Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

NH2013

*Rumour*

Just heard that in addition to the two brand new A330s on the Airbus order books, two more A330-300s to be leased by Aer Lingus, apparently from Jet Airways in India which collapsed last month.

Van.Bosch

NH2013 wrote: »

*Rumour*

Just heard that in addition to the two brand new A330s on the Airbus order books, two more A330-300s to be leased by Aer Lingus, apparently from Jet Airways in India which collapsed last month.

That’d be a lot of growth in a small window. Could allow new routes or possibly speed up ending the 757, although would be a huge increase in seats if not needed.

I hope they have lie flat business class seats, not sure we could handle another EI-GEY situation!

NH2013

Van.Bosch wrote: »

That’d be a lot of growth in a small window. Could allow new routes or possibly speed up ending the 757, although would be a huge increase in seats if not needed.

I hope they have lie flat business class seats, not sure we could handle another EI-GEY situation!

From what I heard it looks like EI-EWR is coming off lease in the spring, so one would be used to replace it with a larger -300 and the others would be for growth.

Van.Bosch

NH2013 wrote: »

From what I heard it looks like EI-EWR is coming off lease in the spring, so one would be used to replace it with a larger -300 and the others would be for growth.

Wonder would they bring Montréal back to an earlier launch.

California Dreamer

Nice rumour too considering they are the same engines as EI which is rare enough itself.

Nijmegen

Van.Bosch wrote: »

That’d be a lot of growth in a small window. Could allow new routes or possibly speed up ending the 757, although would be a huge increase in seats if not needed.

I hope they have lie flat business class seats, not sure we could handle another EI-GEY situation!

I think that EI and IAG have explicitly said EI TATL growth is basically down to getting the right frames at the right price during an era of relative scarcity thanks to the overall growth in the market.

Tenger

So current public plan is 3 A321LR late summer. 2 A333 over the winter and the other 5 A321LR in Q2-3 2020.
And you say 2 more A330s, 1 to replace, one to expand?

Thats a big bump in seat numbers.
Was it 2018 or '17 that EI boasted about a 17% increase in TA capacity. Looks like 2020 will be similar if not greater.
(Currently 4x B757, 5x A332, 8x A333)

Elemonator

Does anybody know the situation with the Airbus A350's?

Karl8415

NH2013 wrote: »

*Rumour*

Just heard that in addition to the two brand new A330s on the Airbus order books, two more A330-300s to be leased by Aer Lingus, apparently from Jet Airways in India which collapsed last month.

If that’s the case it’s very exciting news, when jet airways collapsed I looked at their fleet and the A330-300 in particular and their young enough frames they were averaging 2012/2015 built so EI would get a lot of service out of them.
I remember Willie Walsh not too long ago saying if the right aircraft came up for the right price then iag would examine it but at that time he was referring too secondhand A380’s for BA but seems like that extends now for the other airlines in the group.
I just hope that with these ex jet airways frames are not rushed into service and instead are given the time to be completely adapted to EI spec internally

Tenger

Elemonator wrote: »

Does anybody know the situation with the Airbus A350's?

Yes. Aer L8ngus arent getting any. IAG took over their order. Already a number have been allocsted to Iberia.
EI metal in the near future will be A320/A321LR/A333.

A330neo may appear in 3-5 years with A350 maybe 3-5 years after that. (Prob after Airbus launch their future A350neo!!)

Elemonator

Tenger wrote: »

Yes. Aer L8ngus arent getting any. IAG took over their order. Already a number have been allocsted to Iberia.
EI metal in the near future will be A320/A321LR/A333.

A330neo may appear in 3-5 years with A350 maybe 3-5 years after that. (Prob after Airbus launch their future A350neo!!)

Thanks. I know its all business but that is a shame, would have been nice to see 350's in EI colours.

Kev11491

Van.Bosch wrote: »

That’d be a lot of growth in a small window. Could allow new routes or possibly speed up ending the 757, although would be a huge increase in seats if not needed.

I hope they have lie flat business class seats, not sure we could handle another EI-GEY situation!

Same seats as EI and I think they also have 1-1-1 herringbone.

goingnowhere

Elemonator wrote: »

Thanks. I know its all business but that is a shame, would have been nice to see 350's in EI colours.

The big A350 model is still hanging from the ceiling of the Dublin lounge

Irish Steve

OK, maybe it's just the day that's in it, This is the Aer Lingus Fleet discussion thread, NOT the rumours about speculations thread, and I for one have had enough of the trolling about Las Vegas.

