's remarksble that the whole thing is not better known in fact.

By and large the jewish populations have collapsed across the Middle East and North Africa.

Is the collapse of the Jews population linked to hatred crimes, persecution, the desire to live in Israel or other factors? That's the real question....the same applies to posters who mention that Jews' population in Iran has decreased, this is a fact but what are the reasons? Some of the reasons are mentioned in the video I posted.

Egginacup

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

Where we not on the stickler of that?

I don't see any revenge attacks against Ireland. But then again all it would take would be a staged episode to get non-free-thinkers like yourself frothing at the mouth and clamouring for us to join NATO and "solve" the problem by bombing more brown people.

Eugene Norman

alwald wrote: »

Is the collapse of the Jews population linked to hatred crimes, persecution, the desire to live in Israel or other factors? That's the real question....the same applies to posters who mention that Jews' population in Iran has decreased, this is a fact but what are the reasons? Some of the reasons are mentioned in the video I posted.

It's all of the above. You are, however, much too quick to shrug off the persecution angle.

Eugene Norman

Egginacup wrote: »

I don't see any revenge attacks against Ireland. But then again all it would take would be a staged episode to get non-free-thinkers like yourself frothing at the mouth and clamouring for us to join NATO and "solve" the problem by bombing more brown people.

That's quite a strawman.

DeadHand

The Backwards Man wrote: »

I just let an Iranian Jew I was sitting next to on a plane tell me his story, no spin involved here at all.:)

And some bloke in a pub told me that Brad Pitt isn't actually an actor but a truck driver and he was being harassed by UFOs in the hills around his home.

Fact is, the tokenism and facile gestures you mention are camouflage to hide from the rest world the widespread persecution of the Jews and other religious minorities in that theocracy.

How do you explain Iran's dramatically dwindling Jewish population?

Egginacup

Sociopath2 wrote: »

Straight in with defending Islam, no mention of condemning the attack or any concern or sympathy for the victims.

No surprise there.

You know all you do is make childish jibes and immature little throwaway comments like "no surprise there" or "resident terrorist supporters". That's the kind of piss-poor debating style reserved for Bush era knuckledraggers whose mantra was "you're either with us or you're with the terrists"

The attacks don't need to be condemned because that's irrelevant to the argument. I don't think there is a single person on here who is condoning them. What people are trying to do is understand WHY these attacks are happening but people like yourself don't want to engage in that discussion because it might involve some critical thinking on your part. It might compel you to revisit your own entrenched and short-sighted views.

Much easier to just be intransigent like some bigot and declare that nobody has legitimate grievances. They're just "bad-guys"

DeadHand

alwald wrote: »

I am still waiting for an evidence about Jews being persecuted in the Arab/Muslim world.

What exactly do you want?

Google "persecution of Jews" in almost any country in the Muslim world and you'll be confronted by walls of evidence.

And the Arab world and Muslim worlds are very different things. Iran isn't in the Arab world, for example.

alwald

Eugene Norman wrote: »

It's all of the above. You are, however, much too quick to shrug off the persecution angle.

Enlighten us with your analysis, add to it some reliable sources then we have a debate......but as of now you are adding nothing to this I am afraid.

alwald

DeadHand wrote: »

What exactly do you want?

Google "persecution of Jews" in almost any country in the Muslim world and you'll be confronted by walls of evidence.

And the Arab world and Muslim worlds are very different things. Iran isn't in the Arab world, for example.

Can you post any links?
I am well aware that Arab and Muslim are 2 different things hence the Muslim/Arab world.

Bob24

The Backwards Man wrote: »

I just let an Iranian Jew I was sitting next to on a plane tell me his story, no spin involved here at all.:)

I would still be cautious with this and try to find out a bit more bout his background.

I have met Tibetans in Ireland telling me that China is all great for Tibet, letting people keep their local culture while developing the region.

The men were academics and officials for a Tibetan cultural organisation fully funded by the Chinese central governement and all on the government's payroll - you could call that vested interest.

Now, while I have plenty of interest in this and relationships with the Chinese community here I have never met any Tibetans in Ireland who were just your regular person without some type of government connection. Is this a coincidence or could it it possibly be that only people carrying a certain message are allowed outside of Tibet?

