Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

HTCOne

California Dreamer wrote: »

Could you not demand to get off after 3 hours? Could you not cite false arrest if they refuse to let you deplane?

I suppose you could. Problem is in this situation you are in America, so to get off the plane you would need to go through Irish immigration. I’m thinking logistically that might pose issues

Cloudio9

HTCOne wrote: »

I suppose you could. Problem is in this situation you are in America, so to get off the plane you would need to go through Irish immigration. I’m thinking logistically that might pose issues

I’ve seen it happen, didn’t seem to be a big deal and also have been deplaned myself (along with everyone else) after an a330 went tech. We were just routed back through passport to the baggage hall. Ultimately if you say you’re not prepared to fly there’s not much they can do about it. Have also seen a passenger deplane due to fear of flying but that was just a flight to UK. Crew were very sympathetic and captain even tried to very gently persuade.

California Dreamer

I just find it strange that pax were not hopping off the walks sitting on the ground for 6 hours. No Daily Mail story about people passing out or starving to death!!!

billy few mates

Third_Echelon wrote: »

depends how you value your time I suppose. I'd rather be at the other end relaxing than still in the air :P

I meant €600 is €100 per hour...
That's more than I'd make sitting in work for six hours...

medoc

Nibs05 wrote: »

Guess hard to cancel with pax already pre cleared.

Happened to us a few years ago on a Delta flight. They let off the plane after about 3 hours back in to the pre cleared area. Eventually the flight was canceled and as all the American personnel had gone home (it was about 7pm) we had to wait till one of them came back in to “de pre clear us”.

Locker10a

California Dreamer wrote: »

I just find it strange that pax were not hopping off the walks sitting on the ground for 6 hours. No Daily Mail story about people passing out or starving to death!!!

I guess they probably didn’t know it was going to actually take 6 hours! And they needed/wanted to get to their destination. Abandoning your flight would mean your essentially tearing up your ticket and throwing it in the bin. The only people who I’ve know to do that are business travelers on short haul who are going for a day trip, where the delay means it’s no longer with it. Otherwise people generally need to go where they’re going!

Hotblack Desiato

billy few mates wrote: »

I meant €600 is €100 per hour...
That's more than I'd make sitting in work for six hours...

I doubt you sit at work in a narrow economy airline seat with people crammed in front back and either side of you...!!!

Now if it was business, I'd suck it up

The worst thing though would be not knowing, it probably started as a half hour delay and went up by a half hour or an hour each time...

Did they at least have air conditioning on, water/snacks available etc.? Heard horror stories of people stuck on planes for hours in summer in high temperatures, no water etc.

Nibs05

Is the 129 returning

https://ibb.co/RQ5btq9

EIMH

Certainly looks like it is .
Now back over Donegal

billie1b

EIMH wrote: »

Certainly looks like it is .
Now back over Donegal

In the hold off Balbriggan, burning fuel, rescue crews on standby by the fire station for an over weight landing.

Jack1985

Every August :pac:

Marcusm

HTCOne wrote: »

I suppose you could. Problem is in this situation you are in America, so to get off the plane you would need to go through Irish immigration. I’m thinking logistically that might pose issues

You are not in the USA; you are in an Irish registered plane on Irish soil subject to the provisions of Irish law including constitutional rights. The limited powers given to CBP and associated staff are subject to Irish law and applicable in the pre-clearance area only.

john boye

Is the annual meltdown beginning?

steokeogh

Marcusm wrote: »

HTCOne wrote: »

I suppose you could. Problem is in this situation you are in America, so to get off the plane you would need to go through Irish immigration. I’m thinking logistically that might pose issues

You are not in the USA; you are in an Irish registered plane on Irish soil subject to the provisions of Irish law including constitutional rights. The limited powers given to CBP and associated staff are subject to Irish law and applicable in the pre-clearance area only.

That is not necessarily true. You have, in the eyes of US immigration, entered the US. Which mean they do have to record that you didn't fly and be de-cleared. On the Irish immigration side I am not sure of the process.

Also flights that leave from the CBP area are deemed sterile and sealed once the door has been closed. So yes Irish law applies but the CBP legislation allow this situation to happen.