The ONLY place I want to see discussions about Las Vegas until there is an official announcement from Aer Lingus is the Dublin Routes thread, ANY OTHER threads polluted by Las Vegas trolling will result in infractions or bans, there's fun, humour and trolling, and Las Vegas has degenerated to trolling levels at this stage, and I have better things to do with my time than constantly read the same regurgitations of a subject that for the forseeable future is dead.

Jamie2k9

Post elsewhere suggesting EI might be in line for a few Jet Airways A330s. The A333 fleet are about 6.5 years old while A332 are more like 10-12. Would do well to secure the 3 300 versions.

Bussywussy

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Post elsewhere suggesting EI might be in line for a few Jet Airways A330s. The A333 fleet are about 6.5 years old while A332 are more like 10-12. Would do well to secure the 3 300 versions.

I heard last week 2 are lined up....can ya imagine the countless posts here about cabin reconfigs .....be a grand standby cover if they could get them quick

alancostello

Do people not read the earlier posts in the thread? This was literally discussed this morning. And I'm assuming the 'elsewhere' is Airliners.net, which referenced that same original post from this morning.

Jamie2k9

alancostello wrote: »

Do people not read the earlier posts in the thread? This was literally discussed this morning. And I'm assuming the 'elsewhere' is Airliners.net, which referenced that same original post from this morning.

Usually but when there is a Mod warning I don't bother...

alancostello

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Usually but when there is a Mod warning I don't bother...

Fair enough, anyway, there are 4 in their former fleet, but the earlier post only mentioned two for EI. With two new builds coming later in the year I can't imagine they're getting 6 total new A330s on top of the A321LRs, unless EI are trying to emulate Etihad and grow completely unsustainably.

Jamie2k9

alancostello wrote: »

Fair enough, anyway, there are 4 in their former fleet, but the earlier post only mentioned two for EI. With two new builds coming later in the year I can't imagine they're getting 6 total new A330s on top of the A321LRs, unless EI are trying to emulate Etihad and grow completely unsustainably.

Planespotters.net indicate 2 transferred to CDB Aviation so could be those ones.

https://m.planespotters.net/airline/Jet-Airways

alancostello

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Planespotters.net indicate 2 transferred to CDB Aviation so could be those ones.

https://m.planespotters.net/airline/Jet-Airways

Likely the original lessor on those aircraft, probably nothing more than a transfer back to the original owner. None of the IAG group have leased from CDB before, and looking at their customer list there are likely a number of airlines who would be able to integrate those birds. That’s not to say IAG won’t become a customer, but it’s not exactly a given.

NH2013

The talk I'd heard was that they were two GECAS owned frames that had been signed for by Aer Lingus, haven't heard anything about whether they'd be given the full Aer Lingus kit out and used to launch new routes or if they'd keep their Jet Airways cabins and be used as spares for the time being.

They're apparently booked in for C-Check maintenance as we speak prior to handover so the potential exists to switch them to Aer Lingus standard when that happens, though if the talk surrounding GEY is to be believed there's a global shortage of business class seats at the moment so they may keep the 9W cabin, on the other hand if one is used to replace EI-EWR then perhaps EWRs cabin could be used in one of the new aircraft.

alancostello

NH2013 wrote: »

The talk I'd heard was that they were two GECAS owned frames that had been signed for by Aer Lingus, haven't heard anything about whether they'd be given the full Aer Lingus kit out and used to launch new routes or if they'd keep their Jet Airways cabins and be used as spares for the time being.

They're apparently booked in for C-Check maintenance as we speak prior to handover so the potential exists to switch them to Aer Lingus standard when that happens, though if the talk surrounding GEY is to be believed there's a global shortage of business class seats at the moment so they may keep the 9W cabin, on the other hand if one is used to replace EI-EWR then perhaps EWRs cabin could be used in one of the new aircraft.

If they're the GECAS frames they're VT-JWU and VT-JWR, both -300s with J seats very close to EI, basically just the orientation is flipped (with single seats on the right and pairs/thrones on the left), a reupholstering similar to what EI-GEY got would actually work quite well. Both are -300s too so the -200 cabin from EWR wouldn't work without reconfiguration and additions.

They also have 4 additional J seats over EI's current planes, with double the count on throne seats which I'm sure some would rejoice at.

HTCOne

3 extra A330s? But sure they can’t even crew the ones they have already?

Bussywussy

HTCOne wrote: »

3 extra A330s? But sure they can’t even crew the ones they have already?

