M50 to be made even more unbearable

Idbatterim

there is a badly needed road project in cork or kerry highlighted on the rte news the other day, I think a few people had died on the road and it was woefully inadequate, the entire community were behind it and an Taisce as usual appeal it, its beyond a joke...

cgcsb

Solution:

A new bus, cyclist and pedestrian road and bridge connecting the Liffey Valley Junction to Coolmine station. Put in 2 or 3 frequent bus routes connecting the Tallaght and Blanch area trip generators, then increase the toll on the M50 so as to make the journey by car uneconomic.

testarossa40

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Implement the LAW and turf provisional drivers off the M50 - observe traffic volumes reduce accordingly and driving standards improve, err, slightly...

Idbatterim

option 2, complete the M50 circle and build the eastern bypass...

SeanW

cgcsb wrote: »

Solution:

A new bus, cyclist and pedestrian road and bridge connecting the Liffey Valley Junction to Coolmine station. Put in 2 or 3 frequent bus routes connecting the Tallaght and Blanch area trip generators, then increase the toll on the M50 so as to make the journey by car uneconomic.

How would that help the people who are using the M50 properly, i.e. as a bypass, as part of a long distance drive?

cgcsb

SeanW wrote: »

How would that help the people who are using the M50 properly, i.e. as a bypass, as part of a long distance drive?

It would help them by taking people using it for short tallght-blanch journeys off the road, thereby reducing congestion.

leanonme

cgcsb wrote: »

It would help them by taking people using it for short tallght-blanch journeys off the road, thereby reducing congestion.

But how would you measure if someone comes on at tallagh and back off a blanch?

Like I come on at liffyvally, and back off at ballymun, is that a short journey?

I do this maybe three times a week for work, but that does not include the journy up from offaly, all at off peak hours, so how would you charge me, considering every trip I do for work costs me 10 euro on toils, and public transport is not an option.

Heroditas

cgcsb wrote: »

Solution:

A new bus, cyclist and pedestrian road and bridge connecting the Liffey Valley Junction to Coolmine station. Put in 2 or 3 frequent bus routes connecting the Tallaght and Blanch area trip generators, then increase the toll on the M50 so as to make the journey by car uneconomic.

I'd be in favour of your proposed solution if only because it might help relieve the utterly chronic traffic in Lucan village every weekday caused by people using the village as a ratrun to avoid the M50 toll.

beauf

Tenzor07 wrote: »

I find that the existing speed limit on the M50 is almost entirely notional, and not enforced by the Gardai in any way..

So as it is with atrocious lane discipline, insufficient space between vehicles, the M50 needs a lot to happen in order to reduce congestion through incidents etc...the M50 is pretty unbearable already.

I'd agree with that. Just lately I've been using it a fair bit, but slightly off peak and there pretty much no enforced speed limit. Off peak anyway the speeds are very high. The standard of driving though is brutal. Almost every evening there's an accident that causes a tail back. I'll be glad to stop using it on a regular basis.

There really isn't any road engineering solution to it though. The problem is too many people driving into Dublin and around it. The city simply can't take the number of cars. So you either have to get people to use other forms of transport, or make Dublin less attractive, and other locations more attractive.

Irish Steve

Variable speed limits work, and if properly controlled, they make things flow with less trouble, as long as they are turned off when the congestion eases, but that degree of change would not be so urgently needed if some more pro active enforcement of the existing speed limits and other regulations were in place.

Incorrect lane usage, all the other issues, like late lane changes, tailgating, speeding, if they were dealt with, and the many provisional licence holders made to use alternative routes, and the phone users fined for using hand held phones, the list goes on and on, maybe if some of these were adequately dealt with, the M50 might work a bit better, flow more freely and have fewer accidents.

I've suggested before that the American system of having in line barriers between lanes in the area of intersections would go a long way to changing driver behaviour, by preventing multiple lane changes close to junctions.

