The Vladimir Putin appreciation thread.

InTheTrees

fran17 wrote: »

Don't get me wrong now,the world is a very unjust place and Amnesty highlight many injustices in all countries.However they are very very well paid for there work and receive donations from,amoung others,the U.K,the European union and the U.S state department...

So now Amnesty International is just a tool of the west bullying your beloved Putin?

??

Your getting comic now.

B_Wayne

fran17 wrote: »

In 1997 Russia gave legality to transgender people regarding recognising there gender change.Thats a fact.
Don't get me wrong now,the world is a very unjust place and Amnesty highlight many injustices in all countries.However they are very very well paid for there work and receive donations from,amoung others,the U.K,the European union and the U.S state department...

In 2014,Russia banned transgender taxi drivers. Fran, I will never commend a nation that chooses to mistreat minorities. Most right thinking people don't hence the denunciation from all human rights groups. But you're an expert sure, you're not being targeted for honey traps by Russian groups that face feck all consequences for their actions. A leader that has labelled gay people as paedophiles.You are a supporter of hate,that is what you are.

Also, you're sounding a bit conspiratorial about human rights groups, why the double standard for your far more bizarre theories?

fran17

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

The North Korean constitution also guarantees freedom of expression.

That's a fact, as you put it.

Facts mean nothing, reality means everything.

The reality is that Russia is a a brutally homophobic country that actively persecutes LGBT people.

Posting random and meaningless pieces of law does not change that and is an astounding poor line of counter-argument.

Ok folks just remember from now on not to include facts in your arguments,they mean nothing.From now on proof will be determined by opinions.

Did you really just say that?

InTheTrees

fran17 wrote: »

Ok folks just remember from now on not to include facts in your arguments,they mean nothing.From now on proof will be determined by opinions.

With no corroboration or links or evidence of any kind you were just telling us about how straight thinking parents agree that discriminatory laws against gay people are a good thing...

fran17

InTheTrees wrote: »

So now Amnesty International is just a tool of the west bullying your beloved Putin?

??

Your getting comic now.

He who pays the piper calls the tune....

Of course Russia was one of the first countries to offer the USA relief aid in the wake of hurricane Katrina.Would you commend that donation?

fran17

InTheTrees wrote: »

With no corroboration or links or evidence of any kind you were just telling us about how straight thinking parents agree that discriminatory laws against gay people are a good thing...

No if you reassess the context of this you will find that it was relating to the 1997 act which allowed for transgender people to legally change there gender.This was the fact deemed to be meaning nothing.

B_Wayne

fran17 wrote: »

He who pays the piper calls the tune....

Of course Russia was one of the first countries to offer the USA relief aid in the wake of hurricane Katrina.Would you commend that donation?

Fran, you do realise you've proposed the most off the wall of any conspiracy theory in this topic. Amnesty and other human rights are far more credible than any of your rather bigoted nonsense...

fran17

B_Wayne wrote: »

Fran, you do realise you've proposed the most off the wall of any conspiracy theory in this topic. Amnesty and other human rights are far more credible than any of your rather bigoted nonsense...

Ah now Bruce,even you are not naive enough to believe that a government will donate to a human rights think tank/watchdog without expecting to gain influence or persuasion credits in return.your not right?
As for your transsexual taxi driver argument,well considering that Russia has approx.30,000 road deaths per year with a quarter of a million injured it makes logical sense to the unbiased.Russia has introduced legislation which does not permit people with physical and mental disabilities to hold a public driving license.They have used the world health organisation as there reference in this matter.GID is listed as a disorder by the WHO so is included in the legislation.This legislation also precludes visual impairment,paedophilia and many other disorders from holding such licences.

B_Wayne

fran17 wrote: »

Ah now Bruce,even you are not naive enough to believe that a government will donate to a human rights think tank/watchdog without expecting to gain influence or persuasion credits in return.your not right?
As for your transsexual taxi driver argument,well considering that Russia has approx.30,000 road deaths per year with a quarter of a million injured it makes logical sense to the unbiased.Russia has introduced legislation which does not permit people with physical and mental disabilities to hold a public driving license.They have used the world health organisation as there reference in this matter.GID is listed as a disorder by the WHO so is included in the legislation.This legislation also precludes visual impairment,paedophilia and many other disorders from holding such licences.

