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How to get more chin ups and pull ups
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19-02-2015 5:21pm#1Bodyweight movements can be a complete pig - how can you get stronger on something when there's no way of changing the weight of the movement?!
You can manipulate a few things;
> Number of reps
> Number of sets
> Tempo
In this video I talk about 2 scenarios;
1) How to go from a few chin ups, to a lot more
2) How to go from "zero" to "some"
Video notes below:
-[--OPTION 1--]-
STEP 1:
Test max chin ups / pull ups - if you get 4 or more - do the below:
STEP 2:
W1D1: 8x 50% of max reps
W1D2: 9x 50%
W1D3: 10x 50%
W2D1: 8x 50% +1 rep
W2D2: 9x 50% +1 rep
W2D3: 10x 50% +1 rep
STEP 3:
Stick to the system for 3-5 weeks and then retest.
-[--OPTION 2--]-
STEP 1:
Test max chin up / pull up negative (lowering) time. Your future goal is to get to AT LEAST 30s lowering in a slow, controlled and consistent manor.
STEP 2:
W1D1: 8x 50% of your time
W1D2: 9x 50%
W1D3: 10x 50%
W2D1: 8x 50% +1-2 sec
W2D2: 9x 50% +1-2 sec
W2D3: 10x 50% +1-2 sec
STEP 3:
Stick to the system for 3-5 weeks and then retest.31
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOTpJC6AcYQComments
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F*ck me. Well done.
How long did it take you to get here?
You could rerun it again for sure. I'd be interested to see what would happen if you added a 5-10kg plate and did max pull ups and used THAT number as the basis for the next run tho.
eg: you get 10kg x8
D1 = BW+10kg 8x4 etc etc
not long at all!
8 sets of 2
9 sets of 2
10 sets of 2
8 sets of 3
9 sets of 3
10 sets of 3
8 sets of 4
9 sets of 4
I Kept 60 to 90 seconds rest between sets
So 8 days, no set schedule..I started out every second day but then missed afew days and came back to it and went every second day.
Might give it a go with a weight so for the test after the 10 sets of 5 and see how i get on, could never picture myself doing a pull up with added weight
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bigronnie9 wrote: »not long at all!
8 sets of 2
9 sets of 2
10 sets of 2
8 sets of 3
9 sets of 3
10 sets of 3
8 sets of 4
9 sets of 4
I Kept 60 to 90 seconds rest between sets
So 8 days, no set schedule..I started out every second day but then missed afew days and came back to it and went every second day.
Might give it a go with a weight so for the test after the 10 sets of 5 and see how i get on, could never picture myself doing a pull up with added weight
Let's say you weight 80kg and do 8. That gives a theoretical max capacity of 101kg, or you +20kg.
Operating at about 85% of max capacity, you should get 4-6 reps, or 85kg for 4-6 reps.
That's you +5kg.
Great work so far - you should be really proud of yourself.0 -
Why do people like to over-complicate these things so much?
I got better at chin ups by simply doing them for a set amount of time several times a week... at the very beginning (over a decade ago now), that meant doing 10mins x3 times a week. Mon/wed/fri
In the beginning I could barely do more than 2 or 3 full chin ups at a go... but when you stick to a set amount of time, you will quickly improve.
After a few weeks doing 10mins, I was finding that more comfortable so I just simply added 5 mins. So now 15 mins x3 times a week. You can build up to 30-40 minutes within a few months if you're consistent.
Doing them for time is a very simple and straight forward progression method. Just listen to your body and push yourself a bit each time - but obviously not too hard.
Forget reps and sets - just do as much as you want in that time frame. And if you can find (or build) an outdoor bar, you can even make it more fun and interesting by trying some other moves when you get more confident too!
Monkeys don't do reps and sets... calisthenics is about playing and movement.
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Nicolas Cage wrote: »I'd rather take advice from a reputable trainer with a proven track record and his own successful gym business, but thanks anyway.
No problem.
I'm just giving people another method and a different perspective. I've been doing calisthenics training for a long time now, so I have a lot of experience in this area.
I think reps and sets can be a very rigid and robotic style when it comes to body weight movements. But that's just my opinion.
It's good for people to know there are alternative methods, and they can choose which one they prefer. My time method can be a more simplified and relaxed way... and it produces great results.
Also if anybody is looking to move on to more advanced calisthenic movements in the future, I feel it's good practice to move away from that reps & sets mentality when attempting more rhythmic/gymnastic style moves... which require a more relaxed playful approach. 0 -
ThinkProgress wrote: »No problem.
