Chelsea Fans Stop A Black Man Boarding A Train In Paris (Read Mod Note in OP)

grumpymunster

DVDM93 wrote: »

Sorry. What I meant was that you think they spent hundreds on flights and accom over to Paris the night of their clubs game but weren't at the game supporting Chelsea?

What were they doing over there if not at the game?

Doubt they spent hundreds on flights and hotels London - Paris is much easier than Anywhere in Ireland - Paris. A bus trip would be less than £50 hotels in the Pigalle district very cheap (also can be very dodgy).

You seem to like assumptions even more so wrong assumptions.

efb

So again all clubs including Chelsea have moronic supporters. We all agree.

lee_baby_simms

efb wrote: »

I was challenging those that said Zola was incorrect to say they weren't real fans- I explained why. Where's the difficuulty?

Because Zola only said that to distance the club from them. It means nothing.

A real fan is someone who represents the club. Period. Attends matches, wears the strip etc. It doesn't matter if they're a neo nazi with a criminal conviction or a tee total priest. A club cannot choose its fans or dicate how they should behave no more than Zola can declare who is a fan or not.

efb

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

Because Zola only said that to distance the club from them. It means nothing.

A real fan is someone who represents the club. Period. Attends matches, wears the strip etc. It doesn't matter if they're a neo nazi with a criminal conviction or a tee total priest. A club cannot choose its fans or dicate how they should behave no more than Zola can declare who is a fan or not.

A club can dictate how it's fans behave and have done so in the past

DVDM93

grumpymunster wrote: »

Doubt they spent hundreds on flights and hotels London - Paris is much easier than Anywhere in Ireland - Paris. A bus trip would be less than £50 hotels in the Pigalle district very cheap (also can be very dodgy).

You seem to like assumptions even more so wrong assumptions.

I'm sorry. I guessed the prices wrong. My bad. Terrible mistake. It wasn't as if travelling to Paris for the sake of racially abusing a man was my point.

Read back over my posts by the way. All these assumptions don't hold water, fair enough, but this isn't a fcuking court room. What happened to common sense.

They were over there for the game imo and I won't throw common sense and logic out the window because I've no proof of them being at the game.

lee_baby_simms

efb wrote: »

A club can dictate how it's fans behave and have done so in the past

haha yeah Lazio have no problems keeping their ultras in line!

grumpymunster

Ah well admitting that you are guessing is at least a start.

It is the double standards that apply to Chelsea that finds resonance with most Chelsea fans, but then that happens to successful teams I guess.

ronjo

grumpymunster wrote: »

Ah well admitting that you are guessing is at least a start.

It is the double standards that apply to Chelsea that finds resonance with most Chelsea fans, but then that happens to successful teams I guess.

Do you think they were over for the game?

cadaliac

I can't believe I'm still reading (and posting) in this.

Pro. F

efb wrote: »

I was challenging those that said Zola was incorrect to say they weren't real fans- I explained why. Where's the difficuulty?

The difficulty is that your argument explaining why some people aren't real fans is very stupid. You can't even define what a real fan is yet you think you can distinguish them from non-real fans.

DVDM93

grumpymunster wrote: »

Ah well admitting that you are guessing is at least a start.

It is the double standards that apply to Chelsea that finds resonance with most Chelsea fans, but then that happens to successful teams I guess.

Using this incident as a means of poking the stick at Chelsea as a whole is bad. But people like yourself who assume people like myself are doing it is just sad and feeling sorry for yourself. I've made it quite clear that my disgust is towards this minority in Paris and not Chelsea. What does how successful Chelsea are have to do with anything?

Yes, I admitted to guessing that this minority went over to Paris for the game. Oh the shame in using my common sense. You have me there.

efb

Pro. F wrote: »

The difficulty is that your argument explaining why some people aren't real fans is very stupid. You can't even define what a real fan is yet you think you can distinguish them from non-real fans.

If you bring a clubs name into disrepute I would think that would disqualify you as a real fan? Would you not agree?

DVDM93

efb wrote: »

If you bring a clubs name into disrepute I would think that would disqualify you as a real fan? Would you not agree?

