Is it time to retire the national anthem?

AudreyHepburn

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I don't speak Irish, my parents don't speak Irish, my grandparents didn't speak Irish, my great grandparents didn't speak Irish. In my area Irish hasn't been spoken since at least the mid 19th century. I have no connection to it.

I like many other functioning adults could easily learn the anthem word for word if I decided to but I don't, it doesn't inspire me because I have no connection to Irish.

You're Irish, I assume, so yes you do.

If you can't be bothered to learn the Anthem fine, just be honest about your reasons instead of making things up.

Grayson

Most people don't actually know the words and I'd wager a lot don't even know the translation.


Although thank fcuk they don't play it at the end of the night in pubs anymore.

Grayson

And to add, i just listened to it there again. the tune isn't actually that bad although it sounds like the sound track to a 1950's western. It might be an idea to update the words. We've come a long way since then it'd be night to have something a little bit more relevant.

Sounds

I think you're right about the Irish language, I remember kids in my school/s colleges/s refusing to speak it, we found it boring.
By the time we were like 14, we already knew 99% of the choices we made in the future would have nothing to do with speaking Irish.
Personally I think it's nice to know your own native tongue but I can probably speak other languages better than my own language.
There's something so military about singing the national anthem... but in respect for my country, i don't think it should go away.
Maybe a newer version, remix! they should have contests for the best version every few years, not like the euro-vision tripe though.

Iwasfrozen

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

You're Irish, I assume, so yes you do.

If you can't be bothered to learn the Anthem fine, just be honest about your reasons instead of making things up.

I am Irish but nope no connection to it.

It's not an issue of being bothered I want an anthem sung in the language I feel a connection to, English.

Sounds

Well you won't find many places here singing England songs.. not when I am anyway, wouldn't last long.

purplecow1977

Sounds wrote: »

I think you're right about the Irish language, I remember kids in my school/s colleges/s refusing to speak it, we found it boring.
By the time we were like 14, we already knew 99% of the choices we made in the future would have nothing to do with speaking Irish.
Personally I think it's nice to know your own native tongue but I can probably speak other languages better than my own language.
There's something so military about singing the national anthem... but in respect for my country, i don't think it should go away.
Maybe a newer version, remix! they should have contests for the best version every few years, not like the euro-vision tripe though.

I think that would take away from the pride in singing it. Do other national anthems change every few years? Actually I'm not interested in whether they do or don't, I don't think the Irish one should.

I hate this dislike for the Irish language. French isn't much use unless you're going to work and live in France or French-speaking countries etc, which majority of us won't.

I think the negative attitude stems mainly from parents.

purplecow1977

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I am Irish but nope no connection to it.

It's not an issue of being bothered I want an anthem sung in the language I feel a connection to, English.

If people in Ireland don't speak the language, even at the extremely basic and pathetic language that most do or could if they tried, then it will die out.

Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam.

Sounds

Think you're right Purple, and that generation is slowly leaving us sadly.
I don't want it to die out, but i couldn't find enough interest in it as a kid to learn it fully.
My granddad was the only person who use to speak Irish to me, but that was like a little lesson every now and then god bless him.
I think he was tryin to keep it alive through me, I didn't realize, but I haven't learnt Irish since secondary school, nobody spoke it.

Iwasfrozen

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Irish people don't have any connection to the Irish language, no connection to our native tongue.....really?

Most Irish people don't, no. They may pay lip service but if they felt a connection to the language they'd learn it. Or at least learn the words to the anthem.

purplecow1977

Sounds wrote: »

Think you're right Purple, and that generation is slowly leaving us sadly.
I don't want it to die out, but i couldn't find enough interest in it as a kid to learn it fully.
My granddad was the only person who use to speak Irish to me, but that was like a little lesson every now and then god bless him.
But i haven't learnt Irish since secondary school, nobody spoke it.