I'm just giving people another method and a different perspective. I've been doing calisthenics training for a long time now, so I have a lot of experience in this area.
I think reps and sets can be a very rigid and robotic style when it comes to body weight movements. But that's just my opinion.
It's good for people to know there are alternative methods, and they can choose which one they prefer. My time method can be a more simplified and relaxed way... and it produces great results.
Also if anybody is looking to move on to more advanced calisthenic movements in the future, I feel it's good practice to move away from that reps & sets mentality when attempting more rhythmic/gymnastic style moves... which require a more relaxed playful approach.
Well the best people at gymnastics are gymnasts, and when you get to a basic level at the sport you need to do co-ordinated and structured training to get the best out of it.0 -
ThinkProgress wrote: »Why do people like to over-complicate these things so much?
I got better at chin ups by simply doing them for a set amount of time several times a week... at the very beginning (over a decade ago now), that meant doing 10mins x3 times a week. Mon/wed/fri
In the beginning I could barely do more than 2 or 3 full chin ups at a go... but when you stick to a set amount of time, you will quickly improve.
After a few weeks doing 10mins, I was finding that more comfortable so I just simply added 5 mins. So now 15 mins x3 times a week. You can build up to 30-40 minutes within a few months if you're consistent.
Doing them for time is a very simple and straight forward progression method. Just listen to your body and push yourself a bit each time - but obviously not too hard.
Forget reps and sets - just do as much as you want in that time frame. And if you can find (or build) an outdoor bar, you can even make it more fun and interesting by trying some other moves when you get more confident too!
Monkeys don't do reps and sets... calisthenics is about playing and movement.
Overcomplicate things?
It's quite simple.
It's funny you complain about "over complicated" and then go on to suggest a different system which also requires tracking numbers and operating "off feel".
..which anyone who's trained more than a few people will realise can't be relied upon because most 'normal' people don't work well when left to their own devices. Prescribed sets and reps work well because they remove uncertainty.
It's easy to lose sight of that when n=1.0 -
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Overcomplicate things?
It's quite simple.
It's funny you complain about "over complicated" and then go on to suggest a different system which also requires tracking numbers and operating "off feel".
..which anyone who's trained more than a few people will realise can't be relied upon because most 'normal' people don't work well when left to their own devices. Prescribed sets and reps work well because they remove uncertainty.
It's easy to lose sight of that when n=1.
For me, your method is needlessly complicated. I'm not saying it's brain surgery either btw... just more complicated than I think it needs to be.
But to each their own. I'm sure lots of people like that rigid style of training.... it's not for me, and I could never have reached the level I'm at now by following a method such as that. (it would bore me to tears, and I would have quit calisthenics a long time ago)
I'm not here to start a row with you hanley, just giving people my alternative view. There are possibly others on here, like myself, that also would benefit from a more relaxed training style.
There is structure in my method btw. Time is a perfectly legit method of structuring your training. It would be wrong to categorize it as purely "off feel".
I started calisthenics as a way to train for climbing. That's probably why I favor a less prescriptive training style... Reps & sets is not much use for building the type of functional strength I required for that sport.
I see calisthenics just as much about skill as strength. In my experience, the best way to learn a skill is to approach it as playing. Like when you see children playing on the monkey bars in a playground... or climbing things, as children often do.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'normal'? I consider myself to be 'normal'... and my methods are not some crazy loopy training style.
I frequently do 45min intense "bar sessions" several times a week. (I have built up to this over many years). But I still follow the exact same training principles as when I started as a complete novice...
I listen to my body, like you would in any other fitness/sports activity. There's really no uncertainty about it. Your body will tell you very quickly if you are pushing too hard - too soon!
I did the same in many other activities. Take skipping for example... I used an identical training strategy to get better at skipping, which is another example of an activity which requires both skill and elements of fitness.
There is essentially no difference between something like skipping and strength calisthenics. Don't be tricked by the fact that one is strength-based and the other is cardio. Would you advise someone to use reps and sets to get better at skipping?
My time method works just as well for chin ups as it does for skipping. And time is a simple and perfectly legit way to ensure gradual progress.
But like I said, not looking to get into a row with you about it... we're all different beasts and we like different approaches.
I'm just giving people an alternative. Hopefully it can be helpful for someone, like it has been for me! 0 -
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I've no doubt that your method worked for you, and that you got better and stronger at chin up over time. But you are looking at it from the POV of you own familiarity.