So what about players or managers who bring their clubs name in to disrepute? Does this disqualify them as a 'real' player/manager. Is this 'real' you keep using a moral thing in your eyes or a factual definition?

efb

DVDM93 wrote: »

So what about players or managers who bring their clubs name in to disrepute? Does this disqualify them as a 'real' player/manager. Is this 'real' a moral or factual definition?

If they bring the club into disrepute they are punished accordingly

ronjo

Ask a question............ expect an answer to a different one

DVDM93

efb wrote: »

If they bring the club into disrepute they are punished accordingly

As will this minority of Chelsea fans who were over in Paris Tuesday night. You haven't answered my question.

efb

DVDM93 wrote: »

So what about players or managers who bring their clubs name in to disrepute? Does this disqualify them as a 'real' player/manager. Is this 'real' you keep using a moral thing in your eyes or a factual definition?

Also players and managers get monetary reward, not in the case of fans - so a different relationship

DVDM93

efb wrote: »

Also players and managers get monetary reward, not in the case of fans - so a different relationship

Answer my question please.

grumpymunster

DVDM93 wrote: »

Using this incident as a means of poking the stick at Chelsea as a whole is bad. But people like yourself who assume people like myself are doing it is just sad and feeling sorry for yourself. I've made it quite clear that my disgust is towards this minority in Paris and not Chelsea. What does how successful Chelsea are have to do with anything?

Yes, I admitted to guessing that this minority went over to Paris for the game. Oh the shame in using my common sense. You have me there.

I don't feel sorry for myself at all we didn't lose the game so that was grand (deserved or not is a different story). I do feel sorry for the chap that was at the brunt of it, hopefully they will clearly identify who did what and to whom and if there is a case to answer then there will be civil and public action against those involved.

But law abiding fans were subjected to a tear gas attack by the Police before the game and as I mentioned earlier disabled Chelsea supporters were the subject of bombardment at the same venue last season but that seems to be OK.

Were the guys on the Metro over there to watch the match I assume they were, do I know this to be true no I don't. Thing is when I don't know I will either say I am hazarding a guess or that I am making an assumption. Then everyone knows it is merely my opinion and can be treated as one sees fit. In fairness you have tried by and large to see both sides but there is a lot of anti Chelsea venom as well from others.

DVDM93

grumpymunster wrote: »

I don't feel sorry for myself at all we didn't lose the game so that was grand (deserved or not is a different story). I do feel sorry for the chap that was at the brunt of it, hopefully they will clearly identify who did what and to whom and if there is a case to answer then there will be civil and public action against those involved.

But law abiding fans were subjected to a tear gas attack by the Police before the game and as I mentioned earlier disabled Chelsea supporters were the subject of bombardment at the same venue last season but that seems to be OK.

Were the guys on the Metro over there to watch the match I assume they were, do I know this to be true no I don't. Thing is when I don't know I will either say I am hazarding a guess or that I am making an assumption. Then everyone knows it is merely my opinion and can be treated as one sees fit. In fairness you have tried by and large to see both sides but there is a lot of anti Chelsea venom as well from others.

So basically we 100% agree with each other and you just assumed I was an anti Chelsea venemous individual? Nothing to do with the game itself. My posts are all about the train incident. Looking for this when it clearly wasn't the case is why I said you're feeling sorry for yourself. I feel just as sorry for those innocent Chelsea fans.

DVDM93

DVDM93 wrote: »

So what about players or managers who bring their clubs name in to disrepute? Does this disqualify them as a 'real' player/manager. Is this 'real' you keep using a moral thing in your eyes or a factual definition?

efb?

Soups123

efb wrote: »

If you bring a clubs name into disrepute I would think that would disqualify you as a real fan? Would you not agree?

So about half the stadium then?

Same for players? if they bring the club into disrepute are they not players of the club?

grumpymunster

DVDM93 wrote: »

So basically we 100% agree with each other and you just assumed I was an anti Chelsea venemous individual? Nothing to do with the game itself. My posts are all about the train incident. Looking for this when it clearly wasn't the case is why I said you're feeling sorry for yourself. I feel just as sorry for those innocent Chelsea fans.

