The Vladimir Putin appreciation thread.

robindch

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

A quote from John Pilger probably now best described as an ex-journalist [...]

I've seen little from John Pilger's output over the last twenty years which suggests he's familiar any more with the professional responsibilities of an honest journalist.

"Bizarre, naive, paranoid wingnut" describes him better.

Egginacup

robindch wrote: »

I've seen little from John Pilger's output over the last twenty years which suggests he's familiar any more with the professional responsibilities of an honest journalist.

"Bizarre, naive, paranoid wingnut" describes him better.

Could you provide an example of his lies/dishonesty?

Egginacup

InTheTrees wrote: »

Because Putin controls Russian media.

It doesn't matter who controls the media in Russia. Russian people are smart enough to know what's propaganda and what's reality. Americans on the contrary are not so smart. When Communist officials visited the US in the 80's I think it was (can't remember if they were Russian or Chinese) they were gobsmacked at how American citizens were so controlled by media propaganda and they lamented that they could only dream of having such control over Russian/Chinese citizens.
Likewise I read where Russian citizens during the Soviet years were asked about the constant droning lies on the radio and they laconically replied that they knew it was all propaganda and never paid any attention to it but got their news from other sources.

Likewise today, Russians are smart enough to see or hear something on the tv/radio and follow up on the internet etc.
Try that in the US. Tell Joe 6pack some cock and bull like Obama is a Muslim Arab born in Kenya or Saddam Hussein attacked the US on 9/11 and he'll believe it till the day he dies without bothering to get off his lardass to verify it, let alon question it.

robindch

Egginacup wrote: »

Could you provide an example of his lies/dishonesty?

For example, the bit quoted above where he says that "the fascist led coup in Ukraine was the work of the United States, aided by Germany and Nato."

Which is more than a little ironic, given that Pilger's text which contained this quote complains about "distortion", "deception" and "truth is being turned upside down and inside out".

ohnonotgmail

Egginacup wrote: »

It doesn't matter who controls the media in Russia. Russian people are smart enough to know what's propaganda and what's reality. Americans on the contrary are not so smart. When Communist officials visited the US in the 80's I think it was (can't remember if they were Russian or Chinese) they were gobsmacked at how American citizens were so controlled by media propaganda and they lamented that they could only dream of having such control over Russian/Chinese citizens.
Likewise I read where Russian citizens during the Soviet years were asked about the constant droning lies on the radio and they laconically replied that they knew it was all propaganda and never paid any attention to it but got their news from other sources.

Likewise today, Russians are smart enough to see or hear something on the tv/radio and follow up on the internet etc.
Try that in the US. Tell Joe 6pack some cock and bull like Obama is a Muslim Arab born in Kenya or Saddam Hussein attacked the US on 9/11 and he'll believe it till the day he dies without bothering to get off his lardass to verify it, let alon question it.

so, Americans dumb, russians smart? nevozmozhno otritsat' pravdu tovarishcha

robindch

Egginacup wrote: »

It doesn't matter who controls the media in Russia. Russian people are smart enough to know what's propaganda and what's reality.

Speaking as somebody with extensive Russian connections, a good knowledge of the country and a working knowledge of the language, let me assure you that the vast majority of Russian people today are living inside a bizarre, fictitious, paranoid world constructed by the Kremlin for the narrow purpose of ensuring Putin's popularity.

Your claim that this is not the case suggests that you have little experience or knowledge of propaganda and none at all about Russia.

robindch

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

nevozmozhno otritsat' pravdu tovarishcha

I bespolezno puitat'sya.

ohnonotgmail

robindch wrote: »

I bespolezno puitat'sya.

ya znayu

InTheTrees

Egginacup wrote: »

It doesn't matter who controls the media in Russia. Russian people are smart enough to know what's propaganda and what's reality. Americans on the contrary are not so smart.

Americans?? What have Americans got to do with it?

Putin controls state media, you don't argue against that. But your saying putins control of state media is meaningless because everyone is on to him?