Kind of come back to the hours that CBP operates. Hypothetically, should there be an amendment added that there must be a CBP presence until all flights to the US have passed the point of no return.

California Dreamer

I just would find it hard enough to sit on a plane going nowhere for hours on end with was probably very little information. As soon as the 3 hour mark came I would want off. Regardless if the flight was leaving 5 mins later or not

Locker10a

California Dreamer wrote: »

I just would find it hard enough to sit on a plane going nowhere for hours on end with was probably very little information. As soon as the 3 hour mark came I would want off. Regardless if the flight was leaving 5 mins later or not

Fair enough but you'd be forfeiting your ticket

Donegal Storm

I've been on four EI flights this month and all four were delayed, one by 3 hours and two others by over an hour. Seems to be par for the course at this time of year

California Dreamer

Locker10a wrote: »

Fair enough but you'd be forfeiting your ticket

Someone said they would be happy to sit there for 6 hours just to get the compo! If I am sitting there for 3 hours, I am out the door! Lost ticket or not!

Locker10a

Donegal Storm wrote: »

I've been on four EI flights this month and all four were delayed, one by 3 hours and two others by over an hour. Seems to be par for the course at this time of year

Pretty much is across the industry, it’s peak season, so almost no leeway in the schedule, so you just need one or two delays during the day and the delays snowball

Jack1985

Exactly and Europe is basically slot restricted everywhere so one little delay as above, snowballs.

Looks like the TA delays have now been dealt with when GAJ gets back tomorrow on the 146 it'll have just shy of 4 hours before it does the 125 and similarly as result of a long planned turnaround in Boston for the 137, LAX which was severely delayed to Toronto last night will make it up this afternoon over there.

Locker10a

Jack1985 wrote: »

Exactly and Europe is basically slot restricted everywhere so one little delay as above, snowballs.

Looks like the TA delays have now been dealt with when GAJ gets back tomorrow on the 146 it'll have just shy of 4 hours before it does the 125 and similarly as result of a long planned turnaround in Boston for the 137, LAX which was severely delayed to Toronto last night will make it up this afternoon over there.

I was flying out this afternoon, we taxied out to the east runway, 11 aircraft were ahead of us, ended up taking off exactly 1 hour behind schedule.
I was looking at a lot of the aircraft on Flightradar, many seem to have left dublin on time this morning but are 15-30 mins late landing back, guessing due to slots

Jack1985

Runway 10 just doesn't help matters at all, you can easily be taxiing for 40-45 minutes there some days.

Marcusm

steokeogh wrote: »

That is not necessarily true. You have, in the eyes of US immigration, entered the US. Which mean they do have to record that you didn't fly and be de-cleared. On the Irish immigration side I am not sure of the process.

Also flights that leave from the CBP area are deemed sterile and sealed once the door has been closed. So yes Irish law applies but the CBP legislation allow this situation to happen.

Kind of come back to the hours that CBP operates. Hypothetically, should there be an amendment added that there must be a CBP presence until all flights to the US have passed the point of no return.

You have been pre-cleared to enter the US, nothing more. The limited powers granted to CBP officers relate to those carrying or suspected of carrying a weapon and those whom they have seen committing an offence. Their powers of detention are limited to holding the suspect until they can be surrendered to AGS. Otherwise, their powers are persuasive; follow my orders or I will blacklist you. It is all Irish soil, it is not the same as a foreign embassy.

Locker10a

Marcusm wrote: »

You have been pre-cleared to enter the US, nothing more. The limited powers granted to CBP officers relate to those carrying or suspected of carrying a weapon and those whom they have seen committing an offence. Their powers of detention are limited to holding the suspect until they can be surrendered to AGS. Otherwise, their powers are persuasive; follow my orders or I will blacklist you. It is all Irish soil, it is not the same as a foreign embassy.

