Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

adam88

duskyjoe wrote: »

Adam are you doing a scoop as a journo? If you are you don’t belong here.

If you look back you see I often ask questions about aviation and the business side of things. It’s a pity people can’t ask questions without being accused of looking for a story. I’m sure there’s enough contacts within Aer lingus that are in often contact with the papers.

duskyjoe

In fairness Adam and with respect, your recent question was very journo oriented. I have zero axe to grind . Tbh I can’t imagine bods here discussing their individual contracts with their respective airlines. It’s quite a personal thing (a) to ask and (b) to divulge. People outside of the aviation sphere have this aura that crews are paid ingots of gold, it’s far from that. Many airline crews on overnights do not step out of their hotel rooms on overnights (long haul and short haul) so they can save their merge allowance to pay bills, so paltry is their basic salaries. Food for thought Adam.

Lapmo_Dancer

I’d be inclined to give Adam a break. All you have to do is google ‘Aer Lingus Pilot salary’ and up pops an extensive thread on airline pilot t’s and c’s on this very forum from a few years ago.

adam88

Guys I’m just asking a question. I’m not asking for figures just when your paid from. Are you paid the minute you step foot in company property, are you paid while briefing, what happens if your diverted are you still paid, what does duty hours mean. If there’s someplace that can answer that please please point me to that area.
I wasn’t aware that Aer lingus were majorly different in these terms to anyone else.

I’ll go back to the shadows where a lot of us are.
No wonder it’s the same people always posting here for fear of being attacked.

adam88

adam88 wrote: »

Can someone explain both cabin crew and flight crew pay. No specifics but just a quick jist of it please

What I was looking to understand is all this carry on about the 900 hours etc. Surely that’s not all a pilot works a year??

0lddog

adam88 wrote: »

What I was looking to understand is all this carry on about the 900 hours etc. Surely that’s not all a pilot works a year??

For a broad view better to go to www.pprune.org .

L1011

900 hours flight time is a legal maximum, most pilots would work close to that. That is flight time, there can be quite a bit of time working that is not flight.

Tenger

adam88 wrote: »

What I was looking to understand is all this carry on about the 900 hours etc. Surely that’s not all a pilot works a year??

Lets give each other a rest. Adam88 is a long time poster here who asked a question, not a 5 post wonder asking about salaries. I do understand that in Ireland talking about your salary is often seen as taboo.


The question of paid by the duty hour, the block hour or based on a salary scale in an important one.
The 900 hours limit is only for block hours, ie chock to chock. This is the basis of MoL's infamous assertion that pilots work "16 hours a week"

A flight to Paris for example is approx 90 mins each way. So a simple return journey is 3 hours, but the duty time is more as they check in approx an hour before departure and have a 45 minutes turnaround. So a 3 hour block is actually a 4 hr 45 duty.
Now look at going back and forth to London 4 times. Approx 1 hour 10 per sector equals 4 hours 40 block time, 1 hour pre flight prep and 3 turnarounds mean that of the approx 8 hours total duty only 60% of it was 'block time'. So paid for duty or block is a big factor if that is your normal route.
Some airlines only pay for the block time, some pay a basic for duty and add extra for the block time.

Another example is that in Aer Lingus flight crew going to the West Coast use bunks to get rest. SO they arent at the controls the whole 11 hours. But they still get credited with the full 11 hours. Ive been told that in Emirates you only get credited for time in the cockpit. (Cant prove the veracity of that)

smurfjed

Ive been told that in Emirates you only get credited for time in the cockpit. (Cant prove the veracity of that)

My understanding is that they are paid for the full amount of time, but they are credited with stick time in order to increase their productivity.
@Adam88..... keep asking, otherwise this place will get old and boring...
http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/jobs/Aer_Lingus_(ROI_Contract)

Aer Lingus pilots are paid a salary NOT paid per hour. The 900 hour rule will be a flying hours limit but won’t include other none flying work that pilots will do each month and year.

robbie1876

There are 'flight duty' limits and 'duty time' limits. Duty time is your non-flight hours that the company require you to be working, eg pre-flight preparations, standby time, simulator time etc. My understanding is pilots are paid a salary which includes duty time, plus an allowance per flight hour logged. It's all (clearly!) explained in the EASA AIR OPS section below:

ORO.FTL.210 Flight times and duty periods
(a) The total duty periods to which a crew member may be assigned shall not exceed:
(1) 60 duty hours in any 7 consecutive days;
(2) 110 duty hours in any 14 consecutive days; and
(3) 190 duty hours in any 28 consecutive days, spread as evenly as practicable throughout that period.

(b) The total flight time of the sectors on which an individual crew member is assigned as an operating crew member shall not exceed:
(1) 100 hours of flight time in any 28 consecutive days;
(2) 900 hours of flight time in any calendar year; and
(3) 1000 hours of flight time in any 12 consecutive calendar months.

