Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

ohigg84

Was GEY fitted with a cabin crew rest area?
With some speculation regarding EI sourcing 2 ex Jet Airways A330s, would it not be feasible for EI to deploy one of the ex-Jet Airway A330s on the IAD route, and deploy GEY on West Coast routes (when required).

Air Italy (of which Qatar Airways holds a majority stake) is recently deploying ex Qatar Air A330-202s on the LAX and SFO routes.

Did these aircraft require a significant upgrade?

HTCOne

ohigg84 wrote: »

Was GEY fitted with a cabin crew rest area?
With some speculation regarding EI sourcing 2 ex Jet Airways A330s, would it not be feasible for EI to deploy one of the ex-Jet Airway A330s on the IAD route, and deploy GEY on West Coast routes (when required).

Air Italy (of which Qatar Airways holds a majority stake) is recently deploying ex Qatar Air A330-202s on the LAX and SFO routes.

Did these aircraft require a significant upgrade?

The West Coast routes are very high yielding due in large part to the high load factor in Business. Those customers would not suffer GEY well.

Shamrockj

ohigg84 wrote: »

Was GEY fitted with a cabin crew rest area?
With some speculation regarding EI sourcing 2 ex Jet Airways A330s, would it not be feasible for EI to deploy one of the ex-Jet Airway A330s on the IAD route, and deploy GEY on West Coast routes (when required).

Air Italy (of which Qatar Airways holds a majority stake) is recently deploying ex Qatar Air A330-202s on the LAX and SFO routes.

Did these aircraft require a significant upgrade?

-GEY doesn't have crew rest area fitted so cannot operate west coast currently.

Bussywussy

ohigg84 wrote: »

Was GEY fitted with a cabin crew rest area?

Did these aircraft require a significant upgrade?

No but it will be fitted in November when cabin is modified...the structural provision is there on GEY but not all 330s have the provision....it's not a very big job during a cabin reconfigure

ohigg84

Shamrockj wrote: »

-GEY doesn't have crew rest area fitted so cannot operate west coast currently.

Very true, but it is more than capable of flying West Coast.


I do recall a few years ago, it might have been 2016/early 2017, EI-EWR was deployed on the San Francisco route, albeit for just one day.


I think this was the time that LAX and DUO were out of service.

Jack1985

ohigg84 wrote: »

Very true, but it is more than capable of flying West Coast.


I do recall a few years ago, it might have been 2016/early 2017, EI-EWR was deployed on the San Francisco route, albeit for just one day.


I think this was the time that LAX and DUO were out of service.

Deployed alright with curtained off Business Class seats for both flight deck and cabin crew.

California Dreamer

And not a single mention of Irish Steve’s favorite destination!!! 😝😝

https://m.independent.ie/business/irish/aer-lingus-cleared-for-extra-flights-to-the-us-and-canada-38100959.html

basill

Not a mention of much in fact. Was a PR piece for Boeing if anything. But hey its the Indo so we wouldn't expect Pulitzer prize winning journalism.

HTCOne

"The new jets are likely to be delivered from 2021-2023". I believe the XLR is tentatively slated for EIS in 2024, and is sold out until 2025 at the earliest, so it sounds like either more LRs or 339s

Karl8415

2 questions and Forgive me if these questions are outdated but with that announcement about expanding with extra jets is that including EI’s recent ( within last 12 months) forecast where they say A330’s were coming up to 16 and balance made up of LR’s or is this in addition to that.
If it is additional frames any idea on how many aircraft because if it is then by the end of the mentioned timescale then that is seriously incredible expansion since IAG took over and at such a rapid pace

kevinandrew

Essentially the plan is to double the long haul fleet over the next five years, this was revealed late last year and reiterated at the brand reveal in January.

The idea is to go from the current 17 frames to around 30, this would take seat capacity across the Atlantic from 2.8m a year to over 4.7m annually.

Nijmegen

Yeah, the expansion under IAG has been mighty. Let us pause now to wait on congratulations from the knee jerk naysayers back in the day.

sandbelter

Karl8415 wrote: »

2 questions and Forgive me if these questions are outdated but with that announcement about expanding with extra jets is that including EI’s recent ( within last 12 months) forecast where they say A330’s were coming up to 16 and balance made up of LR’s or is this in addition to that.
If it is additional frames any idea on how many aircraft because if it is then by the end of the mentioned timescale then that is seriously incredible expansion since IAG took over and at such a rapid pace

Actually, I'm kind of confused as well, the Irish examiner indicated that the growth will be on top of what's been previously been announced.