I understand that.
But it disappoints me that children in secondary school can have the same standard in French, German, Spanish etc as they do in Irish, despite learning Irish for an extra 8 years! Majority of those will have not spoken those languages since secondary school either.

I'm a primary teacher so I suppose I view the importance of Gaeilge a little bit differently to the run-of-the-mill Irish person. It is hard to see a 'value' when it is not spoken regularly, if ever! I find I am battling a negative attitude towards Irish already in my classroom, and perhaps it does need a complete overhaul, not just in schools, but at a national level.

Iwasfrozen

purplecow1977 wrote: »

If people in Ireland don't speak the language, even at the extremely basic and pathetic language that most do or could if they tried, then it will die out.

Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam.

It won't die out, the hardcore will always speak it.

I don't like that phrase, it implies countries like Brazil, the US, Venezuela, Argentina, Peru, etc. have no soul..

Sounds wrote: »

Well you won't find many places here singing England songs.. not when I am anyway, wouldn't last long.

lol internet tough guy.

whisky_galore

In an ideal world, we should choose whether we want to learn the language or not. People naturally resent being forced to do things that they see no value in.

stevestevenson

I'm by no means a fáinne-wearing Gaelgóir, but the anthem should remain in Irish - and should never be changed. If kids leave school knowing ANY Irish at all then it should be this anthem. It's our anthem, it's historic, and like most anthems most likely makes references to a war/battle of some kind - as this is how nations typically used to be formed, and that's just fine. As it stands we generally only sing (or listen to) it at sporting events, so what's the big deal?

Re. Ireland's Call, it's an abomination, a national embarrassment, and should be scrapped. The sensitivities of our Northern cousins aside, we should be singing the Irish anthem when the Irish team is playing, and nothing else. What we have is an Irish solution to an Irish problem and it's all a bit of a joke.

Friday. Rant. Over.

Sounds

The way I look at education for younger people is it's forced learning, many kids have trouble keeping up with subjects, I did.
It's difficult to learn so much especially if it's shoved down your throat in a way you can't digest it, that's how our education was.
My dad got me in to technical college when i was 16 and I still feel that place gave me a choice what i wanted to learn and do later.
So maybe it's best to leave your kids decide what they want to learn when they're old enough to actually care about something.

Sounds

You know while we're on the subject of hardcore,
I wish Ireland as one nation would grow a set of balls and take back what belongs to them, like most other countries did.
But that's another story, and it's probably never gonna happen in my life time considering the things we get rode for in this country.

AudreyHepburn

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Most Irish people don't, no. They may pay lip service but if they felt a connection to the language they'd learn it. Or at least learn the words to the anthem.

Speak for yourself.

hardCopy

stevestevenson wrote: »

I'm by no means a fáinne-wearing Gaelgóir, but the anthem should remain in Irish - and should never be changed. If kids leave school knowing ANY Irish at all then it should be this anthem. It's our anthem, it's historic, and like most anthems most likely makes references to a war/battle of some kind - as this is how nations typically used to be formed, and that's just fine. As it stands we generally only sing (or listen to) it at sporting events, so what's the big deal?

Re. Ireland's Call, it's an abomination, a national embarrassment, and should be scrapped. The sensitivities of our Northern cousins aside, we should be singing the Irish anthem when the Irish team is playing, and nothing else. What we have is an Irish solution to an Irish problem and it's all a bit of a joke.

Friday. Rant. Over.

Amhrainn Na bhFiann is the anthem of the Irish Republic. This country does not have it's own rugby team. Why should a rugby team that does not represent the Republic play the anthem of the Republic?

Sounds

..

stevestevenson

hardCopy wrote: »

Amhrainn Na bhFiann is the anthem of the Irish Republic. This country does not have it's own rugby team. Why should a rugby team that does not represent the Republic play the anthem of the Republic?