The other issue is that there are too many areas that don't have a public transport system that goes where people want to get to. Pretty much every route goes to the centre of Dublin. Wonderful if that's where you really want to be, but if you live in (say) Swords, or Ashbourne, and want to go to (say) Citywest or Ballyfermot, or Tallaght, then your only real option other than well over 2 hours each way on multiple buses is to use your own vehicle and the M50, as the Liffey is still a fundamental barrier to North / South or North / West travel, the only viable routes to cross the Liffey are either the M50 or East of the Phoenix Park, every other route over the Liffey west of the city centre is either narrow at the bridge, or the access roads to the area are narrow, and slow and totally unsuitable for public transport use.

There's NO way over the Liffey between Chapelizod and Lucan other than the M50, and that should have been addressed years ago, in that the bridge at Chapelizod is not a viable route for much traffic other than as an alternative to the Chapelizod Bypass, the roads to Blanchardstown from Chapelizod are not fit for anything, they are so narrow and twisting, and the routes up into Ballyfermot from Chapelizod are not much better, and the access routes to cross the Liffey in Lucan or Leixlip are also pretty dire, especially the ones that are connected to the Strawberry beds road, all of them are only suitable for cars, so again, not a chance for public transport.

If the M1 had been run on to the eastern bypass and down to meet the M11, that would have reduced the traffic on the M50 significantly, but it was never going to happen, there's not a politician with the courage to suggest it, let alone see it built.

Now, with the economy at last starting to show some signs of a patchy recovery, there's panic, because the powers at the top learnt nothing from the property crash, prices (purchase or rental) in Dublin are still unattainable for huge numbers of people, so the only alternative is the commute in and out on a system that has not recognised the way that Dublin has changed since the days of the horse and cart and the canals.

The M50 was designed over 30 years ago, and when eventually constructed originally, was botched, and no amount of retrofitting could sort out the mess of the absence of properly designed free flow intersections, and even now, some of the supposed free flow is far from being free flowing, as the speeds to negotiate some of the junctions are so low as to be almost dangerous, with the worst being on the Liffey Valley and Red cow junctions, where it's impossible to get up to M50 join speed having negotiated a sharp steep descending 270 degree turn at less than 50 Kph, the distance available to accelerate to road speed of 100 Kph is just too short, unless you're driving something with a lot more acceleration than 90% of the vehicles on Irish Roads.

The long term solution is an outer M50, that will provide an alternative ring route to the traffic that doesn't actually want to be involved with Dublin, but has no choice with the way that the road system is structured at present. The political will to do it will be hard to generate, and An Taisce will then create yet another firestorm of protest, which will delay things even further. The fact that it's critical infrastructure that's needed for the long term good of the Irish Economy will not get a look in, and so it will continue.

A new deep water port North of Dublin, somewhere around Balbriggan, with a motorway that connects from that port north of Ashbourne, and west of Maynooth to the M7 somewhere around the M7/M9 area beyond Naas would go a long way to solving many of the problems of the M50, but it won't happen in my lifetime.

beauf

cgcsb wrote: »

Solution:

A new bus, cyclist and pedestrian road and bridge connecting the Liffey Valley Junction to Coolmine station. Put in 2 or 3 frequent bus routes connecting the Tallaght and Blanch area trip generators, then increase the toll on the M50 so as to make the journey by car uneconomic.

They've already opened up access from lucan to coolmine and clonsilla with the changes to poterterstown rd etc. There is no capacity on the line for more passengers or parking. All its done has encourage more rat running, which has now expanded into the areas all around coolmine/clonsilla stations, portertown. Instead of pushing people onto public transport, it increased car traffic and congestion in the area.

Get everyone else out of the car, except yourself, isn't going to work. As everyone (using a car) thinks the same.

Dravokivich

cgcsb wrote: »

It would help them by taking people using it for short tallght-blanch journeys off the road, thereby reducing congestion.

Are you familiar with the areas around Carpenterstown you are suggesting this congestion should be diverted to?

