The Vladimir Putin appreciation thread.

Gatling

Gringo180 wrote: »

Any facts involved here or is it just your blatant bias against anything Russian taking over?

Vote at gunpoint? Is this some sort of wind up?

Its safe to say you Know absolutely nothing about Ukraine and what happened in Crimea ,

Gatling

Gatling wrote: »

I'm sure the 750 russians surveyed would say no ,

If russia was actually punished severely kicked out of the swift banking system for a start it might be possible ,
But might be a better idea starting in Georgia and then going back to Crimea

Actually it was 750 respondents, of which 63% declared their nationality as Russian, 21% as Ukrainian and 8.5% as Tatar. Whats that about you and facts?

PopePalpatine

XsApollo wrote: »

Of all the leaders in the world right now, if I had to pick one.
Vlad would be number one

Any particular reason, besides the trite "he don't afraid of the big bad USA!" stuff?

Gatling

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Actually it was 750 respondents, of which 63% declared their nationality as Russian, 21% as Ukrainian and 8.5% as Tatar. Whats that about you and facts?

Stopped reading at 750 unfortunately it added nothing

XsApollo

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Any particular reason, besides the trite "he don't afraid of the big bad USA!" stuff?

I actually like how he comes across in interviews and in any open discussions I've watched of him.
I get the impression that If he was at a table with Enda or Trump or could tear the **** out of em in any discussion serious or funny.
He isn't like the majority of monkeys in power with regards to being too PC.
He seems to have a good sense of humour.

Gatling

Gatling wrote: »

Stopped reading at 750 unfortunately it added nothing

To what? Your own narrative? You don't read stuff you don't agree with?

XsApollo

prinzeugen

XsApollo wrote: »

Why does boards not have a dislike thing.. (and I know its not facebook etc before anyone starts)

Gatling

[Deleted User] wrote: »

To what? Your own narrative? You don't read stuff you don't agree with?

I read a lot but when you get a supposedly independent poll carried by a Moscow based center you be be sure it will only ever have a prorussian favor unfortunately,

Pay raises were promised , massive tourism influx , freedoms none of which has materialised but according to the UN rights are been abused lands , properties and businesses sized by russians so the whole idea Crimea is a happy Russoeutpoia is bs .
Time will eventually tell the truth unlike Putin and his cronies

Gatling

Gatling wrote: »

I read a lot but when you get a supposedly independent poll carried by a Moscow based center you be be sure it will only ever have a prorussian favor unfortunately

I'd hardly accuse the 2 authors of the poll (both based in the US) as being biased in favour of the Russian viewpoint? Would you? If you don't like that poll then, then how about these 3 further polls carried out by Western based organizations in 2014 & 2015. All appear to correlate the previous poll.

https://www.quora.com/2015-Russia-Ukraine-Conflict-Do-people-in-Crimea-regret-their-decision-to-be-a-part-of-Russia

Even Forbes appears to admit that the majority of the locals want nothing to do with the Ukraine:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2015/03/20/one-year-after-russia-annexed-crimea-locals-prefer-moscow-to-kiev/#3fca5bbc510d

Jimmy Garlic

Gatling wrote: »

I read a lot but when you get a supposedly independent poll carried by a Moscow based center you be be sure it will only ever have a prorussian favor unfortunately,

Pay raises were promised , massive tourism influx , freedoms none of which has materialised but according to the UN rights are been abused lands , properties and businesses sized by russians so the whole idea Crimea is a happy Russoeutpoia is bs .
Time will eventually tell the truth unlike Putin and his cronies

I am going to Russia again in the Summer. Want to tag along? We can go to Crimea and you can see how things are for yourself. You could do a vox pop on the streets of Sevastopol. Of course when you don't get answers that confirm your bias you would probably put that down to the FSB being around the corner waiting to cart dissenters off to a gulag.

B_Wayne

conditioned games wrote: »

What makes you think Tatars are being persecuted. A link to a euronews site saying officials were denied access to Crimea back in 2014 doesn't support your theory. Would you rather the people of Crimea had to fight for their freedom from Ukraine rather than a peaceful vote?

You clearly didn't read the link from my previous post which you responded to. It backed up the persecuted Tatars point. You also don't seem to have refuted the fact that the referendum has legitimate cause to not be classified as fair or legitimate. So yep, you are condoning authoritarianism and engaging in propaganda...

Gatling

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

I am going to Russia again in the Summer. Want to tag along? We can go to Crimea

Send me your booking details and I'll book straight away ,

But I get the feeling it's not happening for some reason

ambro25

prinzeugen wrote: »

Where is next?

Given the US' increased tempo in Syria/Iraq, Damascus.

After that, or as an alternative, the Baltics. It's coming, and the West knows it. Fragmenting western unity and neutralising NATO politically, is what Putin has been stoking with pushing Brexit, Trump and, generally, all other populo-nationalist movements à la Front National here and there at the ass.

