The Vladimir Putin appreciation thread.

el diablo

robindch wrote: »

I note you've shifted from "the US" to "US interests" - your point of view might be a little more credible if you stuck to holding just the one.It would, of course, be interesting and useful for you to share information concerning your time in Ukraine, and one wonders why you refuse to do so in a thread concerning the country - unless it happens that you were just transiting the country briefly, in which case, staying schtum is wise indeed

In any case, is there really much of a point in discussing something with somebody who adds to an earlier insulting implication that I am a liar, by suggesting that I might be an idiot too?

So in your opinion the US (or US interests) played absolutely no role in the destabilization of Ukraine?

robindch

el diablo wrote: »

So do you believe that the US played absolutely no role in the destabilization of Ukraine?

To repeat what I said before - the US and its agencies played no significant role - good or bad - before, during or after the period when corrupt president Yanukovich chose to flee the country when his interior troops abandoned him.

And certainly it did effectively nothing when one compares its role to Russia's role as invader, propagandist and thief within Crimea. And within Donbass - invader, thief, bankroller and supplier of regular and irregular military forces.

Not to forget either, that Russia also supplied the БУК which shot down MH17 and the hundreds of men, women and children in it.

cnocbui

Not to mention the significant meddling by Russia to ensure pro-Russian a******s got elected. Russian attempted assassination of Viktor Yushchenko and other forms of interference = good. US interference = bad?

conditioned games

cnocbui wrote: »

Not to mention the significant meddling by Russia to ensure pro-Russian a******s got elected. Russian attempted assassination of Viktor Yushchenko and other forms of interference = good. US interference = bad?

Yanukovich was elected democratically, and no, Russia didn't decide he was to be president. There was no evidence provided Russia had a role in Viktor Yushchenko death. The coup and subsequent civil war in Ukraine was caused by a large extent due to US interference. Russia had no issue with Ukraine being a member of the Euroasian economic area and the EU at the same time, but the EU said no. Through US enforced sanctions and financing of terrorist organisations in Ukraine the country is now a mess. Just another country in a long list the US has helped to create turmoil in.

robindch

conditioned games wrote: »

The coup and subsequent civil war in Ukraine was caused by a large extent due to US interference.

False.

There was no "coup" in Kyiv.

Ukraine is not having a civil war. Instead, it was destabilized and invaded by Russia. That's why there are lots of Russian regular and irregular soldiers in Donbass.

For better or for worse, the US and its agents played no significant part in events in Ukraine since 2014.

conditioned games wrote: »

Russia had no issue with Ukraine being a member of the Euroasian economic area and the EU at the same time, but the EU said no.

False.

The EU had no problem with Ukraine making whatever decisions it wanted to. However, Russia did want to be party to accession talks and the EU refused, saying that Ukraine's future was a matter for Ukraine alone.

conditioned games wrote: »

Through US enforced sanctions and financing of terrorist organisations in Ukraine the country is now a mess.

False.

The US is not funding "terrorist organizations". Russia is providing and funding irregular military personnel and weapons in Donbass.

conditioned games wrote: »

Just another country in a long list the US has helped to create turmoil in.

False.

For better or for worse, the US and its agents played no significant part in events in Ukraine since 2014.

conditioned games wrote: »

There was no evidence provided Russia had a role in Viktor Yushchenko death.

Sorry to break the news to you, but Viktor Yushchenko is alive.

You don't appear to have the faintest grasp of what is happening in Ukraine and your fantasy vision of what's going on there seems to be acquired entirely from state-controlled Russian telly.

Gatling

Fail

conditioned games

robindch wrote: »

For better or for worse, the US and its agents played no significant part in events in Ukraine since 2014.

Your nearly as blind as Gatling, if the sky was blue you'd say it's green because the controlled western media told you. You can deny US involvement in the coup and subsequently civil war in Ukraine if you want but the pictures and videos that have come out during and after the events have told a different story.

Gatling

conditioned games wrote: »

Your nearly as blind as Gatling, if the sky was blue you'd say it's green because the controlled western media told you. You can deny US involvement in the coup and subsequently civil war in Ukraine if you want but the pictures and videos that have come out during and after the events have told a different story.

Stop seriously ,

The facts speak for themselves ,we yet to see anything​ that proves otherwise​ even putin himself publicly said it maybe check the old memo's​

el diablo

conditioned games wrote: »

Your nearly as blind as Gatling, if the sky was blue you'd say it's green because the controlled western media told you. You can deny US involvement in the coup and subsequently civil war in Ukraine if you want but the pictures and videos that have come out during and after the events have told a different story.