4 A330s plus 1 retirement....well what management want and what they get is another issue and it's not just crew

HTCOne

Bussywussy wrote: »

4 A330s plus 1 retirement....well what management want and what they get is another issue and it's not just crew

Then however many extra 321LRs too....it's a good thing there's plenty of Crew and Marshallers and Baggage Handlers and gates and apron space already, I mean imagine if lack of these was already causing delays on the winter schedule before the addition of all these new aircra......oh.

sherology

When would rumor (all of the above) be confirmed as reality?

Would it make sense to replace all the -200s with the 2 newbies and 2 proported Jet airways leases?

In Toronto on EI-DAA... Perfectly fine aircraft... Toilets though show the frames age... Ick. May be time/opportunitically-the-time to flip to all -300? Would part-solve the crew issue also... Expand seats, not frames.

Anywho... Do let us know if it turns out to be true.

alancostello

sherology wrote: »

When would rumor (all of the above) be confirmed as reality?

Would it make sense to replace all the -200s with the 2 newbies and 2 proported Jet airways leases?

In Toronto on EI-DAA... Perfectly fine aircraft... Toilets though show the frames age... Ick. May be time/opportunitically-the-time to flip to all -300? Would part-solve the crew issue also... Expand seats, not frames.

Anywho... Do let us know if it turns out to be true.

There are a couple of ways to know the ex Jet Airways frames are joining EI, the first would be that the aircraft shows up on property at DUB, the second is that we see the registration change, the third is that EI confirm they’re getting them, the fourth is that they show up in the EI livery somewhere while getting their C-check, and finally we could get a leak from someone at EI that they’re coming (though that is taken at face value until one of the others occurs). Until one or some of those things happen we won’t have any type of confirmation, and all of those could happen up to days before entering service, maybe weeks.

The two new birds are already on the Airbus production list so at a minimum we know they’re coming.

goingnowhere

EWR is a -200 but can only run -300 routes due lack of crew rest and is a bit of an odd ball, same for GEY. Get rid of them ASAP and get a -300

The two new -300's should be HGW with crew rest so can cover LAX/SFO/SEA, that gives 4 -300 to cover 3 9+ hour destinations

Add in the need for a on the ground spare hull in Dublin to avoid the pain of a tech issue messing the schedule up, would likely be a -200.

The A321's might get replaced by the incoming A321LR's. But in this game its all about numbers, leases and so on. EI own the A321's outright as well as EI-LAX and EI-DAA so likely to retain them until the very end. LAX got a complete interior refresh this year so isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

Bussywussy

HTCOne wrote: »

Then however many extra 321LRs too....it's a good thing there's plenty of Crew and Marshallers and Baggage Handlers and gates and apron space already, I mean imagine if lack of these was already causing delays on the winter schedule before the addition of all these new aircra......oh.

Haha very true add engineers to that little list too

Bussywussy

goingnowhere wrote: »

EWR is a -200 but can only run -300 routes due lack of crew rest and is a bit of an odd ball, same for GEY. Get rid of them ASAP and get a -300

The two new -300's should be HGW with crew rest so can cover LAX/SFO/SEA, that gives 4 -300 to cover 3 9+ hour destinations

Add in the need for a on the ground spare hull in Dublin to avoid the pain of a tech issue messing the schedule up, would likely be a -200.

The A321's might get replaced by the incoming A321LR's. But in this game its all about numbers, leases and so on. EI own the A321's outright as well as EI-LAX and EI-DAA so likely to retain them until the very end. LAX got a complete interior refresh this year so isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

LAX didn't get an interior refresh,it's the same...only difference it went for a maintenance check and got cleaned up,it's between LAX and EWR to leave and that hasn't been decided the last I heard....it'll be a financial decision of lease VS repairs on damage LAX got year before last.GEY will get it's crew rest provision activated in November when the cabin reconfig is done

sandbelter

goingnowhere wrote: »

EWR is a -200 but can only run -300 routes due lack of crew rest and is a bit of an odd ball, same for GEY. Get rid of them ASAP and get a -300

The two new -300's should be HGW with crew rest so can cover LAX/SFO/SEA, that gives 4 -300 to cover 3 9+ hour destinations

Add in the need for a on the ground spare hull in Dublin to avoid the pain of a tech issue messing the schedule up, would likely be a -200.

There is a need for -200's though. Stephen Kavanagh before he left nominated 8 cities on EI's wish list, four of them are 9 hour + (which my understanding of the chat on range is A321xlr territory). '300's might be a bit big to launch to some of these cities.