The Irish Rugby team HQ is in Dublin, they play in Dublin, and they are funded by the IRFU and the Irish (Republic) Government, and they sing Amhrán na BhFiann at games. This is an IRISH team, and you're kidding yourself if you think any different.
By your rationale the 6-county Ulster teams should have their own anthem at GAA games?

Scotland & Wales are British, but the players happily (and proudly) sing the respective Scottish & Welsh anthems. If any players are offended by singing Amhrán na BhFiann at games then they should maybe reconsider who they play for. Even the Kiwis playing for Italy sing the Italian anthem as a mark of respect for their chosen team.

Iwasfrozen

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Speak for yourself.

What I'm saying applies to most people. Not all but most.

Iwasfrozen

stevestevenson wrote: »

The Irish Rugby team HQ is in Dublin, they play in Dublin, and they are funded by the IRFU and the Irish (Republic) Government, and they sing Amhrán na BhFiann at games. This is an IRISH team, and you're kidding yourself if you think any different.
By your rationale the 6-county Ulster teams should have their own anthem at GAA games?

Scotland & Wales are British, but the players happily (and proudly) sing the respective Scottish & Welsh anthems. If any players are offended by singing Amhrán na BhFiann at games then they should maybe reconsider who they play for. Even the Kiwis playing for Italy sing the Italian anthem as a mark of respect for their chosen team.

It's not the Republic of Ireland team.

purplecow1977

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

It won't die out, the hardcore will always speak it.

I don't like that phrase, it implies countries like Brazil, the US, Venezuela, Argentina, Peru, etc. have no soul..

Hardcore? I'd imagine the Gaeltacht areas are drastically decreasing in numbers. Maybe I'm wrong.

That's not what it implies at all. (But wahey, you understood it! Or did you Google....?!)
Their language came from somewhere though, and dialects exist, just like in an language.
Language is a historical thing.

Grayson

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

It won't die out, the hardcore will always speak it.

It does take a critical mass to maintain the language. If the speakers are too spread out they won't use it and future generations will be less likely to. There's been movement away from the west to cities for a while. Out society is becoming even more centralised and that will mean the displacement of even more Irish speakers to places where they won't use the language.
I think there's a good chance that in 100 years it's be almost a dead language and 100 years later it'll be actually dead outside of academic circles.

Iwasfrozen

purplecow1977 wrote: »

Hardcore? I'd imagine the Gaeltacht areas are drastically decreasing in numbers. Maybe I'm wrong.

That's not what it implies at all. (But wahey, you understood it! Or did you Google....?!)
Their language came from somewhere though, and dialects exist, just like in an language.
Language is a historical thing.

I don't speak a word of Irish I just remember what the quote meant, Patrick Pearse immortalized the words but I don't think he was the first to speak them.

When I said hardcore speakers I didn't mean the Gaeltacht areas (those have shrunken massively over the last few decades) I meant the hardcore gaelgeoirs will keep the language alive even after the Gaeltachts inevitably die.

Iwasfrozen

Grayson wrote: »

It does take a critical mass to maintain the language. If the speakers are too spread out they won't use it and future generations will be less likely to. There's been movement away from the west to cities for a while. Out society is becoming even more centralised and that will mean the displacement of even more Irish speakers to places where they won't use the language.
I think there's a good chance that in 100 years it's be almost a dead language and 100 years later it'll be actually dead outside of academic circles.

Probably, which raises the question do we want our anthem written in an almost dead language? Or our constitution? Our laws? Something has to eventually give.

Sounds

In some countries young people usually speak two languages fluently, their own and English, some more.
But i think that's because they grew up around people speaking two languages and some schooling.
I don't know how you could make Irish more appealing, it's a shame, the one thing I'll always remember is
asking to go to the toilet coz i did that a lot to get out of classes.. we had to ask in Gaelic!

As a mark of respect we should keep it in Irish. .the national anthem... it's always been sung in Irish by our ancestors.

Grayson

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Probably, which raises the question do we want our anthem written in an almost dead language? Or our constitution? Our laws? Something has to eventually give.

