Losing everything after 3 days in rental

Arbiter of Good Taste

dubrov wrote: »

OP, you'll need to contact the PRTB to confirm what applies to your situation.

I really can't see how they can keep your deposit given there is no lease.
An implied lease isn't worth the paper it is printed on.

There doesn't need to be a lease!!!!

For future reference a contract does not need to be in writing.

TheChizler

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

This may be true for periodic tenancies, but the OP is bound by a fixed term lease and the 28 days notice doesn't discharge their duties to the term. As I already said, however, the landlord is required to minimise their loss by renting it out again asap.

It depends if the lease, or part of the lease, was valid or not. As they hadn't even seen it by the time the tenancy started I can't be sure they'd have to abide by terms within it. As I said they knew before they moved in it would be a fixed term, so they might be screwed on that part.

mrbrianj

The agent has shown the property, (maybe more than once), arranged keys, provided contracts and copies. Also they probably had some dealing with Utilities, even if only readings. They receive their fee when the property is let. This could be around the €700 mark.
Who carries this cost?

The property has been rented (if only for 30 days and lived in for just 3). There may be a mortgage to pay every month.
Other interested parties may have rented elsewhere and it is never good for business if the property is re advertised immediately.

Now I know thats all the landlord problem, and so it should be. But maybe the landlord is entitled to think that your change of mind is not his problem either.

I know how hard getting the right place to live is, and I do feel sorry for you going through the ringer this time. But when you do get the right place and are sure of this you wont regret dodging this place.

cerastes

acb wrote: »

I really feel having been in Australia and seen how rental market is regulated over there in relation to proper procedure with deposits / bonds...why are the PRTB not doing something similar here? As i said earlier, we are landlords ( though not out of choice) and I feel the PRTB are of no assistance to either landlords or renters

Tbh that is of no concern

acb wrote: »

literally 3 pm on Saturday we met her there and got the key.
Tuesday morning 9am we rang and said we were moving out. By late afternoon we were gone.

I don't have any solid reasons for moving out- as I said earlier we realised we made a big mistake.
We are only back in Ireland (a month today) after 3 years away and moved to a very rural part of the country with no one around us. I just felt completely isolated and rather than try to preserve , said just move out. So thats what we did! I can't tell you it was any one thing but a combination of lots of things...Feb wasn't helping!!

So as it stands, we are down 1,400 EUR

We just want half of that back which sounds reasonable to us (maybe we re completely in the wrong!)

and after further reading, Id be pretty annoyed with this kind of attitude myself, of taking it and then moving out on the same day.
Can you clear up whether this was supposed to be a fixed term lease or not?

acb wrote: »

Nope haven't found anywhere better- we ve moved back in with family...we re starting to consider moving back into our apartment with the 2 little kids.

We know we messed them around and do genuinely feel really awful about it but my god 1400 is just a huge amount of money. I feel absolutely sick about it.

@conorhaul...thats the thing we never signed any lease.

Doesnt matter, you agreed to move in and actually did, in the least have you supplied a correct termination notice given you are so particular about the rules being followed elsewhere?

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

This may be true for periodic tenancies, but the OP is bound by a fixed term lease and the 28 days notice doesn't discharge their duties to the term. As I already said, however, the landlord is required to minimise their loss by renting it out again asap.

Has this been removed? I couldnt see this mentioned and tried to get clarification.

TheChizler wrote: »

It depends if the lease, or part of the lease, was valid or not. As they hadn't even seen it by the time the tenancy started I can't be sure they'd have to abide by terms within it. As I said they knew before they moved in it would be a fixed term, so they might be screwed on that part.

If they had a fixed term lease, they would have to abide by it.

The thing is, the agent may need to be paid again, so the landlord may get them to get someone else in and technically they might charge the landlord again, in all likelyhood they will have others that viewed, but if its remote maybe they wont.
So even in the case of a periodic lease, if the property is being let again, the landlord may have to pay a second time, If it was a fixed term lease then the OP would be liable for the full term, never mind what they feel they have lost up till this point, and it wouldnt be unreasonable to expect them to pursue, however unlikely that is.

ie
be warned and read any lease agreement before you get into it, Id say verbally agreeing to it was the contract signed and irreversible, but moving in was it sealed.

The Op may have an out if its a periodic lease but unless the agent thgrough goodwill gets another, well they did source the tenant, but its not their fault or the landlords.
my sympathy waned there after reading more.

cerastes

mrbrianj wrote: »

The agent has shown the property, (maybe more than once), arranged keys, provided contracts and copies. Also they probably had some dealing with Utilities, even if only readings. They receive their fee when the property is let. This could be around the €700 mark.
Who carries this cost?

The property has been rented (if only for 30 days and lived in for just 3). There may be a mortgage to pay every month.
Other interested parties may have rented elsewhere and it is never good for business if the property is re advertised immediately.

Now I know thats all the landlord problem, and so it should be. But maybe the landlord is entitled to think that your change of mind is not his problem either.

I know how hard getting the right place to live is, and I do feel sorry for you going through the ringer this time. But when you do get the right place and are sure of this you wont regret dodging this place.

Its the landlords problem, but its not their fault.

The OP seems to think 1400 has just vanished into thin air, the first 700 was for the rent, at the least they should have stayed for the time they paid and made use of it as that is gone anyway, maybe they should have given it a chance I think, the 700 for the deposit may suffer deductions legitimately out of proportion to the duration of stay, ie advertising the property again, changing utilities, agent fee mostly. The landlord would be justified in being unhappy with this scenario.

seamus

acb, unfortunately you seem to be a victim of your own rashness in this episode.

You handed over money without seeing contracts presumably because you felt under pressure to secure it.

