Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

Cookiemunster

6 of them from 2023.

https://twitter.com/AerLingus/status/1140977783889440769

cson

"New routes beyond the US East Coast & Canada" is interesting verbiage. Does it suggest something more than just US Midwest/West expansion?

Zonda999

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=DUB&R=4250nm%40DUB%0D%0A&MS=wls&DU=mi

Assuming real world range of 4,250nm from DUB, we get the above map.

Not sure on what possible long and thin routes this might add, YVR, LOS, DEL perhaps?

cson

Carribean bucket and spade seasonal would be the only thing that jumps out.

Shamrockj

Its the perfect aircraft for EI and their location. YYC, DEN , IAH, CUN, FLL and YVR come to mind. Amazing how many destinations this will open up compared to having only A330 5 years ago.

Lapmo_Dancer

MIA is obvious. It’ll allow an increase from the current 2 weekly offering on the 330

alancostello

Lapmo_Dancer wrote: »

MIA is obvious. It’ll allow an increase from the current 2 weekly offering on the 330

Not to mention it'll be a codeshare with AA once the JV is approved, you'll start to see excellent South American connections through EI/AA. Wouldn't be surprised to see EI do their own DFW flight with an XLR in addition to American's too.

tanya1987

alancostello wrote: »

Not to mention it'll be a codeshare with AA once the JV is approved, you'll start to see excellent South American connections through EI/AA. Wouldn't be surprised to see EI do their own DFW flight with an XLR in addition to American's too.

Unless the flight times are changed, with the timing when EI lands in Miami there are no connections to South America and few to the US.

tanya1987

Zonda999 wrote: »

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=DUB&R=4250nm%40DUB%0D%0A&MS=wls&DU=mi

Assuming real world range of 4,250nm from DUB, we get the above map.

Not sure on what possible long and thin routes this might add, YVR, LOS, DEL perhaps?

Aer Lingus and IAG were very clear on having no interest in the Asian Market for EI. The Focus is to be a leading carrier between Ireland and North America with a profitable short haul network in Europe. So definitely we won’t see LOS, DEL or DXB

Idbatterim

according to that map vegas is right on the threshold?

alancostello

tanya1987 wrote: »

Unless the flight times are changed, with the timing when EI lands in Miami there are no connections to South America and few to the US.

A quick look has shown post 10pm (EI arrives at 8pm) flights to Bogotá, Rio de Janerio, Buenos Aries, and Santiago but yes I'd imagine it'd be retimed if/when it happens. You'd have to be mental to connect domestic in MIA unless you're going to a secondary Florida city and even then you're better served by PHL or CLT.

alancostello

IAG has just signed a letter of intent(LOI) for 200 737 MAX aircraft, to be distributed 'across the group, including Vueling and LEVEL', so presumably that's potentially fleet renewal for EI, IB, and/or BA as well.

https://twitter.com/airwayslive/status/1140989557606772736

L1011

200 is about 2/3rds of the entire narrowbody IAG fleet currently.

alancostello

L1011 wrote: »

200 is about 2/3rds of the entire narrowbody IAG fleet currently.

Apparently Willie Walsh mentioned them for BA at Gatwick too, which would probably make up the balance from LEVEL and Vueling.

Captain_Crash

L1011 wrote: »

200 is about 2/3rds of the entire narrowbody IAG fleet currently.

And they already have a s**tload of A32XNEO's on order too so that's prob the replacement orders complete.


I'd imagine they'll be dispersed as required. With an already small fleet and now an updated A321 order, I'd be sure a good few of the A320's on order will be moving to DUB and 737's sticking with BA et al.

blackwhite

alancostello wrote: »

IAG has just signed a letter of intent(LOI) for 200 737 MAX aircraft, to be distributed 'across the group, including Vueling and LEVEL', so presumably that's potentially fleet renewal for EI, IB, and/or BA as well.

https://twitter.com/airwayslive/status/1140989557606772736

You'd imagine they've gotten a very generous price from Boeing. Shades of O'Leary post 9/11 in terms of opportunism.

alancostello

blackwhite wrote: »

You'd imagine they've gotten a very generous price from Boeing. Shades of O'Leary post 9/11 in terms of opportunism.

Oh absolutely, WW loves a deal. That said this is only a LOI not a firm order, this could be a shot across the bow at Airbus.

Tenger

I have no doubt that WW will use any opportunity to pressure Airbus for a good deal. Saying that these 200 B737s are planned “across the IAG” is a hint that he wants a nice deal from Airbus. (That could be costs or slots)

cson wrote: »

"New routes beyond the US East Coast & Canada" is interesting verbiage. Does it suggest something more than just US Midwest/West expansion?