Jack1985

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Aer Lingus pilots are paid a salary NOT paid per hour. The 900 hour rule will be a flying hours limit but won’t include other none flying work that pilots will do each month and year.

Same applies for CC.

goingnowhere

EI's operation planning on Friday was conservative but given the weather was reasonably sensible

For LHR, LGW, AMS the first flights were cancelled, these are slot restricted airports so delays not a a good idea.

There were ground delays of up to 1 hour on Friday at Dublin morning


The A320 crosswind certification with the original winglets is typically better that the 737NG/MAX with the big winglets. 38kt vs 33kt

adam88

Tenger wrote: »

Lets give each other a rest. Adam88 is a long time poster here who asked a question, not a 5 post wonder asking about salaries. I do understand that in Ireland talking about your salary is often seen as taboo.


The question of paid by the duty hour, the block hour or based on a salary scale in an important one.
The 900 hours limit is only for block hours, ie chock to chock. This is the basis of MoL's infamous assertion that pilots work "16 hours a week"

A flight to Paris for example is approx 90 mins each way. So a simple return journey is 3 hours, but the duty time is more as they check in approx an hour before departure and have a 45 minutes turnaround. So a 3 hour block is actually a 4 hr 45 duty.
Now look at going back and forth to London 4 times. Approx 1 hour 10 per sector equals 4 hours 40 block time, 1 hour pre flight prep and 3 turnarounds mean that of the approx 8 hours total duty only 60% of it was 'block time'. So paid for duty or block is a big factor if that is your normal route.
Some airlines only pay for the block time, some pay a basic for duty and add extra for the block time.

Another example is that in Aer Lingus flight crew going to the West Coast use bunks to get rest. SO they arent at the controls the whole 11 hours. But they still get credited with the full 11 hours. Ive been told that in Emirates you only get credited for time in the cockpit. (Cant prove the veracity of that)

Thank you for that.

I wasn’t aware that airlines had different ways of clocking up hours. I would have thought that every airline was the same and that maybe the big difference or attraction to working with x over z was the money per hour and maybe overnight allowance.

When you in your hotel in the states, be it with ei or other high profile airlines would you also get some payment for your time spent away.

I take it Ryanair probably pay chock to chock.

Also Is that why flying long haul might be seen as more attractive than short haul. One take off, one landing vs 3-4 take offs and landing.

Thanks again for the insight and sorry for taking things off point.

0lddog

adam88 wrote: »

..........Also Is that why flying long haul might be seen as more attractive than short haul. One take off, one landing vs 3-4 take offs and landing..........

Some like to sleep in their own beds at night & see their families every day ( well nearly every ) .

LH is not for such people.

As I posted above, have a look at pprune.org. If you have a focus on terms & conditions then head to the 'Terms of Endearment' forum.

kevinandrew

It appears bag charges and seat selection fees have returned to the new London City route, the booking engine had been showing a free checked bag and free seat selection at check in for about a month. It would have been interesting to see Aer Lingus maintain the full service product under their own brand but it looks unlikely now.

Van.Bosch

kevinandrew wrote: »

It appears bag charges and seat selection fees have returned to the new London City route, the booking engine had been showing a free checked bag and free seat selection at check in for about a month. It would have been interesting to see Aer Lingus maintain the full service product under their own brand but it looks unlikely now.

Would be hard to justify it versus LHR for example.

donkey balls

One of my work mates was on the 757 this month he said that some of the arm rests didn't work,He had the same experience last year as well including seats not reclining.
He asked me was it an ACMI flight or it is EI cabin crew possibly ASL flight crew.

Jack1985

It's a damp lease arrangement whereby ASL provides four Boeing 757's (CJX, LBR, LBS, LBT). It's crewed by Aer Lingus Cabin Crew on secondment to an extent (still fly limited A320 mainline routes in addition to primarily B757 transatlantics) and about 30% of Pilots on the 757 are EI flight deck on direct secondment the rest being ASL Pilots.

trellheim

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Would be hard to justify it versus LHR for example.

I had hoped that the freebies like the bag and seat selection would have been left in to cope with forcing pax to walk or bus over and back to T1 and for the routine poor RJ85 availability ... but no silly me.

Karl8415

Fast question to anyone in the know,the A330 will soon come off agp for winter but why is this,I ask because the route is so incredibly popular never mind the weather there during the same period so is it down to widebodies going into heavy maintenance so remaining must pick up the slake or just not enough pax on board to justify sending a330 down

goingnowhere

A330 maintenance is typically focused on Nov/Jan/Feb.
EI are short on A330 crews also, so the crews need time off and EI need time to train more.
The good news is it typically means a spare A330 in Dublin which will substitute for any problems and can even appear in LHR or AMS if the weather causes issues

Shn99

Blue Air 737-400s YR-BAQ and YR-BAE are currently en route to Shannon for Aer Lingus, a third is due later.

California Dreamer

Shn99 wrote: »

Blue Air 737-400s YR-BAQ and YR-BAE are currently en route to Shannon for Aer Lingus, a third is due later.

