Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

Tenger

NH2013 wrote: »

Anyone know yet if the 321Neo will operate the new MSP route? It's still showing the 757 in the booking engine though I've also heard talk of it being an A330 route initially due the runway length in Dublin until the new North Runway opens.

Company statement was that MSP would launch with B757, Montreal with the A321LR. A later statement announced Hartford would get A321LR from July 1st.

B757s are supposed to leave service Summer 2020, thus current B757 routes will transition to A321LR once they get more airframes (think it’s 3 this year and 5 in 2020)

I would guess that long term plan is for some successful A321LR route to upgrade to A330. Others may benefit more from multiple A321LR services, BOS and JFK perhaps?

cluane

Will EI be getting A330neo aircraft or will the current ones be replaced by the A350? Also, will they get the A320neo?

NH2013

cluane wrote: »

Will EI be getting A330neo aircraft or will the current ones be replaced by the A350? Also, will they get the A320neo?

Two 330neos on order for delivery next year apparently, no talk officially on the 320Neo but it would follow that eventually the 320Ceo fleet would be rolled over and replaced by Neo engines.

kevinandrew

cluane wrote: »

Will EI be getting A330neo aircraft or will the current ones be replaced by the A350? Also, will they get the A320neo?

No firm plans for any of the above at the moment. 

Current long haul fleet plan is: 14 A321LR + 16 A330s by 2023, after that is anyone's guess. The short haul fleet will need renewal eventually but it's not urgent, the A320neo is the most likely replacement when the time comes but absolutely nothing has been said publicly about this.

alancostello

NH2013 wrote: »

Two 330neos on order for delivery next year apparently, no talk officially on the 320Neo but it would follow that eventually the 320Ceo fleet would be rolled over and replaced by Neo engines.

I know IAG had said they were mulling the neo for future A330 orders, but hadn't seen anything about it confirmed? If anything I would have thought more ex-QR birds or others like them would be the source of additions to the fleet.

kevinandrew

At the rebrand the head of fleet planning confirmed two additional A330s would join next year, he made no reference to them being the NEO variant or if they would be new builds or second hand. IAG has a grand total of zero orders for the A330neo so I think it's very unlikely it's coming to Aer Lingus anytime soon. 

Hopefully the two additional A330s due next year are new builds or if they are second hand, they get a cabin refit before entering service, that ex-Qatar A330 has been getting pretty poor reviews from passengers, particularly those sitting up front.

alancostello

kevinandrew wrote: »

At the rebrand the head of fleet planning confirmed two additional A330s would join next year, he made no reference to them being the NEO variant or if they would be new builds or second hand. IAG has a grand total of zero orders for the A330neo so I think it's very unlikely it's coming to Aer Lingus anytime soon. 

Hopefully the two additional A330s due next year are new builds or if they are second hand, they get a cabin refit before entering service, that ex-Qatar A330 has been getting pretty poor reviews from passengers, particularly those sitting up front.

EI-GEY doesn't seem to have flown yesterday or today, I wonder is it finally gone in for refitting, it was supposed to happen before the beginning of the summer season from what I remember.

Tenger

cluane wrote: »

Will EI be getting A330neo aircraft or will the current ones be replaced by the A350? Also, will they get the A320neo?

1;Probably at some point.
2;Not for at least 10 years.
3;Probably at some point.

kevinandrew

alancostello wrote: »

EI-GEY doesn't seem to have flown yesterday or today, I wonder is it finally gone in for refitting, it was supposed to happen before the beginning of the summer season from what I remember.

Hope so. It had been confined to the IAD route for months, which tells you everything you need to know about the yields to IAD but recently it's had more varied missions with it turning up anywhere between YYZ and MIA.

flange888

Two new A330's CEO one due November this year the other early next year both new builds exact same spec as GAJ and GCF

kevinandrew

flange888 wrote: »

Two new A330's CEO one due November this year the other early next year both new builds exact same spec as GAJ and GCF

Great news. Thanks for the info.

Mahony0509

Would really love to see an A350 with Aer Lingus. So much opportunity with one of those, beautiful birds too.

alancostello

Mahony0509 wrote: »

Would really love to see an A350 with Aer Lingus. So much opportunity with one of those, beautiful birds too.