Actually didn't read your posts as particularly anti Chelsea more making a statement about assumptions. Still I guess this topic is close to running its course now so focus on Burnley and Scarlets now.

efb

Soups123 wrote: »

So about half the stadium then?

Same for players? if they bring the club into disrepute are they not players of the club?

They have a contract - slightly different

efb

DVDM93 wrote: »

Answer my question please.

Is comparing apples and oranges one has a contract the other doesn't

GavRedKing

....and we're done.

Thread gone well off topic.

GavRedKing

Those invovled were handed down stadium bans home and abroad.

Rightfully too.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-33622106

marklazarcovic

stamp out racism ? .. no,we will allow ye back in a few years...wrong message imo..lifetime bans is proper message,it wasnt just a name calling incident.

the_monkey

Was it known that that ex RUC lad was chanting ???

Or is this just another anti Chelsea witchhunt ?

Barklie, 50, of Victoria Street in Carrickfergus, a director with the World Human Rights Forum, had admitted twice pushing Mr Sylla, but blamed the Parisian for using "aggression" and shouting.

The judge, however, said Barklie, a former policeman, "proved to be a menace" and had "demonstrated aggressive, disorderly conduct".

He said Parsons played a leading role too and displayed "aggressive and disorderly conduct as part of a pack of Chelsea fans".

Speaking outside court, Barklie said he was considering appealing against the judge's decision.

He said: "I am surprised that the judge has disregarded the evidence of the person best placed to see what happened on that train - Mr Sylla.

"Mr Sylla's statements to the French police made clear that I was not involved in any racist activity."

He doesn't exactly fit the profile of a racist thug tbh .... The judge seems to know a lot about this - was he there ?
Or is he getting his info. from preconceived notions of Chelsea fans.

Hope he wins his appeal.

Alfred Borden

Fair play to Chelsea

https://twitter.com/SkySportsNewsHQ/status/623892821909602304

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

hots

Alfred Borden wrote: »

Fair play to Chelsea

https://twitter.com/SkySportsNewsHQ/status/623892821909602304

That's more like it, hopefully should make those idiots keep their thoughts to themselves and out of Chelsea / other football clubs.

That_Guy

And yet John Terry is still allowed to pl....

niallo27

Your man that was abused was on there. I am still waiting for my compensation for me and my family. Would he be due compensatition.

GavRedKing

niallo27 wrote: »

Your man that was abused was on there. I am still waiting for my compensation for me and my family. Would he be due compensatition.

I reckon if he wanted to take a civil case against the lads then maybe.

I dont think he'd get anything from Chelsea unless they gave him some gesture of a pay off for what he endured.

niallo27

GavRedKing wrote: »

I reckon if he wanted to take a civil case against the lads then maybe.

I dont think he'd get anything from Chelsea unless they gave him some gesture of a pay off for what he endured.

I'll probably get crucified for this but I think he knew what he was doing that night. All he talked about tonight was money. The Chelsea fans were 100% to blame but does anyone agree with me he knew what he was doing.

GavRedKing

niallo27 wrote: »

I'll probably get crucified for this but I think he knew what he was doing that night. All I talked about tonight was money. The Chelsea fans were 100% to blame but does anyone agree with me he knew what he was doing.

Cant condone what was captured on video but there could be an element of "where theres a blame, theres a claim".

Its hard to tell without seeing exactly what happened before hand, as I said it still doesnt condone what was sung and that they physically pushed him off the train.

CSF

niallo27 wrote: »

I'll probably get crucified for this but I think he knew what he was doing that night. All he talked about tonight was money. The Chelsea fans were 100% to blame but does anyone agree with me he knew what he was doing.

What he was doing in what way? Getting on a train? Even with a tonne of football fans you couldn't possibly foresee that happening. And not just happening, being videotaped also.

niallo27

CSF wrote: »

What he was doing in what way? Getting on a train? Even with a tonne of football fans you couldn't possibly foresee that happening. And not just happening, being videotaped also.

