Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

basill

Third party can't do anymore damage than in house does/continues to do!

I believe the voice of the guest has spoken and in particular the tech delays in BHD with no additional cover to give but one example. In managements view it's much easier to direct the blame at the feet of a third party than take ownership for the core issues.

Locker10a

basill wrote: »

I believe the voice of the guest has spoken and in particular the tech delays in BHD with no additional cover to give but one example. In managements view it's much easier to direct the blame at the feet of a third party than take ownership for the core issues.

Also I find the short haul ops to be reliable and product consistent. I guess they don’t want to dilute that. People who book Aer Lingus flights expect a green plane and green uniforms and so they should! If they want to boost summer capacity I’m all for that but keeping a consistent product is important

Tenger

Been told that the new livery will be out middle of January. An A330 is going down to France for C Check and getting the new paint job while there.
"IAG standard" was the description I was given.

sherology

Looking forward to it. Fingers crossed it has some degree of creativity... Sounds not (IAG std.).

Any news on the uniforms?

Happy Christmas to you all. Thanks for the stories... Interesting.

flanzer

Tenger wrote: »

Been told that the new livery will be out middle of January. An A330 is going down to France for C Check and getting the new paint job while there.
"IAG standard" was the description I was given.

Someone showed me it on a mobile phone. Essentially the 'Aer Lingus' is a different font (pantone looking), and the shamrock it more italic looking. Wasn't overly impressed considering some company is probably being paid a fortune to come up with it!

sherology

flanzer wrote: »

Someone showed me it on a mobile phone. Essentially the 'Aer Lingus' is a different font (pantone looking), and the shamrock it more italic looking. Wasn't overly impressed considering some company is probably being paid a fortune to come up with it!

Did you see it as part of the overall livery? Was the fuselage eurowhite or did they retain the current schema?

Bussywussy

flanzer wrote: »

Someone showed me it on a mobile phone. Essentially the 'Aer Lingus' is a different font (pantone looking), and the shamrock it more italic looking. Wasn't overly impressed considering some company is probably being paid a fortune to come up with it!

That's exactly what I heard from someone,sounded like it's gonna be white with green tail and a green stripe on aft fuselage....sounds revolting....EDY will be first A330 and I think DVM...both will be unveiled at same time...

john boye

Tenger wrote: »

Been told that the new livery will be out middle of January. An A330 is going down to France for C Check and getting the new paint job while there.
"IAG standard" was the description I was given.

"IAG standard" sounds ominous...

Gingham1

Fra-dub flight only half full tonight. They could downsize to a crj or erj and still service that route. Ryanair are shadowing their times and cut the arse out of it. This is a Friday evening flight just before Xmas. 21st December

VG31

Gingham1 wrote: »

Fra-dub flight only half full tonight. They could downsize to a crj or erj and still service that route. Ryanair are shadowing their times and cut the arse out of it. This is a Friday evening flight just before Xmas. 21st December

FRA and MUC seem to have too much capacity from Dublin. I flew to MUC with EI a few weeks back and the load was around 60%. LH back was around 95%.

LXFlyer

VG31 wrote: »

FRA and MUC seem to have too much capacity from Dublin. I flew to MUC with EI a few weeks back and the load was around 60%. LH back was around 95%.

Hardly surprising?
On both routes I would expect LH load factor to be highest given the connections .

Tenger

Gingham1 wrote: »

Fra-dub flight only half full tonight. They could downsize to a crj or erj and still service that route. Ryanair are shadowing their times and cut the arse out of it. This is a Friday evening flight just before Xmas. 21st December

Yup. Very quiet time of the year on a budiness reliant route.

Gingham1

Tenger wrote: »

Gingham1 wrote: »

Fra-dub flight only half full tonight. They could downsize to a crj or erj and still service that route. Ryanair are shadowing their times and cut the arse out of it. This is a Friday evening flight just before Xmas. 21st December

Yup. Very quiet time of the year on a budiness reliant route.