You've ranted about proof, come on and give me some proof that being transgender impairs one's ability to drive. You're not going to find anything about increased likelihood of accidents. There's not any, it's bigotry dictating what is and isn't okay. You are so full of rubbish but can never back it up. It would be hilarious if your views weren't so awful.

You think gay people being openly in a relationship is propaganda, this highlights one thing. It's not propaganda, it's that you don't like people being in relationships with people of the same sex. It's not a justified law and the vast majority with some basic non biblical common sense recognise this. You hate acceptance, what has happened in terms of human rights for many in Russia is Jim Crowe era styles of law.

The fact that you discount human rights groups means you will discount everything. For example there was a journalist on Marian Finucane this morning explaining his experience in Russia. A group that basically inform journalists which he had gone with were labelled as foreign agents of the United States. They weren't but it's the paranoia that is bred in modern Russia. It's not a particularly democratic state and you'd have to be deluded to think it is.

I assume the 'kill the gay' law in Uganda was also merely western propaganda. Now, read Russia Today for the remainder of your day cause you appear to be as exposed to propaganda as much as any fox news viewer.

jobbridge4life

fran17 wrote: »

In 1997 Russia gave legality to transgender people regarding recognising there gender change.Thats a fact.

Its also a fact that Iran preforms the second highest number of gender reassignments in the world, whilst simultaneously outlawing, persecuting, raping, torturing and executing homosexuals.

fran17

B_Wayne wrote: »

You've ranted about proof, come on and give me some proof that being transgender impairs one's ability to drive. You're not going to find anything about increased likelihood of accidents. There's not any, it's bigotry dictating what is and isn't okay. You are so full of rubbish but can never back it up. It would be hilarious if your views weren't so awful.

You think gay people being openly in a relationship is propaganda, this highlights one thing. It's not propaganda, it's that you don't like people being in relationships with people of the same sex. It's not a justified law and the vast majority with some basic non biblical common sense recognise this. You hate acceptance, what has happened in terms of human rights for many in Russia is Jim Crowe era styles of law.

The fact that you discount human rights groups means you will discount everything. For example there was a journalist on Marian Finucane this morning explaining his experience in Russia. A group that basically inform journalists which he had gone with were labelled as foreign agents of the United States. They weren't but it's the paranoia that is bred in modern Russia. It's not a particularly democratic state and you'd have to be deluded to think it is.

I assume the 'kill the gay' law in Uganda was also merely western propaganda. Now, read Russia Today for the remainder of your day cause you appear to be as exposed to propaganda as much as any fox news viewer.

I suggest you petition the WHO then Bruce,its there guidelines that the Russians were referencing from regarding disorder identification.
Its common knowledge to most that suffers of GID show hugely elevated levels of stress,anxiety,depression and suicidal thoughts.Its also common knowledge that suffers are also much more likely to abuse alcohol and drugs.None of these factors would be high on the list when recruiting a person to operate a public vehicle.Thats your proof,undeniable proof based on fact.

No I don't think that gay people in relationships is propaganda,either does Russia.The law is to protect minors from being influenced or corrupted by sexual material.Fact.

No I don't discount human rights groups and it does not mean I will discount everything.Read that statement back to yourself slowly Bruce,it makes no sense whatsoever.Some 100,000 people rallied today in Russia to protest democratically against the murder of Nemtsov,but you probably think it was arranged by Putin to give the impression of democracy right :rolleyes:

No I don't assume that the "kill the gay" law in Uganda is also merely western propaganda.Honestly I don't know anything about that and I have no wish to inform myself on it either.

