Chelsea Fans Stop A Black Man Boarding A Train In Paris (Read Mod Note in OP)

efb

CSF wrote: »

What does that have to do with the post you quoted? Where did anyone suggest that the average football fan supports racist yobs instead of the football team? Strange to deny something so vehemently that was never even loosely suggested.

Wow, I quoted wrong post - apologies

efb

ronjo wrote: »

I am not so sure thats true.
Would you follow Arsenal if the majority of fans were homophobic and chanted anti gay songs at games?

I would campaign against the homophobia and get arsenal to address it

CSF

GavRedKing wrote: »

I'm defending the club, not the idiots the drag the clubs name through the gutter.

Across the globe you're going to get thugs and scumbag support a club and because they wear a jersey and sing songs the majority get dragged through the ringer.

I've no want or need to defend any fans or set of fans, as to my mind anyone acting like that isnt a fan just an idiot who happens to be wearing the same colours as me.

I don't think that anyone is suggesting that this has any bearing on you, or other Chelsea fans. But to suggest that this doesn't have any bearing on the club as an entity is misled imo.

If this was a video of a group of 6 Chelsea fans helping an old woman onto the train, it would be claimed in the name of Chelsea, the club would be tweeting it, and we would be saying lovely things about Chelsea. Those 6 people would form no more of a majority of Chelsea fans than these guys and I think its important to maintain balance in these sort of situations.

efb

CSF wrote: »

I don't think that anyone is suggesting that this has any bearing on you, or other Chelsea fans. But to suggest that this doesn't have any bearing on the club as an entity is misled imo.

If this was a video of a group of 6 Chelsea fans helping an old woman onto the train, it would be claimed in the name of Chelsea, the club would be tweeting it, and we would be saying lovely things about Chelsea. Those 6 people would form no more of a majority of Chelsea fans than these guys and I think its important to maintain balance in these sort of situations.

Coming from a game yes- in day to say no

ronjo

ronjo wrote: »

I am not so sure thats true.
Would you follow Arsenal if the majority of fans were homophobic and chanted anti gay songs at games?

Of course they would, arsenal fans are terribly 1 dimensional.

ronjo

efb wrote: »

I would campaign against the homophobia and get arsenal to address it

but you would have started supporting them anyway being a gay guy and knowing the majority of their fans were homophobic?

hullaballoo

magma69 wrote: »

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/chelsea-supporters-arrested-racial-chanting-five-home-405314

Firstly, you criticise GRK's language comprehension out of nowhere (in fact, your reply to his post indicates you didn't get his post at all) but now you're quoting an article that does nothing more than indicate that more Chelsea fans were arrested for racist chanting in the stadium.

You know what that means, right? It doesn't necessarily mean there are more racists amongst Chelsea fans, it could be that racist chanting is acted upon by CFC fans and stewards more than other clubs.

If you're throwing statistics about, learn how to read them rather than relying on someone else's non sequitur qualitative analysis.

efb

ronjo wrote: »

but you would have started supporting them anyway being a gay guy and knowing the majority of their fans were homophobic?

Arsenal fans are not in the majority homophobic and arsenal have made moves against homophobia with the rainbow laces ad. I completed a gay spurs flag in their match at the weekend.

But giving in to yobs/ rascists/ homophobs let's them win - it must be challenged.

ronjo

efb wrote: »

Arsenal fans are not in the majority homophobic and arsenal have made moves against homophobia with the rainbow laces ad. I completed a gay spurs flag in their match at the weekend.

But giving in to yobs/ rascists/ homophobs let's them win - it must be challenged.

I am speaking in the hypothetical here but I am sure you know that...

efb

ronjo wrote: »

but you would have started supporting them anyway being a gay guy and knowing the majority of their fans were homophobic?

That some what aboutary. I only started supporting arsenal cos my mate was a spurs fan and family pool fans anyway. The Gay thing wasn't an issue at 12

efb

ronjo wrote: »

I am speaking in the hypothetical here but I am sure you know that...

I wouldn't let homophobia stop me from supporting any club

CSF

efb wrote: »

Coming from a game yes- in day to say no

Well this is coming from a game, it's 100% a Chelsea thing. It doesn't reflect badly on your average Chelsea fan who lives a normal non-bigoted life, but it does for sure on the club. How badly varying based on the magnitude of incidents and the amount of people involved.

efb

ronjo wrote: »

but you would have started supporting them anyway being a gay guy and knowing the majority of their fans were homophobic?