Passengers can and do get off US flights after boarding in Dublin, it’s happened for sick pax and disruptive pax in the past.
There’s absolutely nothing to suggest people were being held captive during that delay, the most reasonable and logical reason people didn’t get off is because they needed to get home/to their destination, and couldn’t afford to just forfeit their ticket just because of the inconvenience

LXFlyer

Locker10a wrote: »

I was flying out this afternoon, we taxied out to the east runway, 11 aircraft were ahead of us, ended up taking off exactly 1 hour behind schedule.
I was looking at a lot of the aircraft on Flightradar, many seem to have left dublin on time this morning but are 15-30 mins late landing back, guessing due to slots

I think it is important to point out that scheduled departure times are the times that the doors are scheduled to close on the departure stand, and the scheduled arrival time is the time that the doors are scheduled to open at the arrival airport.

They are not the take off or landing times as the schedules take into account taxiing times at both airports (which for example at Istanbul and Madrid can be very lengthy), and have allowances built in for potential delays.

Therefore looking at FR24 you are comparing apples with oranges as the the schedule and actual times quoted are completely two different timings. There is no scheduled take-off or landing time in the public schedules.

A fairer opening statement would have been that your flight took off 1 hour after the scheduled departure time off stand. That does indicate a delay, but not an hour.

The schedule would allow for taxiing time within that period, and you would have eaten into the delay allowance built into the schedule, but it’s important to note that the flight didn’t take off exactly 1 hour behind schedule as you suggest.

Scheduled sector times have gotten longer over the years to allow for delays on the ground for whatever reason - a comparison of airline timetables from years ago and today will tell you that.

I might sound like I’m nitpicking, but the two sets of times are completely different.

LXFlyer

Just to add to my post above the two key questions are:

How late were the doors closed on the departure stand?

and

How late were they opened on the arrival stand?

Any other times, while informative, are not comparable.

tricky D

Just after 1pm and just after 9pm, add 8 hours = 16.

/had an eye on it most of the way

kevinandrew

It's often amusing to read airline social media complaints about 15-20 minute delays to departure only for the flight to end up arriving well ahead of schedule at the other side. Aer Lingus' media team often wait until arrival to respond, usually with something like, "we see you've actually arrived ahead of schedule, we hope you enjoyed your flight" which is then met with silence from the passenger, sorry, guest! 

Although it has to be said, the congestion at Dublin is now well on the way to eating into the entirety of that buffer time airlines give themselves. Not sure the airlines, particularly Aer Lingus, can afford to wait but not sure what they expect to be done.

billy few mates

Locker10a wrote: »

Passengers can and do get off US flights after boarding in Dublin, it’s happened for sick pax and disruptive pax in the past.
There’s absolutely nothing to suggest people were being held captive during that delay, the most reasonable and logical reason people didn’t get off is because they needed to get home/to their destination, and couldn’t afford to just forfeit their ticket just because of the inconvenience

I was on a US flight that was cancelled after a long delay a few months ago, I asked the boarding agent what this would mean seeing as we had technically temporarily been admitted to the USA out of curiosity really.
She told me that as it was quite late all the CBP staff had gone home so someone had done some sort of a mass signout for all of us. She then led us all up to the baggage hall where we collected our bags and left.
We turned up the next day and the CBP agent sympathised with us saying 'oh you were on the cancelled flight yesterday" and stamped the passports and sent us on our way.
I had thought there might be a problem if someone had an entry stamp without an accompanying exit stamp but it wasn't a problem.

LXFlyer

tricky D wrote: »

Just after 1pm and just after 9pm, add 8 hours = 16.

/had an eye on it most of the way

I was asking Locker10a about their flight! :-)

Locker10a

LXFlyer wrote: »

I think it is important to point out that scheduled departure times are the times that the doors are scheduled to close on the departure stand, and the scheduled arrival time is the time that the doors are scheduled to open at the arrival airport.

They are not the take off or landing times as the schedules take into account taxiing times at both airports (which for example at Istanbul and Madrid can be very lengthy), and have allowances built in for potential delays.

Therefore looking at FR24 you are comparing apples with oranges as the the schedule and actual times quoted are completely two different timings. There is no scheduled take-off or landing time in the public schedules.

A fairer opening statement would have been that your flight took off 1 hour after the scheduled departure time off stand. That does indicate a delay, but not an hour.