There's already issues with congestion in Carpenterstown by locals during peak time alone as a result of Traffic lights by the Porterstown end and the railway crossing by Coolmine itself.

And there'd be feck all capacity on the route you are suggesting too. It's all narrow single lanes, with very little room to expand. A lot of the slopes along there would be very similar to Knockmaroon as well.

beauf

Dravokivich wrote: »

...There's already issues with congestion in Carpenterstown by locals ....

I actually think a lot of it is through traffic, from the wider Dublin West area and Meath.

cdebru

Makes perfect sense, if you had a large bucket of water and you were trying to fill a bottle you wouldn't turn the bucket upside down, you would control the flow and fill the bottle as slowly as the bottle could take it. Same principle really.

Dravokivich

beauf wrote: »

I actually think a lot of it is through traffic, from the wider Dublin West area and Meath.

I used to live along the Diswellstown Rd and a lot of it appeared to be school runs. There are however a large number of people around that park up along Riverwood, to get out of paying for the carpark at Coolmine. So there's some element of that. But really the setup in Carpenterstown is not sufficient for locals during peak time, let alone adding in anyone else that passes through.

redappple

As many here, I drive M50S in morning and M50N in evenings as my daily commute. I travel between Blanch Exit and Cherrywood Exit.

Number of thoughts:
- The M50 is DANGEROUS. Every day I pass at least one minor collision, with serious multi car pile-ups at least a weekly occurrence
- There are clear traffic pressure point: J7-J11 (southbound and northbound), and often again at J13 (southbound).
- Much as I HATE people incompetently hogging the overtaking lane - there are too many cars for three lanes at rush hours, so overtaking and the usual rules go out the window (excuse the pun!)
- I truly believe that the fact that the largest University in Ireland is located not far from Junction 13 has a huge impact on the M50. UCD has 25,000 students, and probably 10,000+staff and researchers. I personally noticed a huge increase in traffic when the University returns, especially in the mornings as the parking in UCD is well known to be inadequate, with spaces filling at 8.30. This has an adverse effect on the M50 in mornings.

I personally noticed it got exceptionally bad towards the later months of 2014, and have found it a little better in 2015 so far.

beauf

Dravokivich wrote: »

I used to live along the Diswellstown Rd and a lot of it appeared to be school runs. There are however a large number of people around that park up along Riverwood, to get out of paying for the carpark at Coolmine. So there's some element of that. But really the setup in Carpenterstown is not sufficient for locals during peak time, let alone adding in anyone else that passes through.

I kinda meant there's a massive queues trying to get into those areas and out of them. Numbers far in excess of the local population. There was a massive increase in this after they opened the troy bridge and Porterstown road. This is mirrored in the queues out of Castleknock, into the park, Chapelizod and the N3/M50 junction. Not to mention as you say all the problems with people parking in estates all day.

Theres a park an ride in Dunboyne, and on the Navan Road Parkway. Theres also a station in Lexslip and Maynooth. So it makes no sense have another new bridge route on the same busy axis just adding to all the congestion. There also the capacity on the train line to consider. At Peak from Coolmine is standing room only, and often theres barely standing room. This is a well known problem, its been like that for decades.

beauf

There too many people going the same direction at the same time, on the same forms of transport. Those are the variables that have to change.

cgcsb

leanonme wrote: »

But how would you measure if someone comes on at tallagh and back off a blanch?

Traffic counting which the NRA carries out, Blanch-Tallaght is generally the busiest section, which is why I mentioned it.

leanonme wrote: »

Like I come on at liffyvally, and back off at ballymun, is that a short journey?

Yes that is a short journey that should be achievable by an orbital bus route.

leanonme wrote: »

I do this maybe three times a week for work, but that does not include the journy up from offaly, all at off peak hours, so how would you charge me, considering every trip I do for work costs me 10 euro on toils, and public transport is not an option.