And you throw in the fact that Americans are stupid?

Struggling arennt you?

arayess

robindch wrote: »

Speaking as somebody with extensive Russian connections, a good knowledge of the country and a working knowledge of the language, let me assure you that the vast majority of Russian people today are living inside a bizarre, fictitious, paranoid world constructed by the Kremlin for the narrow purpose of ensuring Putin's popularity.

Your claim that this is not the case suggests that you have little experience or knowledge of propaganda and none at all about Russia.

so you are claiming Putin popularity is constructed?
and that you and your russian connections (with superior intellect , of course) see through this charade whilst the average Russian is brainwashed.

Putin saved Russia after the collapse of communism and the ****hole it became. He saved it from the clutches of IMF and the capitalist vultures from the west.
His methods mightn't be to the wests liking but who cares? He answers not to them but to his own.

robindch

InTheTrees wrote: »

Americans?? What have Americans got to do with it?

It's step one from the current Russian social-media playbook - when confronted with evidence of wrongdoing by the Kremlin, immediately muddy the waters by claiming that the USA (or NATO, Germany or evil Prince Hans from the film 'Frozen') did something worse.

Elmer Blooker

Putin saved Russia after the collapse of communism and the ****hole it became. He saved it from the clutches of IMF and the capitalist vultures from the west.

This is an outstanding article written 8 years ago almost to the day.
It obviously has nothing whatsoever to do with Ukraine so it can be dismissed as Russian propaganda.
It explains why Putin is a "threat" and why the US wants Putin ousted and replaced with a buffoon like Yeltsin. This bit was very prophetic, (don't forget, written 8 years ago!)

Expect the propaganda assault on Putin’s Russia to get more vociferous and the drumbeat to "do something" about the rising "threat" of Russia to get louder and more serious.

http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2007/04/25/the-legacy-of-boris-yeltsin/

robindch

arayess wrote: »

so you are claiming Putin popularity is constructed? and that you and your russian connections (with superior intellect , of course) see through this charade whilst the average Russian is brainwashed.

As you ask, yes and yes.

arayess wrote: »

Putin saved Russia after the collapse of communism and the ****hole it became. He saved it from the clutches of IMF and the capitalist vultures from the west.

Putin did not "save" Russia from the "clutches of the IMF". Instead, he took dictatorial control of the country almost immediately, helped on his way by a string of terror attacks on Russian soil - unexplained to this day but, according to the Kremlin narrative, allegedly (and helpfully) carried out by Chechen terrorists - necessitating a savage war that left thousands dead, Chechnya ravaged and in the control of a nutter.

Then, having acquired control, VVP consolidated power within the Kremlin by co-ordinating the control of political patronage and state assets and their enormous earning power, with the FSB and their links to organized crime. Political power remains there today.

arayess wrote: »

His methods mightn't be to the wests liking but who cares? He answers not to them but to his own.

VVP does not answer to Russian people. His principal aim in life now is the maintenance of his own political power and to a lesser extent, the disgusting political system he has created.

arayess

robindch wrote: »

.....

Lets disagree on that one so.

I've read enough on that period to know exactly that Putin did save russia.
A popular read and it's easily accessible in bookshops is "the shock doctrine" by Naomi Klein contains a chapter on this episode including interviews and quotes with the IMF (and world bank?? I think) guys sent in to russia.
Putin did indeed save russia. of that there can be no doubt.

robindch

arayess wrote: »

Putin did indeed save russia. of that there can be no doubt.

As I said above, following the deaths of thousands, Putin handed control of large segments of Russia to organized crime where it remains today. I don't immediately see how this could either excuse the criminal Russian execution of crappy IMF planning, or using the IMF as justification for criminal activity. And especially, I don't see how anybody with any knowledge of the country or what happened to it could call this "saving" a country, except in the strictly Gogolian, ironic, sense.

Neither do I have much of an idea why you're referring to Naomi Klein's silly book - though, I should say that I abandoned her juvenalia before she attempted to tackle Russia.