Think we're wasting our time here attempting to educate these people. :rolleyes:


“It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.”

conditioned games

el diablo wrote: »

Think we're wasting our time here attempting to educate these people. :rolleyes:


“It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.”

Your right. They are happy to believe the narrative they've being fed and unwilling to see reality. The demonization of Russia over the last 6yrs has been shameful but we may as well be taking to a wall on here with some.

robindch

conditioned games wrote: »

Your nearly as blind as Gatling, if the sky was blue you'd say it's green because the controlled western media told you.

Luckily, I was there and saw what happened with my own eyes and spoke to some of the people involved.

Were you there? And did you speak with the people on the front line?

el diablo

robindch wrote: »

Luckily, I was there and saw what happened with my own eyes and spoke to some of the people involved.

Were you there? And did you speak with the people on the front line?

Even if you were actually there you'd have no idea what was really going on behind the scenes and who orchestrated it. Anyway, the truth will out eventually.

robindch

el diablo wrote: »

Even if you were actually there you'd have no idea what was really going on behind the scenes and who orchestrated it.

Grand, I'll take that as an admission that you weren't there and spoke with nobody.

Hardly any point in you repeating your evidence-free claims at this point?

el diablo

robindch wrote: »

Grand, I'll take that as an admission that you weren't there and spoke with nobody.

Hardly any point in you repeating your evidence-free claims at this point?

What a nonsensical, ignorant comment. So basically you've spoken to a Ukrainian guy who told you of his version of events and you've taken it as gospel.

Yourself isit

robindch wrote: »

I note you've shifted from "the US" to "US interests" - your point of view might be a little more credible if you stuck to holding just the one.It would, of course, be interesting and useful for you to share information concerning your time in Ukraine, and one wonders why you refuse to do so in a thread concerning the country - unless it happens that you were just transiting the country briefly, in which case, staying schtum is wise indeed

In any case, is there really much of a point in discussing something with somebody who adds to an earlier insulting implication that I am a liar, by suggesting that I might be an idiot too?

Why do you think a trip to a country makes you the expert on it? what did you see to confirm or deny what anybody else would know from disparate sources. Were you privy to some secret information?

And how does this apply across boards. Should we limit discussion on the French election to people who have holiday snaps of the eiffel tower?

Gatling

Yourself isit wrote: »

And how does this apply across boards. Should we limit discussion on the French election to people who have holiday snaps of the eiffel tower?

How bout an Intelligence test on the subject before been allowed to post ,

Might end up a very quiet and quick discussion

XsApollo

Obama has admitted they were involved.
They were backing people and facilitating them to take power from the government that was in place.
They wanted Ukraine to be PRO Europe and move away from Russia and they didn't give a toss who was trying to take power as long as they weren't Russia aligned.

XsApollo

It's not the first time they have done it and it won't be the last.

Jimmy Garlic

Gatling wrote: »

How bout an Intelligence test on the subject before been allowed to post ,

Might up a very quiet and quick discussion

You know very little about Ukraine and Russia. Up until a few years ago no doubt you thought Kiev was a breaded chicken dish with garlic sauce inside.

PhuckHugh

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

You know very little about Ukraine and Russia. Up until a few years ago no doubt you thought Kiev was a breaded chicken dish with garlic sauce inside.

oooft.

robindch

el diablo wrote: »

What a nonsensical, ignorant comment. So basically you've spoken to a Ukrainian guy who told you of his version of events and you've taken it as gospel.

Yourself isit wrote: »

Why do you think a trip to a country makes you the expert on it? what did you see to confirm or deny what anybody else would know from disparate sources. Were you privy to some secret information?

And how does this apply across boards. Should we limit discussion on the French election to people who have holiday snaps of the eiffel tower?

Looking at these two foolish replies, I'm reminded of Michael Gove's moronic comment to the effect that "the people" have had enough of people who've made a serious effort to understand a topic.

Back off to youtube now with the two of you, lads. You know the moon landing was faked by Bigfoot and the CIA? A nice Russian lad on youtube told me :rolleyes:

Gatling

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

You know very little about Ukraine and Russia. Up until a few years ago no doubt you thought Kiev was a breaded chicken dish with garlic sauce inside.

