The Vladimir Putin appreciation thread.

Elmer Blooker

Gatling wrote: »

He did help to create them after all

I doubt if even you believe that.

Gatling

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

I doubt if even you believe that.

Absolutely I do

diomed

Things happen with Putin in charge. Bad things.

InTheTrees

fran17 wrote: »

No sorry that's not what this thread was either titled or about.

I always assumed the thread title was sarcastic...

:cool:

fran17

B_Wayne wrote: »

Plenty of factual statements throughout my posts but you've ignored them. This all relates to the topic at hand but instead you've posted repeated outrage without ever actually addressing the points. I've posted links to human rights group's concern about Russia but still nothing. It would appear you're either completely ignorant or just incapable of refuting a few points.......

Yes plenty of google facts,conspiracy and hearsay Bruce and thanks for regurgitating them yet again.Do you have a news letter I may subscribe to :pac:

InTheTrees

fran17 wrote: »

This guy Nemtsov was no longer a big fish in any sense of the word and for Putin to have any involvement in it would seem futile at best.

He was due to address an anti putin rally tomorrow.

How big a fish would he have to be to warrant putins attention?

Jimmy Garlic

Gatling wrote: »

He did help to create them after all

Did he set up a training camp for them in Jordan? No that was the US. Where do you think the so called free Syrian army disappeared to? Defected to Isis once they were armed and trained.

The Medieval kingdom of Saudi Arabia and their fiefdoms (the well from which Isis's twisted ideology is drawn from) , the US, France, the UK, and Israel are the main creators of Isis. Why the hell would Putin help create them when he has an alliance with Syria and a naval base there in Tartus?

Suggesting that Putin helped create Isis, when Russia would have absolutely nothing to gain from the creation of Isis, is asinine.

InTheTrees

fran17 wrote: »

Yes plenty of google facts,conspiracy and hearsay

Whats a "google fact"?

Even your beloved Russia Today can be googled.

B_Wayne

fran17 wrote: »

Yes plenty of google facts,conspiracy and hearsay Bruce and thanks for regurgitating them yet again.Do you have a news letter I may subscribe to :pac:

The human rights violations are facts. The journalist deaths are facts. The political prisoners are facts. I included human rights groups, journalistic groups dedicated to journalists being killed but absolutely nothing is of worth to you.So Fran, will leave you to your bubble but it would appear that you have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about..... But let's be realistic Fran, there's one reason you like Putin and that's because of his attitude towards gay people.

Jimmy Garlic

InTheTrees wrote: »

He was due to address an anti putin rally tomorrow.

How big a fish would he have to be to warrant putins attention?

Looks like someone wanted a martyr to me. Shooting someone a stones throw from Red Square with the Kremlin as a backdrop. What does Putin gain from such an act?

Gatling

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Did he set up a training camp for them in Jordan? No that was the US. Where do you think the so called free Syrian army disappeared to? Defected to Isis once they were armed .

No didn't happen

Shurimgreat

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Did he set up a training camp for them in Jordan? No

And neither did the Americans. There are many different opposition groups in Syria with many different ideologies ranging from ISIS who are made up mainly of foreign jihadists right through to the largely secular FSA which was set up by defected Army officers. This latter group have been trained by the Americans.

I know this concept might be a little difficult for someone like you who sees the entire opposition as a monolith, and foaming at the mouth beheaders.

The regular American trained FSA have actually been fighting against ISIS in Kobane and Aleppo, not that you care.

Shurimgreat

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Looks like someone wanted a martyr to me. Shooting someone a stones throw from Red Square with the Kremlin as a backdrop. What does Putin gain from such an act?

Is that really a question?

If it is, the very public silencing of a vocal critic in the middle of Moscow. Can you send a clearer sympbolic message than that? If they can get you there, they can get you anywhere and no-one is safe.

ch750536

The single biggest indicator for me that Putin had nothing to do with this is that Putin is no Mugabe. He is very intelligent, an excellent strategist and one of the best political poker players the world has seen.

The only person who loses by the assassination, no matter what the follow up is Putin. He knows that. His opposer's know that.

It's such a dumb move that I just don't believe he would do it. He's more intelligent than that.

Smiles35

Jack Ruby is my choice. Top Man.

fran17

InTheTrees wrote: »

He was due to address an anti putin rally tomorrow.

How big a fish would he have to be to warrant putins attention?

Ah well you have to consider that the last anti government rally in Russia contained no more than a couple of hundred people and it was organised by a convicted criminal and fraudster,Alexei Navalny.
However it does prove that democracy and freedom of protest in Russia,like in all democracies,is permitted.

InTheTrees

fran17 wrote: »

However it does prove that democracy and freedom of protest in Russia,like in all democracies,is permitted.

You're right.

The fact that opposition politicians are being assassinated in the street really shows what great freedom there is in Russia because the opposition politicians weren't in jail, they are able to wander around free as can be!

B_Wayne

fran17 wrote: »

Ah well you have to consider that the last anti government rally in Russia contained no more than a couple of hundred people and it was organised by a convicted criminal and fraudster,Alexei Navalny.
However it does prove that democracy and freedom of protest in Russia,like in all democracies,is permitted.

Pride rallies result in public beatings and jailings of those in march. But you'll classify that as propaganda, so all good and dandy, eh?