Sk's interview: https://www.thejournal.ie/aer-lingus-new-canada-flights-2-4234167-Sep2018/

NH2013

sandbelter wrote: »

There is a need for -200's though. Stephen Kavanagh before he left nominated 8 cities on EI's wish list, four of them are 9 hour + (which my understanding of the chat on range is A321xlr territory). '300's might be a bit big to launch to some of these cities.

Sk's interview: https://www.thejournal.ie/aer-lingus-new-canada-flights-2-4234167-Sep2018/

Fuel burn difference between -200 and -300 is negligible, the original reason for the -200 was purely down to range, with about a 6t reduction in empty weight and the addition of a center fuel tank, however with the same crew complement required, and the same overflight fees based on MTOW, now that the A330-300 has pretty much caught up in range there's almost no real need for the -200, as indicated by most new orders over the past few years being for A330-300s since the 242t A330-300 has been available.

HTCOne

The A319/B737 have flopped for the same reason in recent years, and their NEO/MAX equivalents are sales disasters. The saving in fuel is negligible compared to the lost capacity and increased complexity in fleet planning etc.

The B788 is suffering a similar fate now vs the B789, and the A338 is the most glaring example.

alancostello

HTCOne wrote: »

The A319/B737 have flopped for the same reason in recent years, and their NEO/MAX equivalents are sales disasters. The saving in fuel is negligible compared to the lost capacity and increased complexity in fleet planning etc.

The B788 is suffering a similar fate now vs the B789, and the A338 is the most glaring example.

People seem to forget that the A319 came out 8 years after the original A320, and most deliveries were in the early 2000s so airlines aren't yet considering their replacement as they are for their older A320ceo. Not having many current orders does not mean the A319neo is or will be a flop.

The fact is there were 1,470 A319s delivered (with 1,443 still operational), while the A321 has 1,687 delivered (with 1,665 still operational), a difference of less than 13%, and I don't see anyone calling the A321 a flop? The A319 is valuable to many airlines, EasyJet, the US3, BA, let alone the dozens sold as ACJs.

HTCOne

alancostello wrote: »

People seem to forget that the A319 came out 8 years after the original A320, and most deliveries were in the early 2000s so airlines aren't yet considering their replacement as they are for their older A320ceo. Not having many current orders does not mean the A319neo is or will be a flop.

The fact is there were 1,470 A319s delivered (with 1,443 still operational), while the A321 has 1,687 delivered (with 1,665 still operational), a difference of less than 13%, and I don't see anyone calling the A321 a flop? The A319 is valuable to many airlines, EasyJet, the US3, BA, let alone the dozens sold as ACJs.

In recent years airlines have been phasing out A319s in favour of 320s/321s. There's been a general move towards larger aircraft for a number of reasons, such as scope clauses, capacity issues both en-route and at the airfields, pilot shortages and the general health of the aviation market. The 319ceo offers a roughly 12% fuel saving for a roughly 20% reduction in capacity vs the 320ceo. When the market is healthy it doesn't make financial sense to make that sacrifice, especially if you have the scale to justify a second fleet e.g. A220 or Embraer E2 in conjunction with your 737/320 fleet.

If the market tanks, maybe we'll see a resurgence in 319/737 sales. For now the market has spoken...A319neo orders: 55, A320neo orders: 4154, A321neo: 2292

ohigg84

I think having a mixed A330-200/300 fleet is sensible.

During the winter/early spring season, the load factors to San Francisco for example, would only require an A332 to be operated, and thus, this has served EI pretty well.

Towards Apr-Oct/Nov, it is usually operated by A333's GAJ and GCF, and occasionally an A332 (DAA, DUO, LAX).

Tenger

This hi/low mix has served EI well over the last 10-15 years. I guess going forward the hi/low divide will be a bit wider with the ~190 seats of the A321LR and the 287 seats of the A333s. (-200s have approx 250 seats I think)


I agree with the thought that only the 2 A333 from Airbus are a definite so far. The possible extra's from a leasing company will only be confirmed a few weeks in advance once a reg is changed or an aircraft is scheduled in to the paint shop.

cson

Anyone know what percentage of the fleet is leased v owned these days?

Time Magazine

goingnowhere wrote: »

EWR is a -200 but can only run -300 routes due lack of crew rest and is a bit of an odd ball, same for GEY. Get rid of them ASAP and get a -300

I was on EWR this morning. It's better than smelly old GEY but is an obviously inferior aircraft for the consumer, e.g. films were skipping and pausing on everyone's screen.

