Total War: Attila

grizzly

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe5ormI3j6o

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_War:_Attila

Anyone getting this? I picked it up for 30 through kinguin.

The above isn't an official trailer, just a nice fan made one.

degrassinoel

was burned badly with Rome 2, so I'm gonna wait and see how they manage the launch this time

Also, that video doesnt appear to be working

Dair76

Have heard it's in a much better state than Rome 2 was at launch, but think I'll wait for a while all the same.

nesf

Definitely going to wait. Also need to get around to playing Rome II more, I got badly turned off it playing it at launch and never really got back into it.

Gonzovision

Put around 500 hours into Rome 2, cannot wait for this....

Kiith

Might be the right time to pickup Rome 2 now.

Sephiroth_dude

Its out today? Any reviews floating about?

nesf

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

Its out today? Any reviews floating about?

That I haven't been hearing about it constantly before now makes me wary.

iggyigauna89

Reviews are pretty positive, 8/10's all round pretty much.
PC Gamer,
Polygon.
Quite tempted, but I'm gonna save my money for Homeworld.

nesf

iggyigauna89 wrote: »

Reviews are pretty positive, 8/10's all round pretty much.
PC Gamer,
Polygon.
Quite tempted, but I'm gonna save my money for Homeworld.

The reviews for Rome 2 were positive too. Mostly.

doccy

I have it. Superior to Rome 2 in every way.

hots

Glad to hear it's better but going to hold off for a while anyway, burnt by rtw2.

Sephiroth_dude

doccy wrote: »

I have it. Superior to Rome 2 in every way.

Hows the A.I?

Also theres viking dlc out today which seems kinda cool.

Gonzovision

hobbit of the shire wrote: »

Glad to hear it's better but going to hold off for a while anyway, burnt by rtw2.

You should give Rome another go, it's been a fantastic game for ages now. Launch was a disaster, and it took a year of patches, but it really is brilliant. I hear a lot of complaints about it, but usually from people who gave up on it in the early days.

hots

Gonzovision wrote: »

You should give Rome another go, it's been a fantastic game for ages now. Launch was a disaster, and it took a year of patches, but it really is brilliant. I hear a lot of complaints about it, but usually from people who gave up on it in the early days.

Yeah I really should, just made me fall out of love with the type of game to be honest, paired with having less time for it these days too...

The_Valeyard

Kiith wrote: »

Might be the right time to pickup Rome 2 now.

Bought it yesterday for 12.99, Emperor edition.


I......kinda.....like it. Feel bad, may start thread about it.

doccy

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

Hows the A.I?

Also theres viking dlc out today which seems kinda cool.

Hard to say. I played Rome 2 heavily modded so none of the battle mods have been ported over, so for me battles are still too fast. Campaign AI is insanely intense. It's a proper TW game. I never hated on Rome 2 especially with the Divide et Impera mod, but Attila is lights years ahead. One example- in Rome you could upgrade a few buildings, move an army around and hit end turn .. do that in this game and you will be destroyed. You need to think about everything you do, armies, politics, family tree, food, sanitation .. I love it.

Sephiroth_dude

doccy wrote: »

in Rome you could upgrade a few buildings, move an army around and hit end turn .. do that in this game and you will be destroyed. You need to think about everything you do, armies, politics, family tree, food, sanitation .. I love it.

I like the sound of that now I must say.

TheDoc

I remember playing Rome II on release and it was a struggle, has it being fixed up properly at this stage?

Total War is a series close to my heart, and the original Shogun was argueably what got me into PC gaming

The_Valeyard

This max four armies tis a tad annoying in Rome II


Is that the same in this new one?

Outkast_IRE

The_Valeyard wrote: »

This max four armies tis a tad annoying in Rome II


Is that the same in this new one?

Rome 2 isnt max 4 armies once you expand enough you will be left have more generals and admirals. this happens multiple times throughout a campaign as you expand

The_Valeyard

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Rome 2 isnt max 4 armies once you expand enough you will be left have more generals and admirals. this happens multiple times throughout a campaign as you expand

Damn well better. I need armies to conquer and expand for the glory of Rome!!!!

And a couple to leave in the provences to keep the people happy.....seriously I take The army out of a home provence and the happiness just flies into negative.

doccy

TheDoc wrote: »

I remember playing Rome II on release and it was a struggle, has it being fixed up properly at this stage?