Doubt it. With pre clearance and 14 A321s they can open new routes inland from the East Coast.

Marcusm

cson wrote: »

Carribean bucket and spade seasonal would be the only thing that jumps out.

One does not bring a bucket & spade to the Caribbean, except CUN and PUJ.

x567

tanya1987 wrote: »

Unless the flight times are changed, with the timing when EI lands in Miami there are no connections to South America and few to the US.

...but the opposite is true for connections onto the late departure back to DUB - you can make this from most Caribbean and South American destinations. Just means an overnight in Miami on the way out.

liiga

I wonder how B737max will look with Aerlingus livery ?

Locker10a

liiga wrote: »

I wonder how B737max will look with Aerlingus livery ?

I really doubt it will ever be seen in Aer Lingus livery again. I’d say EI will be kept an all Airbus outfit of a320s, 321lr/xlr and a330. Adding a 737 into the mix would just increase costs for training, operations, maintenance etc they couldn’t justify the costs.
If the 737max even happens at IAG it will probably be totally separate like exclusively Level and Vueling with maybe an exception for BA Gatwick fleet but ever there I can’t see it happening

steve-o

alancostello wrote: »

A quick look has shown post 10pm (EI arrives at 8pm) flights to Bogotá, Rio de Janerio, Buenos Aries, and Santiago but yes I'd imagine it'd be retimed if/when it happens.

Friends don't let friends connect in the US. The hassle of Visa/ESTA, immigration and customs isn't worth it. Especially coming the other way without preclearance. And connecting from Europe to Brazil, Argentina or Chile via USA is a long way around. Connecting in London, Paris or Madrid is much faster.

alancostello

steve-o wrote: »

Friends don't let friends connect in the US. The hassle of Visa/ESTA, immigration and customs isn't worth it. Especially coming the other way without preclearance. And connecting from Europe to Brazil, Argentina or Chile via USA is a long way around. Connecting in London, Paris or Madrid is much faster.

Eastern Brazil I'll give to you would be quicker through Europe, Chile is much of a muchness over that long a distance, but Bogotá and Lima are still much quicker via MIA.

We have seem time and time again the only thing that matters to most people is price, and every time I've ever looked BA and AF are some of the most expensive options to get to South America.

I guarantee if EI/AA through MIA offer 10%-20% cheaper flights to Santiago and even Rio ex-DUB the majority of people will take them over quicker but more expensive routings on BA/AF/IB.

cson

Marcusm wrote: »

One does not bring a bucket & spade to the Caribbean, except CUN and PUJ.

CUN was what I was getting at, it's a very popular destination these days for Irish folk. You might get enough US retirees going the other way to make it viable.

IE 222

Will this bring the total of A321lr/xlr to 20 frames? This would will free up a lot of short haul frames for new Euro routes if they can allocate a Euro leg throughout the day.

Surely there is a market for connecting traffic to more eastern destinations such as Moscow, Tel Aviv, North Africa, West Africa and possibly Saudi Arabia if they can develop this new direction their seeking.

Tenger

IE 222 wrote: »

Will this bring the total of A321lr/xlr to 20 frames? This would will free up a lot of short haul frames for new Euro routes if they can allocate a Euro leg throughout the day.

This order is for 6 XLR to go to Aer Lingus, this would be on top of the existing 8 LR getting delivered within the next 12 months. So 14 in total by 2023.
IAG may well have options on another dozen above the 14 mentioned today. (Vueling and Level certainly may want some) So post 2023 we could see more arriving. Having perhaps 6 of these 14 on Euro routes per day (LHR,CDG,FRA,FCO etc) would obviously free up A320s to open new routes or boost capacity.

I can see EI being allocated A320/321neo’s for shorthaul replacement in the next 2-3 years as well.

Considering their current market of lots of US sourced pax, I don’t think those routes mentioned would get too much of the price sensitive leisure market willing to fly indirect.

Locker10a

The 321neoLR/XLR seems to be really shaping up to be a game changer. Especially for EI. Interesting times ahead, god knows how they’re going to manage stand/gate allocation at DUB over the next few years, especially at T2

Van.Bosch

Locker10a wrote: »

The 321neoLR/XLR seems to be really shaping up to be a game changer. Especially for EI. Interesting times ahead, god knows how they’re going to manage stand/gate allocation at DUB over the next few years, especially at T2

True but it’s easier to fit an A321LR/XLR than a A330, another benefit.

alancostello

Van.Bosch wrote: »

True but it’s easier to fit an A321LR/XLR than a A330, another benefit.

