Betta upsetting other fish?

Treepole

Is it possible my new Betta has upset the other fish in my aquarium?

It's 54L tank, fairly new setup and I only have 5 fish in it, 1 Siamese, 2 x platy & 2 x loaches.
The platy's and Loaches were in there first for a week and going well before I added the male Siamese fighting fish. Since then I've noticed one of the loaches is constantly in hiding and fairly listless and the past few days one of the platys has started acting the same.

The other loach is thriving and has grown considerably and the other platy seems fine, so I don't think it's a water issue.

Any ideas?

Sleepy

It's pretty much guaranteed. They're called fighter fish for a reason and should always be kept alone in their tank.

What ****ing moron sold you one for a community tank?!

kylith

Yeah, if you want a betta then it's either going to have to be kept alone or with small, short-finned, drab fish, otherwise it's likely to stress them and itself to death. I don't know much about loaches, but the platys would be a definite target. Have you seen it attack them? What are your water parameters like?

Ranchu

Sleepy wrote: »

It's pretty much guaranteed. They're called fighter fish for a reason and should always be kept alone in their tank.

What ****ing moron sold you one for a community tank?!

This is a ridiculous statement. They're called fighting fish because they fight with each other.

They do fine in a community tank once they are not nipped by other tank mates.

The op should get their water tested as it's a new aquarium and it's more likely to be a water quality issue.

kylith

Ranchu wrote: »

This is a ridiculous statement. They're called fighting fish because they fight with each other.

They do fine in a community tank once they are not nipped by other tank mates.

They will fight with anything they perceive to be another betta. Any brightly coloured tankmates will set them off, as will tankmates with long fins. As well as problems with other fish nipping at the betta's fins.

Sleepy

As Kylith says, they'll fight with almost anything you'd care to put them in a tank with. Depending on the temperament of the particular betta you can get away with keeping them with dull, short-finned fish that won't nip at their fins but that doesn't really describe most tropical fish.

The platy's in this instance are the likely "problem" for the betta as they're usually very brightly coloured.

Water quality should always be tested, particularly on a new tank but I'd stand by my statement that a betta isn't a good choice for a community tank for any but an experienced fishkeeper who's designed the tank to be first and foremost an environment for the betta and chosen his tankmates accordingly.

Ranchu

Have you ever kept one in a community tank? Have you ever kept one at all?

The ops problem is far more likely to be caused by a level of nitrite in the aquarium. My reasons for believing this are that it's a new aquarium so the chances of a nitrite spike are quite high. There is also no chance a betta is bullying a loach into constant hiding.

kylith

Ranchu wrote: »

Have you ever kept one in a community tank? Have you ever kept one at all?

Yes and yes. It had to be taken out of the community tank, and I kept several more happily in isolation. I found that they'll even attack ADFs if they're stroppy enough.

I have never seen any resource that is in any way credible which has said that Bettas are a suitable community fish. Everything I have read has said 'small-finned, drab tankmates', or 'should be kept alone'.

Sleepy

Ranchu wrote: »

Have you ever kept one in a community tank? Have you ever kept one at all?

The ops problem is far more likely to be caused by a level of nitrite in the aquarium. My reasons for believing this are that it's a new aquarium so the chances of a nitrite spike are quite high. There is also no chance a betta is bullying a loach into constant hiding.

Yep, I've kept Bettas but never in a community tank. Last one lived for over 4 years as a result of having a 54l tank to himself.

You're right that the chances of a nitrate spike are high and should also be looked at but I can't agree that a Betta is in any way suitable for community fish.

Ranchu

kylith wrote: »

Yes and yes. It had to be taken out of the community tank, and I kept several more happily in isolation. I found that they'll even attack ADFs if they're stroppy enough.

I have never seen any resource that is in any way credible which has said that Bettas are a suitable community fish. Everything I have read has said 'small-finned, drab tankmates', or 'should be kept alone'.

Small-finned would allow you to keep them with many species. Pretty much all hemigrammus, botia, danios, corys and lots of non nippy hyphessobrycon.