Hypothetically yes.

GavRedKing

All I can hope for is the club deal with it.

Ideally you dont have those types suporting a club and they dont get to have their voice heard and given attention but here we are.

Your mans defence though is laughable from the article a few pages back.

This is good to see. though.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/feb/18/met-police-join-search-chelsea-fans-caught-abusing-black-man-film-paris-metro

Hopefully theyre caught and face tough justice

If found guilty, those responsible could face at least three years in prison and a fine of €45,000.

efb

CSF wrote: »

Well this is coming from a game, it's 100% a Chelsea thing. It doesn't reflect badly on your average Chelsea fan who lives a normal non-bigoted life, but it does for sure on the club. How badly varying based on the magnitude of incidents and the amount of people involved.

Chelsea released a statement condemning the actions tbf.

magma69

hobbit of the shire wrote: »

As I posted earlier, more arrests (not incidents) doesn't mean more racists. Not denying anything, just pointing out the lack of evidence.

I get the impression that no amount of evidence would be adequate to convince you. T

That evidence, anecdotal evidence over the years, headhunter fans' links to racist organisations is enough for me to suggest they have a larger racist contingent than other clubs.

Lovely Bloke

efb wrote: »

Why does it beggar belief, if you said it's nothing to do with fans????

where I say that?

You're getting yourself tied up in knots pal, subscribing words to people who said no such thing.

These guys were Chelsea fans (not "so-called fans" not "idiots wearing Chelsea colours" they are Chelsea fans), Chelsea as a club DOES have a history of attracting this kind of, and anyone supporting this club is associating themselves with this behaviour.

It's no secret that Chelsea fans have a history of this, so why any Irish person would willingly associate themselves with that is strange.

It's also no secret that a sizable contingent of Arsenal fans sang vile songs at Ashely Cole, again, why anyone who identifies with the group being targetted by those songs would want to associate themself with that club and set of fans is equally strange.

efb

rarnes1 wrote: »

I agree with you there but trying to police that is another thing

Something must be done, it only takes for good men to do nothing for evil to flourish

hullaballoo

CSF wrote: »

To be fair, it was the 'This isn't a Chelsea thing' argument that came in beforehand for the most part. It isn't unreasonable to point out that it is. It was done by Chelsea fans after a Chelsea match.

I haven't said it's not a Chelsea thing. It's something the club has said it will deal with. Most of the people who posted earlier in the thread saying it wasn't just a Chelsea thing aren't Chelsea fans. We're not denying these racist thugs were flying our banner. We're denying that it's representative of us in any way.

P4DDY2K11 wrote: »

The headhunters had ties to combat 18 which is a blatantly racist neo nazi organisation or whatever the fúck that pack of scrotes want to call themselves. To say Chelsea fans haven't had a large history of racism in days past is outrageous.

I don't think anyone's denying the headhunters/shed end boys/combat 18/Rangers groups ever existed? Of course they did but even when they were at their most prevalent, they were a minority. Football fandom was different then, most clubs had "firms" and there was a huge amount of racism all over the place. Thankfully, that was dealt with by the Clubs with the help of authorities and most of those cúnts went to jail or got barred from football events for life.

efb

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

where I say that?

You're getting yourself tied up in knots pal, subscribing words to people who said no such thing.

These guys were Chelsea fans (not "so-called fans" not "idiots wearing Chelsea colours" they are Chelsea fans), Chelsea as a club DOES have a history of attracting this kind of, and anyone supporting this club is associating themselves with this behaviour.

It's no secret that Chelsea fans have a history of this, so why any Irish person would willingly associate themselves with that is strange.

It's also no secret that a sizable contingent of Arsenal fans sang vile songs at Ashely Cole, again, why anyone who identifies with the group being targetted by those songs would want to associate themself with that club and set of fans is equally strange.

They challenge the vile fan behaviour and support the players on the field- it's quite simple really

pistolpetes11

magma69 wrote: »

I would say every single club in the Premiership has at least some racist, fascist fans. Thing is, Chelsea has so much more than other clubs. Their anti-Irish bigotry is also notable. Worst fans in the Premiership imo. Second only to Rangers in the UK.

Let's not fool ourselves though, there are dcikheads at every club.

Going to the Bridge the last 6/7 years and never ever came across this Anti-Irish Bigotry you talk of

efb

Bam Bam Mickey wrote: »

Of course they would, arsenal fans are terribly 1 dimensional.