It'll come eventually I'd say, currently no real specific need for it, A332s and the HGW A330s can serve the longest routes in EI's portfolio, and range is the biggest benefit the A350 would bring from an operational standpoint.

I'd imagine they'd prefer to increase capacity through higher frequency rather than larger aircraft, as it allows them to tailor it more to seasonal variability (Chicago as an example, has had triple daily A330 service during peak summer, while currently it's doing one daily a330 and the second daily alternates between 757 and a330, and it has been as low as single daily a330 in past winters).

If EI decide to introduce Premium Economy or they see an increase in Business Class traffic and need bigger J cabins the A350 might prove more useful, otherwise you're looking at a lot more economy seats to fill in the off season than you'd have on an A330.

Third_Echelon

flange888 wrote: »

Two new A330's CEO one due November this year the other early next year both new builds exact same spec as GAJ and GCF

Good to hear! I've flown on both and the cabin product is so much nicer... seatback USB charging ports for one thing...

Locker10a

alancostello wrote: »

EI-GEY doesn't seem to have flown yesterday or today, I wonder is it finally gone in for refitting, it was supposed to happen before the beginning of the summer season from what I remember.

I could be wrong but I think it’s sitting outside Hangar 6, not sure what for, but doesn't look like if it’s having a refit

Bussywussy

GEY will go for maintenance when EDY is finished in BOD

Van.Bosch

Is the first EI A321LR due in July? If so, when would this start on the airbus production line?

alancostello

Davydout wrote: »

Will they get 777Xs to replace the A330s?

For the same reasons they're not getting the A350s (and others), no, at least not for the foreseeable future.

Marcusm

Davydout wrote: »

Will they get 777Xs to replace the A330s?

More likely get 744s.

Shn99

WX Avro EI RJI flew to Rome FCO today for painting into full cs.

Jack1985

Are you sure it was RJH? I believe that's the frame sold to a company in Canada where the aircraft currently is..

Shn99

RJI, apologies

cson

kevinandrew wrote: »

Hope so. It had been confined to the IAD route for months, which tells you everything you need to know about the yields to IAD but recently it's had more varied missions with it turning up anywhere between YYZ and MIA.

The EI time ex IAD is horrendous, 5pm vs the 10pm UA offer.

You basically don't sleep on the Europe bound flight, and arrival into Dublin is typically 5am which means you can't check into a hotel room, plus you'll be knackered and want to sleep.

That's aside from having to take a half day to make the flight vs UA's late departure.

UA 10pm-10am is ideal.

alancostello

cson wrote: »

The EI time ex IAD is horrendous, 5pm vs the 10pm UA offer.

You basically don't sleep on the Europe bound flight, and arrival into Dublin is typically 5am which means you can't check into a hotel room, plus you'll be knackered and want to sleep.

That's aside from having to take a half day to make the flight vs UA's late departure.

UA 10pm-10am is ideal.

The earlier arrival is however much better for connecting onwards. UA isn't prioritising for connecting traffic.

Locker10a

cson wrote: »

The EI time ex IAD is horrendous, 5pm vs the 10pm UA offer.

You basically don't sleep on the Europe bound flight, and arrival into Dublin is typically 5am which means you can't check into a hotel room, plus you'll be knackered and want to sleep.

That's aside from having to take a half day to make the flight vs UA's late departure.

UA 10pm-10am is ideal.

But surly EI’s 5am arrival is the most ideal for onward connecting traffic who’ll be in time for most of the first wave of Euro departures.

Jack1985

EI's Long Haul program is scheduled to maximize options for connections. EI101/119/129 etc are examples of this... lunchtime departure westbound, early arrival eastbound. Once a route can support a double daily rotation, the schedule typically improves as connections can be easily accommodated.

Shamrockj

cson wrote: »

The EI time ex IAD is horrendous, 5pm vs the 10pm UA offer.

You basically don't sleep on the Europe bound flight, and arrival into Dublin is typically 5am which means you can't check into a hotel room, plus you'll be knackered and want to sleep.

That's aside from having to take a half day to make the flight vs UA's late departure.