If you'd like to understand Russia a little better than you appear to, then I recommend Misha Glenny's excellent McMafia. Or indeed, just about anything by Anna Politkovskaya (murdered). Or for a little light reading, Peter Pomerantsev's Nothing Is True and Everything Is Possible.

Irish Praetorian

arayess wrote: »

so you are claiming Putin popularity is constructed?
and that you and your russian connections (with superior intellect , of course) see through this charade whilst the average Russian is brainwashed.

Putin saved Russia after the collapse of communism and the ****hole it became. He saved it from the clutches of IMF and the capitalist vultures from the west.
His methods mightn't be to the wests liking but who cares? He answers not to them but to his own.

A 'Strong Man' who brought stability to the chaos, chaos that of course must be the doings of foreigners and minorities, and all he asked was the right to rule without limits - what could possibly go wrong?

InTheTrees

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

It obviously has nothing whatsoever to do with Ukraine so it cannot be dismissed as Russian propaganda.]

Ha ha ha. So if putins cronies put out some information that has nothing to do with Ukraine then it cant possibly be propaganda?

Logic takes a holiday huh?

ohnonotgmail

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

A 'Strong Man' who brought stability to the chaos, chaos that of course must be the doings of foreigners and minorities, and all he asked was the right to rule without limits - what could possibly go wrong?

you might say a man of steel.

InTheTrees

arayess wrote: »

Putin did indeed save russia. of that there can be no doubt.

Putin is raping Russia and lining his own pockets in the grand tradition of right wing dictators, as history has shown us many times before.

The interesting part is what will happen when he dies. How is he arranging for succession?

robindch

InTheTrees wrote: »

The interesting part is what will happen when he dies. How is he arranging for succession?

Not so much when he dies, but when he exits the Kremlin - either by lethal or non-lethal palace coup or at the likely expiration of his current run in 2024. Well, we have it on his own authority that there'll be no palace coup as "Russia has no palaces". Indeed.

Apart from all the other obvious problems, one major issue with dictators is an orderly transfer of power when they do give up the ghost. And it's hard to see anybody stepping into Putin's smoking tapochki, now that most people with the plausible political power to do so are either cowed, exiled or dead.

arayess

robindch wrote: »

As I said above, following the deaths of thousands, Putin handed control of large segments of Russia to organized crime where it remains today. I don't immediately see how this could either excuse the criminal Russian execution of crappy IMF planning, or using the IMF as justification for criminal activity. And especially, I don't see how anybody with any knowledge of the country or what happened to it could call this "saving" a country, except in the strictly Gogolian, ironic, sense.

Neither do I have much of an idea why you're referring to Naomi Klein's silly book - though, I should say that I abandoned her juvenalia before she attempted to tackle Russia.

If you'd like to understand Russia a little better than you appear to, then I recommend Misha Glenny's excellent McMafia. Or indeed, just about anything by Anna Politkovskaya (murdered). Or for a little light reading, Peter Pomerantsev's Nothing Is True and Everything Is Possible.

ah yes - you didn't like the book so it's silly.
I get you now.

I referenced it cos it backed up my point on Putin saving russia from the IMF and all those bogey men .
I'd imagine she is very anti-putin given her guardian-style credentials which makes the point all the sweeter.

Ozymandius2011

When I go on the Russian forums over the years I see why Russians support him (despite in my opinion his being terrible). He inherited a collapsing economy and the secession of Chechnya and virtual rule by oligarchs. The late Boris Berezovsky arranged for Yeltsin to appoint him after Putin (as FSB head) got Yeltsin out of a spot of bother regarding a corruption investigation. A video appeared purporting to show the Chief Prosecutor Yuri Skuratov with prostitutes, leading to him resigning or being sacked. So Putin was trusted by Yeltsin and the oligarchs, who then appointed him Yeltsin's successor and PM. Little did they know they had signed their death warrant in terms of political influence (and possibly in some cases literally). So Russians believe Putin has gotten Russia off her knees, in the same way Germans felt that way about Hitler. The parallels with Hitler are not perfect but there are some, such as:

- "protective" annexations of territory.