I don't know, the charging would be the subject of a complex public consultation, I don't have the resources to answer you, it is merely a proposal. There isn't really any engineering alternative

tnegun

Ramp metering is desperately needed too plus it would cut down on the people skipping traffic by exiting and reentering the motorway also far more merge restrictions to stop weaving approaching the junctions.

cdebru

Irish Steve wrote: »

Variable speed limits work, and if properly controlled, they make things flow with less trouble, as long as they are turned off when the congestion eases, but that degree of change would not be so urgently needed if some more pro active enforcement of the existing speed limits and other regulations were in place.

Incorrect lane usage, all the other issues, like late lane changes, tailgating, speeding, if they were dealt with, and the many provisional licence holders made to use alternative routes, and the phone users fined for using hand held phones, the list goes on and on, maybe if some of these were adequately dealt with, the M50 might work a bit better, flow more freely and have fewer accidents.

I've suggested before that the American system of having in line barriers between lanes in the area of intersections would go a long way to changing driver behaviour, by preventing multiple lane changes close to junctions.

The other issue is that there are too many areas that don't have a public transport system that goes where people want to get to. Pretty much every route goes to the centre of Dublin. Wonderful if that's where you really want to be, but if you live in (say) Swords, or Ashbourne, and want to go to (say) Citywest or Ballyfermot, or Tallaght, then your only real option other than well over 2 hours each way on multiple buses is to use your own vehicle and the M50, as the Liffey is still a fundamental barrier to North / South or North / West travel, the only viable routes to cross the Liffey are either the M50 or East of the Phoenix Park, every other route over the Liffey west of the city centre is either narrow at the bridge, or the access roads to the area are narrow, and slow and totally unsuitable for public transport use.

There's NO way over the Liffey between Chapelizod and Lucan other than the M50, and that should have been addressed years ago, in that the bridge at Chapelizod is not a viable route for much traffic other than as an alternative to the Chapelizod Bypass, the roads to Blanchardstown from Chapelizod are not fit for anything, they are so narrow and twisting, and the routes up into Ballyfermot from Chapelizod are not much better, and the access routes to cross the Liffey in Lucan or Leixlip are also pretty dire, especially the ones that are connected to the Strawberry beds road, all of them are only suitable for cars, so again, not a chance for public transport.

If the M1 had been run on to the eastern bypass and down to meet the M11, that would have reduced the traffic on the M50 significantly, but it was never going to happen, there's not a politician with the courage to suggest it, let alone see it built.

Now, with the economy at last starting to show some signs of a patchy recovery, there's panic, because the powers at the top learnt nothing from the property crash, prices (purchase or rental) in Dublin are still unattainable for huge numbers of people, so the only alternative is the commute in and out on a system that has not recognised the way that Dublin has changed since the days of the horse and cart and the canals.

The M50 was designed over 30 years ago, and when eventually constructed originally, was botched, and no amount of retrofitting could sort out the mess of the absence of properly designed free flow intersections, and even now, some of the supposed free flow is far from being free flowing, as the speeds to negotiate some of the junctions are so low as to be almost dangerous, with the worst being on the Liffey Valley and Red cow junctions, where it's impossible to get up to M50 join speed having negotiated a sharp steep descending 270 degree turn at less than 50 Kph, the distance available to accelerate to road speed of 100 Kph is just too short, unless you're driving something with a lot more acceleration than 90% of the vehicles on Irish Roads.

The long term solution is an outer M50, that will provide an alternative ring route to the traffic that doesn't actually want to be involved with Dublin, but has no choice with the way that the road system is structured at present. The political will to do it will be hard to generate, and An Taisce will then create yet another firestorm of protest, which will delay things even further. The fact that it's critical infrastructure that's needed for the long term good of the Irish Economy will not get a look in, and so it will continue.

A new deep water port North of Dublin, somewhere around Balbriggan, with a motorway that connects from that port north of Ashbourne, and west of Maynooth to the M7 somewhere around the M7/M9 area beyond Naas would go a long way to solving many of the problems of the M50, but it won't happen in my lifetime.