The schedule would allow for taxiing time within that period, and you would have eaten into the delay allowance built into the schedule, but it’s important to note that the flight didn’t take off exactly 1 hour behind schedule as you suggest.

Scheduled sector times have gotten longer over the years to allow for delays on the ground for whatever reason - a comparison of airline timetables from years ago and today will tell you that.

I might sound like I’m nitpicking, but the two sets of times are completely different.

Yeah I’d be well clued into that, isn’t it technically off blocks time that’s the scheduled departure time? One airline I worked for required a note in the flights paperwork if the doors weren’t closed at -3 min, as this was required to achieve an “on time” departure as scheduled.
Today we took off 1 hour after the scheduled departure, arrived on stand about 40 mins late, numerous passengers onboard with tight/missed connections.

alentejo

Question. Apart from the extra taxi times to runway 10 (5 mins), why are there perceived delays departing in Dublin 10?

goingnowhere

10 has less capacity than 28 due the runway exit layout, so if 10 is in use you get delays

Stephen Strange

billy few mates wrote: »

I was on a US flight that was cancelled after a long delay a few months ago, I asked the boarding agent what this would mean seeing as we had technically temporarily been admitted to the USA out of curiosity really.
She told me that as it was quite late all the CBP staff had gone home so someone had done some sort of a mass signout for all of us. She then led us all up to the baggage hall where we collected our bags and left.
We turned up the next day and the CBP agent sympathised with us saying 'oh you were on the cancelled flight yesterday" and stamped the passports and sent us on our way.
I had thought there might be a problem if someone had an entry stamp without an accompanying exit stamp but it wasn't a problem.

No exit stamps for the US anyway, it's all done digitally these days.

goingnowhere

goingnowhere wrote: »

10 has less capacity than 28 due the runway exit layout, so if 10 is in use you get delays

Eh what ?!

10 has the same capacity see daa/CAR and Helios reports.

It’s the longer taxi only.

I’ll do the work for you.

“
Runway and airspace capacity
The analysis shows that the maximum achievable runway throughput on Runway 10-28 is 24 arrivals in arrivals mode, 41 departures in departures mode and 48 flights in mixed mode (assuming S18 design day fleet mix).”

https://www.aviationreg.ie/_fileupload/Helios capacity assessment workstream 2/P2410D008_Final_Report_v1_5_1 (clean).pdf

Page 4

billy few mates

Stephen Strange wrote: »

No exit stamps for the US anyway, it's all done digitally these days.

Yes it was about three years since I was in the states, on the way back a TSA guy in airport security checked the passport and told me that was all that was required and I was good to go.
I was also surprised that I didn't have to fill in the that little paper declaration form we used to have to complete before you got to the desk. It was quite straightforward really but a bit of a pain having to do security twice in five minutes, there must be something they could do about this, we had security fast track passes for the DAA but everyone has to queue for CBP security.

Locker10a

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Eh what ?!

10 has the same capacity see daa/CAR and Helios reports.

It’s the longer taxi only.

I’ll do the work for you.

“
Runway and airspace capacity
The analysis shows that the maximum achievable runway throughput on Runway 10-28 is 24 arrivals in arrivals mode, 41 departures in departures mode and 48 flights in mixed mode (assuming S18 design day fleet mix).”

https://www.aviationreg.ie/_fileupload/Helios%20capacity%20assessment%20workstream%202/P2410D008_Final_Report_v1_5_1%20(clean).pdf

Page 4

I don’t buy it, sorry, it’s most definitely not as efficient as the standard 28

Kcormahs

Will Aer Lingus announce any routes mid september as per the last two years?

sherology

EI-LRC looks ready to roll...

https://aibfamily.flights/A320/8965#

sherology

Kcormahs wrote: »

Will Aer Lingus announce any routes mid september as per the last two years?

Strange Montréal hasn't been re-announced now that the LRs are starting to come on-stream (and there's a bit more clarity - I assume). Earlier they launch, earlier you can get bookings... Any chance the bookings were poor last year prior to cancelling route?