But in the eyes of a novice, you method is much more complicated. Look how many questions get asked about a very programs. If you gave novices that instruction, a significant amount of people wouldn't have a clue how to approach that. Give it to three different people, and one would try to do too much, and another would do too little (lots of people are inherently lazy), one might get it right.
"Listen to your body" is great advice, but its not something that a lot of people are very good at doing.
Also, you said you progressed to 40mins a few times a week. Most people simply don't have that sort of time to spend on pull ups. They got all their other exercises to get through in the 3 sessions a week.
If someone is working towards "Bar Starz" type abilities (and it sounds like you were), they are a very unique subset, and none of this thread was aimed at them
I don't think the bit in bold is correct to be honest.
During your 10/15/20 mins of pull up, you were presumably doing multiple reps, broken up into sets. You maybe weren't counting them, and were they were less rigid. They were still random sets and reps, that increase from week to week as you got stronger.
In all likelihood, if you did actually counted all the sets and reps. You probably unknowingly did a rep scheme that wasn't unlike the one in the op.
(Day one = 10 mins = 5-10 sets of 2-3 reps, and so on)
Calistheics have a huge skill element. But this is a factor in some moves more than others. Pull-ups are a pretty basic movement, once you have the movement down, it mostly comes down to strength.
I'm doing calisthenics myself the moment. Some the movements I use a rep based progression. But a lot of them I train in terms of time: handstands, monkey bars, splits, horse stance. So I'm not complete ignorant to the approach you are describing. I just think most people will mess it up.
That depends.
Are they failing because they lack the skill to keep skipping. Or purely because they lack the physical fitness to go beyond a few seconds (they could skip when younger say)
The best way to solve those two issues is not the same.
I think we might have to agree to disagree on much of what you said there mellor... but that's okay, right?
There's no one right answer or approach to these things. It's quite likely you are not among those who would benefit from my methods.
I don't feel I was only seeing things from my own perspective. I think many people can potentially benefit from my approach.... but of course not everyone!
Some people will see a great deal more flexibility in my method, while others will see that flexibility as a negative aspect. That's life - no worries!
btw I quite often incorporate shorter duration "bar sessions" into my broader timed workout routines, or just throw a few in randomly within a broader timed workout, which is also another fun way to get better at them gradually without worrying about how many sets or reps you're doing... (again IF that more relaxed style is something that appeals to you)
So people should not worry about timed chin-ups getting in the way of their other exercises. There is plenty of room for flexibility if you keep an open mind about it.
Anyway, not here to get in some big entrenched dispute over which is the better method with you either mellor. It's good to give people alternative options. There's surely room for both?
People will gravitate towards whichever style fits their personality.But if I tell clients to go super set chins and dips, and get as many reps done as possible in 15 minutes I get about 4 or 5 questions.
Just to clarify something here hanley, I never advocated that anybody should test their max limits in every timed session... I don't consider that a wise training strategy.
That's why I talked about "playing" earlier. Personally I only occasionally push myself to my limits. Most of the time I like to keep something in the tank in most sessions. That's also what I'm referring to when I talk about listening to your body... I never suggested pushing to failure regularly.
Just because they're timed sessions, doesn't mean you are racing the clock.
Like I said earlier, push yourself a bit - but not too much. Imo and also in my experience, this is not difficult advice for most people to follow. I know some people on here will disagree, but we'll have to agree to disagree. 0 -
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Yer Aul One wrote: »Are pull ups harder for tall people than shorter people, say with the same body weight?
Read online about length of arms meaning there is more distance to travel. In my head I also feel that tall peoples centre of gravity is further from the bar. But are these negligible?
I really struggle with pull ups in comparison to my shorter friends but would usually be stronger than them on most other exercises. Wondering if I am just being a tinfoil hatter and need to just work on it more?
There's numerous reasons why you could be weaker on pull ups. Height is about 1 of 20 0 -
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Yer Aul One wrote: »Are pull ups harder for tall people than shorter people, say with the same body weight?
Read online about length of arms meaning there is more distance to travel. In my head I also feel that tall peoples centre of gravity is further from the bar. But are these negligible?
I really struggle with pull ups in comparison to my shorter friends but would usually be stronger than them on most other exercises. Wondering if I am just being a tinfoil hatter and need to just work on it more?
You don't mention how tall is tall?
But yes in general people on the shorter (and lighter) side will have an advantage when it comes to lifting their body weight. But it does also depend a lot on the individual in question too...
It doesn't mean you can't reach a good standard though. I've seen quite a few guys well over 6ft that are excellent. Try not to compare yourself too much with others. Just improve your own level. 0
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