The abortion issue with the brain dead woman raise a weird constitutional point. The 8th Amendment was written in both english and irish. Apparently the irish phrasing was stronger than the english so there was some doubt as to which was more relevant.

Iwasfrozen

Sounds wrote: »

In some countries young people usually speak two languages fluently, their own and English, some more.
But i think that's because they grew up around people speaking two languages and some schooling.
I don't know how you could make Irish more appealing, it's a shame, the one thing I'll always remember is
asking to go to the toilet coz i did that a lot to get out of classes.. we had to ask in Gaelic!

As a mark of respect we should keep it in Irish. .the national anthem... it's always been sung in Irish by our ancestors.

The song is only about a hundred years old and originally sung in English. It's hardly an ancient tradition.

Grayson

Sounds wrote: »

As a mark of respect we should keep it in Irish. .the national anthem... it's always been sung in Irish by our ancestors.

I wouldn't really call them ancestors. There's still some of them alive from that time.

And by the way it was written in English. It was only translated to Irish after the free state was formed. When the Irish Volunteers sang it, they sang it in English

Sounds

Well they're singing it in Irish these days!

hardCopy

stevestevenson wrote: »

The Irish Rugby team HQ is in Dublin, they play in Dublin, and they are funded by the IRFU and the Irish (Republic) Government, and they sing Amhrán na BhFiann at games. This is an IRISH team, and you're kidding yourself if you think any different.
By your rationale the 6-county Ulster teams should have their own anthem at GAA games?

Scotland & Wales are British, but the players happily (and proudly) sing the respective Scottish & Welsh anthems. If any players are offended by singing Amhrán na BhFiann at games then they should maybe reconsider who they play for. Even the Kiwis playing for Italy sing the Italian anthem as a mark of respect for their chosen team.

Ulster based club and facilities are also funded by the British Government. Most Ulster Based players learned their trade in Northern schools.

The location of IRFU HQ is irrelevant, it's not a Dublin Rugby Team, nor is it a Republic of Ireland Rugby Team. It should be possible for a player to proudly represent his land and the rugby tradition he comes from without having to line out to another Nation's anthem. Comparing the desire of an Ulster player to represent Ireland to the economic choice of a Kiwi journeyman playing for Italy shows a gross lack of knowledge and understanding of the culture of Irish rugby.

The team predates partition and draws players and support from all 32 counties, it has managed not to tear itself apart over the last 100 years by distancing itself from politics and jingoism. Anyone with any realistic desire to see a United Ireland should look to the IRFU's model for inspiration, if it ever happens I'll bet top dollar we get a new anthem.

I don't understand why any county team should play a national anthem, county players don't represent any country.

Un Croissant

I can't see the problem with Ireland's Call. Morto for me.

Sounds

Do people really have issues with other teams from different countries singing their own national anthem in their country?
They shouldn't.

Nodin

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I am Irish but nope no connection to it.

It's not an issue of being bothered I want an anthem sung in the language I feel a connection to, English.

....you'll probably want the country it's dedicated to changed as well then so.

Iwasfrozen

Nodin wrote: »

....you'll probably want the country it's dedicated to changed as well then so.

No, I want the anthem changed to represent the country as it is.

with regards the original post its not all that supprising a sense of nationality becomes more present when you go abroad. at the lions games in oz irish/welsh/english fans in particular made more noise as individual groups than the aussie fans did.

Dyr

hardCopy wrote: »

Ulster based club and facilities are also funded by the British Government. Most Ulster Based players learned their trade in Northern schools.

The location of IRFU HQ is irrelevant, it's not a Dublin Rugby Team, nor is it a Republic of Ireland Rugby Team. It should be possible for a player to proudly represent his land and the rugby tradition he comes from without having to line out to another Nation's anthem. Comparing the desire of an Ulster player to represent Ireland to the economic choice of a Kiwi journeyman playing for Italy shows a gross lack of knowledge and understanding of the culture of Irish rugby.