The same question could well be relevant for Iranian Jews.

The Backwards Man

DeadHand wrote: »

And some bloke in a pub told me that Brad Pitt isn't actually an actor but a truck driver and he was being harassed by UFOs in the hills around his home.

Fact is, the tokenism and facile gestures you mention are camouflage to hide from the rest world the widespread persecution of the Jews and other religious minorities in that theocracy.

How do you explain Iran's dramatically dwindling Jewish population?

I can't explain it any more than you can. I don't know by how much it is declining any more than do you, all figures are estimates.

The fella on the plane claimed the actual population was higher than London, though I doubt it. Still, I'm not as blinded by sectarianism and bigotry as some not to take his story at face value.

Eugene Norman

Egginacup wrote: »

You know all you do is make childish jibes and immature little throwaway comments like "no surprise there" or "resident terrorist supporters". That's the kind of piss-poor debating style reserved for Bush era knuckledraggers whose mantra was "you're either with us or you're with the terrists"

The attacks don't need to be condemned because that's irrelevant to the argument. I don't think there is a single person on here who is condoning them. What people are trying to do is understand WHY these attacks are happening but people like yourself don't want to engage in that discussion because it might involve some critical thinking on your part. It might compel you to revisit your own entrenched and short-sighted views.

Much easier to just be intransigent like some bigot and declare that nobody has legitimate grievances. They're just "bad-guys"

Of course they are bad guys. I'm old enough to have heard this kind of equivocation for the IRA, in fact as an old school leftist I engaged in them myself. No more.

You keep engaging in your own bad arguments. People who don't want to understand killings of a comic are Bush supporters. Nope. I hate Bush.

However these guys are not attacking the neo-conservatives who started the war. They are not attacking in the country which started the war. They are not attacking the soldiers who fought the war, the journalists who egged on the war, the intellectuals who gave support to the war.

They are attacking in France, home of the despised ( by neo-cons) cheese eating surrender monkeys, and Denmark. They are attacking caricaturists of the prophet Mohammed because that's the nature of the religion, evidenced by Saudi Arabia's recent flogging sentence on the atheist journalist. They are attacking Jews for reasons of anti-semitism.

This is clear to all but the morally supine.

Eugene Norman

The Backwards Man wrote: »

I can't explain it any more than you can. I don't know by how much it is declining any more than do you, all figures are estimates.

The fella on the plane claimed the actual population was higher than London, though I doubt it. Still, I'm not as blinded by sectarianism and bigotry as some not to take his story at face value.

The stats are hardly in dispute. The population of jews has declined by 80%. You are also presuming the conclusion of "sectarianism and bigotry" in people who don't really take supposed meetings with fellas on buses all that seriously.

Look here's a made up story. I met a Palestinian Arab who told me that there was no discrimination of israeli Arabs or Palestinians in Israel. You can disagree with that but you're a bigot.

How do you like that "logic?"

The Backwards Man

Eugene Norman wrote: »

The stats are hardly in dispute. The population of jews has declined by 80%. You are also presuming the conclusion of "sectarianism and bigotry" in people who don't really take supposed meetings with fellas on buses all that seriously.

Look here's a made up story. I met a Palestinian Arab who told me that there was no discrimination of israeli Arabs or Palestinians in Israel. You can disagree with that but you're a bigot.

How do you like that "logic?"

Stick around a while, it will become evident to you what I am 'presuming' soon enough.

alwald

Eugene Norman wrote: »

That's so untrue its a joke.

A bizarre answer from somebody who likes "logic"

Egginacup

wretcheddomain wrote: »

Arguing against multiculturalism does not make one a proponent of monoculturalism.

I'm an advocate of interculturalism - the argument that says different cultures and ethnic groups are welcome in society, but only if they meld into the existing values that society has.

It's not a difficult position to adhere to.

So why aren't all the whites, hispanics, blacks and Asians in North America living in teepees then and paying homage to the eagle and buffalo gods

Eugene Norman

Egginacup wrote: »

So why aren't all the whites, hispanics, blacks and Asians in North America living in teepees then and paying homage to the eagle and buffalo gods

Because they are colonialists who imposed their culture on the original inhabitants?