UA 10pm-10am is ideal.

The majority of EI's east bound flights operate at this time. It maximises connections. I personally find the jet lag not as bad either as you can go to bed when you land for a few hours

Noxegon

cson wrote: »

UA 10pm-10am is ideal.

We have a different definition of ideal.

I’d like a 10am-10pm flight so I can go to bed when I land!

basill

You will probably get something similar to that when the 321NEOs arrive and add additional capacity to the East Coast during peak times. 103 etc. Watch this space though as no one knows what their detailed plans for the new aircraft are.

Van.Bosch

Quarterly results for IAG show 8 A321LR neo groupwide In 2023, so if EI is taking 12 they must still be options.

cson

alancostello wrote: »

The earlier arrival is however much better for connecting onwards. UA isn't prioritising for connecting traffic.

Locker10a wrote: »

But surly EI’s 5am arrival is the most ideal for onward connecting traffic who’ll be in time for most of the first wave of Euro departures.

Jack1985 wrote: »

EI's Long Haul program is scheduled to maximize options for connections. EI101/119/129 etc are examples of this... lunchtime departure westbound, early arrival eastbound. Once a route can support a double daily rotation, the schedule typically improves as connections can be easily accommodated.

Shamrockj wrote: »

The majority of EI's east bound flights operate at this time. It maximises connections. I personally find the jet lag not as bad either as you can go to bed when you land for a few hours

Alright alright :pac:

Let me clarify; the Europe bound timing is absolutely horrible for O&D.

Van.Bosch

Shn99 wrote: »

WX Avro EI RJH flew to Rome FCO today for painting into full cs.

How long does it take to paint an Avro?

micosoft

cson wrote: »

The EI time ex IAD is horrendous, 5pm vs the 10pm UA offer.

You basically don't sleep on the Europe bound flight, and arrival into Dublin is typically 5am which means you can't check into a hotel room, plus you'll be knackered and want to sleep.

That's aside from having to take a half day to make the flight vs UA's late departure.

UA 10pm-10am is ideal.

Meh, I take it this week.

Like everything it depends.

For business you do sleep on a lie flat. Arrive and shower revive lounge. In Dublin for meetings at 9am. Works for me and a lot of folk.

Tenger

Shn99 wrote: »

WX Avro EI RJI flew to Rome FCO today for painting into full cs.

Can we really call the new livery a "full colourscheme"!!!!

Tenger

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Is the first EI A321LR due in July? If so, when would this start on the airbus production line?

Here is a handy link to check every now and then:
https://www.planespotters.net/production-list/Airbus/A321?p=37


I believe the 1st A321LR should be delivered last week of June. As its due to operate DUB-BDL on July 1st. I think it takes 6-8 weeks to assemble an aircraft, open to correction on that.

thedigger96

Van.Bosch wrote: »

How long does it take to paint an Avro?

Due back the 7th

Cloudio9

Tenger wrote: »

Here is a handy link to check every now and then:
https://www.planespotters.net/production-list/Airbus/A321?p=37


I believe the 1st A321LR should be delivered last week of June. As its due to operate DUB-BDL on July 1st. I think it takes 6-8 weeks to assemble an aircraft, open to correction on that.

Is there not a whole lot of crew training involved with a new type in the fleet?

EchoIndia

Cloudio9 wrote: »

Is there not a whole lot of crew training involved with a new type in the fleet?

From a crew licensing and training point of view I doubt it is an entirely new type, but no doubt others can clarify.

goingnowhere

Its a difference course, due the new engines, fuel system with the extra tanks and the winglets (handling difference). That can all be classroom. Beyond that it's a A320.

EI's A320 crews already have oceanic ops training and use CPDLC so flying TATL won't be a big shift.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a A321 and the aux tanks refitted doing a spin or two to Greenland doing the clearances over HF as the CPDLC is VHF only on the EI A320/1's to get some practice in. Alternatively you just fly over in the jump seat to BOS/JFK/IAD/EWR.

Cloudio9

EchoIndia wrote: »

From a crew licensing and training point of view I doubt it is an entirely new type, but no doubt others can clarify.

