Alarm Advice

emtulsk

Hi all,

Looking for some advice on choosing an alarm system, a close family member recently purchased a holiday apartment about 2 hours drive away. There are 15 apartments in his block and no internal communal areas (i.e. everyone has an external door for access). All timber frame internally and on one storey with a large mezzanine covering some of the living area.

Ideally, he would like to be able to monitor the system and arm, disarm and re-arm the system after an activation, along with having smoke & heat alarms in the system, remotely.

HKC would do here, except for the yearly fees and also that it would be nice to have controllable outputs as the apartment has storage heating and night-rate water heating (hot water tank heats up on night rate every night), and so we will be fitting a contactor to be able to turn on the storage heating and night water heating circuit remotely the day before he goes down. This can be done separately by GSM unit but it would be nice to have everything in the one system.

From the little I know about alarms, I think this takes out HKC and GSD, and leaves Siemens, Risco and probably more I haven't heard of.

Comms-wise, theres no landline in the building at all, as far as I know. So something with 3G would be nice, but not a must (can sort a 3G modem separately). And no wiring for an alarm in the building so wireless sensors if possible.

I know its a long list but it would be great and very easy to manage if it was possible

Thanks in advance!

KoolKid

Siemens or Risco LightSYS would be a good choice here.
GSD Might manage it, but I'm not sure if they are there yet with switching outputs from the app.
On this feature Siemens would be my recommendation with the flexibility of control using cause & effect & calendars etc.
Siemens don't have wireless shocks. But with it being part of a block of apartments I would be recommending contacts & PiRs anyway.

emtulsk

Thanks for the quick reply KoolKid

Would you mind if I PM'd you re features & prices?

KoolKid

Not a problem. Give us a shout any time.;)

altor

emtulsk wrote: »

Hi all,

Looking for some advice on choosing an alarm system, a close family member recently purchased a holiday apartment about 2 hours drive away. There are 15 apartments in his block and no internal communal areas (i.e. everyone has an external door for access). All timber frame internally and on one storey with a large mezzanine covering some of the living area.

Ideally, he would like to be able to monitor the system and arm, disarm and re-arm the system after an activation, along with having smoke & heat alarms in the system, remotely.

HKC would do here, except for the yearly fees and also that it would be nice to have controllable outputs as the apartment has storage heating and night-rate water heating (hot water tank heats up on night rate every night), and so we will be fitting a contactor to be able to turn on the storage heating and night water heating circuit remotely the day before he goes down. This can be done separately by GSM unit but it would be nice to have everything in the one system.

From the little I know about alarms, I think this takes out HKC and GSD, and leaves Siemens, Risco and probably more I haven't heard of.

Comms-wise, theres no landline in the building at all, as far as I know. So something with 3G would be nice, but not a must (can sort a 3G modem separately). And no wiring for an alarm in the building so wireless sensors if possible.

I know its a long list but it would be great and very easy to manage if it was possible

Thanks in advance!

If you are going to use GPRS then HKC as well as other systems mentioned can have remote access this way. Either way there is going to be a fee for the sim involved. GSM would also work in your case for texting outputs.
I would not be recommending contacts & PiRs regardless of it being an apartment block. Just contacts on a window leave it vulnerable to a gross attack if the window is not open. PIRs will only activate once an intruder is in the premises. Thats if they are on in part set too.

KoolKid

If you are going to be paying a subscription you would be better off getting some broadband connection for your money. You would be also free to switch providers down the line if you wish. With HKC you will be tied to them as your provider for the lifetime of your alarm . If you cancel you will have no remote access. With Siemens the web server is on board the panel you will always be able to connect to your panel either directly or via their free cloud service.
You will also be free to connect to whatever internet connection you want. Even if you have an internet connection HKC won't let you connect your panel to that.
WRT sensors on apartments , each to their own. My opinion is they are a model for false alarms. Some fella starts drilling or hammering in the block & next thing alarms go off everywhere. I have been doing apartments like this for over 20 years & have never had one break-in in the way Altor describes.
Of course, if it makes you feel more secure, by all means pay the extra for them, after all thats part of the function of a security system.

altor

I would rather have an alarm go off falsely through a neighbour drilling than an intruder gaining entry through a window.
Each to there own I suppose.

KoolKid

In my experience a system that false alarms to much does more harm than anything else. It just gets ignored. We all have one near us.

altor

KoolKid wrote: »

In my experience a system that false alarms to much does more harm than anything else. It just gets ignored. We all have one near us.

Totally different situation than what we are talking about.

KoolKid

Not really. Lots of false alarms are caused by using the wrong detection for the environment of the system.

altor

KoolKid wrote: »

Not really. Lots of false alarms are caused by using the wrong detection for the environment of the system.