The long term solution is not to build more roads it is to get people out of cars and into public transport, or other sustainable means of transport. The alternative is to just concrete over the entire country we need to stop investing in roads and start investing in fast reliable efficient methods of moving people around the city.

cgcsb

beauf wrote: »

They've already opened up access from lucan to coolmine and clonsilla with the changes to poterterstown rd etc. There is no capacity on the line for more passengers or parking. All its done has encourage more rat running, which has now expanded into the areas all around coolmine/clonsilla stations, portertown. Instead of pushing people onto public transport, it increased car traffic and congestion in the area.

Get everyone else out of the car, except yourself, isn't going to work. As everyone (using a car) thinks the same.

I'm not sure what you mean. What I propose is a public transport only road and bridge, not adding more car capacity.

cgcsb

Dravokivich wrote: »

Are you familiar with the areas around Carpenterstown you are suggesting this congestion should be diverted to?

I never suggested any diversions
There is sufficient room to widen Diswellstown road to accommodate bus lanes. Carpenterstown road may be a bit of a squeeze admittedly but doable.

Dravokivich wrote: »

There's already issues with congestion in Carpenterstown by locals during peak time alone as a result of Traffic lights by the Porterstown end and the railway crossing by Coolmine itself.

Ok

Dravokivich wrote: »

And there'd be feck all capacity on the route you are suggesting too. It's all narrow single lanes, with very little room to expand. A lot of the slopes along there would be very similar to Knockmaroon as well.

I don't think so, a widened Diswellstown road with new bus lanes and the existing bus lanes on the R113 could provide quite a fast and reliable bus service. Slopes can be addressed easily enough.

Idbatterim

The long term solution is not to build more roads it is to get people out of cars and into public transport, or other sustainable means of transport. The alternative is to just concrete over the entire country we need to stop investing in roads and start investing in fast reliable efficient methods of moving people around the city.

I totally agree, but at the moment, with the crap rail infrastructure we have, for a lot of people it is either impossible or impractical. DU, MN and linking the luas lines in progress, are all essential. When we have an acceptable transport alternative, then maybe charge for entering inside the M50 zone and then again into the canal zones, but only once a reasonable alternative is in place...

We could have been building away during the recession creating jobs and sorting out issues before officials couldnt bury their head in the sand any longer, but no... The sh**te short term planning, low rise docklands when there is a massive need for housing in dublin...

micks_address

one of the cheapest things that could be done would to be add barriers leading up to the exits.. frequently i see delays heading southbound exiting at the n7 purely because drivers leave it to the last 50 metres to take the exit, forcing breaking by everyone else already in the exit lane and cause a tailback.. if you had to get in the exit lane earlier.. it would greatly reduce this problem... see the same thing regularly coming off the m50 onto the m1 - drivers breaking and diving into the exit for the m1 very late.. causing everyone else to break hard.. and ripple the tailback further back

Connavar

micks_address wrote: »

one of the cheapest things that could be done would to be add barriers leading up to the exits.. frequently i see delays heading southbound exiting at the n7 purely because drivers leave it to the last 50 metres to take the exit, forcing breaking by everyone else already in the exit lane and cause a tailback.. if you had to get in the exit lane earlier.. it would greatly reduce this problem... see the same thing regularly coming off the m50 onto the m1 - drivers breaking and diving into the exit for the m1 very late.. causing everyone else to break hard.. and ripple the tailback further back

Would this not just push the problem back to the barrier. People will always leave it as late as they can

beauf

cgcsb wrote: »

I'm not sure what you mean. What I propose is a public transport only road and bridge, not adding more car capacity.

Where are all these people going to go to from coolmine? What capacity is on the roads for more buses and bus lanes?

cgcsb wrote: »

I never suggested any diversions
There is sufficient room to widen Diswellstown road to accommodate bus lanes. Carpenterstown road may be a bit of a squeeze admittedly but doable.
...
I don't think so, a widened Diswellstown road with new bus lanes and the existing bus lanes on the R113 could provide quite a fast and reliable bus service. Slopes can be addressed easily enough.