If memory serves some of the stands at T2 built for dual A32x or one A330, so at least they won't take up the same as one A330. My bigger concern is preclearance, it's been an absolute nightmare the last few weeks, that new expanded facility can't come soon enough.

IE 222

Tenger wrote: »

This order is for 6 XLR to go to Aer Lingus, this would be on top of the existing 8 LR getting delivered within the next 12 months. So 14 in total by 2023.
IAG may well have options on another dozen above the 14 mentioned today. (Vueling and Level certainly may want some) So post 2023 we could see more arriving. Having perhaps 6 of these 14 on Euro routes per day (LHR,CDG,FRA,FCO etc) would obviously free up A320s to open new routes or boost capacity.

I can see EI being allocated A320/321neo’s for shorthaul replacement in the next 2-3 years as well.

Considering their current market of lots of US sourced pax, I don’t think those routes mentioned would get too much of the price sensitive leisure market willing to fly indirect.

So the extra 4 or 6 A321lr on top of the original 8 order that was been talked about will now become 6 A321xlr instead.

How many A330 are expected to arrive by next year?

Is there any scope of ordering A321 neo's for Euro routes with all economy.

Captain_Crash

Tenger wrote: »

This order is for 6 XLR to go to Aer Lingus, this would be on top of the existing 8 LR getting delivered within the next 12 months. So 14 in total by 2023

So have the 4 options on the original order been converted to 6 firm XLR orders?

Tenger

Captain_Crash wrote: »

So have the 4 options on the original order been converted to 6 firm XLR orders?

No mention yet. May never be referred to if this new order includes previous options.


As for the A320/321neo. Im sure EI will have them in the fleet within 5 years.

A330s. EI stated in January at the livery launch that they are getting 2 new A333s from Airbus. One in Q419 and another in Q120.

goingnowhere

IE 222 wrote: »

Is there any scope of ordering A321 neo's for Euro routes with all economy.

A321neo lr IS a A321 neo, you just remove the ACT fuel tanks to return to basic neo spec and activate the additional emergency exits

The A321neo lr will be flying DUB-LHR/CDG and others from end of 2019

The A321neo xlr is structurally different as the primary additional fuel tank is built in (but it carries more fuel in less space than the ACT's in the lr)

IE 222

goingnowhere wrote: »

A321neo lr IS a A321 neo, you just remove the ACT fuel tanks to return to basic neo spec and activate the additional emergency exits

The A321neo lr will be flying DUB-LHR/CDG and others from end of 2019

The A321neo xlr is structurally different as the primary additional fuel tank is built in (but it carries more fuel in less space than the ACT's in the lr)

I thought as much. Would there be any scope in EI taking A321s with all economy layout with seating for 220-230 for Euro routes.

IE 222

Tenger wrote: »

No mention yet. May never be referred to if this new order includes previous options.


As for the A320/321neo. Im sure EI will have them in the fleet within 5 years.

A330s. EI stated in January at the livery launch that they are getting 2 new A333s from Airbus. One in Q419 and another in Q120.

I thought they were getting 12 A321LR for sure and that was potentially be upped to 14?

I knew about the 2 ordered ones but was there not talk of a 3rd or 4th possibly coming as well or was that just the rumour mill. Think its was surfaced when Jet airways collapsed and Qatar were looking to offload more A330s.

Kcormahs

IE 222 wrote: »

I thought they were getting 12 A321LR for sure and that was potentially be upped to 14?

I knew about the 2 ordered ones but was there not talk of a 3rd or 4th possibly coming as well or was that just the rumour mill. Think its was surfaced when Jet airways collapsed and Qatar were looking to offload more A330s.

Confirmed a321LR there was only 8. People specualated 12 and 14 because at the time IAG was already considering the XLRs as a further addition. But the initial and only order of a321LR is and was only 8.

in regards to the a330, 2 -300 are confirmed on the airbus order page. the 1 or 2 spare from Jetairways/Qatar aren't confirmed but could well be true. Last I heard, one of those (think it was Jetairways) the engines wouldn't be suitable for the EI fleet in terms of maintenance and they just gave up on those. This could be only a rumour though.

liiga

I would imagine aerlingus a321xlr aircraft will have the eyeliner ?

L1011

liiga wrote: »

I would imagine aerlingus a321xlr aircraft will have the eyeliner ?

No reason it would if the conventional LRs aren't getting it.