The team predates partition and draws players and support from all 32 counties, it has managed not to tear itself apart over the last 100 years by distancing itself from politics and jingoism. Anyone with any realistic desire to see a United Ireland should look to the IRFU's model for inspiration, if it ever happens I'll bet top dollar we get a new anthem.

I don't understand why any county team should play a national anthem, county players don't represent any country.

Were'nt the IRFU organizing rugby games with the british army back in the the tan war? Distancing itself from politics moryah

Anyway they should deffo refrain from naming the team after one side of the border. Just to not be kidding anyone.

Maybe call the team Ireland's Call too. The you can call the neophyte rugger groupies that infest dublin Ireland's callgirls


When you think of it, there's only two nations in the six nations. Rugby is crap in that regards.

DEFTLEFTHAND

I've always liked it and would be upset to see it replaced.

That Phil Coulter song is terrible, I'll never forget the sniggering and guffawing from opposition supporters during the 07 world cup in France everytime that was played. The IRFU had given the instrumental a sort of europop remix for the event.

Sounds

Terrible I'd say! I was joking about the remix earlier.

Aongus Von Bismarck

Bambi wrote: »

Were'nt the IRFU organizing rugby games with the british army back in the the tan war? Distancing itself from politics moryah

Anyway they should deffo refrain from naming the team after one side of the border. Just to not be kidding anyone.

Maybe call the team Ireland's Call too. The you can call the neophyte rugger groupies that infest dublin Ireland's callgirls


When you think of it, there's only two nations in the six nations. Rugby is crap in that regards.

So much anger in this post.

Dyr

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

So much anger in this post.

The truth is never angry my persona adopting friend

Karl Stein

Bambi wrote: »

When you think of it, there's only two nations in the six nations.

Ireland, Wales, France and England have all won the 6 nations twice or more since 2000 so I don't know how the hell you're arriving at the 'only two nations' conclusion. Also, the 6N is a yearly tournament and is relatively local in global terms so it's not comparable with the European Cup if that's what you're using as a benchmark.

Nodin

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I've always liked it and would be upset to see it replaced.

That Phil Coulter song is terrible, I'll never forget the sniggering and guffawing from opposition supporters during the 07 world cup in France everytime that was played. The IRFU had given the instrumental a sort of europop remix for the event.

And its crap because its a crap song, not because its sung instead of the anthem. Dire shite altogether.

Dyr

Karl Stein wrote: »

Ireland, Wales, France and England have all won the 6 nations twice or more since 2000 so I don't know how the hell you're arriving at the 'only two nations' conclusion. Also, the 6N is a yearly tournament and is relatively local in global terms so it's not comparable with the European Cup if that's what you're using as a benchmark.

"Wales"?? Wales ain't no nation that I ever heard of! Do they speak english in "wales"??

Karl Stein

Bambi wrote: »

"Wales"?? Wales ain't no nation that I ever heard of! Do they speak english in "wales"??

I think you're confusing nations with countries. Nations are more to do with people whereas countries are geo-political regions.

It's not called the '6 Sovereign Independent Countries'

who the fug

Sounds wrote: »

You know while we're on the subject of hardcore,
I wish Ireland as one nation would grow a set of balls and take back what belongs to them, like most other countries did.
But that's another story, and it's probably never gonna happen in my life time considering the things we get rode for in this country.

Lancashire and southern sweaty land

who the fug

Bambi wrote: »

"Wales"?? Wales ain't no nation that I ever heard of! Do they speak english in "wales"??

Do they dream of electric sheep , is more apt

diomed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GD3VsesSBsw

We could borrow this.

mg1982

A lot of people seem to miss the point that the ireland rugby team represent the whole island unlike the ireland soccer team. So choosing an alternative anthem for the rugby is no big deal. People seem to get caught up in this nationalist ferver when it comes to things like this.