LOI soccer player stopped using weights to "get around the park better"...

Alf Veedersane

Danye wrote: »

So your basing your opinion on somebody else's speculative opinion, without knowing the player and without knowing what the player did or didn't do in the gym?

It didn't seem to be speculation

You wanted an answer to a question on whether his lifting was affecting his football or not, without knowing what the player did or didn't do.

I do think weight training can enhance a soccer player's performance. But done wrong it can have a negative impact.

Alf Veedersane

Danye wrote: »

So your basing your opinion on somebody else's speculative opinion, without knowing the player and without knowing what the player did or didn't do in the gym?

It didn't seem to be speculation

You wanted an answer to a question on whether his lifting was affecting his football or not, without knowing what the player did or didn't do.

I do think weight training can enhance a soccer player's performance. But done wrong it can have a negative impact.

Danye

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

It didn't seem to be speculation

You wanted an answer to a question on whether his lifting was affecting his football or not, without knowing what the player did or didn't do.

I do think weight training can enhance a soccer player's performance. But done wrong it can have a negative impact.

How so?

It came across that posters on this forum suggested that Chambers was wrong to stop lifting weights. I then asked that if James has a great season would his decision to stop lifting be justified?

Of course lifting weights, correctly programmed would improve a player but it's not the only way.

Alf Veedersane

tastyt wrote: »

I have a bit of experience training with league of Ireland teams. I can tell you that football in this country is way behind rugby and gaa when it comes to s&c.

I don't know anything about this case except I am aware of the player and he had bulked up a bit over the last year or so. I would put my mortgage on it been done in a pure hypertrophy, isolation, curls kind of training environment. Absolutely nothing wrong with that in general but obviously the lad should have been leaning towards the strength training side of things.
I'd be very suprised if he had a proper squat or deadlift programme either which is shocking really for a semi / professional footballer.

On the getting smaller argument I do believe it will benefit him. I'm not saying he should lose strength but he's a midfield player and was carrying weight he didn't need . He looked like he was all " guns and show " which is pretty useless when your job is to run 10k over 90 Minutes. Again, I totally agree that weight training is essential for today's football player but this lads training was just aimed at the wrong goal.

This is the post I was referring to.

But I'm not sure what other training would achieve the same benefits for a player as weight training.

And the discussion was on weight training and it's benefits for sawker players.

Yes there is more than one way of doing anything and some lads would benefit by running lap after lap. But are there plenty of other ways to structure running training to improve performance? Absolutely.

Whether it's weight training or running, you want to optimise the training you do for sports performance. Not just do it because it might benefit you.

Danye

tastyt wrote: »

I have a bit of experience training with league of Ireland teams. I can tell you that football in this country is way behind rugby and gaa when it comes to s&c.

I don't know anything about this case except I am aware of the player and he had bulked up a bit over the last year or so. I would put my mortgage on it been done in a pure hypertrophy, isolation, curls kind of training environment. Absolutely nothing wrong with that in general but obviously the lad should have been leaning towards the strength training side of things.
I'd be very suprised if he had a proper squat or deadlift programme either which is shocking really for a semi / professional footballer.

On the getting smaller argument I do believe it will benefit him. I'm not saying he should lose strength but he's a midfield player and was carrying weight he didn't need . He looked like he was all " guns and show " which is pretty useless when your job is to run 10k over 90 Minutes. Again, I totally agree that weight training is essential for today's football player but this lads training was just aimed at the wrong goal.

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

This is the post I was referring to.

The one where the poster openly admits to knowing nothing of this individual case?

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

But I'm not sure what other training would achieve the same benefits for a player as weight training.

Football specific training would be more beneficial than any S&C programme IMO. No harm in having some sort of programme but not at the expense of skills.

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Whether it's weight training or running, you want to optimise the training you do for sports performance. Not just do it because it might benefit you.

Is this not what James is doing, by dropping lifting weights, for other forms of training which he finds is benefitting his game? Yet in almost every bodies opinion on this thread he is wrong for doing this?

Alf Veedersane

Danye wrote: »

Football specific training would be more beneficial than any S&C programme IMO. No harm in having some sort of programme but not at the expense of skills.

No one would suggest S&C at the expense of football specific training. It's a given that it would be to assist the football specific training.

Danye wrote:

Is this not what James is doing, by dropping lifting weights, for other forms of training which he finds is benefitting his game? Yet in almost every bodies opinion on this thread he is wrong for doing this?

'Lifting weights' is very broad.

If it's the wrong kind of lifting weights then he'd be better off not doing it. The right kind of 'lifting weights' would, alongside specific football-specific training, be beneficial to his game.

Mellor

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I would say based on the nature of their training. American Football player, sprinters etc aren't built/trained for endurance.

Neither are football players either. No footballers praises for their work rate on the pitch are built like long distance runners.

Stick a sprinter on a football field and he'll still be out running everyone at 90mins.

Hanley

Soccer is an alactic-aerobic sport.

It's why "running laps" is still a pretty important part of overall fitness, even if it's not cool or hip anymore.

Alf Veedersane

Hanley wrote: »

Soccer is an alactic-aerobic sport.

It's why "running laps" is still a pretty important part of overall fitness, even if it's not cool or hip anymore.