Then after only 3 days you decided to move out rather than give 28 days' notice and just stick it out for those 28 days.

It would be understandable if the property was unfit for habitation or burned down after 3 days, but you seem to have just decided that you didn't like it.

Since you're staying with family it seems to me that you could have arrived back in Ireland, stayed with them while you found a place and reviewed the property and contracts before handing over any cash.

Others have already dealt with the deductions that can be made from your deposit at this stage.

There is a slight chink here around contracts in relation to agreeing to contracts that you have not seen. That is, in the past some people have managed to get out of a contract on the basis that they agreed to it without having seen it and therefore it (or part of it) was invalid.

However, in general a judge won't entertain this argument unless one was threatened/coerced into the contract, the contract contains grossly unreasonable or atypical terms ("failure to give proper notice will require 2 years rent to be paid in full"), or the contract was unreasonably withheld from you.

In any scenario, taking a case is a painful and expensive experience with no guarantee of winning. You've only lost €700 (and you might get some of that back). You'll have to chalk this one down to experience and take more care to consider the consequences before acting rashly.

dubrov

ted1 wrote:

A lease can be implied, them moving in implies that they accept it

Surely it only implies they were happy to move in.

I don't understand how a contract can be enforced when it hasn't been signed or even seen.

The_Morrigan

dubrov wrote: »

Surely it only implies they were happy to move in.

I don't understand how a contract can be enforced when it hasn't been signed or even seen.

It's a concept in contract law...acquiescence

dubrov

Thanks. I've looked it up.

I can see how moving in implies certain things but surely not a 12 month contract.

If that was the case any landlord could let short term and force a 12 month lease.

The_Morrigan

dubrov wrote: »

Thanks. I've looked it up.

I can see how moving in implies certain things but surely not a 12 month contract.

If that was the case any landlord could let short term and force a 12 month lease.

Lease was provided on the Saturday with the keys, they waited until the Tuesday to up sticks and leave. That is plenty of time to review and sign a lease agreement imo. If they had refused the keys until they had signed the lease maybe they could argue otherwise but they didn't.

Also consider a verbal agreement to rent under the terms of the advertisement. Most ads have the duration listed.

conorhal

conorhal wrote: »

It's a bit confused, since you moved in you forfit the first months rent that you paid in advance but you are entitled to say for the duration that you have paid for. As for the deposit, is it explicit in the lease you signed that it is forfit if you break the lease? Smart move on the part if the landlord if its as he's not just out of pocket for the cost of re-advertizing but also for rental income until the place is let again which can take a very long time in rural areas. If it is in the lease as I think you indicated then you are unlikely to get the money back.
I'm having a hard time sympathizing to be honest, it's messing of the highest order on your part.

sorry......Landlord is not entitled to keep the deposit. I have been both a landlord and a tenant and I can see if from both sides. However I am sympathethic as the rental costs in Dublin could push anyone into a rash decision now! This was a mistake and not done deliberately. Isolation is a killer and maybe even a month would have been too much. Check out Citizens Information website (here is quote) and also ring PRTB/Threshold for verification. (I have broken leases and got my rent back - and as a landlord I have given deposits back always unless there was damage)

Obligations of a landlord

As a landlord, you must:

• Provide a a Building Energy Rating (BER) for the property
• Register the tenancy with the PRTB
• Provide your tenant with a rent book or statement of rent paid
• Make sure that the property meets certain minimum standards
• Repair and maintain the interior of the property to the standard it was in at the start of the tenancy
• Repair and maintain the structure of the property
• Reimburse tenants for any repairs they carry out which are your responsibility
• Insure the property (if it is impossible to get insurance, or if the cost is unreasonable, this obligation doesn’t apply)
• Provide the tenant with information about any agents who are authorised to deal on your behalf (such as management companies, agencies, personal representatives)
• Ensure the tenant knows how to contact you (or your agent)
• Give tenants 28 days notice of a rent review
• Provide tenants with a valid notice of termination (in writing) if terminating the tenancy. Read more information on termination here.
• Return deposits to the tenants (unless they have not paid the rent or have damaged the dwelling)

You must also make sure that the tenants meet their obligations. Anyone who is affected by your tenants’ failure to meet their obligations can make a complaint against you to the PRTB. Read more on tenants' obligations here.

acb

U P D A T E **

Ok so thought Id be a good OP and post the outcome.

I contacted the letting agent again yday and they are going to return 700Eur and keep other 700EUR.
We re completely fine with this. Obviously loosing 700Euro hurts but we know it was our fault.

Just glad I can forget about it now and move on.

Thanks for everyones advice.:)

rightoldpickle

Good result. Costly lesson but that happens. Hope it all turns out well for you. It's tricky moving home!

cerastes

cerastes wrote: »

Its the landlords problem, but its not their fault.

The OP seems to think 1400 has just vanished into thin air, the first 700 was for the rent, at the least they should have stayed for the time they paid and made use of it as that is gone anyway, maybe they should have given it a chance I think, the 700 for the deposit may suffer deductions legitimately out of proportion to the duration of stay, ie advertising the property again, changing utilities, agent fee mostly. The landlord would be justified in being unhappy with this scenario.

acb wrote: »

U P D A T E **

Ok so thought Id be a good OP and post the outcome.

I contacted the letting agent again yday and they are going to return 700Eur and keep other 700EUR.
We re completely fine with this. Obviously loosing 700Euro hurts but we know it was our fault.

Just glad I can forget about it now and move on.

Thanks for everyones advice.:)

Id consider yourselves lucky, also, you didnt really lose the money.
You know where it went and what it was for, saying its lost suggests you had no control or hand in it being spent, you voluntarily took on a lease and voluntarily ended it..