"In a briefing, he told reporters Aer Lingus had performed strongly on the transatlantic routes and IAG saw opportunities “to expand even further beyond what we previously announced”. He cited discussions with US airports for not providing more details."


Source: https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/iag-boss-willie-walsh-reveals-aer-lingus-early-plans-for-new-atlantic-routes-923424.html


My reading of this they are flagging they're expanding beyond what they disclosed at the capex day last year.

john boye

kevinandrew wrote: »

The idea is to go from the current 17 frames to around 30, this would take seat capacity across the Atlantic from 2.8m a year to over 4.7m annually.

If that happens and the 3 existing A321s leave then that would bring the LH fleet almost level with the SH fleet. Although the double-jobbing LRs would blur the lines somewhat.

Nijmegen

john boye wrote: »

If that happens and the 3 existing A321s leave then that would bring the LH fleet almost level with the SH fleet. Although the double-jobbing LRs would blur the lines somewhat.

My guess is that they're chasing yield - They might not increase SH capacity but abandon the tenner weekend break fares to Ryanair and seek to get a larger percentage of the SH fleet seats filled with connecting fares. It'd be a prudent strategy that wouldn't see them overburdened with SH aircraft during any downturn.

alancostello

Nijmegen wrote: »

My guess is that they're chasing yield - They might not increase SH capacity but abandon the tenner weekend break fares to Ryanair and seek to get a larger percentage of the SH fleet seats filled with connecting fares. It'd be a prudent strategy that wouldn't see them overburdened with SH aircraft during any downturn.

Surely if they're expanding LH capacity so dramatically part of the feed has to come from an expanded SH network, Ireland only has so many passengers. If they're almost doubling LH aircraft they can't expect to automatically double or even triple their connecting traffic from existing European destinations unless they start doing transatlantic fares that are so attractive you couldn't reasonably pick any other carrier, at which point they're basically the transatlantic Ryanair.

GFrye

Bussywussy wrote: »

No but it will be fitted in November when cabin is modified..

I hope you don't mind me asking, but what is your source for the EI-GEY cabin modification schedule?

Since I have a DUB-IAD flight booked in December and EI-GEY currently appears to be the airframe most commonly used on that route, a cabin modification in November would certainly be welcome.

Nibs05

Any plans to replace the Avro’s Since the sukhoi’s were a disaster.

kevinandrew

Nibs05 wrote: »

Any plans to replace the Avro’s Since the sukhoi’s were a disaster.

That would be for CityJet to decide.

Choices are limited in terms of jets, it’s either Embraers or the A220 but both of which are rather expensive. The Avros are likely to solider on for a few more years, until at least the end of the current contract with Aer Lingus.

Locker10a

kevinandrew wrote: »

That would be for CityJet to decide.

Choices are limited in terms of jets, it’s either Embraers or the A220 but both of which are rather expensive. The Avros are likely to solider on for a few more years, until at least the end of the current contract with Aer Lingus.

I wonder if regional flying might be extended to jets ? CityJet have along with LCY started doing BHX for EI.

Karl8415

Does anybody know how leases work with aircraft.
Is there any similarities with car finance where after a set period of time and as long as payments are maintained then you own it or is it for example the LR’S that are due where EI would say that they expect to operate for example a 20 year period so repayments are set out over 20 years.Im asking out of curiosity because are they been leased so a vast amount of cash flow doesn’t gets tied up with each frame if they bought them.
So with the LR’s will they ever own them or will they always be leased to give flexibility to EI

billy few mates

Karl8415 wrote: »

Does anybody know how leases work with aircraft.
Is there any similarities with car finance where after a set period of time and as long as payments are maintained then you own it or is it for example the LR’S that are due where EI would say that they expect to operate for example a 20 year period so repayments are set out over 20 years.Im asking out of curiosity because are they been leased so a vast amount of cash flow doesn’t gets tied up with each frame if they bought them.
So with the LR’s will they ever own them or will they always be leased to give flexibility to EI

Most leases are operational leases where you basically just pay to rent the aircraft and hand it back when you're done with it. There are also finance leases which is basically like hire purchase and the operator will eventually own the aircraft but they're not actually that popular these days as most operators like the flexibility of operational leases and avoiding the long term cost of owning a depreciating asset that becomes more costly to maintain as it ages.
There are pros and cons to both.