Can you not see a trend here Bruce regarding your debating technique?
I have asked you in the past on a number of occasions not to assume what other contributors are thinking as the basis for your outrage in this forum.The fact is that up until now you have been 100% wrong every time without fail.You create an imaginary point of view in your mind and then cry outrage.

fran17

jobbridge4life wrote: »

Its also a fact that Iran preforms the second highest number of gender reassignments in the world, whilst simultaneously outlawing, persecuting, raping, torturing and executing homosexuals.

Sure start an Iranian thread then

JacquesDeLad

fran17 wrote: »

In 1997 Russia gave legality to transgender people regarding recognising there gender change.Thats a fact.

This is a Vladimir Putin appreciation thread. I think this comment belongs in the Boris Yeltsin appreciation thread.

Egginacup

B_Wayne wrote: »

In 2014,Russia banned transgender taxi drivers. Fran, I will never commend a nation that chooses to mistreat minorities. Most right thinking people don't hence the denunciation from all human rights groups. But you're an expert sure, you're not being targeted for honey traps by Russian groups that face feck all consequences for their actions. A leader that has labelled gay people as paedophiles.You are a supporter of hate,that is what you are.

Also, you're sounding a bit conspiratorial about human rights groups, why the double standard for your far more bizarre theories?

Russia didn't ban transgender taxi drivers. And if you have a link to that legislation then I would like to provide it, please.

B_Wayne

fran17 wrote: »

Can you not see a trend here Bruce regarding your debating technique?
I have asked you in the past on a number of occasions not to assume what other contributors are thinking as the basis for your outrage in this forum.The fact is that up until now you have been 100% wrong every time without fail.You create an imaginary point of view in your mind and then cry outrage.

Fran, I imagine most people feel the exact same way as me about your postings. You have one driving force. You wish to limit the rights of one group. You have previously related paedophilia and that group. You have expressed highly ridiculous views on it. So when you run in to praise protecting the 'traditional family' that shows up as masking one's homophobia.

But nonetheless the law was homophobic. The fact is,gay people have been caught in honey traps and the government does nothing. Gay people are something to be hidden and treated as an illness in modern Russia. Vladimir Putin warned about gay people being kept away from children, do you view also view gay people as a danger to children? Your previous postings would indicate you do. If you can't see how the situation is one where hatred festers as backed up by international reports. Yep, it does seem like no facts are of any interest to you.

I asked you for references to backup banning transgender drivers. Actual research that shows it makes any sense, there isn't any hence you not providing any. I'm a straight male. I suffer from depression and anxiety. Like most Irish people I have abused alcohol at one point or another(to a minor degree but most have). But I could happily drive a car in Russia. It would be ridiculous if I couldn't. Russia as is, has one of the highest alcohol consumption rates in the globe. So basically nobody should be allowed near a car by your logic..... The only thing all these recent reform in law does is ostracise the LGBT community.

Egginacup wrote: »

Russia didn't ban transgender taxi drivers. And if you have a link to that legislation then I would like to provide it, please.

Correction it's all driving. All praise Putin, eh?
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/09/transgender-people-russia-banned-driving-legal-amendment-dmitry-medvedev

Oh Russia Today may be a more legitimate resource for you.
http://rt.com/news/221235-russia-driving-ban-transgender/

AndonHandon

B_Wayne wrote: »

Fran, I imagine most people feel the exact same way as me about your postings. You have one driving force. You wish to limit the rights of one group. You have previously related paedophilia and that group. You have expressed highly ridiculous views on it. So when you run in to praise protecting the 'traditional family' that shows up as masking one's homophobia.

But nonetheless the law was homophobic. The fact is,gay people have been caught in honey traps and the government does nothing. Gay people are something to be hidden and treated as an illness in modern Russia. Vladimir Putin warned about gay people being kept away from children, do you view also view gay people as a danger to children? Your previous postings would indicate you do. If you can't see how the situation is one where hatred festers as backed up by international reports. Yep, it does seem like no facts are of any interest to you.