So if you install a system in a house and it not detached you wont use shock sensors as you are afraid a neighbour using a drill next door will set off the alarm?

Would you use shocks on windows in a ground floor apartment?

KoolKid

A semi detached or terraced house is not the same as an apartment block. If you think it is you don't know much about construction.
That's probably why we never see apartment blocks full off your alarms. I have been doing blocks of apartments for nearly 20 years and not one issue.
Would you also treat a commercial or industrial building the same??

altor

KoolKid wrote: »

A semi detached or terraced house is not the same as an apartment block. If you think it is you don't know much about construction.
That's probably why we never see apartment blocks full off your alarms. I have been doing blocks of apartments for nearly 20 years and not one issue.
Would you also treat a commercial or industrial building the same??

If you think proper perimeter protection is using contacts and PIRs to back it up you have a lot to learn regardless to how long you are in the business.

If that is the false security you want to provide these people that is up to you and the company that you work for.

I may not have done entire apartment blocks but have plenty done for people on here with no problems using shocks to protect there windows and doors.

KoolKid

I have posted many times promoting perimeter protection using shocks and contacts first so please stop quoting me out of context. It makes you look like you are not reading what you are replying to or you don't understand the difference.
However good installers would know what environments suit different types of detection.
I could count 1000s of apartments we have installed like this with never one break in like you envisage. If I was to calculate all those sensors I could have added that's a hell of a lot of money unnecessarily spent.
Then again some people/companies are more motivated by sale value.
A bit like the way some companies try push subscriptions for apps and use etc.

altor

KoolKid wrote: »

I have posted many times promoting perimeter protection using shocks and contacts first so please stop quoting me out of context. It makes you look like you are not reading what you are replying to or you don't understand the difference.
However good installers would know what environments suit different types of detection.
I could count 1000s of apartments we have installed like this with never one break in like you envisage. If I was to calculate all those sensors I could have added that's a hell of a lot of money unnecessarily spent.
Then again some people/companies are more motivated by sale value.
A bit like the way some companies try push subscriptions for apps and use etc.

To be honest I take what you say in each thread with a pinch of salt as there is no real consistency unless you are slating others

I suppose this is out of context too:

KoolKid

You skipped through a hell of a lot of posts and you dig up one where I listed contacts and PiR. Congratulations. It would have been better if you read the post first. The poster asked for advice on using a Siemens so in that context I advised contacts and PiRs.
Maybe in your searches goto Dictionary.com and search context.
Your confused yet again.
I am not slating anyone, as usual you are like a dog with a bone. It's amazing how quiet and peaceful it is around here when you vanish for a few days. Amazing that if I am slating everyone.

altor

KoolKid wrote: »

You skipped through a hell of a lot of posts and you dig up one where I listed contacts and PiR. Congratulations. It would have been better if you read the post first. The poster asked for advice on using a Siemens so in that context I advised contacts and PiRs.
Maybe in your searches goto Dictionary.com and search context.
Your confused yet again.
I am not slating anyone, as usual you are like a dog with a bone. It's amazing how quiet and peaceful it is around here when you vanish for a few days. Amazing that if I am slating everyone.

Not advise him to use 3rd party devices
Anyway that was another thread.

Yeah it was peaceful when you gave up posting in here...

KoolKid

There are lots of things I advise and do . It depends on individual situations.
A bit like the way you could have quoted 1000s of my posts where I recommend shocks and contacts but you deleved through them all to find one where I didn't without even paying attention to the reason.
Sad really.
I enjoyed my holiday as well. Got lots of PMs asking me to contribute more what can I say...

altor

KoolKid wrote: »

There are lots of things I advise and do . It depends on individual situations.
A bit like the way you could have quoted 1000s of my posts where I recommend shocks and contacts but you deleved through them all to find one where I didn't without even paying attention to the reason.
Sad really.
I enjoyed my holiday as well. Got lots of PMs asking me to contribute more what can I say...

I know, sure do you remember telling someone about the coverage of the PIR........
No shocks advised then either but hay, its all good if that's the line you want to take..

You classed it as a holiday, that's just sad really...

KoolKid

I apologise you have finally gone so off topic you have lost me. And probably everyone else along with it..
Maybe just start a thread where you dig up every post you can find and have a row about it..
All because I don't use shocks on apartments??
I don't think I have even come across someone else's system where there are shocks in apartments..
So is there any application were you would not use shock sensors?

altor

Whatever..

Stoner

Lads,

This is a joke. Will you please stop fighting, it has been dragging on for years.

You are forcing my hand to do something I don't want to do.

It is possible for you both to be exist here, but you both need to learn to ignore the other.

If you'd like me to demonstrate how many users here just want you to stop let me know, you will both be shocked.

There is a pair of you in it, please leave the other alone, and stop ruining threads.