Cookiemunster

liiga wrote: »

I would imagine aerlingus a321xlr aircraft will have the eyeliner ?

I think it's up to the airline as to whether they want it or not. EIs A321LRs don't have them, but launch customer Arkia has it and Air Transat have it.

kevinandrew

The cockpit window mask is entirely optional, I don’t believe it has any operational advantage whereas on the A350 it supposedly does but I’m not sure what exactly.

I wouldn’t go by the Airbus image either, if you look closely you’ll see they’ve placed the old shamrock design on the outside of the winglet.

Cookiemunster

kevinandrew wrote: »

The cockpit window mask is entirely optional, I don’t believe it has any operational advantage whereas on the A350 it supposedly does but I’m not sure what exactly.

I wouldn’t go by the Airbus image either, if you look closely you’ll see they’ve placed the old shamrock design on the outside of the winglet.

The photos of the painted LR in Hamburg show that it doesn't have it, so it's unlikely the XLR will either.

kevinandrew

Could the IAG order for the 737 MAX trigger a fleet reshuffle within the group? 


IAG has indicated that Vueling, Level and British Airways Gatwick will be the 737 MAX operators while the remaining carriers, British Airways Heathrow, Aer Lingus and Iberia will remain Airbus narrow body operators. 


Vueling is currently all Airbus and is actively taking delivery of A320neo frames but the latest suggests they'll transition to all Boeing so there's a large number of young A320neo's and those remaining on order that will need a home within the group and Aer Lingus could be in line for those. 

IAG has 80 on order and 35 A320neo's in operation so there's plenty of room within the group to move them around now that the MAX has been ordered and should take care of three short haul fleets in the group.

I hope Aer Lingus see's some movement on short haul fleet renewal, I don't count the A321LR as while it will feature on short haul occasionally, it's main mission will be transatlantic and it's not fully optimised for the short haul network.

alancostello

kevinandrew wrote: »

Could the IAG order for the 737 MAX trigger a fleet reshuffle within the group? 


IAG has indicated that Vueling, Level and British Airways Gatwick will be the 737 MAX operators while the remaining carriers, British Airways Heathrow, Aer Lingus and Iberia will remain Airbus narrow body operators. 


Vueling is currently all Airbus and is actively taking delivery of A320neo frames but the latest suggests they'll transition to all Boeing so there's a large number of young A320neo's and those remaining on order that will need a home within the group and Aer Lingus could be in line for those. 

IAG has 80 on order and 35 A320neo's in operation so there's plenty of room within the group to move them around now that the MAX has been ordered and should take care of three short haul fleets in the group.

I hope Aer Lingus see's some movement on short haul fleet renewal, I don't count the A321LR as while it will feature on short haul occasionally, it's main mission will be transatlantic and it's not fully optimised for the short haul network.

This is exactly why IAG moved to standardise galleys and equipment across their fleets, to facilitate the easy transition of aircraft from one airline to another. All EI or BA would have to do to take an ex-Vueling or ex-LEVEL aircraft is repaint and change the doily that hangs over the headrest, BA and Vueling A320neos are essentially indistinguishable on the inside.

john boye

kevinandrew wrote: »

Could the IAG order for the 737 MAX trigger a fleet reshuffle within the group? 


IAG has indicated that Vueling, Level and British Airways Gatwick will be the 737 MAX operators while the remaining carriers, British Airways Heathrow, Aer Lingus and Iberia will remain Airbus narrow body operators. 


Vueling is currently all Airbus and is actively taking delivery of A320neo frames but the latest suggests they'll transition to all Boeing so there's a large number of young A320neo's and those remaining on order that will need a home within the group and Aer Lingus could be in line for those. 

I was thinking exactly that earlier (if the max order comes to pass). Would give EI a new or nearly-new batch of NEOs and all it would take is a transfer from Vuelling.

GM228

kevinandrew wrote: »

The cockpit window mask is entirely optional, I don’t believe it has any operational advantage whereas on the A350 it supposedly does but I’m not sure what exactly.

I wouldn’t go by the Airbus image either, if you look closely you’ll see they’ve placed the old shamrock design on the outside of the winglet.

On the A350 the mask is used for "harmonising the thermal condition of [the] temperature-sensitive window area", due to them having curved cockpit glass.

A few years ago Airbus announced the A330neo would also have the mask, (they call it the "Shades"), but I'm not certain if it is a design feature or just looks nice. On that point I'll say personally I do think the masks look well.