All this traffic is using Diswellstown (which is a residential area with 5 schools in the immediate area) as a rat run to go to town. It can't get out as there are three bottlenecks in the way. Ashtown/Navan RD, Castleknock Phoenix Park, Chapelizod. That applies to all the traffic in the general area.

It makes no sense to feed more people into heavily congested residential area's. When the vast majority are simply passing through that area.

Why not put priority bus lanes on the M50. It has direct links between all the major routes.

SeanW

You would have to deregulate the M50 as Motorway to put bus lanes on it. Additionally, I think there are parts with no/narrow hard shoulders.

beauf

Connavar wrote: »

Would this not just push the problem back to the barrier. People will always leave it as late as they can

Well it would also stop people who use the exit lane to queue skip then rejoin the M50 just before the exit point.

It all created a lot of lane changing which causes a lot of slowing down and speeding up.

cdebru

Idbatterim wrote: »

I totally agree, but at the moment, with the crap rail infrastructure we have, for a lot of people it is either impossible or impractical. DU, MN and linking the luas lines in progress, are all essential. When we have an acceptable transport alternative, then maybe charge for entering inside the M50 zone and then again into the canal zones, but only once a reasonable alternative is in place...

We could have been building away during the recession creating jobs and sorting out issues before officials couldnt bury their head in the sand any longer, but no... The sh**te short term planning, low rise docklands when there is a massive need for housing in dublin...

Yes but instead of building a new outer ring road that money should be invested in public transport and sustainable alternatives to private cars, personally I'd spend the billions on an outer metro ring with stations at each M50 interchange and car parking and, luas, metro, BRT or bus links along the main corridors to the city center and once you did that then charge a ridiculous price to bring a car inside the M50 and again inside the canals.

beauf

SeanW wrote: »

You would have to deregulate the M50 as Motorway to put bus lanes on it. Additionally, I think there are parts with no/narrow hard shoulders.

I think you'd also have to see if there as actually demand for it.

A bus doesn't leave you door to door. A lot won't leave their cars for this reason alone.

byrneg28

Europes biggest car park!

cdebru

beauf wrote: »

I think you'd also have to see if there as actually demand for it.

A bus doesn't leave you door to door. A lot won't leave their cars for this reason alone.

Once you provide the transport you make it ridiculously expensive and awkward to use the car and they will have to give it up. A case of if you build it they will come ( because we won't give them any choice) .

leanonme

cdebru wrote: »

Once you provide the transport you make it ridiculously expensive and awkward to use the car and they will have to give it up. A case of if you build it they will come ( because we won't give them any choice) .

I cant use public transport to get to work because of the nature of my work, so why should I be priced out of going to work because people who could use public transport don't.

My commute to work already costs me 35 euro, increase the cost of the m50 and what would be my point in going to work.

cgcsb

beauf wrote: »

Where are all these people going to go to from coolmine? What capacity is on the roads for more buses and bus lanes?

up Coolmine road, left at the t junction, right and right again towards Blanch S/C

There is suffienct Green space alongside these roads to have a bus lane almost the whole way.

beauf wrote: »

All this traffic is using Diswellstown (which is a residential area with 5 schools in the immediate area) as a rat run to go to town. It can't get out as there are three bottlenecks in the way. Ashtown/Navan RD, Castleknock Phoenix Park, Chapelizod. That applies to all the traffic in the general area.

Again, there is space alongside the existing road for a bus lane most of the way, so buses would have minimal interaction with this traffic.

beauf wrote: »

It makes no sense to feed more people into heavily congested residential area's. When the vast majority are simply passing through that area.

The bus route would provide a service to that residential area and operate mostly on segregated road space

beauf wrote: »

Why not put priority bus lanes on the M50. It has direct links between all the major routes.

Because nobody lives on the M50 and there can be no bus stops on the M50 so such a route would only be of use to express bus services.

cgcsb

beauf wrote: »

I think you'd also have to see if there as actually demand for it.