Total War is a series close to my heart, and the original Shogun was argueably what got me into PC gaming

It was fixed as well as it could have been, and if you use a mod like Divide et Impera its actually a great game. Attila is the game Rome 2 should have been.

Outkast_IRE

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Damn well better. I need armies to conquer and expand for the glory of Rome!!!!

And a couple to leave in the provences to keep the people happy.....seriously I take The army out of a home provence and the happiness just flies into negative.

If you happiness is that poor its usually one of two reasons
1. Food Shortage - Real bad negative effect
2. Need more buildings that create happiness - Temples/Fountains/Entertainment (You need to balance commerce/barracks/happiness buildings)

There are other factors but those 2 are common ones. Obviously newly conqured territories are angry for a good few turns before settling down.

Packoman

I know it's unlikely, but is there a hotseat mode in this?

doccy

Packoman wrote: »

I know it's unlikely, but is there a hotseat mode in this?

Nope.

Drexel

I havent given Rome II a proper go yet so Il hold off on this. I gotta be in the mood for a TW game and I havent been since I got it

Wonda-Boy

Might reload Rome again have it here and patch the ass off it, my aging system might struggle with the new one all the same. Its an i5 @ 4gz with 8GB ram and a good work horse in the 6990 radeon.

doccy

Rome was pretty much fixed by the end apart from the original design flaws. The new total wars let you add mods directly from the start menu and it was the mods that saved the game. Once you start using them you cant go back.

I'd say as well that if haven't played a bit of Rome you'll be lost in Attila. The main problem in Rome is that if you survive to midgame you basically become an unstoppable superpower. I heard someone on reddit describe Attila as like being Hitler in your bunker watching your empire collapse around you, its counter intuitive compared to other Total War games.

CruelCoin

From the PC Gamer review:

" The Total War games still need work to reach that perfection they’re aiming for, and the bugs this close to release are worrying,."

I'm going to wait a year for them to finish. Not in the mood to once again be their beta tester.

Gonzovision

New DLC out tomorrow..... A bit ridiculous, a little over a week after release. I'll probably pick it up when the price comes down.

About the DLC:
The Longbeards Culture Pack brings three new playable factions to Total War™: ATTILA. The Langobards, the Burgundians and the Alamans may be used in Single or Multiplayer Campaign modes and Custom and Multiplayer battles.

After centuries facing the threat of Roman dominance, these three formidable and warlike Germanic kingdoms are ready at last to sweep forth in expansionist campaigns from their tribal homelands. The Western Roman Empire lies to the South, her border territories weak and ripe for the plunder. With their unique blend of new buildings, battlefield units and faction traits, The Longbeards are poised to exploit the chaos of the age.

In history, these factions would go on to found some of the great empires of the medieval period. Will you marshal their might to forge those empires yourself?


Cultural trait (Barbarian Kingdoms)
New Kingdoms: Building conversion rate -50%

Unique narrative event-chain: The Lay Of Ybor
Playing as these factions will present you with a new series of linked narrative events. The Lay Of Ybor is delivered in the style of a Germanic Saga, in which you direct the actions of a fabled hero through a series of branching narrative choices. As the story draws to its conclusion, Ybor himself becomes available as a general for your armies, complete with traits that mirror the choices you made.


Unique Faction Traits
These factions bear unique traits which differentiate their play-style in the Total War™: ATTILA Grand Campaign.

The Burgundians: Bred For The Hunt
Icy Determination: +10% unit replenishment
Harsh Sustenance: +15 food for every region with poor fertility

The Alamans: Germanic Unity
Frontiersmen: 15% increased melee attack versus romans.
Royal Splendour: +50% to general’s radius of influence in battle.

The langobards: Godan’s Chosen
Emancipators: Number of men recruited from defeated enemy forces is doubled.
The Fury of Our Maker’s Hand: +10% unit morale when fighting armies of other religions.

Unique mission objectives
Players waging a campaign with the Langobards, Burgundians or Alamans will receive a unique series of mission objectives over the course of the campaign. Among these is a new optional objective which offers you a substantial injection of wealth to abandon your settlements and become a true migratory faction.