I have read that on other models it is optional to reduce costs for replacement parts, as the entire window surround panel can be removed it is cheaper to supply spare parts in a standard colour rather than paint to each airlines specific shade, hence why some airlines have it on the A321LRs and some don't as already mentioned, it's most likely a costs based decision. Similar to unpainted aluminium window surrounds?

Tenger

GM228 wrote: »

........
I have read that on other models it is optional to reduce costs for replacement parts, as the entire window surround panel can be removed it is cheaper to supply spare parts in a standard colour rather than paint to each airlines specific shade, hence why some airlines have it on the A321LRs and some don't as already mentioned, it's most likely a costs based decision. Similar to unpainted aluminium window surrounds?

Thats the initial reason I had read about the raccoon/bandit mask on the A350.
The feature is also on the A330neo, not sure if that is cosmetic or for the same repair/replacement reason.

Im guessing its a cosmetic feature on the A321LR (unless they have changed the cockpit windows without pointing it out)

Van.Bosch

kevinandrew wrote: »

Could the IAG order for the 737 MAX trigger a fleet reshuffle within the group? 


IAG has indicated that Vueling, Level and British Airways Gatwick will be the 737 MAX operators while the remaining carriers, British Airways Heathrow, Aer Lingus and Iberia will remain Airbus narrow body operators. 


Vueling is currently all Airbus and is actively taking delivery of A320neo frames but the latest suggests they'll transition to all Boeing so there's a large number of young A320neo's and those remaining on order that will need a home within the group and Aer Lingus could be in line for those. 

IAG has 80 on order and 35 A320neo's in operation so there's plenty of room within the group to move them around now that the MAX has been ordered and should take care of three short haul fleets in the group.

I hope Aer Lingus see's some movement on short haul fleet renewal, I don't count the A321LR as while it will feature on short haul occasionally, it's main mission will be transatlantic and it's not fully optimised for the short haul network.

I still reckon this is a PR move, for IAG to get a better deal from Airbus and Boring to get some good news re the max. Seems huge to move Vueling to a 737 operation.

Saying that, does that mean a single fleet operator can never change, which seems wrong.

Kcormahs

We may see Agadir again and a new route to Marrakesh with Aer Lingus soon enough, accordingly to a few sources:

https://www.infomediaire.net/aerien-aer-lingus-va-bientot-atterrir-au-maroc/

http://northafricapost.com/31935-for-ireland-morocco-is-gateway-to-african-markets.html

GM228

Tenger wrote: »

Thats the initial reason I had read about the raccoon/bandit mask on the A350.
The feature is also on the A330neo, not sure if that is cosmetic or for the same repair/replacement reason.

Im guessing its a cosmetic feature on the A321LR (unless they have changed the cockpit windows without pointing it out)

I think that was always the initial speculated reason as no official reason was ever really stated by Airbus or airlines, that is until last year, when Virgin Atlantic finally answered the long standing query in their Ruby blog:-

Why does the Airbus A350 wear a Zorro mask?

Next year we welcome our new aircraft the Airbus A350-1000 to our fleet, and everyone here at Virgin Atlantic is incredibly excited. We’ve got teams of people making sure its entry into service is smooth and we have a few surprises up our sleeves to delight you. Although we’re keeping things under wraps for the time being there’s one thing that’s been intriguing us about the aircraft. It’s a question that gets asked again and again. Why Zorro’s mask?

Every Airbus A350 comes with the distinct black masking around the pilot’s window. In today’s world when many aircraft look the same, it really makes the A350 stand out. Nobody has ever seen anything like it on any other civil aircraft. That Airbus don’t offer the aircraft without this feature suggested to us there was more to it than just a pair of sunnies for one of the most sophisticated jets in the sky. So we asked Airbus for an explanation:

“The A350 XWB is the first ever Airbus aircraft with curved cockpit glasses. These cockpit windows offer more than just the most futuristic, aesthetic and distinctive look. The new windshield enhances the overall aerodynamic efficiency of the aircraft,” said Donna Lloyd, Head of Communication Business Partners at Airbus.  “The perfectly curved shape of the nose helps the air flow hug the surface, in the least turbulent manner, thereby reducing drag. The emblematic “Ray-Ban” like black windshield eases the window’s maintenance and contributes to harmonising the thermal condition of this temperature-sensitive window area. The slightly concave nose area (seen from the side) offers the pilots an optimal view of the immediate surroundings easing ground operations and making them safer.”

So there you have it. Efficiency and safety, two of the most important elements of aviation, and super stylish too. Many thanks to Airbus for the interesting explanation.