A bus doesn't leave you door to door. A lot won't leave their cars for this reason alone.

In the case of the M50, it's not a matter of seeing if there is demand for it. We are now in a fire fighting exercise, struggling to provide services for long established areas. There is of course a demand for a faster way to get from a to b

cgcsb

leanonme wrote: »

I cant use public transport to get to work because of the nature of my work, so why should I be priced out of going to work because people who could use public transport don't.

My commute to work already costs me 35 euro, increase the cost of the m50 and what would be my point in going to work.

Where inside the M50 can you not use public transport?

cdebru

leanonme wrote: »

I cant use public transport to get to work because of the nature of my work, so why should I be priced out of going to work because people who could use public transport don't.

My commute to work already costs me 35 euro, increase the cost of the m50 and what would be my point in going to work.

Because there is no other way to do it, everyone has a oh but I can't use public transport, or cycle or walk, because of x, y or z story, people apparently want to sit in cars for hours crawling along, so provide an alternative then charge those who dont use it, otherwise they will all continue to sit in their cars waiting for everyone else to give up first.

cdebru

cgcsb wrote: »

Because nobody lives on the M50 and there can be no bus stops on the M50 so such a route would only be of use to express bus services.

http://www.dublinbus.org/id49.html

Circle bus plan

beauf

cgcsb wrote: »

There is suffienct Green space alongside these roads to have a bus lane almost the whole way.

Again, there is space alongside the existing road for a bus lane most of the way, so buses would have minimal interaction with this traffic.

The bus route would provide a service to that residential area and operate mostly on segregated road space

Because nobody lives on the M50 and there can be no bus stops on the M50 so such a route would only be of use to express bus services.

Its like you don't know the area at all.

Theres bottlenecks in every direction from that road. Thats the holdup. Not the road itself. Expand the road all you like, the traffic has no where to go.

http://irishtransport.yuku.com/topic/8297#.VONWjvmsU1I

I see that from tomorrow Monday 8th route 239 will no longer serve the Diswellstown area and will now go the more direct way from Blanchardstown to Clonsilla and vise versa. This has been on the cards for a while now because at times route 239 was unable to keep to its timetable due to delays. Cutting out the Diswellstown and the Coolmine areas will save alot of time. The running time remains the same, one hour so route 239 should now keep well within its schedule.

IMO the vast majority of the traffic is travelling through this area. Not starting on it, or finishing at it.

They did the same thing in laurel Lodge. Only they built in two pinch points when they created the bus lanes. It (37) still gets caught in Castleknock, Navan RD, and everywhere else there's a bottle knock on that route.

Its like trying fill a bottle that's already full, pushing more traffic and people into this area.

beauf

cgcsb wrote: »

In the case of the M50, it's not a matter of seeing if there is demand for it. We are now in a fire fighting exercise, struggling to provide services for long established areas. There is of course a demand for a faster way to get from a to b

Its been like since before the M50.

But we're still stuffing people and business into Dublin West both sides of the river. There road capacity has actually decreased. Vastly more lights, less lanes for cars. And yet people move into the area expecting to use their car for primary transport.

The maths don't work.

cgcsb

beauf wrote: »

Its like you don't know the area at all.

Theres bottlenecks in every direction from that road. Thats the holdup. Not the road itself. Expand the road all you like, the traffic has no where to go.

Again there's enough green space for widening, and some cleaver design can help at pinch points, nothing that can't be easily solved, but thanks for your input.

leanonme

cgcsb wrote: »

Where inside the M50 can you not use public transport?

Well the whole hour that i drive before arriving at the M50 where public transport is not really available (coming from offaly), the fact that I drive off peak hours and could require my car at anytime while im at work, including during the night, so not everyone fits your one size fits all. Some people have no other option but to use the M50. Lots of people are commuting from areas where public transport is not an option.

beauf

cgcsb wrote: »

Again there's enough green space for widening, and some cleaver design can help at pinch points, nothing that can't be easily solved, but thanks for your input.