Georgia, Crimea and Eastern Ukraine were just pushing the envelope that little bit further every time. The pattern is pretty clear. Particularly once you put it all in the context of his very long-standing and unequivocally declared intent to rebuild a Warsaw Pact-like buffer.

humanji

XsApollo wrote: »

Man, what a loveable rogue.

Elmer Blooker

humanji wrote: »

Man, what a loveable rogue.

... heres the REAL loveable rogue, the biggest problem with Putin is that he's not Yeltsin!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4q_HYVNqV0

robindch

conditioned games wrote: »

Robin these are your views so far.

Denied US involvement in the Ukrainian coup when even Obama said "Washington had brokered a deal to transition power" while US assistant secretary Victoria Nuland openly said, the US invested $5 billion in Ukraine since 1991 and the IMF gave a loan of $17 billion in 2014 most of which has been spent on military in the Ukrainian civil war.

Given the above and your obnoxious attitude of know it all because you holidayed in Ukraine, it really is hard to take you seriously.

Your inability to reproduce my views is matched only by your inability to understand or remember even the most basic facts concerning either Ukraine or Russia. One suspects that these two inabilities on your part are closely linked.

Rather than rehash anything I've written previously - and have it ignored or intentionally misrepresented again by posters on the pro-Putin side - I'll just cover one item which you've listed above which I haven't debunked recently.

And that's the claim that "US invested $5 billion in Ukraine since 1991" as though there were some problem with that. That money was paid through the USAID for a variety of stabilization programs - these included demilitarizing the country (including removing its nuclear weapons), encouraging a proper market economy with adequate governance, agriculture, education, health, environmental and other broadly humanitarian needs including funding for anti-trafficking programs. You can find some details of the individual cash disbursements here. I presume you're happy, for instance, to see the US working to reduce human trafficking?

My memory tells me that during the same period during which Ukraine received approximately five billion dollars (and was somewhere in the 15-20th worldwide in overall terms of US cash received), Russia received around twenty-five billion dollars for roughly the same headline items. Russia also received a massive IMF bailout in 1998 when its economy collapsed (again).

No doubt your forays into youtube failed to inform you of even the most basic facts of the USAID and other programs as they apply to Russia.

Finally, I don't just "holiday" in Ukraine - I've also done business in the country. Have you?

chupacabra

This thread is interesting reading.

Pro-Putin guys asking for facts. You give them facts and they either ignore them or put it down to some kind of conspiracy nonsense. I have lived in Estonia for many years, i've lived and worked with Estonians, Russians and Russian-Estonians, Latvians etc. and you better believe they all live in fear of Putin and his shady warmongering ways every day of their lives. They expect the same shíte happening in eastern Ukraine to happen in Latvia and Estonia and they know that there is absolutely nothing the west will do to stop it in the end. NATO are toothless and they feel very much alone.

Putin is a monster and its disgusting to see so many people praising him here. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

Elmer Blooker

Can you chupacabra or your Estonian friends give me a single solitary reason why Putin would want to invade the Baltic States? (an invasion has been "imminent" for three years now!)
Anyone who falls for this "Putin-wants-to-restore-the-Soviet-empire" fairytale should really try and think for themselves and not fall for this 1950s mindless propaganda.
If that's being "pro-Putin" then that's too bad!

cnocbui

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Can you chupacabra or your Estonian friends give me a single solitary reason why Putin would want to invade the Baltic States? (an invasion has been "imminent" for three years now!)
Anyone who falls for this "Putin-wants-to-restore-the-Soviet-empire" fairytale should really try and think for themselves and not fall for this 1950s mindless propaganda.
If that's being "pro-Putin" then that's too bad!

Georgia, Ukraine, Crimea - that's three.

XsApollo

Russia will never invade the Baltic states as they are now.
Putin isn't that stupid.

XsApollo

Actually I'd go as far and say Putin is living in fear of having his country surrounded by Pro American countries,
Full of missile shields effectively nullfying any detterant his country has.
NATO and the USA know Russia will not allow that to happen but yet countinue to push and push.
Pretty much the same way if the shoe was on the other foot the US would never allow that to happen to them.
It's the same with the Chinese , they keep propping North Korea up for the same reason, that is going to get nasty soon I reckon, If the US keep pushing and pushing there.
China don't want a US influenced country on their border planting missile shields and surrounding them and eventually will start pushing back themselves and we will have a Russia type situation with the Chinese.

Regardless of the missile shields intentions when they are installed, if things ever turn sour you can bet they could be turned offensive pretty easy, surely ye can see why any country in the world wouldn't want that to happen to them.

ambro25

XsApollo wrote: »

Russia will never invade the Baltic states as they are now.

"Russia" didn't invade Georgia, Crimea or Eastern Ukraine, I don't think. South Ossetians, Abkhazians and Spetsnaz "Pro-Russian separatists", more like

XsApollo wrote: »

Putin isn't that stupid.