No. I expect that plane to be full of returning Paddies as it has been in previous years. There isn't enough for all three and Ryanair are winning the budget customers, lufthansa the business customer with not enough left for Aer lingus.

Hotblack Desiato

Bussywussy wrote: »

That's exactly what I heard from someone,sounded like it's gonna be white with green tail and a green stripe on aft fuselage....sounds revolting...

Ugh! Hope that's not the case.

Gingham1 wrote: »

Fra-dub flight only half full tonight. They could downsize to a crj or erj and still service that route. Ryanair are shadowing their times and cut the arse out of it. This is a Friday evening flight just before Xmas. 21st December

They would save money if they had several routes where it was worth their while running a fleet of CRJs or Embraers, but the odd lightly loaded flight on a common fleet of 320s can, when all things are taken into account, still make money. Ryanair don't run anything smaller than a 737-800 no matter how lightly loaded the route may be. Either it makes money on the existing type or it doesn't. They feel no need to introduce smaller 737s never mind other types in order to serve lower traffic routes. EI are already serving lower traffic routes through the Regional service but they outsource that. Regional is run by Stobart with ATRs and the flight times from Ireland on turboprop make sense to Britain, but not further afield.

Gingham1

If Ryanair keep eating EI's lunch in Europe then they could be forced to be an airline composed of 330s, 321s for long range and CRJs for Europe. If IAG is generous maybe A220s.

Donegal Storm

What happened to the long talked about agreement between the two? Seems every few months there's murmurs saying an announcement is imminent then nothing happens..

vectorvictor

Gingham1 wrote: »

If Ryanair keep eating EI's lunch in Europe then they could be forced to be an airline composed of 330s, 321s for long range and CRJs for Europe. If IAG is generous maybe A220s.

I think EI would be relatively happy with that outcome and be fed the rest if they can get the right commercials with someone like FR. Keeping guaranteed load factor key European routes like LHR and bucket and spade with marginal feeder routes being outsourced to RE or WX.

Their problem is complete over reliance on the North American market in the event of the economy tanking. They really need to look in other directions too and diversify long haul ops.

Van.Bosch

vectorvictor wrote: »

I think EI would be relatively happy with that outcome and be fed the rest if they can get the right commercials with someone like FR. Keeping guaranteed load factor key European routes like LHR and bucket and spade with marginal feeder routes being outsourced to RE or WX.

Their problem is complete over reliance on the North American market in the event of the economy tanking. They really need to look in other directions too and diversify long haul ops.

If the NA market tanks, the global economy will tank too. Having extra routes to Singapore, Cape Town or Bangkok for example won’t be any better than US routes.

duskyjoe

Van.Bosch wrote: »

If the NA market tanks, the global economy will talk too. Having extra routes to Singapore, Cape Town or Bangkok for example won’t be any better than US routes.

totally agree.

Tenger

vectorvictor wrote: »

..............
Their problem is complete over reliance on the North American market in the event of the economy tanking. They really need to look in other directions too and diversify long haul ops.

100% agree. I was with EI in the early 2000s. The impact of the US downturn post 9/11 was pretty spectacular. From chatting to staff there longer they could also remember the post 1991 Desert Storm drop in numbers as well.

Van.Bosch

Tenger wrote: »

100% agree. I was with EI in the early 2000s. The impact of the US downturn post 9/11 was pretty spectacular. From chatting to staff there longer they could also remember the post 1991 Desert Storm drop in numbers as well.

Agree but where could they operate that would insulate them from it? There is no point accepting lower returns for say eight years so that in the two downturn years you do less worse.

basill

Its basic business, diversify your risk. Most airlines do and it also smoothes out the seasonality of the business somewhat. They will never be able to shield themselves completely against a downturn but all of the competitors will be in the same boat so its a level enough playing field for the recovery. AL have always focussed on NA and appear to have zero interest in looking East or South. In the past 5 years they were asked to operate to the ME on possibly onwards for a shareholder. This was politely declined. Rejoining Oneworld was declined as well. The Chinese PM and a trade delegation visited Ireland and AL were asked by the Irish govt to start a route and were told no. Now we have Cathay and Hainan operating. There was other ACMI type work for the 330 in the winter as well over the past few years that was turned down. We are due a downturn soon. The only difference now is that under IAG the assets might get redeployed elsewhere in the group.