He couldn't forsee trouble getting into a carriage with football fans singing racist songs. I don't understand why he didn't walk away. Can you understand why he persisted in trying to get on. And don't try to make this into me condoning what the Chelsea fans did which I am sure you are dying to do. I just found it odd all he talked about was compensation he wanted for the pain his family went through.

adox

niallo27 wrote: »

He couldn't forsee trouble getting into a carriage with football fans singing racist songs. I don't understand why he didn't walk away. Can you understand why he persisted in trying to get on. And don't try to make this into me condoning what the Chelsea fans did which I am sure you are dying to do. I just found it odd all he talked about was compensation he wanted for the pain his family went through.

Not everyone's solution, when confronted with hatred is to walk away.

Bizzare question to ask.

You seem to be implying the minute he found himself in the situation that he thought " oh, let's stick with this, there could be a few quid to be made here".

CSF

niallo27 wrote: »

He couldn't forsee trouble getting into a carriage with football fans singing racist songs. I don't understand why he didn't walk away. Can you understand why he persisted in trying to get on. And don't try to make this into me condoning what the Chelsea fans did which I am sure you are dying to do. I just found it odd all he talked about was compensation he wanted for the pain his family went through.

It's not that I'm dying to do anything, it's just the train of events you're looking at is improbable. He didn't get on a carriage with football fans singing racist songs. He got on a carriage with football fans who didn't let him on and then started singing racist songs. Lots of black people have gotten on carriages full of football fans. There is no way he could have seen that play out. He also wouldn't have known it'd have been caught on videotape and without the video footage it would have gone right under the radar.

niallo27

adox wrote: »

Not everyone's solution, when confronted with hatred is to walk away.

Bizzare question to ask.

You seem to be implying the minute he found himself in the situation that he thought " oh, let's stick with this, there could be a few quid to be made here".

Yes he seemed more interested in compensation than the Chelsea fans getting convicted. What pain did his family go through from this.

niallo27

CSF wrote: »

It's not that I'm dying to do anything, it's just the train of events you're looking at is improbable. He didn't get on a carriage with football fans singing racist songs. He got on a carriage with football fans who didn't let him on and then started singing racist songs. Lots of black people have gotten on carriages full of football fans. There is no way he could have seen that play out. He also wouldn't have known it'd have been caught on videotape and without the video footage it would have gone right under the radar.

I may be wrong but I thought the Chelsea fans were singing the racist songs and being recorded doing it before your man came along.

adox

niallo27 wrote: »

Yes he seemed more interested in compensation than the Chelsea fans getting convicted. What pain did his family go through from this.

So you actually think he purposely hung around to get more abuse with the thought of getting compensation?

CSF

niallo27 wrote: »

Yes he seemed more interested in compensation than the Chelsea fans getting convicted. What pain did his family go through from this.

If your child was humiliated on national TV in front of the whole world on the Internet, are you telling me that wouldn't hurt you? Come on mate, think before you post for f*cks sake

niallo27

CSF wrote: »

If your child was humiliated on national TV in front of the whole world on the Internet, are you telling me that wouldn't hurt you? Come on mate, think before you post for f*cks sake

Yes I would want the ****ers prosecuted and jail time if possible not go on TV and look for money.

niallo27

adox wrote: »

So you actually think he purposely hung around to get more abuse with the thought of getting compensation?

Perhaps a bit far fetched. I just hate this give me money I was victimised society we live in.

DARK-KNIGHT

niallo27 wrote: »

Yes I would want the ****ers prosecuted and jail time if possible not go on TV and look for money.

the victim and his family would be entitled to damages though and the most likely remedy would be a cash payout imo

how can you slate them for wanting compensation remember they are VICTIMS not the other way around

CSF

niallo27 wrote: »

Yes I would want the ****ers prosecuted and jail time if possible not go on TV and look for money.

But you just asked what pain his family went through from this

DARK-KNIGHT

niallo27 wrote: »

Perhaps a bit far fetched. I just hate this give me money I was victimised society we live in.

if that happened me i would want to be compensated......