Unique units
Complementing the Germanic barbarian unit roster, The Burgundians, Langobards and Alamans each have access to a number of unique units in battle:

Burgundians
• Barbed Skirmishers
• Barbed Javelinmen
• Scattershot Hurlers
• Elite Scattershot Slingers
• Burgundian Mounted Axemen
• Barbed Lancers
• Royal Lancers
• Burgundian Axemen
• War Hounds

Alamans
• Bejewelled Nobles
• Scavenger
• Alamannic Scavengers
• Elite Alamannic Scavengers
• Chnodomar's Raiders
• Protectores Defectors
• Captured Cheiroballistra

Langobards
• Young Wolves
• Godansmen
• Godan's Chosen
• Horse Hewers
• Horse Slayers
• Langobard Clubmen
• Scaled Clubmen


Unique buildings

Burgundians
• New ‘Curing’ building chain: Curing Shack -> Smokeshed -> Salt Warehouse


Alamans
• Court of Countless Kings: level 5 upgrade to Hall of Elders
• New ‘Gem’ building chain: Gem Deposit -> Gem Cutter -> Gem Setter -> Gem Connoisseur

Langobards
• New ‘Freedman’ building chain: Emancipation Ground -> Freedman Commune
• Beheading Copse
• Court of Godan’s Dance

New Ancillaries
The Longbeards Culture pack features several new ancillaries with which to bolster the skills and abilities of your campaign’s key characters:

• Pforzen Buckle: Siege defence bonus.
• Sacrificial Dagger: Cheaper religious buildings and stronger religious influence
• Godan’s Inspirer: Increases damage and melee skill at the expense of armour
• Benevolent Swindler: Increases money gained from embezzlement.

The Lay of Ybor does sound interesting in fairness. I will hold off as I'm still on my first campaign play through with the Visigoths. I have just occupied Rome and making my way down the Italian peninsula.

Kirby

I'm doing a campaign as the Jutes and you have loads of settlements and money one minute and 2 turns later your empire is in flames and you are broke.

This game is hard.

Gamer Bhoy 89

I'm more anxious to see how the game is after the patch is released tomorrow. Supposed to improve performance on AMD GPUs and reduce VRAM usage during battles.

Full Patch Notes here

Sephiroth_dude

Kirby wrote: »

I'm doing a campaign as the Jutes and you have loads of settlements and money one minute and 2 turns later your empire is in flames and you are broke.

This game is hard.

Ahhh jaysus! How did you lose it all in two turns?

doccy

After 25 years in game all that remains of my Western Roman Empire is Spain, my Emperor assassinated. The economy has been stabilised and Rome can now once again pump out top tier Legions. I was tempted to wait out the Apocalypse but the Huns have begun to appear on the edge of Gaul, and the land in Spain is loosing fertility. The reconquest of North Africa has begun.

There's some nice touches in this game. One of my best Generals rebelled after being overlooked for military office. He was defeated north of Barcelona, but instead of being destroyed the Emperors daughter eloped with him, and the remnants of his army escaped into Gaul where they seem to have hooked up with some separatists. Oh Hilarius, Rome will hunt you down one day.

Gonzovision

doccy wrote: »

There's some nice touches in this game. One of my best Generals rebelled after being overlooked for military office. He was defeated north of Barcelona, but instead of being destroyed the Emperors daughter eloped with him, and the remnants of his army escaped into Gaul where they seem to have hooked up with some separatists. Oh Hilarius, Rome will hunt you down one day.

That's class

Mr Blobby

Anyone know if there's a co-op campaign like Shogun?

Kirby

Gonzovision wrote: »

That's class

But harsh! I had to choose between castrating or blinding one of my generals! :eek:

He already had one son so I chose to lop them off. I figure he might be a little uncomfortable in the saddle, but at least he can see where he's charging! :P

Drexel

Kirby wrote: »

But harsh! I had to choose between castrating or blinding one of my generals! :eek:

He already had one son so I chose to lop them off. I figure he might be a little uncomfortable in the saddle, but at least he can see where he's charging! :P

That's great!

There stuff like in Rome II do you know?

doccy

jonny666 wrote: »

That's great!

There stuff like in Rome II do you know?