Also, we've got the fact that the dead man and his family voiced concern that being so outwardly anti Putin would get him killed.... Also, why not address all the human rights groups concerns about Russia? It should surely be easy given your immense expertise.

Elmer Blooker

The last Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev, quoted by Interfax, also said the killing could have been a provocation, aimed at "destabilizing the situation in the country, at heightening confrontation" with the West.

I would agree with this, and Gorbachev is certainly no big fan of Putin.

Smiles35

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

I would agree with this, and Gorbachev is certainly no big fan of Putin.

It would be a lone gunman then because that's a special kind on lunatic. imo

fran17

B_Wayne wrote: »

Pride rallies result in public beatings and jailings of those in march. But you'll classify that as propaganda, so all good and dandy, eh?

Also, we've got the fact that the dead man and his family voiced concern that being so outwardly anti Putin would get him killed.... Also, why not address all the human rights groups concerns about Russia? It should surely be easy given your immense expertise.

Bruce,Why do you constantly wish to assign complete credit for the lgbt propaganda law to President Putin.This law was enacted because it passed through the duma by 436 votes in favour and 0 against.Therefor the president signed it into law.The law was enacted to prevent a minor from being subjected to any information of a sexual nature which undermines the place of traditional family values.I think most straight thinking parents could relate to that.
Do you accept that many regions of the world still believe in traditional family values and wish to preserve them?
There is a thriving gay community in Moscow and St.Petersburg,which host festivals yearly and contain many gay pubs and clubs. Russia decriminalised homosexuality in 1993 just as Ireland did.Since then Russia has allowed for transsexual people to legally change there gender in 1997,something Ireland has of yet not done.
Do you commend Russia for this action?

TerrorFirmer

fran17 wrote: »

Bruce,Why do you constantly wish to assign complete credit for the lgbt propaganda law to President Putin.This law was enacted because it passed through the duma by 436 votes in favour and 0 against.Therefor the president signed it into law.The law was enacted to prevent a minor from being subjected to any information of a sexual nature which undermines the place of traditional family values.I think most straight thinking parents could relate to that.
Do you accept that many regions of the world still believe in traditional family values and wish to preserve them?
There is a thriving gay community in Moscow and St.Petersburg,which host festivals yearly and contain many gay pubs and clubs. Russia decriminalised homosexuality in 1993 just as Ireland did.Since then Russia has allowed for transsexual people to legally change there gender in 1997,something Ireland has of yet not done.
Do you commend Russia for this action?

Are you for real?

Amnesty International say that law in Russia regarding LGBT people are an affront to basic human rights.

I'd be interested to hear your position on this.

Without any of your bull**** whataboutery too, please.

wandatowell

Vlad is an old school operator.

A dinosaur in a modern age. Which is why he's extremely good at what he does. Modern day world leaders don't work from the same playbook as him. They can't figure him out.

InTheTrees

Noblong wrote: »

It would be a lone gunman then because that's a special kind on lunatic. imo

There were four gunmen apparently.

InTheTrees

fran17 wrote: »

Do you commend Russia for this action?

Nope. Because you're just making stuff up aren't you?

Why would I trust your uncorroborated pronouncements over Amnesty International???

??

cnocbui

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Looks like someone wanted a martyr to me. Shooting someone a stones throw from Red Square with the Kremlin as a backdrop. What does Putin gain from such an act?

Do you seriously think Putin has any problem with creating martyrs? If he did, the list of them wouldn't be so very long:

http://www.bruceonpolitics.com/2015/03/01/putins-killed-opponents/

fran17

InTheTrees wrote: »

Nope. Because you're just making stuff up aren't you?

Why would I trust your uncorroborated pronouncements over Amnesty International???

??

In 1997 Russia gave legality to transgender people regarding recognising there gender change.Thats a fact.
Don't get me wrong now,the world is a very unjust place and Amnesty highlight many injustices in all countries.However they are very very well paid for there work and receive donations from,amoung others,the U.K,the European union and the U.S state department...

JacquesDeLad

ch750536 wrote: »

It's such a dumb move that I just don't believe he would do it. He's more intelligent than that.

Is he more intelligent than that?

18 months ago he was trying to create a Eurasian trading block to rival the EU.

I don't need to list how badly things have turned around since then but to go from that grand plan to where Russia is now in 18 months is not the work of a great strategist.

Shooting a politician in the street is entirely in keeping with the kind of badly thought out reactionary aggression that has Russia in the mess it's in now.

TerrorFirmer

fran17 wrote: »

In 1997 Russia gave legality to transgender people regarding recognising there gender change.Thats a fact.
Don't get me wrong now,the world is a very unjust place and Amnesty highlight many injustices in all countries.However they are very very well paid for there work and receive donations from,amoung others,the U.K,the European union and the U.S state department...

The North Korean constitution also guarantees freedom of expression.

That's a fact, as you put it.

Facts mean nothing, reality means everything.

The reality is that Russia is a a brutally homophobic country that actively persecutes LGBT people.

Posting random and meaningless pieces of law does not change that and is an astounding poor line of counter-argument.

InTheTrees

fran17 wrote: »

The law was enacted to prevent a minor from being subjected to any information of a sexual nature which undermines the place of traditional family values.I think most straight thinking parents could relate to that.

You do do you?

Your in favour of laws restricting free speech and you think most straight "thinking" parents agree with you??

??