I also have seen them do fine with platies. The problems with mixing them with other fish usually arises from tank size and nippy fish attacking the betta.

FoxyVixen

I'm looking into getting a Siamese fighting fish myself and keep getting conflicting advice on what's a suitable fish to have with them to just keeping them on their own. I don't want to rush into getting it so am getting as much research on it as I can get. Ideally i'd like a male, but I'm thinking of getting a juwul trigon type tank and it would seem a waste to have just one fish in it. The exact tank size escapes me right now but it is a decent size.

Is there a differance in behaviour between male and female? Would the latter be more relaxed with a variety of differant fish? I know they're not as colourful as the male but would consider it an option if it meant I had a wider choice in other fish I could house.

What tank size have other posters here had where the betta seemed content living alongside other species? Kylith what size was the community tank that you took the betta out of? Just as a comparison to other posters who have succeeded in having them live with other fish. I'm not sure if it was here, but somewhere I saw someone say that tetras were ok too with a male?

Any other advice would be appreciated.

él statutorio

FoxyVixen wrote: »

I'm looking into getting a Siamese fighting fish myself and keep getting conflicting advice on what's a suitable fish to have with them to just keeping them on their own. I don't want to rush into getting it so am getting as much research on it as I can get. Ideally i'd like a male, but I'm thinking of getting a juwul trigon type tank and it would seem a waste to have just one fish in it. The exact tank size escapes me right now but it is a decent size.

Is there a differance in behaviour between male and female? Would the latter be more relaxed with a variety of differant fish? I know they're not as colourful as the male but would consider it an option if it meant I had a wider choice in other fish I could house.

What tank size have other posters here had where the betta seemed content living alongside other species? Kylith what size was the community tank that you took the betta out of? Just as a comparison to other posters who have succeeded in having them live with other fish. I'm not sure if it was here, but somewhere I saw someone say that tetras were ok too with a male?

Any other advice would be appreciated.

1 betta would look lost in a trigon to be fair.

You could get a lot of females though and just one male.

To be honest, if you're looking at getting something as big as a trigon (190 litres i think) you could go down the route of a community tank or an african cichlid tank.

Bettas are beautiful fish but in my experience tend to do better in smaller tanks where they can be kept alone. I've found tetras tend to nip at the fins of bettas.

Sleepy

With a Trigon I'd be looking at a community tank of mixed species. Not a fan of cichlid's myself but they're colourful and very popular.

Betta's can be fond of hiding so in something as big as a that, you'd hardly see him. I think the Trigon should be just about big enough for a couple of discus which are beautiful fish and they go very well with tetras.

Get the school of tetras first though, Discus need pretty much pristine water so make your beginners mistakes with the hardier, cheaper tetras.

FoxyVixen

Thanks guys. Thought the tank would be too big alright for a betta. Might look into a smaller tank for him so if I can find the place somewhere else in the house. What would be the best size tank for him on his own though? I'm afraid I'm being too anthropomorphic when considering him

I like the Trigon and have found one for a good price so I want to go with that tank and fill it with something suitable. Would angelfish be happy in it with other species that would stay more to the top level of the tank and the lower end? I like the sound of Discus, hadn't even considered them instead.

Sorry to highjack the thread. That's my last query on the tank here. I'll create a thread when I re-think what to do with it.

Sleepy

I have a 60l tank up on adverts which my little fella successfully kept a betta in for over 3 years.

I actually find the size of many tanks people keep Bettas in appalling. As they're labyrinth fish Bettas can survive in poor conditions but there's a big difference between surviving and thriving. You see people keeping them in 10/15 litre tanks that are just tiny (and IMO cruel). Personally I'd want at least a 40/45l tank for them.

Ranchu

FoxyVixen wrote: »

Thanks guys. Thought the tank would be too big alright for a betta. Might look into a smaller tank for him so if I can find the place somewhere else in the house. What would be the best size tank for him on his own though? I'm afraid I'm being too anthropomorphic when considering him

I like the Trigon and have found one for a good price so I want to go with that tank and fill it with something suitable. Would angelfish be happy in it with other species that would stay more to the top level of the tank and the lower end? I like the sound of Discus, hadn't even considered them instead.