Unfortunately Jimmy yet again your wrong ,

But hey keep trying x

1st dalkey dalkey

The Donbas is just the latest in the line of Russian 'near abroad' incursions. Crimea, Abkhazia and south Ossetia in Georgia, Transdniestria in Moldova.
Claiming that it is all the fault of the USA is just like the Isis. Everything is the fault of the great satan. It is a handy, but patently ridiculous way out for a regime with no other way out.
Russia still hankers for the bygone days of power in much the same way as the UK is currently doing with it's Brexit notions of 'taking back control' and re-constituting the Empire. Trump is also going to 'make America great again' apparently, by building a wall and increasing his military spending. Another effort to re-create the past.
They are all equally stupid and it would be laughable if it weren't so dangerous.
Time waits for no man (or woman).

el diablo

robindch wrote: »

Looking at these two foolish replies, I'm reminded of Michael Gove's moronic comment to the effect that "the people" have had enough of people who've made a serious effort to understand a topic.

Back off to youtube now with the two of you, lads. You know the moon landing was faked by Bigfoot and the CIA? A nice Russian lad on youtube told me :rolleyes:

You claim to have spent time in Ukraine but you are completely clueless as to what really happened there. You're just another victim of the mass brainwashing regarding Russia. Don't bother to respond as I'm unsubscribing from this thread and your response won't be read. :rolleyes:

robindch

^^^ Never fails to amaze me how Putin's foreign (?) friends feel qualified to sound off on a complex, multifaceted conflict concerning a country that most or all of them couldn't place on a map.

Слава Україні!

robindch

1st dalkey dalkey wrote: »

The Donbas is just the latest in the line of Russian 'near abroad' incursions. Crimea, Abkhazia and south Ossetia in Georgia, Transdniestria in Moldova.

I've been to Abkhazia and Transdniestra - they're both unforgettable places for all the wrong reasons - both are neo-soviet throwbacks, corrupt beyond belief with creaking economies sustained by a dripfeed of officials and cash from Moscow, limited life expectancy and social problems to a band playing. Ossetia appears to be similar and Crimea is heading that way fast.

1st dalkey dalkey wrote: »

Russia still hankers for the bygone days of power in much the same way as the UK is currently doing with it's Brexit notions of 'taking back control' and re-constituting the Empire. Trump is also going to 'make America great again' apparently, by building a wall and increasing his military spending. Another effort to re-create the past.

For a few years - perhaps since Russia's invasion of Georgia - the world has been heading into one of its periodic dalliances with petty, occasionally vicious nationalism, authoritarianism and artificial border/foreigner problems.

It remains to be seen whether it can come out the other side and back into a liberal democratic mode without the usual intervention of significant war.

BuyersRemorse

It would take folk approximately 5 minutes to read up on US Interventions worldwide, politically and Military, since World War 2, and the resultant misery they have inflicted. If people still want to view Russia and/or China as the bogey men for the new millennium, then there's very little you could say to change their minds.

robindch

BuyersRemorse wrote: »

It would take folk approximately 5 minutes to read up on US Interventions worldwide, politically and Military, since World War 2, and the resultant misery they have inflicted.

I don't think that anybody here has denied that some US interventions have been disastrous. The US made no significant intervention, before, during or after, the Maidan protests which led to Yanukovich departing the scene.

In this thread, we are discussing Ukraine and, from time to time, Russia's constant insistence that it was the US/EU/CIA/Mossad which triggered the protests and Yanukovich's departure.

Russia is lying. In Ukraine, people were pissed off with (a) massive corruption, so they protested. And the protests brought (b) a crackdown from the president. And (c) the crackdown went sour. And (d) the president fled. It really is as simple as that.

One doesn't need a degree in Modern Russian History to see why Putin might be very interested in saying that "it was foreigners". After all, Putin himself had got as far as (b) himself the year before in the Болотная Площадь, Bolotnaya Square, protests in Moscow and was starting to look uncharacteristically wobbly.

I mean, this explanation - which has the benefit of being quite easy to piece together - is straightforward and simple. No need to propose complicated, improbable stories involving foreign spies, hacked phone calls, US vice-presidents - stories with evidential holes which a horse could poke sticks through.

Elmer Blooker

robindch wrote: »

It remains to be seen whether it can come out the other side and back into a liberal democratic mode without the usual intervention of significant war.

Like the liberal democratic Yeltsin years?
This era has been erased from history so here is a very interesting read to remind you what a "free" Russia was like.
http://www.greanvillepost.com/2016/09/13/clinton-russia-has-us-media-forgotten-the-1990s/

humanji

BuyersRemorse wrote: »

It would take folk approximately 5 minutes to read up on US Interventions worldwide, politically and Military, since World War 2, and the resultant misery they have inflicted. If people still want to view Russia and/or China as the bogey men for the new millennium, then there's very little you could say to change their minds.

Why are people so desperate to assume there must be a good guy? They're all villains. They've all done terrible things. And they'll all continue to do terrible things to ensure their own survival.