Aside: the ground staff at IAD were laughably bad. My boarding pass didn't initially print out my Aerclub status and so I couldn't get into the BA Lounge, and when I queried it the gate agent told me the only option was for me to ring Avios. Not even Aer Lingus... Avios! (I disabused him of that notion fairly sharpish.)

alancostello

Time Magazine wrote: »

I was on EWR this morning. It's better than smelly old GEY but is an obviously inferior aircraft for the consumer, e.g. films were skipping and pausing on everyone's screen.

Aside: the ground staff at IAD were laughably bad. My boarding pass didn't initially print out my Aerclub status and so I couldn't get into the BA Lounge, and when I queried it the gate agent told me the only option was for me to ring Avios. Not even Aer Lingus... Avios! (I disabused him of that notion fairly sharpish.)

Calling GEY old and smelly is kinda funny, it's 18 months younger than EWR and after the poo-related incident that happened on it a few days ago you should be glad it wasn't smelly too. EWR also had an IFE update two-three years ago so it should actually be one of the more recent systems.

Last time I went through IAD the check-in agent had a list of all qualified status-entry passengers she could expect and accept for the day, I was on there and I watched her check me off. Did you not have an AerClub card or any other way to prove status?

Tenger

cson wrote: »

Anyone know what percentage of the fleet is leased v owned these days?

Not sure what is now. But about 2-3 years ago at an IAG presentation 40% owned, 60% leased was given as a statistic.

Time Magazine

alancostello wrote: »

Calling GEY old and smelly is kinda funny, it's 18 months younger than EWR and after the poo-related incident that happened on it a few days ago you should be glad it wasn't smelly too. EWR also had an IFE update two-three years ago so it should actually be one of the more recent systems.

<SNIP> Removed insensitive comment

Last time I went through IAD the check-in agent had a list of all qualified status-entry passengers she could expect and accept for the day, I was on there and I watched her check me off. Did you not have an AerClub card or any other way to prove status?

Yeah the BA Lounge lady had a list; we had a nice professional chat, and she told me it gets updated every day. My problem was something to do with the EI check-in counter. Not sure of the cause, I showed them my card and the status on my app, but apparently "It doesn't print SILV on the boarding card" and they told me to ring Avios. (Pause for a second, and consider again that an EI check-in agent told me I had to ring Avios to get my boarding pass sorted :eek:) Had to use my teacher voice before they took the minute or two to sort it out.

alancostello

Time Magazine wrote: »

Yeah the BA Lounge lady had a list; we had a nice professional chat, and she told me it gets updated every day. My problem was something to do with the EI check-in counter. Not sure of the cause, I showed them my card and the status on my app, but apparently "It doesn't print SILV on the boarding card" and they told me to ring Avios. (Pause for a second, and consider again that an EI check-in agent told me I had to ring Avios to get my boarding pass sorted :eek:) Had to use my teacher voice before they took the minute or two to sort it out.

I know they wear the green uniform, but they’re not really EI staff are they? I assumed they were just contract workers who wear the uniform, process the single daily flight/departure and then do another uniform and flight.

cson

Time Magazine wrote: »

I was on EWR this morning. It's better than smelly old GEY but is an obviously inferior aircraft for the consumer, e.g. films were skipping and pausing on everyone's screen.

Aside: the ground staff at IAD were laughably bad. My boarding pass didn't initially print out my Aerclub status and so I couldn't get into the BA Lounge, and when I queried it the gate agent told me the only option was for me to ring Avios. Not even Aer Lingus... Avios! (I disabused him of that notion fairly sharpish.)

The ex-QR 332 is the best equipment on that route, the alternatives are ASL or UA 757s which are a significantly worse configuration than the 332.

Bummer you missed out on the BA lounge though, it's pretty decent in the afternoon once they kick out the Priority Pass folk and put out the good spreads of food.

Arciphel

Anyone know what aircraft is flying the Dublin to Miami route today?

Rawr

Arciphel wrote: »

Anyone know what aircraft is flying the Dublin to Miami route today?

Looks like EI-LAX, an A330-200
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ei141

Van.Bosch

How often in advance do EI allocate routes to the LH routes? For example would it be known which plane is doing EI137 tomorrow yet?

Bussywussy

Van.Bosch wrote: »

How often in advance do EI allocate routes to the LH routes? For example would it be known which plane is doing EI137 tomorrow yet?

The plan is there for months but realistically it's only a few days with chopping and changing and can change withing a few hours of departure

Edit...ELA down for 137 tomorrow in case you were specifically asking

Chris_5339762

I wish EI would go back and do ORK-LGW. One flight per day with FR at a stupid time just isn't any good