Jack1985

I'd be surprised if it didn't re-appear, Aer Lingus offer fantastic connections to 10 French cities which would offer a lot of potential for a Montreal service.

kevinandrew

sherology wrote: »

EI-LRC looks ready to roll...

https://aibfamily.flights/A320/8965#

Surprised to see how far ahead this one is, was expecting EI-LRB to make an appearance first. Maybe both will be delivered around the same time?

HTCOne

sherology wrote: »

Strange Montréal hasn't been re-announced now that the LRs are starting to come on-stream (and there's a bit more clarity - I assume). Earlier they launch, earlier you can get bookings... Any chance the bookings were poor last year prior to cancelling route?

I remember reading that forward bookings were actually very strong on YUL.

TATL total traffic/movements have started to shrink year-on-year over the last few months for the first time in over 10 years. The demise of WOW and the MAX are factors in this, but there's signs of an impending recession in the US and in Europe. Maybe EI are getting nervous. Who knows.

ohigg84

kevinandrew wrote: »

Surprised to see how far ahead this one is, was expecting EI-LRB to make an appearance first. Maybe both will be delivered around the same time?

I was too..
When will LRB be ready?


Sad to see the 757s go.

sully2010

I'd be surprised too, flew YUL-DUB last year on an Air Canada max, it was full. Flew this year on A330-300 and it was full. Air Transat have dropped the route so AC have no competition. Think EI plan on a seasonal service because of the harsh winter's but with those connections to France it's possible all year round.

HTCOne wrote: »

I remember reading that forward bookings were actually very strong on YUL.

TATL total traffic/movements have started to shrink year-on-year over the last few months for the first time in over 10 years. The demise of WOW and the MAX are factors in this, but there's signs of an impending recession in the US and in Europe. Maybe EI are getting nervous. Who knows.

Tenger

In regard to US security; Fast pass works for the airport security. The US security is under the auspices of the US TSA. You can apply for their Global Entry program which allows faster processing.

Kcormahs wrote: »

Will Aer Lingus announce any routes mid september as per the last two years?

I would expect an announcement within the next month.
I doubt we will see a significant new route, other than a reinstatement of the Montreal route.

Looking at their planned aircraft deliveries; the LRs will replace B757s. (2 in Shannon, 2 in Dublin) 2 new A330s from Toulouse will allow winter maintenance and add frequency to Seattle, San Francisco and perhaps Florida next summer.

The additional 4 A321LRs (anyone got a potential delivery time?) may allow a new East Coast route or perhaps a double daily A321LR will free up an A330 to head further West?

Jack1985

Positively Orlando grows from 4 to 6 weekly next summer, with MIA returning to 3 weekly. It’s an extra 3 weekly flights overall to Florida, a long time coming for MCO that route is a goldmine for EI.

blackwhite

Tenger wrote: »

In regard to US security; Fast pass works for the airport security. The US security is under the auspices of the US TSA. You can apply for their Global Entry program which allows faster processing.




I would expect an announcement within the next month.
I doubt we will see a significant new route, other than a reinstatement of the Montreal route.

Looking at their planned aircraft deliveries; the LRs will replace B757s. (2 in Shannon, 2 in Dublin) 2 new A330s from Toulouse will allow winter maintenance and add frequency to Seattle, San Francisco and perhaps Florida next summer.

The additional 4 A321LRs (anyone got a potential delivery time?) may allow a new East Coast route or perhaps a double daily A321LR will free up an A330 to head further West?

I didn’t think Ireland was on the list for the Global Entry programme? Need to have UK (or one of the other eligible countries) citizenship

HTCOne

SEA daily, MCO 6 x weekly, SFO 10 x weekly and MIA back to 3 x weekly are what I've heard from EI crew, so that's an extra 8 A330 daily movements if true, which would imply no 330 leaving of course, and would leave 6 330 weekly movements unaccounted for if no 330 leaves, not accounting for 4 extra LRs

Jack1985

HTCOne wrote: »

SEA daily, MCO 6 x weekly, SFO 10 x weekly and MIA back to 3 x weekly are what I've heard from EI crew, so that's an extra 8 A330 daily movements if true, which would imply no 330 leaving of course, and would leave 6 330 weekly movements unaccounted for if no 330 leaves, not accounting for 4 extra LRs

MSP will also operate with 5 weekly A332 services.