It's the team I support, not it's fans

ronjo

efb wrote: »

Hypothetically yes.

Ok, fair enough.

efb

efb wrote: »

It's the team I support, not it's fans

The one thing we agree on!

Lovely Bloke

efb wrote: »

They challenge the vile fan behaviour and support the players on the field- it's quite simple really

Have you challenged it personally? Have you stood up in Highbury / The Emirates and directly challenged homophobes, racists and other bigots?

Or has it "not happened" the days you were there?

Did you write letters to Arsenal FC complaining about the fans who chanted at Cole?

How have you challenged it?

Lovely Bloke

Also, can you address the point of you subscribing words to me that don't exist, thanks.

efb

Anyone that knows me, knows I'm fiercely political, campaign and March for human rights and against racism and sexism, I support fathers' rights, women's rights etc not just things that directly affect me. Chelsea fc made a statement and said they would take action against any fans implicated, I'm sure they have equality programmes in the club, that's as much as can be expected of them

SpaceTime

Sad reflection on a rather pathetic aspect of society who will use football clubs or national flags as an excuse to vent their own adequacy at some person who happens to be in reach.

Chelsea needs to send a very clear message that it's totally unacceptable and that they're not welcome at the club but that doesn't mean it's the club's fault. They just need to keep thugs like that from hijacking its symbols!

It shows one thing clearly though : act like a thug and you'll end up videoed on a smartphone and all over the internet and facing possible legal and social consequence.

efb

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Have you challenged it personally? Have you stood up in Highbury / The Emirates and directly challenged homophobes, racists and other bigots?

Or has it "not happened" the days you were there?

Did you write letters to Arsenal FC complaining about the fans who chanted at Cole?

How have you challenged it?

Yes. I expressed my disappointment to Arsenal FC at the fans behaviors

keeponhurling

I know this not a popular opinion but anyways;

It is more a society problem that that of any particular football club or organization.
All these people have done is buy tickets for Chelsea matches and events.
They are not at an event, they are on public transport.

There is a reason that clubs in certain countries have more racist fans than others. It's the feckin' society.

If I opened a bar in certain parts of London, or even parts of Russia, chances are I'd have some racist customers from time to time.

Soccer gets too much blame. You dint want expressions of racism at any game, but ultimately the teams they support aren't their mammies either

efb

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Given the history of the Chelsea fan base, it absolutely beggars belief that they actually do have Irish fans, it's mind boggling in fact.

You said this. I said that people support a clubs team not their fans - So what beggars belief???

CSF

keeponhurling wrote: »

I know this not a popular opinion but anyways;

It is more a society problem that that of any particular football club or organization.
All these people have done is buy tickets for Chelsea matches and events.
They are not at an event, they are on public transport.

There is a reason that clubs in certain countries have more racist fans than others. It's the feckin' society.

If I opened a bar in certain parts of London, or even parts of Russia, chances are I'd have some racist customers from time to time.

Soccer gets too much blame. You dint want expressions of racism at any game, but ultimately the teams they support aren't their mammies either

Nobody is suggesting that racism doesn't exist outside of sport. But in this case its Chelsea fans being transported from (or to?) a Chelsea game.

Lovely Bloke

What has this...

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Given the history of the Chelsea fan base, it absolutely beggars belief that they actually do have Irish fans, it's mind boggling in fact.

to do with this...

efb wrote: »

Why does it beggar belief, if you said it's nothing to do with fans????

Are you misunderstanding something or being obtuse?

efb

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

What has this...



to do with this...



Are you misunderstanding something or being obtuse?

What beggars belief?? I don't get why you think Irish people can't support Chelsea (if it's not about fan behaviour)

vicwatson

Knob ends, I'm afraid every club has a section of gutless idiots, look at the twats tackling our chairman David Sullivan after the WBA game last Saturday.

These aren't football "fans", they are scum that use football as an excuse to go on the tear and act like prats.

Lovely Bloke

efb wrote: »

What beggars belief?? I don't get why you think Irish people can't support Chelsea

because of the history of the fans.

I believe the club is linked to the fans.

It's unreasonable to assume otherwise, as the club cannot exist without them.

efb

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

because of the history of the fans.

I believe the club is linked to the fans.

It's unreasonable to assume otherwise, as the club cannot exist without them.