Absolutely. But I've just seen too many instances in the last 2-3 years where it's seen as the route to overall fitness at the expense of meaningful time doing other work on sprinting/speed, agility etc

Darkest Horse

Hanley wrote: »

Soccer is an alactic-aerobic sport.

It's why "running laps" is still a pretty important part of overall fitness, even if it's not cool or hip anymore.

There are much better ways to build aerobic capacity than running laps. Why bother with that when you can get to where you need to go through repeated accelerations and changes of direction? Yes, yes you have to work in lower heart rate zones etc. You get that from warm ups, lower intensity skill work and other more passive elements of training, all of which are probably concurrently enhancing relevant motor skills to a greater extent. Laps aren't cool in the sports training world for a reason, they are a very inefficient use of time and should be used sparingly if at all.

Chucky the tree

Mellor wrote: »

Neither are football players either. No footballers praises for their work rate on the pitch are built like long distance runners.

Stick a sprinter on a football field and he'll still be out running everyone at 90mins.

They're build is closer to a long distance runners vs you're average sprinters or NFL player.

MD1990

Hanley wrote: »

Soccer is an alactic-aerobic sport.

It's why "running laps" is still a pretty important part of overall fitness, even if it's not cool or hip anymore.

Its not important at all & no good soccer team would do them as there is no ball work involved in it. Something like Shuttle runs would be more benefictial.
Soccer u are chanaging direction deaccellerating alot so running laps would'nt help u perform better.

cc87

MD1990 wrote: »

Its not important at all & no good soccer team would do them as there is no ball work involved in it. Something like Shuttle runs would be more benefictial.
Soccer u are chanaging direction deaccellerating alot so running laps would'nt help u perform better.

I think you overestimate the practices of a lot of good clubs and underestimate the usefulness of distance runs.

JayRoc

Hanley wrote: »

Soccer is an alactic-aerobic sport.

It's why "running laps" is still a pretty important part of overall fitness, even if it's not cool or hip anymore.

Aerobic work is absolutely necessary, agreed. For recovery as much as anything else.

But with sufficient volume, repeated mid-range glycolytic/lactic work is another way to skin the aerobic cat.

Mellor

Chucky the tree wrote: »

They're build is closer to a long distance runners vs you're average sprinters or NFL player.

The are other considerations for the build of NFL players apart from speed or aerobic capacity.
Sprinters are the very end if the spectrum. Footballers might be closer in build to 400m runners. Certainly nowhere a marathoner or endurance athlete.

While obviously there's an upper limit to beneficial mass for a footballer. I think the idea in the OP that weights made him slow, and wre no benefit is miles off the mark.

Hanley

Darkest Horse wrote: »

There are much better ways to build aerobic capacity than running laps. Why bother with that when you can get to where you need to go through repeated accelerations and changes of direction? Yes, yes you have to work in lower heart rate zones etc. You get that from warm ups, lower intensity skill work and other more passive elements of training, all of which are probably concurrently enhancing relevant motor skills to a greater extent. Laps aren't cool in the sports training world for a reason, they are a very inefficient use of time and should be used sparingly if at all.

Note how "running laps" was in "inverted commas".

Implying I didn't actually mean "running laps", but aerobic work.

Mellor

MD1990 wrote: »

Its not important at all & no good soccer team would do them as there is no ball work involved in it. Something like Shuttle runs would be more benefictial.
Soccer u are chanaging direction deaccellerating alot so running laps would'nt help u perform better.

Not every aspect of your training (in any sport) needs to replicate the sport itself. Laps aiming to replicate running on the pitch.

There's almost no running involved in boxing or MMA. And I've never seen a ring or cage with hills in it.
Yet most fighters I know list steady runs and hill sprints as being key factors in their training.

Darkest Horse

Hanley wrote: »

Note how "running laps" was in "inverted commas".

Implying I didn't actually mean "running laps", but aerobic work.

Well that certainly isn't clear from what you wrote. You might have elaborated.

angela8915

It was a bog standard bodybuilding programme that could've been lifted out of any stupid BB magazine. I was shocked at how crap it was, huge amounts of reps and loads of stuff like pec deck work etc

LuckyLloyd

angela8915 wrote: »

It was a bog standard bodybuilding programme that could've been lifted out of any stupid BB magazine. I was shocked at how crap it was, huge amounts of reps and loads of stuff like pec deck work etc

Well let me be very clear: footballers shouldn't do the above "weight training". But that is a long way from proving that football players shouldn't use weights as part of their training to build strength and explosiveness.

ford2600

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Well let me be very clear: footballers shouldn't do the above "weight training". But that is a long way from proving that football players shouldn't use weights as part of their training to build strength and explosiveness.

I can remember an interview with former Arsenal player Steve Bould, around 1999/2000, in which he was praising Wegner weight training for his condition and reckoned it would allow him to play for longer into his 30's while lamenting he hadn't started before.

Can also remember Wegner getting bad press around same time over use of Creatine.

WHIP IT!

ford2600 wrote: »

I can remember an interview with former Arsenal player Steve Bould, around 1999/2000, in which he was praising Wegner weight training for his condition and reckoned it would allow him to play for longer into his 30's while lamenting he hadn't started before.

Can also remember Wegner getting bad press around same time over use of Creatine.

Gas isn't it. Even as recently as 99/00, professional footballers retiring to the local for a feed of pints would have been more socially acceptable than creatine.