Rome 2 was a good game but it was the mods that made it great by the end. Divide et Impera was the most popular overhaul mod but it would be hard enough if you haven't played Total War before. It basically adds seasons, better graphics, waaay more units, slower battles. Its also more historical, you don't have legionnaires after 10 turns. Also as you start to conquer you can start using foreign units which is really cool.

Once you get into it though its a black hole that sucks hours out of your day :P

Drexel

doccy wrote: »

Rome 2 was a good game but it was the mods that made it great by the end. Divide et Impera was the most popular overhaul mod but it would be hard enough if you haven't played Total War before. It basically adds seasons, better graphics, waaay more units, slower battles. Its also more historical, you don't have legionnaires after 10 turns. Also as you start to conquer you can start using foreign units which is really cool.

Once you get into it though its a black hole that sucks hours out of your day :P

Is it worth playing unmodded first at all? I do usually like to give the original game a go first.

I'm well versed in TW, just haven't gotten round to Rome II. Am planning on getting stuck in this weekend.

doccy

jonny666 wrote: »

Is it worth playing unmodded first at all? I do usually like to give the original game a go first.

I'm well versed in TW, just haven't gotten round to Rome II. Am planning on getting stuck in this weekend.

Ah yeah absolutely, its a really good game despite what a lot of people say. The only problems I had with the base game was the too fast battles (same in Attila), its one turn a year instead of four, and the fact that that you get top tier roman troops too quickly (same in Attila). Once you get the hang of it though, go with Divide et Impera.

Kirby

doccy wrote: »

Ah yeah absolutely, its a really good game despite what a lot of people say. The only problems I had with the base game was the too fast battles (same in Attila), its one turn a year instead of four, and the fact that that you get top tier roman troops too quickly (same in Attila). Once you get the hang of it though, go with Divide et Impera.

They actually did fix that in patches. In my opinion by the end of Rome2's patches, the battles took too long.

There is a happy medium and in my opinion Attila hits that spot nicely.

With regards to top tier units, the romans start with better units but if you play a barbarian tribe, you have to research and spend a lot of gold to get the best units.

Gonzovision

DLC and patch have been delayed a week.

doccy

Kirby wrote: »

They actually did fix that in patches. In my opinion by the end of Rome2's patches, the battles took too long.

There is a happy medium and in my opinion Attila hits that spot nicely.

With regards to top tier units, the romans start with better units but if you play a barbarian tribe, you have to research and spend a lot of gold to get the best units.

That's the beauty of Total War, it's about personal preferences. Attila's battles are still a tad too fast for me so when the Steam workshop is open I'll get something to slow them down.

The point about units in Rome is more about the DeI mod. In that you have to wait for actual historical reforms before you get access to certain higher units, its scripted into the mod.

Dair76

I've always been a TW fan, and credit to CA for that. But it's really been the modding community that has given each game in the series such longevity for me.

Gonzovision

More DLC incoming.....

As the skies darken, Rome’s grip on the Brittanic isles weakens. The native tribes sense that their hour of emancipation is at hand; the time is right to expand their rule by axe and fire. From the mists at the very edge of the world, the Celts rise!

Playable for the first time in ATTILA, the Celtic tribes of the Ebdanians, Caledonians and Picts specialise in swift and deadly warfare. Every unit in the Celtic roster has the Guerrilla Deployment trait, enabling them to deploy almost anywhere on the battlefield – even behind enemy lines.

The Celts are a raiding, looting and sacking based culture type. Each faction benefits from its own unique traits, but all share Celtic cultural traits that vastly increase their income from these activities. An all-new Celtic roster is available for recruitment, alongside new units unique to each faction.

Also included are new objectives, skills, tier-5 buildings, ancillaries and a new narrative event-chain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wrdBy6VZYE

Gonzovision

More info from the Steam page. Won't have time to pick it up yet myself, but will no doubt down the line. Release date is March 25.

About the DLC:
The Celts Culture Pack brings three new playable factions to Total War™: ATTILA. The Picts, the Caledonians and the Ebdanians may be used in Single or Multiplayer Campaign modes and Custom and Multiplayer battles.