Well taking a cleaver to green space is sure to be a crowd pleaser.

_Kaiser_

leanonme wrote: »

Well the whole hour that i drive before arriving at the M50 where public transport is not really available (coming from offaly), the fact that I drive off peak hours and could require my car at anytime while im at work, including during the night, so not everyone fits your one size fits all. Some people have no other option but to use the M50. Lots of people are commuting from areas where public transport is not an option.

+1

Add to that a situation where because of rising rents, mortgage rule changes, and a lack of housing supply, people are being pushed out into the surrounding counties (again!) and this problem is only going to get worse as the economy improves.

Nothing significant will be done to address any of these issues in the next 12 months as promises to fix them will be used as "voter-bait" by all parties as the campaigning for GE 2016 really kicks off in the coming months.

Calina

cgcsb wrote: »

Where inside the M50 can you not use public transport?

Well that depends on practicality doesn't it?

I had a choice between a 25 minute commute cross city by car or a 90 minute commute cross city by bus. I drove it because at least it was reliable. The four weeks that I attempted to make the bus version work were hell on earth. This is within the M50.

It's one thing to say there is public transport. If you have a change in the city centre at all, either bus to bus or any sort of modal change, it can become impractical as an option as the time doesn't increase in a linear manner but in an exponential manner.

Arguably you can use it but it's not like your quality of life would be any better than sitting in a car for the same amount of time.

beauf

leanonme wrote: »

Well the whole hour that i drive before arriving at the M50 where public transport is not really available (coming from offaly), the fact that I drive off peak hours and could require my car at anytime while im at work, including during the night, so not everyone fits your one size fits all. Some people have no other option but to use the M50. Lots of people are commuting from areas where public transport is not an option.

Perhaps the cost could be claimed through a business then. Which would help differentiate you from non business traffic.

_Kaiser_

Calina wrote: »

Well that depends on practicality doesn't it?

I had a choice between a 25 minute commute cross city by car or a 90 minute commute cross city by bus. I drove it because at least it was reliable. The four weeks that I attempted to make the bus version work were hell on earth. This is within the M50.

It's one thing to say there is public transport. If you have a change in the city centre at all, either bus to bus or any sort of modal change, it can become impractical as an option as the time doesn't increase in a linear manner but in an exponential manner.

Arguably you can use it but it's not like your quality of life would be any better than sitting in a car for the same amount of time.

Couldn't agree more..

At one point in 2005 I did a year long commute from Blanch to Cherrywood.

Public transport involved standing on a train from Coolmine, doing the same for most of a DART trip from Connolly/Pearse, and a shuttle bus from the DART station to the industrial estate.

The trip back was the same but worse! The amount of times I was left standing on a platform in Pearse for an hour because the DART hadn't showed or was late was ridiculous... all told it was 3+ hours of my day wasted every time!

The same trip could be done (through town and all!) in under an hour by car. On the M50 it was even less time. It was this that finally prompted me to get my test and buy one.

Unless you're doing a simple A-B trip on one bus/train or WANT to go to "An Lar", public transport is generally not up to the task unless you're to spend hours of your day on it!

Dravokivich

cgcsb wrote: »

Where inside the M50 can you not use public transport?

Inside the M50? The likes of Crumlin / Drimnagh / Inchicore / Renelagh / Rathmines?

Those people should not own cars for themselves?

cdebru wrote: »

Because there is no other way to do it, everyone has a oh but I can't use public transport, or cycle or walk, because of x, y or z story, people apparently want to sit in cars for hours crawling along, so provide an alternative then charge those who dont use it, otherwise they will all continue to sit in their cars waiting for everyone else to give up first.

People do not feel incentivised by being punished into doing something. It is already expensive enough as it is to run a car in this country.

cgcsb

beauf wrote: »

Well taking a cleaver to green space is sure to be a crowd pleaser.

unfortunately not. But due to the fact that we didn't plan our suburbs, some corrective action is bound to cause upset. Is there an alternative?