He's anything but, on that we're well agreed.

chupacabra

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Can you chupacabra or your Estonian friends give me a single solitary reason why Putin would want to invade the Baltic States? (an invasion has been "imminent" for three years now!)
Anyone who falls for this "Putin-wants-to-restore-the-Soviet-empire" fairytale should really try and think for themselves and not fall for this 1950s mindless propaganda.
If that's being "pro-Putin" then that's too bad!

hmm, i dont seem to remember using the word "invasion", putting words in my mouth. Not worth my time.

XsApollo

ambro25 wrote: »

"Russia" didn't invade Georgia, Crimea or Eastern Ukraine, I don't think. South Ossetians, Abkhazians and Spetsnaz "Pro-Russian separatists", more like
He's anything but, on that we're well agreed.

Georgia , Crimea , Ukraine arnt in the same situation as Lithuania , Estonia , Latvia.
You can surely see the difference yes?
He might as well invade Ireland while he is at it.

robindch

XsApollo wrote: »

Georgia , Crimea , Ukraine arnt in the same situation as Lithuania , Estonia , Latvia. You can surely see the difference yes?

The difference is that the three Baltic states are bound by the terms of a mutual self-defence treaty, while the first three aren't.

Putin might be a conniving, malignant, war-mongering sh*t, but he doesn't yet know that Europe (and perhaps the US) won't come to the aid of their military allies. And, as we all agree, he's good at playing people, organizations and countries for short-term aims.

I'm sure the pro-Putin side has a range of other unhinged and improbable explanations for the same - probably involving social decline in the EU/US caused by the general lack of the Orthodox Church, all those gheys, and of course, Conchita Wurst.

robindch

robindch wrote: »

The difference is that the three Baltic states are bound by the terms of a mutual self-defence treaty, while the first three aren't.

Putin might be a conniving, malignant, war-mongering sh*t, but he doesn't yet know that Europe (and perhaps the US) won't come to the aid of their military allies. And, as we all agree, he's good at playing people, organizations and countries for short-term aims.

I'm sure the pro-Putin side has a range of other unhinged and improbable explanations for the same - probably involving social decline in the EU/US caused by the general lack of the Orthodox Church, all those gheys, and of course, Conchita Wurst.

Speaking of Eurovision singers, any chance Ukraine will stop acting childishly and let Julia Samoilova sing in the competition in Ukraine?

robindch

Gatling wrote: »

The majority of Crimea voted to rejoin russia the whole 120%+ of the population yeah right ,they only made up a 58% of the population but yet 120% said they voted to rejoin russia ,you forget the part where Vladi himself publicly stated he decided to take Crimea back when the protests stated ,read the memos

There were also multiple reports of Carousel Voting, Russian soldiers voting, voter intimidation - and my favourite one - where the Russians helpfully opened a voting station in Moscow where people could cast their votes there. The only people who observed the "vote" were a bunch of right-wing and left-wing extremists gathered from around the world - I'm sure their videos are still up on youtube.

Putin was also recorded by the BBC as saying that he was ready to threaten to use nuclear weapons while taking over Crimea. It's obviously almost impossible to ascertain whether that was just some subsequent dick-waving to the UK audience, or whether the psychopath actually was prepared at the time to threaten to use them.

robindch

Deleted User wrote: »

Speaking of Eurovision singers, any chance Ukraine will stop acting childishly and let Julia Samoilova sing in the competition in Ukraine?

I see you've ignored the point - I'm going to assume that you're too embarrassed to reply and that you therefore accept the points.

As for the Russian contestant - well, three things on that.

Firstly, Ukraine are well within their rights to ban people who violate their laws from entering their country - there's a long list of people banned from Russia - Bill Browder springs to mind.

Secondly, the EBU have said that the singer can join remotely from Moscow and I'm sure she will, if the ban isn't lifted (unless Russia wants to play it for the propaganda, which it's more likely to do).

Finally, I'm with the Ukrainian MP who suggested a week or two ago that she'd be thrilled to have the Russians in town, so long as they come without any little green men and without any of the heavy weaponry which they're providing to their regular and irregular military units in Donbass.

XsApollo

robindch wrote: »

The difference is that the three Baltic states are bound by the terms of a mutual self-defence treaty, while the first three aren't.

Putin might be a conniving, malignant, war-mongering sh*t, but he doesn't yet know that Europe (and perhaps the US) won't come to the aid of their military allies. And, as we all agree, he's good at playing people, organizations and countries for short-term aims.

I'm sure the pro-Putin side has a range of other unhinged and improbable explanations for the same - probably involving social decline in the EU/US caused by the general lack of the Orthodox Church, all those gheys, and of course, Conchita Wurst.

Exactly,
So if NATO is worth anything and you'd surely want to believe it is, then the baltic countries have nothing to worry about.
I don't think the US wants Russia to test that it is , and the same I don't think Putin is stupid enough the call its bluff.