Tenger

Leasing aircraft allows the airline to avoid massive capital investment upfront. The payments are spread over 5,10,15...... years. This gives stability to their forward planning.
In addition the flexibility of ‘renting’ rather than buying their aircraft means that if there is an industry downturn they can absorb the lease termination costs in return for reducing their asset inventory and the recurring costs associated with them.
Leasing also has stipulations about the return of the aircraft, the airline has to maintain it in a specified condition. ie, it’s been mentioned here that EI-EWR does not have a crew rest module fitted. EI probably would like this but perhaps the leasing company will not permit this change.

On a side note; A good few years back I had read that Boeing was reducing the options for galley configs on the B787. Apparently this was due to requests/pressure from the leasing industry who realized that less variations increased the value of their aircraft on the 2nd hand market.

Karl8415

Thank you guys for taking the time to reply to my question I really appreciate it

joeysoap

I’m genuinely shocked. I booked flights for later in the year, and decided I would now book seats for the return journey.

€13.99 for the cheapest seats!.

I flew AL last month to Italy and the seats were €9.99, which I thought was pushing it a bit. I won’t be purchasing at these prices, I’ll wait for the 30 hours or check in at the airport. I suspect I won’t be the only one.

Meant to post: seats available up to row 29, rows 30-36 shaded grey. It’s down as a 320 but obviously they are prepared to change to 321. They even have the row with 4 seats only on map, so if it is changed nobody will have bought ‘dead’ seats.

Singer

Kind of related to the recent topic, but maybe worthy of its own thread - are there any good books or other resources available about the business operations of modern airlines? i.e. leasing, slot management, route planning, flight operations, etc. that are accessible to an interested outsider?

kevinandrew

joeysoap wrote: »

I’m genuinely shocked. I booked flights for later in the year, and decided I would now book seats for the return journey.

€13.99 for the cheapest seats!.

I flew AL last month to Italy and the seats were €9.99, which I thought was pushing it a bit. I won’t be purchasing at these prices, I’ll wait for the 30 hours or check in at the airport. I suspect I won’t be the only one.

Meant to post: seats available up to row 29, rows 30-36 shaded grey. It’s down as a 320 but obviously they are prepared to change to 321. They even have the row with 4 seats only on map, so if it is changed nobody will have bought ‘dead’ seats.

Advanced seat selection fees still start from €9.99 but can change depending on route, time of year or availability. A flight to London for example in October will have an advanced seat selection fee of €9.99 but a flight to Lanzarote on the same day will charge €12.99 and so on. 

Aer Lingus don't push seat selection anywhere near as much as other carriers, even the so called "premium" brand at IAG, British Airways, charges Club World passengers to pick their seats. 

I think waiting for online check in to open is fine, there's almost always lots of free seats available, even for families to sit together. I haven't paid for seat selection in a few years and I'm yet yo have a problem. It's a different story on long haul, I'll always pay for a seat as they sell out much quicker.

adam88

Interesting to note that seat selection fees are one hundred percent pure profit. Anyone any idea of what ei make on seat selection fees??

joeysoap

Malaga. Pure profit as Adam posts. I’ll wait.

Jamie2k9

They make almost nothing for seat selection. Most pre-selected seats are those assigned to plus and advantage fares and not those who book saver and pay extra. It's a non issue when there is no obligation to pay for seats and almost all customers who book are seated together.

kevinandrew

adam88 wrote: »

Interesting to note that seat selection fees are one hundred percent pure profit. Anyone any idea of what ei make on seat selection fees??

I don't think they've ever broken down the details but prior to the IAG take over ancillary revenue was somewhere around 14% of total revenue, not the highest but definitely up there, Ryanair in comparison was 25% while Wizz Air was 35% which makes them the top two.

sherology

With the a321LR, are EI adding a galley area or WCs between business and economy or is it more of a continuous cabin? With bassinets/baby-cot drop downs, and economy drifting up to use front WC, assume they'll want a bit of hardware/sound buffering between the cabins?

Any more info of dates or images?

Locker10a

sherology wrote: »

With the a321LR, are EI adding a galley area or WCs between business and economy or is it more of a continuous cabin? With bassinets/baby-cot drop downs, and economy drifting up to use front WC, assume they'll want a bit of hardware/sound buffering between the cabins?

Any more info of dates or images?