I know this was mentioned a while back but whats the jazz with these aircraft for EI?

EICVD

California Dreamer wrote: »

I know this was mentioned a while back but whats the jazz with these aircraft for EI?

To be flown by ASL from ORK/SNN to release the Munster based A320s back to DUB, or something along those lines

Mebuntu

Titan B752 G-ZAPX arrived in DUB from STN this afternoon to operate for EI.

BZ

Shn99 wrote: »

Blue Air 737-400s YR-BAQ and YR-BAE are currently en route to Shannon for Aer Lingus, a third is due later.

Not these two. Heading to the U.S. off lease.

Shn99

Apolgies, Only passing on what i was told by a source close to EI.

goingnowhere

EI will not be operating any 737's

ASL might be in the market for wet lease with 737 for EI next Summer

Shn99

goingnowhere wrote: »

EI will not be operating any 737's

ASL might be in the market for wet lease with 737 for EI next Summer

Thats what I had meant to say.

Shn99

Have been told the same by 2 other sources, guess we will have to see what happens.

BZ

Shn99 wrote: »

Have been told the same by 2 other sources, guess we will have to see what happens.

They won't be from ASL if they are getting 737s.

Shn99

Is this for certain? I’ve just been told these will be going to the USA with N reg’s for storage until next year when they will return to ASL to operate for EI.

Locker10a

Shn99 wrote: »

Is this for certain? I’ve just been told these will be going to the USA with N reg’s for storage until next year when they will return to ASL to operate for EI.

Yeah makes sense I guess, they won’t be needed until next summer season.
Anyone know more about where they’ll operate to/from etc?

highlydebased

Shn99 wrote: »

Is this for certain? I’ve just been told these will be going to the USA with N reg’s for storage until next year when they will return to ASL to operate for EI.

I've just heard that too.

vectorvictor

Mebuntu wrote: »

Titan B752 G-ZAPX arrived in DUB from STN this afternoon to operate for EI.

Presumably for the 125 which is now 7+ hours delayed (and still on the ground).

Wonder why they bothered proceeding with hiring in, a bit pointless spending that money to have a plane load of people pissed off and who most likely could have been re accommodated through reroutes for the outbound and return at far less cost and a less substantial delay.

Although can only assume that the reason for the delay is the Titan machine going tech as it's been in Dublin since 2pm so I'm kind of answering my own question.

Mebuntu

vectorvictor wrote: »

Presumably for the 125 which is now 7+ hours delayed (and still on the ground).

EI125 finally rotated at 23.49 (8 hours late) operated by A332 EI-LAX.

Bussywussy

Lax was tech in Seattle so late back..the arrival of the 757 had nothing to do with this,it's in for expected shortage of crew this weekend,I believe a 767 is coming too

smurfjed

Are EI suffering that badly from flight crew shortages?

Bussywussy

smurfjed wrote: »

Are EI suffering that badly from flight crew shortages?

Yes,numerous Transatlantic flights cancelled over the last few weeks

smurfjed

.....

Doylers

Bussywussy wrote: »

smurfjed wrote: »

Are EI suffering that badly from flight crew shortages?

Yes,numerous Transatlantic  flights cancelled over the last few weeks

**Rubs hands hoping its flight crew shortages** Come on cadetship 2019

smurfjed

There has to be enough pilots willing to join EI, so are management just not hiring enough? Or is there another root cause?

smurfjed

But cadets wouldn't offer a solution until 2020 .

smurfjed

.........

goingnowhere

The A330 fleet is badly short due to the rapid growth. SEA/SFO/LAX all need a 3 person flight deck so require a senior first officer who is signed off to be in the left seat during the cruise.

Not everyone in the A320 fleet wants to fly TATL and EI isn't in the business of sending out 250 hour cadets on TATL.

Kcormahs

https://www.facebook.com/FlyCork/videos/1945160452229878/

approx at 5.40min

on the announcement it was mentioned that there will be an enhanced product on short haul called aer space with the re branding, in 2019. Wonder if the Aerspace idea is finally happening then.

alancostello

Kcormahs wrote: »

https://www.facebook.com/FlyCork/videos/1945160452229878/

approx at 5.40min

on the announcement it was mentioned that there will be an enhanced product on short haul called aer space with the re branding, in 2019. Wonder if the Aerspace idea is finally happening then.

I would imagine there'll have to be some type of Euro-J style product if they're to join the OneWorld JV, much harder to coordinate prices without comparable products.

Cityjet RJ is out with EI decals on it. It looks terrible. Small Aerlingus on forward fuselage and green shamrock placed well forward on vertical stabiliser clear of rudder.

Stevek101

Deleted User wrote: »

Cityjet RJ is out with EI decals on it. It looks terrible. Small Aerlingus on forward fuselage and green shamrock placed well forward on vertical stabiliser clear of rudder.

Probably no point in painting the full thing if the livery is changing in January.