I asked you for references to backup banning transgender drivers. Actual research that shows it makes any sense, there isn't any hence you not providing any. I'm a straight male. I suffer from depression and anxiety. Like most Irish people I have abused alcohol at one point or another(to a minor degree but most have). But I could happily drive a car in Russia. It would be ridiculous if I couldn't. Russia as is, has one of the highest alcohol consumption rates in the globe. So basically nobody should be allowed near a car by your logic..... The only thing all these recent reform in law does is ostracise the LGBT community.



Correction it's all driving. All praise Putin, eh?
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/09/transgender-people-russia-banned-driving-legal-amendment-dmitry-medvedev

Oh Russia Today may be a more legitimate resource for you.
http://rt.com/news/221235-russia-driving-ban-transgender/

EggOnFace is perhaps more apt.

Egginacup

B_Wayne wrote: »

Fran, I imagine most people feel the exact same way as me about your postings. You have one driving force. You wish to limit the rights of one group. You have previously related paedophilia and that group. You have expressed highly ridiculous views on it. So when you run in to praise protecting the 'traditional family' that shows up as masking one's homophobia.

But nonetheless the law was homophobic. The fact is,gay people have been caught in honey traps and the government does nothing. Gay people are something to be hidden and treated as an illness in modern Russia. Vladimir Putin warned about gay people being kept away from children, do you view also view gay people as a danger to children? Your previous postings would indicate you do. If you can't see how the situation is one where hatred festers as backed up by international reports. Yep, it does seem like no facts are of any interest to you.

I asked you for references to backup banning transgender drivers. Actual research that shows it makes any sense, there isn't any hence you not providing any. I'm a straight male. I suffer from depression and anxiety. Like most Irish people I have abused alcohol at one point or another(to a minor degree but most have). But I could happily drive a car in Russia. It would be ridiculous if I couldn't. Russia as is, has one of the highest alcohol consumption rates in the globe. So basically nobody should be allowed near a car by your logic..... The only thing all these recent reform in law does is ostracise the LGBT community.



Correction it's all driving. All praise Putin, eh?
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/09/transgender-people-russia-banned-driving-legal-amendment-dmitry-medvedev

Oh Russia Today may be a more legitimate resource for you.
http://rt.com/news/221235-russia-driving-ban-transgender/

Where in Russian legistlation does it state that transgenders are banned from driving, whether it be a taxi or any other kind of vehicle.

I see a bunch of screaming headlines from the Times, IBTIMES, various blogs and multiple sites but I don't see any link or connection to Russian legislation specifically banning transexuals from driving.
I would imagine that it would be quite easy to furnish this legal stipulation. If it's so easy to state that Russia has banned transexuals from driving then with the information that you have it must be very easy to prove it.
I would like to know if anyone has any information regarding laws passed that prevent, in Russia, transexuals from driving a car.

If anyone has this information then I would be most grateful.

Egginacup

AndonHandon wrote: »

EggOnFace is perhaps more apt.

Andon,

Do you have any information that specifies transgenders being banned from driving in Russia?
I've looked and can't find a shred.
I'll lick the egg off my face if you can show me the aforementioned legislation.

InTheTrees

Egginacup wrote: »

Andon,

Do you have any information that specifies transgenders being banned from driving in Russia?
I've looked and can't find a shred.
I'll lick the egg off my face if you can show me the aforementioned legislation.

From Rt.com (which is a source you seem to respect and trust):

"Russia’s new road safety rules have expanded the list of medical conditions preventing people from get a driving license to include sexual disorders, which covers all transgender people, bi-gender, asexuals, transvestites, cross dressers and others.
Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev signed a decree on December 29 last year, which came into effect on January 6, 2015."

http://rt.com/news/221235-russia-driving-ban-transgender/

B_Wayne

Egginacup wrote: »

Where in Russian legistlation does it state that transgenders are banned from driving, whether it be a taxi or any other kind of vehicle.