As the grasp of Western Rome weakens on the Britannic isles, these fierce tribes stand ready to proclaim their independence and reclaim their ancestral lands. But even as the empire recedes, others are setting their sights on The Tin Islands. The warlords of Germania and the Nordic regions look to the northwest and see a prize worth fighting for…

• Celtic forces specialise in ambush tactics and ‘Guerrilla Deployment’.
• New Celtic roster with unique new units for each faction.
• New Prestige Buildings, requiring great feats to unlock.
• New unique raiding building chain and Celtic-themed technologies.
• Bespoke Celtic generals’ skill trees.
• Unique narrative event chain: Cycle of the Ollam Ri, and new Celtic missions for each faction.


Cultural traits (Celts)

Specialising in ambush tactics, all units in the Celtic faction rosters have the Guerrilla Deployment trait. This enables them to deploy every unit in their army almost anywhere on the battlefield – even behind enemy lines. As specialists, Celtic nations should not be expected to perform as all-rounders; an experienced commander will play to their strengths with deadly effect.

Befitting their skilful application of these traits, sacking, looting and raiding are key sources of income for the Celts and this is reflected in many aspects of their gameplay style and the additional bonuses they receive.


Ebdanians
Alongside the common Celtic traits for raiding, the Ebdanians also have a talent for sacking and looting that combined gives them a unique playstyle and unrivalled potential for profiting bloodily at their enemies’ expense.

Picts
As ‘Children of the Night’, the Picts rightfully earn their reputation as skilled nocturnal combatants at land and sea, and may always choose to attack at night. With bonuses to morale in the dark, and a reliance on heavy assault and berserker units, an ambushing Pict army is the literal stuff of nightmares.

Caledonians
Silver-tongued, wily and deadly in the arts of sabotage and assassination, the Caledonians breed individuals of incredible charm, menace and murderous skill. All Agents from this faction are eager to step forward for duty, more efficient in their assigned tasks and far more likely to succeed.




Unique narrative event-chain: Cycle of The Ollam Ri
Playing as these factions will present you with a new series of linked narrative events. The Cycle of The Ollam Ri draws much inspiration from Celtic mythology, and sees you direct the actions of a fabled hero through a series of branching narrative choices. As the tale draws to its conclusion, Ollam Ri himself becomes available as a general for your armies, imbued with traits that mirror the choices you made.

Celtic Units
All three factions share a Celtic unit roster consisting of a range of troop types across three tiers. Such as the Sighthound Spears heavy wardogs, Mormaer heavy cavalry and the elite light infantry, Scatha's Teachers.


In addition to this standard roster, each faction has its own unique units:

Ebdanians
• Gallowglass: Tier 2 very heavy sword infantry
• King's Warband: Tier 3 very heavy sword infantry
• Ebdani Raiders: Tier 2 light javelin skirmishers
• Kerns: Tier 2 light javelin skirmishers
• Righdamhna: Tier 3 light javelin skirmishers
• Ebdani Cavalry Raiders: Tier 2 light skirmisher cavalry
• Chosen Raiders: Tier 3 light skirmisher cavalry
• King's Fianna (General): Tier 3 very heavy melee cavalry

Caledonians
• Cateran Brigade: Tier 2 very heavy spear infantry
• Horse Whisperers: Tier 3 very heavy spear infantry
• Caledonian Axemen: Tier 2 very heavy axe infantry
• Highland Archers: Tier 2 light bow infantry
• Elite Highland Archers: Tier 3 light bow infantry
• Noble Archers (General): Tier 2 medium bow infantry
• Royal Archers (General): Tier 3 medium bow infantry

Picts
• Pictish Axemen: Tier 2 light axe infantry
• Pictish Swordsmen: Tier 2 medium sword infantry
• Black Blades: Tier 3 light sword infantry
• Pictish Berserkers: Tier 2 light axe berserkers infantry
• Followers Of Morigan (General): Tier 3 very heavy axe infantry

Unique buildings
The resourceful Celts benefit from a unique farming chain that is not reliant on fertility. Enclosures can be upgraded to Cattle Pounds and then a Booley, mobilising self-sufficient herds of livestock.

Characterful of their playstyle, a new raiding chain is also unique to Celtic factions. ‘Raiders’ Assembly Point’ can be enhanced to a ‘Raiders’ Gathering Place’, then a ‘Raiders’ Base’ and finally a Raiders’ Hall’. This quick-to-build chain, each tier of which takes a single turn to build, confers significant bonuses to raiding adjacent regions and offers public order and garrison bonuses, making it excellent for newly conquered regions.