Again I support a team, not it's fan Base. I won't let thugs stop me and I would challenge the behaviours

Lovely Bloke

efb wrote: »

Again I support a team, not it's fan Base. I won't let thugs stop me

that's a nice voxpop, but in reality you are associating yourself with the behaviour of that group of which you are a member "Arsenal Fans" - be that good behaviour or bad.

• Oh look, there's an Arsenal fan who rallies against injustice, what a great bunch of lads!
  
• Oh look, there's an Arsenal fan singing horrible songs at Ashley cole, what a bunch of cocks. :mad:

efb

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

that's a nice voxpop, but in reality you are associating yourself with the behaviour of that group of which you are a member "Arsenal Fans" - be that good behaviour or bad.

• Oh look, there's an Arsenal fan who rallies against injustice, what a great bunch of lads!
  
• Oh look, there's an Arsenal fan singing horrible songs at Ashley cole, what a bunch of cocks. :mad:

Only by people who can't tell the difference

efb

That's reminds me of MET Group think- oh there's a young black man-made he must be up to no good. Guilty by association is not right or fair.

ush

I'm shocked. Chelsea fans too. Never would have expected that. Especially with their excellent arrest record against racial abuse.

citytillidie

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Really? Oh, interesting. Presumably they will leave it up to the club to ban them and the Met to nick them. Will they be handed over to the French rozzers I wonder.

Sure it did not happen in the ground, UEFA have always used that excuse not to punish Turkish or Italian clubs for fan behaviour away from the ground so they cant start now

Mickeroo

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

that's a nice voxpop, but in reality you are associating yourself with the behaviour of that group of which you are a member "Arsenal Fans" - be that good behaviour or bad.

• Oh look, there's an Arsenal fan who rallies against injustice, what a great bunch of lads!
  
• Oh look, there's an Arsenal fan singing horrible songs at Ashley cole, what a bunch of cocks. :mad:

Both those statements are sweeping generalisations based on the behaviour of a tiny percentage of the fan base, one happens to be positive one happens to be negative. If someone thinks either is a good representation of something as large and diverse as the entire fan base they're probably a bit dim though.

You can be a racist homophobe or a shining light of tolerance, neither preclude you from having good taste when it comes to your chosen football team and your actions are pretty irrelevant to most other fans when it boils down to why they follow a team.

Richard Hillman

vicwatson wrote: »

Knob ends, I'm afraid every club has a section of gutless idiots, look at the twats tackling our chairman David Sullivan after the WBA game last Saturday.

These aren't football "fans", they are scum that use football as an excuse to go on the tear and act like prats.

I hate when people say football is great as it's an escape from day to day life for a lot of people. Its more like an abuse of football.

For some reason 80s football thuggery and "away days" culture gets glorified by people. Any time you see a programme or read something about thuggery in the 80s they always harp on about unemployment, Thatcher etc. All these guys did was abuse football to hide from their ****ty lives.

I do not think it is a coincidence that you rarely see racism at Premier League grounds since Sky football and the rise in ticket prices.

CSF

vicwatson wrote: »

Knob ends, I'm afraid every club has a section of gutless idiots, look at the twats tackling our chairman David Sullivan after the WBA game last Saturday.

These aren't football "fans", they are scum that use football as an excuse to go on the tear and act like prats.

They are football fans. Chelsea fans to be exact. They go to football matches every week in alot of cases. More than alot of people. Football fan is unfortunately not synonymous with nice or decent person and it doesn't make sense to quantify it based on that.

efb

I detest the glorification of football fan violence and adoration of teams "firms"

rob316

My dad lived in London for 15 years and he said its a constant head scratcher that any Irish person supports Chelsea Football Club. A club known for it's anti-irish and racist fan base.

CSF

rob316 wrote: »

My dad lived in London for 15 years and he said its a constant head scratcher that any Irish person supports Chelsea Football Club. A club known for it's anti-irish and racist fan base.

The globalization of football has changed things alot though. The influx of fans from lots of different countries around the world has seriously diminished the identity of alot of English (and some other) football clubs, sometimes in a negative way, in this case in a somewhat positive one.

The negative stereotype that goes along with Chelsea fans these days is far more the new age gloryhunter than the hooligan racist.

cadaliac

rob316 wrote: »

My dad lived in London for 15 years and he said its a constant head scratcher that any Irish person supports Chelsea Football Club. A club known for it's anti-irish and racist fan base.

Things have moved on, son.

niallo27

We do love to jump on a bandwagon here in fairness. Are people really outraged about what a group of a few idiots did that has nothing to do with you. There are a lot worse things going on in the world.