Eugene Norman

alwald wrote: »

A bizarre answer from somebody who likes "logic"

Your original point doesn't stand

Quote: alwald
Jews lived for centuries in the Arab world (and still do) without any issues?

It's the "and still do" which is almost beyond satire.

Egginacup

jank wrote: »

It's a pity that Islam still think it's the middle ages.

Islam is a human being?

I've heard it all now.

BlaasForRafa

Egginacup wrote: »

So why aren't all the whites, hispanics, blacks and Asians in North America living in teepees then and paying homage to the eagle and buffalo gods

Speaking of buffalo gods, how about providing some evidence for that afghan pipeline story you were spinning on the other islam vs free speech thread?

Shurimgreat

Unfortunately where-ever Islam goes, disaster isn't long following it, as adherants, regardless of how few in number, try to impose their outlook violently on others.

There are many good Muslims, I have no doubt about that, but not for anything related to their religion. Islam on the otherhand has next to nothing to redeem itself.

And the only way to defeat this scourge is constant criticism of the religion, not its followers, many of who follow without questioning, their ancestors "converted" under the kind of force and duress we are seeing today displayed by ISIS.

nokia69

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Because they are colonialists who imposed their culture on the original inhabitants?

just like islam in Europe

SeanW

Saipanne wrote: »

Do gooders, please choose your response here:


Guys, cant you all see that this is our fault? []

It's their culture! []

Stop being racist against a belief! []


Tick the box, as appropriate.

You missed a few:

Israel is an apartheid state! Zionists are the new Nazis rabble rabble rabble. []

You should feel enriched by all this new culture []

Whatabout the Catholic Church? []

There's no such thing as inferior cultures, even when it can be proven that there are []

If you disagree with you're a fascist/racist/xenophobe/Islamophobe/(insert epithet here []

alwald

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Your original point doesn't stand

Quote: alwald
Jews lived for centuries in the Arab world (and still do) without any issues?

It's the "and still do" which is almost beyond satire.

I am worried about your knowledge about how many Jews live in the Arab/Muslim world and how safe they are there since for many its their home country(ies)....document yourself further.

Shurimgreat

Generally the Jews have survived under the protection of western leaning dictators or relatively moderate Muslim leaders. I think there still is Jewish communities in Iran, Iraq, Syria, Jordan, North Africa and less so elsewhere. Its when radicals take over, imposing the 7th century version of Islam that problems begin.

Stinicker

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8_GxRFXAaY

This video sums up perfectly what is going to happen infuture unless European Government tackles immigration and clamps down hard on Islamic Fundamentalists. I do not consider Islam to be a religion rather to be a cult of hatred supported by the Gulf terrorist states of Saudi Arabia and Qatar, a religion does not instruct to its believers to kill the infidel. Islam is not compatible with western freedoms and values and these values are more important than any religious freedom.

The next 50 years will resemble something out of the Dark ages unless moves are made very soon to tackle the scourge of Islamic Fundamentalism.

Saipanne

Gatling wrote: »

Wait till they ban Oktoberfest

They'll unfurl those Swastikas in a heartbeat.

engineerbrah

I like how everyone is allowed to hate on Muslims here and mods do nothing about it but criticise the Jews you'll get the anti-Semitic card shoved down your throat and a nice 1 month ban.
Any Muslim/Arab hatred of the Jews is a direct result of the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians in modern day Israel which only happened not so long ago. Tens of thousands of people killed and a whole nation displaced from their homeland and you think it's unjust of them to hate on Jews?

You people disgust me.

Nodin

DeadHand wrote: »

Think we're finally getting to the point where even the most stubborn apologist cannot argue that Islam isn't incompatible with Western values.

Ironic this crime occurred at a debate. Sadly, it seems that Islam's main tool for debate is a gun. It's main method of expansion is physical force.

Yeah, you're criticising the minority there allright.

alwald

engineerbrah wrote: »

I like how everyone is allowed to hate on Muslims here and mods do nothing about it but criticise the Jews you'll get the anti-Semitic card shoved down your throat and a nice 1 month ban.
Any Muslim/Arab hatred of the Jews is a direct result of the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians in modern day Israel which only happened not so long ago. Tens of thousands of people killed and a whole nation displaced from their homeland and you think it's unjust of them to hate on Jews?