New Mechanic: Prestige Buildings
The Celts Culture Pack introduces three new Tier 5 buildings, unlocked through a new game mechanic. The Bards’ Hall, the Temple of Belenus and the Central Market confer significant bonuses, and alongside the necessary technological requirements, these buildings require the player to meet specific gameplay conditions in the form of great feats in the fields of religion, trade and warfare.



Faction History

Ebdanians
The Ebdanians hold the seat of power at a tumultuous but opportune moment. Occupying the island called 'Hibernia' by the Greeks and Romans, they were first recorded in the Greco-Egyptian writer Ptolemy's 2nd century AD treatise on 'Geography'. Making their home on the eastern shores, the tribe settled between two river estuaries - the Buvinda and Oboca, approximately where the city of Dublin now lies.

Relationships between clans is what drove barbarian culture and society, as clans intermarried, traded and warred with one another. Tribal life in Gaelic Ireland revolved around the clan, an extended family built on kinship, loyalty and, generally, a common ancestry. Hibernian clans were supposed to have been descended from one man, the authority to rule passing down the male bloodline. This means that most clansmen were of the same blood, although fostering and adoption were as common as in other parts of the world. Clans were led by their chieftain, who sat at the top of a strict hierarchical social structure.

Much like the Picts of Caledonia, the tribes of Hibernia have never been conquered by the Roman Empire, though they have traded with it - as evidenced by the discovery of Roman coins across the island. From their well-positioned, defensible capital the Ebdanians control their own destiny; they could rise to rule over the Celtic world, and none on these fair isles - or beyond - will be able to deny them!

Caledonians
The Caledonians are northern Britannia's first line of defence against Imperial Rome, and bar the way north for any would-be invaders. Although their true heritage has been much debated, they are believed to be an amalgamation of Pictish tribes and those fleeing the Roman advance into Britannia, surviving mostly in a series of hillforts and farms stretching across the highlands of Scotland.

Unfortunately, most historical sources on the Caledonians are of Roman origin, with the usual Roman bias in the reporting; for instance, Tacitus refuses to use terms such as 'king' to describe the Caledonian leader Calgacus, although this may be because he was unsure of their internal hierarchy. They are first mentioned by Tacitus as fighting at the Battle of Mons Graupius, which they lost once the Legions forced them from the hills into an open field battle, as opposed to the guerrilla-style tactics naturally favoured by the rocky terrain. In mentioning the Caledonians, Tacitus also describes them as the stereotypical definition of red haired, long-limbed “northmen” - furious and barbaric to a man.

In the centuries following Mons Graupius, the Caledonians have remained a belligerent thorn in the Empire's side, constantly crossing into Britannia to raid - and often successfully. Despite dogged Imperial efforts, they steadfastly refuse to be cowed, and stand now against a darkening world, poised to take back what is rightfully theirs!


Picts
The Picts are resolute defenders of their homeland, which lies at the far north of the Britannic Isles. The Romans tried for many years to bring them under control - the Emperors Hadrian and Antoninus even resorting to building walls across the country in order to control the passage of, and trade between, Imperial subjects and the savage, tenacious "northmen". The general focus on defence during Hadrian's tenure has led some to the notion that his wall was more than a mere trade gateway - it was intended to keep the Picts and other Caledonian peoples out.

Broadly, the Picts remain an enigmatic people who left no written records behind. However, we know they fought hard and against the invaders because the Roman historian Tacitus made specific references to their defiance in his 'Histories'. It is also likely that 'Picti' (in Latin) was simply a general term used by the Romans for any number of northern tribes whom they considered "painted ones", in reference to the common Celtic tribal custom of tattooing and painting the body before battle.

The Picts were part of the ill-fated Great Conspiracy of AD367-368, when barbarian raids were co-ordinated with the desertion of the Roman garrison along Hadrian's Wall, and almost succeeded in wresting power from the Empire in Britannia and northern Gaul. Now, on the cusp of the 5th century AD, the Picts must rekindle old alliances if they wish to take their country back. Britannia, and indeed the Empire at-large, awaits the outcome - could this be the beginning of a unified Celtic empire in the north, one that will sweep away Roman oppression once and for all?

Reiver

I need a new laptop, this sounds class.