Van.Bosch

basill wrote: »

Its basic business, diversify your risk. Most airlines do and it also smoothes out the seasonality of the business somewhat. They will never be able to shield themselves completely against a downturn but all of the competitors will be in the same boat so its a level enough playing field for the recovery. AL have always focussed on NA and appear to have zero interest in looking East or South. In the past 5 years they were asked to operate to the ME on possibly onwards for a shareholder. This was politely declined. Rejoining Oneworld was declined as well. The Chinese PM and a trade delegation visited Ireland and AL were asked by the Irish govt to start a route and were told no. Now we have Cathay and Hainan operating. There was other ACMI type work for the 330 in the winter as well over the past few years that was turned down. We are due a downturn soon. The only difference now is that under IAG the assets might get redeployed elsewhere in the group.

Doubt HK or China would have worked for EI, so I don’t see that as a lost opportunity.

MIA is down from 3 to 2 per week so maybe the US demand isn’t constant and they will look elsewhere. I get the diversification point 100%, I’m just not sure where they should fly to achieve it.

Stephen Strange

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Doubt HK or China would have worked for EI, so I don’t see that as a lost opportunity.

MIA is down from 3 to 2 per week so maybe the US demand isn’t constant and they will look elsewhere. I get the diversification point 100%, I’m just not sure where they should fly to achieve it.

I never really understood MIA as a destination. MCO seemed more of a no brainer and loads seem better, I can't see the need for both really (with the exception of maybe taking some of the cruise ship traffic).

kevinandrew

MIA actually does okay load wise, it started off terribly (low 40s) but with some work by Aer Lingus it started to improve quite rapidly. I think the reduction is a combination of needing more spare capacity in peak summer and the fact it’s the weakest of a very strong bunch.


While 2 weekly is pretty poor, the peak summer months aren’t actually the most popular time to visit Miami, it’s stronger in winter and a gateway to all those winter cruises. The only problem is that’s all very low yielding so a lot of work is needed to keep it profitable, remember for years Orlando was classed as a charter before becoming a regular, year round scheduled service.

liiga

we might hear something on 7th of january 2019 about the new Aer Lingus Livery

jucylucy

Stumbled across a drawing ...white fuselage,green engines and fin with a new shamrock:) Nice!

liiga

jucylucy wrote: »

Stumbled across a drawing ...white fuselage,green engines and fin with a new shamrock:) Nice!

do u have picture of the new livery ?

jucylucy

Nope..couldn’t....similar tail pattern to LH new scheme.....looks good...

Kev11491

Where did you stumble across it?

L1011

Anything white fuselage based isn't "nice" in my eyes

JCX BXC

L1011 wrote: »

Anything white fuselage based isn't "nice" in my eyes

Agreed, a very stupid mistake by Aer Lingus if they go for a Euro-White livery. Removes alot of character in my eyes.

john boye

jucylucy wrote: »

Stumbled across a drawing ...white fuselage,green engines and fin with a new shamrock:) Nice!

If true, That's what pretty much everyone's expecting/dreading.

Hotblack Desiato

jucylucy wrote: »

Stumbled across a drawing ...white fuselage,green engines and fin with a new shamrock:) Nice!

That doesn't sound good.

john boye

Serious question, have any livery changes in recent years been well received? I'm sure some have but I can't think of any now. I know the KLM one went down well but that was more of an update than an all out livery change.

JCX BXC

john boye wrote: »

Serious question, have any livery changes in recent years been well received? I'm sure some have but I can't think of any now. I know the KLM one went down well but that was more of an update than an all out livery change.