I would imagine it’s a bulkhead and a curtain, same as they have on the 757

Jack1985

Locker10a wrote: »

I would imagine it’s a bulkhead and a curtain, same as they have on the 757

Fwd and Aft Galley, space-flex v2 galleys. As above a bulkhead and curtain to separate the Business cabin.

goingnowhere

So its going to be 2 WC in the back and 1 WC in the front and not 4 as current

GFrye

adam88 wrote: »

Interesting to note that seat selection fees are one hundred percent pure profit. Anyone any idea of what ei make on seat selection fees??

Other than the credit card processing fee, I don't think EI incurs any cost when someone pays to select a seat. So it may not be 100% profit, but probably close to it.

shanemul

Anyone Know what aircraft is operating the EI108/109 today

Currently showing with a 2.5hr delay with a tech issue

Locker10a

Jack1985 wrote: »

Fwd and Aft Galley, space-flex v2 galleys. As above a bulkhead and curtain to separate the Business cabin.

God knows how they’re going to provide a full meal service with those galleys! Unless they’ve split it into two galley units either side of 1R and 4R.

EIMH

shanemul wrote: »

Anyone Know what aircraft is operating the EI108/109 today

Currently showing with a 2.5hr delay with a tech issue

Those flights were cancelled for yesterday looks like ei-lax has problem on ground since Tue morning EI-DUZ is only other A330 on ground at present was probably due mtce today as it hasn't had a "rest" day since March
Hope one of them makes it today

GFrye

shanemul wrote: »

Anyone Know what aircraft is operating the EI108/109 today

Currently showing with a 2.5hr delay with a tech issue

Flightradar24 now shows EI-LAX operating EI109 today. Departure delayed 3:24.

Jack1985

goingnowhere wrote: »

So its going to be 2 WC in the back and 1 WC in the front and not 4 as current

No, it will remain 4. There will be 1 at 1L and 3 at 4L.

Locker10a wrote: »

God knows how they’re going to provide a full meal service with those galleys! Unless they’ve split it into two galley units either side of 1R and 4R.

Talk to me about it.. but the bean counters know better. :rolleyes:

kevinandrew

What other options were there for galley space without affecting seat count? It looks like Airbus has utilised every possible inch of cabin floor space to squeeze everything in while maintaining a competitive seat count.


I wonder if TAP is going for the same galley layout, they have a near identical layout and cabin product to Aer Lingus. If TAP can manage it, anyone can...

NH2013

Has an official seat map been published yet for the NEO?

joeysoap

I was talking to a friend who works for AL. I was just asking her how they are going manage the guaranteed overhead locker space for AerSpace customers. She said they weren’t informed yet but it might be ‘tricky’.

Also she didn’t know who would get priority in the case of overbooking the AerSpace customers or the overbooked passengers.

Might never happen of course.

Locker10a

joeysoap wrote: »

I was talking to a friend who works for AL. I was just asking her how they are going manage the guaranteed overhead locker space for AerSpace customers. She said they weren’t informed yet but it might be ‘tricky’.

Also she didn’t know who would get priority in the case of overbooking the AerSpace customers or the overbooked passengers.

Might never happen of course.

Part of the “guarantee” locker space is Priority boarding, ideally the Aer Space pax will board first. Alternatively if they don’t the crew may have an idea based on the manifest if there are AerSpace pax booked and what seat they’re in, and based on this info do their best to keep a space. That’s how I would imagine it will work.

Locker10a

kevinandrew wrote: »

What other options were there for galley space without affecting seat count? It looks like Airbus has utilised every possible inch of cabin floor space to squeeze everything in while maintaining a competitive seat count.


I wonder if TAP is going for the same galley layout, they have a near identical layout and cabin product to Aer Lingus. If TAP can manage it, anyone can...

I don’t think TAP have gone with the space flex galley V2

Jack1985

Locker10a wrote: »

Part of the “guarantee” locker space is Priority boarding, ideally the Aer Space pax will board first. Alternatively if they don’t the crew may have an idea based on the manifest if there are AerSpace pax booked and what seat they’re in, and based on this info do their best to keep a space. That’s how I would imagine it will work.

Nothing agreed to yet !

Van.Bosch

Jack1985 wrote: »

Nothing agreed to yet !

Excellent planning - launch it without knowing how it will operate.

JCX BXC

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Excellent planning - launch it without knowing how it will operate.

It's not launched yet to be fair!

Van.Bosch

JCX BXC wrote: »

It's not launched yet to be fair!

It is - not live until Sept but it’s on sale. I get they have time but before going public, I would expect the details to be worked out.