You people disgust me.

I will replace the word Jews by Israel as people might dislike/disagree/ or even hate Israel for their crimes as a nation but let's not put all the Jews in the same basket, the same goes to Muslims/Arab.

Shurimgreat

engineerbrah wrote: »

I like how everyone is allowed to hate on Muslims here and mods do nothing about it but criticise the Jews you'll get the anti-Semitic card shoved down your throat and a nice 1 month ban.
Any Muslim/Arab hatred of the Jews is a direct result of the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians in modern day Israel which only happened not so long ago. Tens of thousands of people killed and a whole nation displaced from their homeland and you think it's unjust of them to hate on Jews?

You people disgust me.

I don't hate Muslims, I hate Islam. In a free country, people should be free to hate what they want. You can't force anyone to like anything.

stunmer

engineerbrah wrote: »

I like how everyone is allowed to hate on Muslims here and mods do nothing about it but criticise the Jews you'll get the anti-Semitic card shoved down your throat and a nice 1 month ban.

Who hates muslims?

Bob24

engineerbrah wrote: »

I like how everyone is allowed to hate on Muslims here and mods do nothing about it but criticise the Jews you'll get the anti-Semitic card shoved down your throat and a nice 1 month ban.
Any Muslim/Arab hatred of the Jews is a direct result of the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians in modern day Israel which only happened not so long ago. Tens of thousands of people killed and a whole nation displaced from their homeland and you think it's unjust of them to hate on Jews?

You people disgust me.

I don't see many people who hate Muslims here. I see people who are afraid the spread of Islam in Europe will reduce their freedom and negatively impact people's lifestyles.
Agree with them or not, but it is a different thing.

Pumpkinseeds

Shurimgreat wrote: »

I don't hate Muslims, I hate Islam. In a free country, people should be free to hate what they want. You can't force anyone to like anything.

People do have the right to hate whatever they want to. The problem is that people are using freedom of speech to spout hateful, bigoted, racist crap and it's being used by fanatics as an excuse to kill. I can't feel any sympathy for the Charlie Hebdo 'victims', they made a living peddaling hate and it bit them in the ass. I'm not in any way condoning violence or murder. But lets keep it in context. If someone went down to their local pub every weekend making racist, bigoted remarks and trying to offend people, well eventually someone would knock them on their arse.

Casual racism, anti-semitism and anti-Islam is being bandied about as if it's acceptable, a lot of that is down to Charlie Hebdo and their ilk. Just because people have the legal right to freedom of speech doesn't mean that the hateful sh*te that they spout should be acceptable to wider society. Social media is full of this nonsense and it's shocking at how fast it's become acceptable and how much of it is being shared.

engineerbrah

stunmer wrote: »

Who hates muslims?

Read through the thread and see the anti-Muslim comments. And if you really want to know who is bringing us the joys of multiculturalism to Europe watch this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jl-OJJVAEg

"there is no place in modern Europe for ethnically pure states. That's a 19th century idea, and we are trying to transition into the 21st century, and we are going to do it with multiethnic states."

General Wesley Clarke - US Army

Source: ww w.thesocialcontract.com/artman2/publish/tsc0904/article_805_printer.shtml

How about the people of Europe get to decide what's best for them?

Shurimgreat

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

People do have the right to hate whatever they want to. The problem is that people are using freedom of speech to spout hateful, bigoted, racist crap and it's being used by fanatics as an excuse to kill. I can't feel any sympathy for the Charlie Hebdo 'victims', they made a living peddaling hate and it bit them in the ass. I'm not in any way condoning violence or murder. But lets keep it in context. If someone went down to their local pub every weekend making racist, bigoted remarks and trying to offend people, well eventually someone would knock them on their arse.

Casual racism, anti-semitism and anti-Islam is being bandied about as if it's acceptable, a lot of that is down to Charlie Hebdo and their ilk. Just because people have the legal right to freedom of speech doesn't mean that the hateful sh*te that they spout should be acceptable to wider society. Social media is full of this nonsense and it's shocking at how fast it's become acceptable and how much of it is being shared.