No, but that's largely in part to they've all been going to Euro-White liverys for cost reasons.

kevinandrew

I'm surprised a new shamrock is being introduced, this means an entirely new colour pallet must be coming as well. It was said to be a "refresh" rather than a complete rebrand but with a new shamrock comes an entirely new look for the airline, everything from the check in desks, website, cabins, ground vehicles and marketing material will need changing and that can take years, sometimes a decade to complete.

It should however come as no surprise to see Aer Lingus go eurowhite, not only is it vastly cheaper but Aer Lingus has always followed the trends of the era and the current trend is white! Just look at the liveries over the years, none of them are entirely unique for their time, they're all very good individually but during their time there were dozens like them.

Aer Lingus and KLM have almost mirrored each other over the decades, the difference being is that KLM has given it's 90s livery minor updates to keep it fresh while Aer Lingus has reached a point where it feels the need for complete redesign and so it follows the crowd once again, and the crowd is wearing white.

Donegal Storm

Vietnam have one of the nicest liveries out there, would have been a fairly small tweak for EI to do something similar. Really disappointing to hear it's all but certain to be a white fuselage

Cookiemunster

Kev11491 wrote: »

Where did you stumble across it?

It was posted on this thread a while back. Not sure it was official though. Still hope (but doubt) that it wasn't.

sherology

Maybe the LRs will be late. Airbus can't catch a break these last few years. https://m.dw.com/en/airbus-jet-delays-likely-after-fire-at-german-plant/a-46890711

Bussywussy

Cookiemunster wrote: »

It was posted on this thread a while back. Not sure it was official though. Still hope (but doubt) that it wasn't.

more than likely a planespotters wet dream

MICKEYG

Please no to eurowhite. One of the great pleasures of a week away with work is arriving at the airport to see the familiar green bird waiting there.
Not a financial reason to keep it but there must be some significant hidden value in having a brand so recognizable.

IngazZagni

john boye wrote: »

Serious question, have any livery changes in recent years been well received? I'm sure some have but I can't think of any now. I know the KLM one went down well but that was more of an update than an all out livery change.

KLM only did an update because that was all that was needed. I would argue that that's all that Aer Lingus need too. A KLM style refresh.
It will be a real shame if Aer Lingus go for a euro white trash livery.

Personally I like Easyjets new livery, American Airlines and Etihad have a great new improved livery too.
Iberia has got to be one of the worst new paint schemes in recent times though and they're IAG...

sandbelter

interesting article re going Eurowhite:

An "All white" colour scheme costs appears to much as "all green"..." It’s not that different paints cost dramatically different dependant on the colour, but it is the complexity of the designs that adds extra time to the painting process, meaning aircraft are on the ground for longer, not generating revenue for the airline."

Source: https://thedesignair.net/2017/02/11/end-of-the-plain-plane-has-the-eurowhite-livery-hit-critical-mass/

Comhrá

“We will still be green”: Aer Lingus gets ready to rebrand

http://www.travelweek.ca/blog/we-will-still-be-green-aer-lingus-gets-ready-to-rebrand/?fbclid=IwAR06-0KDup8yB2yLnHnvm--9LLI44-chmrjjeGf4KbP_jEGZSEYiicaoh_4

Locker10a

Did anyone fly with EI over Xmas and notice they’d done away with Xmas boarding music? Maybe I was just unlucky but on my flights the boarding music wasn’t the usual Xmas songs they’d normally play this time of year !?

NSAman

Locker10a wrote: »

Did anyone fly with EI over Xmas and notice they’d done away with Xmas boarding music? Maybe I was just unlucky but on my flights the boarding music wasn’t the usual Xmas songs they’d normally play this time of year !?

Flew TA on Friday night before Christmas it was there...

liiga

Dose anyone think the new livery will look like level airlines livery ?

Comhrá

liiga wrote: »

Does anyone think the new livery will look like level airlines livery ?

No, it can't possibly be as bad as Level

liiga

Comhra wrote: »

No, it can't possibly be as bad as Level

I would imagine iag would want to add new aerlingus livery to match other airlines in iag group

So I would say alot of euro white body with green tail and big green letter around the windows