Sorry to highjack the thread. That's my last query on the tank here. I'll create a thread when I re-think what to do with it.

Angels would be grand in that size aquarium. They will generally inhabit the middle. They can be kept with larger tetras, corydoras, ancistrus, loach etc...

I wouldn't recommend discus unless your tap water is acidic. Otherwise you would need to invest in an R.O unit and remineralise your the water. They're expensive and extremely unforgiving.

Sleepy

Yeah, they're probably a bit difficult for a beginner, Angels would be more forgiving and that tanks size is on the low end of what's acceptable for Discus.

Ever since Gavin showed me the DCC Water Engineers reports he used to get every week in Artane Aquatics, I've used re-mineralised RO water in my tanks. The words "acceptable levels of e coli" just seemed too much of a contradiction to me!

él statutorio

If you're just keeping the one male then a fluval edge is a nice tank for him.

Sleepy might consider it a bit on the small size but ornamental bettas don't need that big of a tank.

FoxyVixen

Thanks guys. Really appreciate all that information.

I'll look into something else for a betta, but it's definitely the trigon I'll be buying as I have a perfect spot for that in the house. Can't figure where to put a smaller tank just yet.

You've given me plenty of food for thought now. It's a project I want to start around May so plenty of time to research further.

kylith

When I've kept Bettas I kept them in a 40l tank and they do well in there. The community tank I have is about 120l. I'd love to have one in there, but it's just too iffy with tankmates.

There are some good options out there for centrepiece fish, I have a half-grown C. Apistogramma now who's starting to look magnificent.

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Ranchu wrote: »

Angels would be grand in that size aquarium. They will generally inhabit the middle. They can be kept with larger tetras, corydoras, ancistrus, loach etc...

I wouldn't recommend discus unless your tap water is acidic. Otherwise you would need to invest in an R.O unit and remineralise your the water. They're expensive and extremely unforgiving.

Discus are very hard to keep.i had some for a few months and they died. 200euro gone in a few days

FoxyVixen

kylith wrote: »

There are some good options out there for centrepiece fish, I have a half-grown C. Apistogramma now who's starting to look magnificent.

Thanks Kylith. Interesting fish. I'll definitely look into them as an alternative to having the betta in a large tank. Lovely fins on them.

kylith

FoxyVixen wrote: »

Thanks Kylith. Interesting fish. I'll definitely look into them as an alternative to having the betta in a large tank. Lovely fins on them.

They're beautiful alright, but thick as a brick. Just be aware that males will fight, and if you get a pair they will breed.

Sleepy

What's been your experience of their tolerance towards tank-mates kylith? My community tank is currently a mix of ember / scarlet / glow-light tetras / some white clouds, a zebra danio, a pleco and a couple of juvelnille mollies so, barring the pleco, all small fish, a few Apistogrammas would balance it nicely as they grow somewhat larger...

kylith

No problems at all. He tries to menace my Cardinal tetras occasionally, but without any success; looks impressive, actually a big softy, so thick he can't spot food in front of his face.

When I had two other males as well they would fight amongst themselves constantly, but by all accounts a good ratio of females to males should sort that. The females are much drabber, but are very cool to watch as they colour-shift around breeding time, as she turns bright yellow. If they breed keeping the tank around 27 degrees will yield more males, which are easier to rehome.

Knine

FoxyVixen wrote: »

Thanks guys. Really appreciate all that information.

I'll look into something else for a betta, but it's definitely the trigon I'll be buying as I have a perfect spot for that in the house. Can't figure where to put a smaller tank just yet.

You've given me plenty of food for thought now. It's a project I want to start around May so plenty of time to research further.

I have a 120L Community tank & also a 30L Betta Tank. He has a female Betta for company & they are thriving. He is forever flaring to her. They are a highly entertaining fish. My kids love them too.