The Charlie Hebdo cartoonists also hated Islam not Muslims. Do you understand the distinction.

Do you also understand that Islam is an ideology? Do you understand that it is a human right to criticise any ideology.

I'm guessing you are left wing. I'm guessing also you think its ok to criticise failed ideologies such as communism and nazism but not the equally failed ideology of Islam.

In other words I am proud to criticise what I like, and make no apologies to anyone about that.

Donkey Oaty

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

I can't feel any sympathy for the Charlie Hebdo 'victims', they made a living peddaling hate and it bit them in the ass.

That really is one of the most depressing viewpoints I've read on here for a while, particularly the use of inverted commas.

I think you are completely wrong about what Charlie Hebdo stood for, but I'll leave it there because this has already - rather like Chab and Co. - been done to death.

stunmer

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

I can't feel any sympathy for the Charlie Hebdo 'victims', they made a living peddaling hate and it bit them in the ass.

No sympathy for people being killed for drawing satire?

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

I
Casual racism, anti-semitism and anti-Islam is being bandied about as if it's acceptable, a lot of that is down to Charlie Hebdo and their ilk.

Anti Islam is perfectly acceptable. Just like anti any religion.

bjork

Why do the media always refer to the "prophet" Mohammad"but never to "The lord and saviour Jesus Christ" or any other "elevated status - religious figure"?

Subliminal conditioning?

Nodin

bjork wrote: »

Why do the media always refer to the "prophet" Mohammad"but never to "The lord and saviour Jesus Christ" or any other "elevated status - religious figure"?

Subliminal conditioning?

Yeah they were all put through basic training at a madrassa in Sudan.

Christ means "chosen one". Its not the last name of Jesus.

Bob24

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

I can't feel any sympathy for the Charlie Hebdo 'victims', they made a living peddaling hate and it bit them in the ass. I'm not in any way condoning violence or murder. But lets keep it in context. If someone went down to their local pub every weekend making racist, bigoted remarks and trying to offend people, well eventually someone would knock them on their arse.

Were quotation marks around the word victim really necessary? These people were killed for drawings.

With regards to your second point, the had issues with other religions as much as Islam and have expressed them throughout their careers. No one "eventually knocked them on their arse" (as you describe it) in the name of the Christianaty or Judaism.

stunmer

engineerbrah wrote: »

Read through the thread and see the anti-Muslim comments.

I have been following this thread and don't recollect any instances of people hating Muslims.

Maybe I have missed those posts. Can you please provide the examples?

bpmurray

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

Casual racism, anti-semitism and anti-Islam is being bandied about as if it's acceptable

• Racism is behavior based on someone's DNA.
• Anti-semitism is one specific flavour of racism, not to be confused with criticism of the Israeli state and the misbehaviours of the IDF.
• Please explain how Islam is a race. I have criticised Catholicism in the past and I will in the future; likewise for the fundamentalist US Christians. And I see no difference between these and Islam. They are all based on the idea that some sky-fairy is wonderful, and my version happens to be better than yours.

bjork

Nodin wrote: »

Yeah they were all put through basic training at a madrassa in Sudan.

Christ means "chosen one". Its not the last name of Jesus.

Thanks for the explanation Nodin.

Totally missed the point but good attempt at being witty and educational at the same time

Irish Praetorian

engineerbrah wrote: »

Read through the thread and see the anti-Muslim comments. And if you really want to know who is bringing us the joys of multiculturalism to Europe watch this video:

Watch out, the Jew's are gonna get ya! Wait, whats that under my bed? A JEW! AAAAAAAAARGH (cue music from the Alien series) !

Honestly, I never cease to be amused by the kind of anti-semitic nonsense that occasionally pops up round these parts be it 'The Holocaust never happened' or 'The Jews are running the world banks'. In a way its quite impressive that despite the arrival of new ethnic and religious groups to Europe, hard-line nativist sentiment is still able to pen all the troubles of the world on the Jews.

Heres a tune, just for you!

DavidRamsay99

The gloves have to come off. Islamic fundamentalists need to be smashed into the ground. There has to be no mercy.