I see a bunch of screaming headlines from the Times, IBTIMES, various blogs and multiple sites but I don't see any link or connection to Russian legislation specifically banning transexuals from driving.
I would imagine that it would be quite easy to furnish this legal stipulation. If it's so easy to state that Russia has banned transexuals from driving then with the information that you have it must be very easy to prove it.
I would like to know if anyone has any information regarding laws passed that prevent, in Russia, transexuals from driving a car.

If anyone has this information then I would be most grateful.

There's no full translation of document and it won't go through google translate. However the cited document is this. You'll find f64 which is referenced in the document is gender identity disorder.
http://www.rg.ru/pril/article/106/84/30/voditeli-medicina.pdf

Cross reference all the listed conditions that can apparently impede upon one's driving with this. Fethism, voyeurism etc also on it for some bizarre reason. In fact, don't think there's any established reason for any of the above to prevent from driving.
http://apps.who.int/classifications/apps/icd/icd10online2003/fr-icd.htm?gf60.htm+

The general summation appears to be that list of personality disorders are considered potentially legitimate reasons to refuse a license. Neither Russian or Western publications disagree on this. Anyway, everyone is perfectly aware that RT is under the thumb of Putin, why would they lie?

fran17

Now we have gone full circle I see.First I get accused of getting my sources from RT and now RT is the source used to dispute me.Surreal...

B_Wayne

fran17 wrote: »

Now we have gone full circle I see.First I get accused of getting my sources from RT and now RT is the source used to dispute me.Surreal...

I was merely fulfilling the expected criteria for news for Egg. Still don't view it as credible, it's a mouthpiece for the Kremlin(well known). Just occasionally mirrors rest of news sites but more an anomaly.

JacquesDeLad

Hypothetically, if there was a Lithuanian, Polish or German uprisng in Kaliningrad would that justify NATO sending in troops to oversee an independence referendum?

Historically it's part of Europe, never had ties to Russia pre-1945, and Putin has set a precedent.

This is the can of worms recent actions by Russia have opened.

AndonHandon

Egginacup wrote: »

Andon,

Do you have any information that specifies transgenders being banned from driving in Russia?
I've looked and can't find a shred.
I'll lick the egg off my face if you can show me the aforementioned legislation.

Apologies, I'm not clued in to this debate, I just thought it was a cheap laugh! I'm not with you or against you just to be clear.

/waddles out of thread

BD45

At least he's a badass. Our president is a poetry writing manlet!

JacquesDeLad

BD45 wrote: »

At least he's a badass. Our president is a poetry writing manlet!

I've never heard Mícheal referred to as a badass before but it's better than leprechaun.

PopePalpatine

Remember those lesbians who took a photo of themselves kissing while near a leading homophobic Russian politician? They've just been raided.

Elmer Blooker

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Remember those lesbians who took a photo of themselves kissing while near a leading homophobic Russian politician?

Well at least they're getting the attention they crave.

Interesting the way LGBT rights are only an issue in Russia and are conveniently ignored in countries that are our "allies"
I suppose a lot of business is done in oil and the obscene amount of weapons they buy from the west might have something to do with it?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2449051/Gulf-states-introduce-medical-testing-travellers-detect-gay-people-stop-entering-country.html

B_Wayne

I think plenty, myself included are deeply concerned about treatment of lgbt (and other minorities) in Middle East etc. Elmer, you're jumping to a conclusion that is untrue. Plus human rights groups regularly criticise the regions. So your statement is rather untrue. Totally agree that states themselves vary to an awful extent in terms of criticisms however doesn't extend to citizens etc.

PopePalpatine

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Well at least they're getting the attention they crave.

Interesting the way LGBT rights are only an issue in Russia and are conveniently ignored in countries that are our "allies"
I suppose a lot of business is done in oil and the obscene amount of weapons they buy from the west might have something to do with it?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2449051/Gulf-states-introduce-medical-testing-travellers-detect-gay-people-stop-entering-country.html

Damn them noisy gays, trying to ruin the Russiche Herrenvolk! I'm just as disgusted by institutional homophobia in the likes of the UAE, Saudi Arabia and a whole host of Middle Eastern countries.