- suppression of ethnic, religious and sexual minorities. Human Rights Watch has reported on the culture of disappearances, tortures and killings in the Caucasus, which is about terrorising the Muslim population so they won't rebel - or possibly to provoke them into doing so to allow Putin to play the security card. Likewise the anti-gay law and the arguments that gays threaten the birth rate echo those of Goebbels and Himmler. Gays are demonised in the state media, causing many to flee to the West. Last year the UN said Russia was the second largest source country of asylum claims. One term doing the rounds is "gay jihad", and attempts are made to link gays to Islamic terror as part of the great conspiracy against the Dear Leader.

- The economy largely remains in the hands of oligarchs (e.g. Krupp in Nazi Germany) provided they don't rock the boat and assist the regime in its totalitarian and expansionist goals. Khodorksovsky and Gusinsky discovered to their cost the price of dissent. Meanwhile other oligarchs like Alisher Usmanov and Gennady Timchenko have prospered. So those on the Left who think he's some kind of Socialist for taking on the oligarchs are misinformed.

robindch

arayess wrote: »

ah yes - you didn't like the book so it's silly.
I get you now.

No, you don't get me at all -- I don't like Klein's silly book because it's silly.

I note you've avoided replying to anything more substantial than my opinion of a second-rate book.

PopePalpatine

robindch wrote: »

No, you don't get me at all -- I don't like Klein's silly book because it's silly.

I note you've avoided replying to anything more substantial than my opinion of a second-rate book.

Just out of curiosity, what made it "silly" in your view?

Egginacup

InTheTrees wrote: »

He does look like a rat. Or a weasel. Its the eyes that are too close together.

Come on now, Vlad looks great and at 62 would still slam you to the mat with a subtle judo move. His eyes aren't as close together as that gimp, Dubya.

The_Valeyard

Egginacup wrote: »

Come on now, Vlad looks great and at 62 would still slam you to the mat with a subtle judo move. His eyes aren't as close together as that gimp, Dubya.

Jaysus , get over it, Dubya has been gone for years, yes it was 8 years of comic-humour gold, but move on lad.....wait for his bro to run.

Egginacup

InTheTrees wrote: »

Putin is raping Russia and lining his own pockets in the grand tradition of right wing dictators, as history has shown us many times before.

The interesting part is what will happen when he dies. How is he arranging for succession?

Can you back up your accusation that Putin is robbing the Russan treasury? Source?

BoJack Horseman

Egginacup wrote: »

Can you back up your accusation that Putin is robbing the Russan treasury? Source?

You don't have to literally extricate cash from the government treasury to be one of the wealthiest men on the planet.

Replacing one set of oligarch with vladi' set of oligarchs seems like a zero sum game.

Egginacup

robindch wrote: »

Speaking as somebody with extensive Russian connections, a good knowledge of the country and a working knowledge of the language, let me assure you that the vast majority of Russian people today are living inside a bizarre, fictitious, paranoid world constructed by the Kremlin for the narrow purpose of ensuring Putin's popularity.

Your claim that this is not the case suggests that you have little experience or knowledge of propaganda and none at all about Russia.

If you knew a fraction about Russia that you claim to you would not even be trying to sell the dummy currently on your trestle table. Russian power is authoritatve. The cohesion of the system derives from whom makes it work. You, mistakenly, have confused such a concept with "authoritarian", which is a catch-all phrase for the ignorant who think they understand it.

InTheTrees

Egginacup wrote: »

Come on now, Vlad looks great and at 62 would still slam you to the mat with a subtle judo move.

Funny but I doubt it very much.

Putin's demonstrations of machismo are on a par with Kim jong ill (who was the worlds greatest golfer, he always gets a hole in one.). It snaps of desperation and vanity. Eugh.