Right but I imagine there are differences that require some level of training for pilots, cabin crew, engineering

Locker10a

Cloudio9 wrote: »

Right but I imagine there are differences that require some level of training for pilots, cabin crew, engineering

Yes but nothing like a whole new aircraft type! For cabin crew they’ll be a new configuration to learn, new equipment locations, and possibly one a new exit type they’ll have to learn, and that’s about it.
The biggest change/training will indeed be for engineering who’ll be dealing with a brand new type of engine

Cloudio9

Locker10a wrote: »

Yes but nothing like a whole new aircraft type! For cabin crew they’ll be a new configuration to learn, new equipment locations, and possibly one a new exit type they’ll have to learn, and that’s about it.
The biggest change/training will indeed be for engineering who’ll be dealing with a brand new type of engine

Thanks so is it credible they only receive the first aircraft a week or so before it enters revenue service?

Tenger

Cloudio9 wrote: »

Thanks so is it credible they only receive the first aircraft a week or so before it enters revenue service?

I’m thinking it is as it’s merely a new iteration of an existing type.
I’m guessing some EI engineers are already getting training on the new engine, or at least planned to do so in April/May.
Flight crew wise, as stated above EI already have oceanic comms so no need to get familiar with that. I’m sure some procedures are changed with the extra fuel tank. I’m guessing a bit of sim time will meet requirements for familiarisation?
Cabin crew; I saw an article online a couple of weeks ago about EI signing a contract for a “door trainer” to be installed in their training facility. I assume this covers any required training. It would make sense for the interior setup (apart from the business class seats) to mimic the existing A321LR setup.
Ground crew; it’s the same as existing A321s so no need to change ground ops handling procedures.

Jamie2k9

Tenger wrote: »

Here is a handy link to check every now and then:
https://www.planespotters.net/production-list/Airbus/A321?p=37


I believe the 1st A321LR should be delivered last week of June. As its due to operate DUB-BDL on July 1st. I think it takes 6-8 weeks to assemble an aircraft, open to correction on that.

Isnt the first due late April/May?

Bussywussy

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Isnt the first due late April/May?

I heard first 2 weeks of June

Idbatterim

Walsh: right jets will drive Aer Lingus growth

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/walsh-right-jets-will-drive-aer-lingus-growth-37866264.html

Tenger

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Isnt the first due late April/May?

Im not 100%. Going on online articles and 2nd hand info from EI mates.
Q2 was original plan but Im led to believe that delayed till latter part due engine delays. ('Q2' being April-June)

Schedule shows July 1st as first A321LR revenue flight. Could well be planned to operate before then though. Just not set in stone on schedule.

Shamrockj

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/aer-lingus-evaluating-15-destinations-for-new-north-american-routes-1.3809575?mode=amp

Not sure if this has been posted already. 15 routes are being shortlisted once the aircraft arrive. Lots coming this year and next so I'm sure we will see plenty happening.

basill

For flight crew there will be a short ground school course to cover differences and brush up on Oceanic Procedures from what I understand and no additional sim training required. Ordinary line pilots (OLPs) are unlikely to see the aircraft for months as it will be necessary to secure initially the route approvals and then training the trainers. Then they will tag along on a trip and sign off the OLPs - in essence a bit of a line check.

There may well be some changes for ground ops as I was under the impression that with the additional fuel tanks (essentially upstanding bladders/plastic tanks) that the standard ULDs will no longer fit in the holds. Hence Airbus is providing a flooring system that covers the rollers to prevent damage but it will require manual loading of bags.

Nothing has been published as yet for how its all going to operate and I wouldn't expect to see anything till much closer to the time.

alancostello

basill wrote: »

There may well be some changes for ground ops as I was under the impression that with the additional fuel tanks (essentially upstanding bladders/plastic tanks) that the standard ULDs will no longer fit in the holds. Hence Airbus is providing a flooring system that covers the rollers to prevent damage but it will require manual loading of bags.

Nothing has been published as yet for how its all going to operate and I wouldn't expect to see anything till much closer to the time.

As far as I'm aware you can still use containerised luggage with the ACTs, the problem is that you don't have as much capacity as you would if you bulk load.