Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

sandbelter

Captain_Crash wrote: »

So word on the street is LRB is covered in dents and EI are not happy with it! Can anyone confirm?

Source who told me said he was told by an engineer who’s been with it, but admittedly it’s second hand information!

You bet your bottom dollar that Airbus wouldn't deliver anything with dents to Qatar Airways.

kevinandrew

Captain_Crash wrote: »

kevinandrew wrote: »

Where are these supposed dents located, fuselage, engine or cabin? 

Would have thought anything major would have picked up during the delivery process, must be some sort of inspection before hand over.

That was my thought! I asked and the answer I got was supposedly it looks like it was sat in a hail storm! I know nothing more and just posting here what I was told (source is fairly reliable, but again full disclosure, he hasn’t seen it and was only told about it)

That’s believable to be honest, the aircraft on the production line at the Hamburg plant can spend a number of weeks outside in parking areas between hanger time. I believe this time outside has been longer than normal this year as Airbus get to grips with complexities on the NEO line.

Germany also gets its fair share of intense thunderstorms during the late summer. Many of them bring large hail, straight line winds and even the odd tornado. It’s often more reminiscent of the US Midwest than Western Europe!

Not saying this is proof of anything but it wouldn’t surprise me as much.

flange888

Captain_Crash wrote:

So word on the street is LRB is covered in dents and EI are not happy with it! Can anyone confirm?

Not accurate

Captain_Crash

flange888 wrote: »

Not accurate

Sound! Good news

Do you know if there is any issues or was it just an unfounded rumor?

Karl8415

Considering that EI have new 330's due soon would there ever be a market for them to introduce premium economy seating to generate extra revenue or will they alway have business and economy only

Nijmegen

Karl8415 wrote: »

Considering that EI have new 330's due soon would there ever be a market for them to introduce premium economy seating to generate extra revenue or will they alway have business and economy only

Premium economy would be a good fit, it's where a lot of the market is heading towards to drive margin. A lot of biz travellers don't have the policies to support business class travel but their companies will do premium economy and a lot of wealthier / older travellers will go premium economy. There's some interesting graphs here on the YoY growth rate of the seats, and it has really taken off in recent years. Allows you to continue to strip back and offer the barebones down the back to win the Skyscanner battles and then drive more premium margin in the middle vs relying for it all right up the front.

California Dreamer

On the old business configuration on the 300's there was a small 'mini cabin' between business and economy that was talked about to change to PE. Nothing ever came of it though.

flange888

Captain_Crash wrote:

Do you know if there is any issues or was it just an unfounded rumor?

No issues... there's always a snag list during delivery of an aircraft, sometimes they are quite extensive and sometimes much shorter, its common for an airline to have question mark's over certain items

Karl8415

T

Nijmegen wrote: »

Premium economy would be a good fit, it's where a lot of the market is heading towards to drive margin. A lot of biz travellers don't have the policies to support business class travel but their companies will do premium economy and a lot of wealthier / older travellers will go premium economy. There's some interesting graphs here on the YoY growth rate of the seats, and it has really taken off in recent years. Allows you to continue to strip back and offer the barebones down the back to win the Skyscanner battles and then drive more premium margin in the middle vs relying for it all right up the front.

Thank you for your reply and I appreciate it,I asked my question because I’m watching a lot of new aircraft deliveries with different airlines with different manufacturers and the vast amount of them seem to be going down this road of premium economy, now I know that EI 330-300’s has either 283 or 287 in economy pending on MTOW variant but I just wonder if they were to experiment with converting a few economy rows into premium with a new cabin that they would increase the gross revenue that the aircraft would generate, it might not happen with the 2 pending 300’s that are due but I wonder would they consider it as the current 200’s get replaced with 300 series

alancostello

Karl8415 wrote: »

T
Thank you for your reply and I appreciate it,I asked my question because I’m watching a lot of new aircraft deliveries with different airlines with different manufacturers and the vast amount of them seem to be going down this road of premium economy, now I know that EI 330-300’s has either 283 or 287 in economy pending on MTOW variant but I just wonder if they were to experiment with converting a few economy rows into premium with a new cabin that they would increase the gross revenue that the aircraft would generate, it might not happen with the 2 pending 300’s that are due but I wonder would they consider it as the current 200’s get replaced with 300 series

If EI get added to the transatlantic joint venture they’ll roll it out as they'll want consistent product offerings across participating brands. They’ll remove the first 4-6 rows of economy and replace it with 3-4 rows of PE in a 2-3-2 similar to what American has on its A330s.

sherology

alancostello wrote: »

If EI get added to the transatlantic joint venture they’ll roll it out as they'll want consistent product offerings across participating brands. They’ll remove the first 4-6 rows of economy and replace it with 3-4 rows of PE in a 2-3-2 similar to what American has on its A330s.

Were it me, I'd add the same PE seat (if they do retrofit the class) to the a321/320 fleet, on a 3-2 configuration, ~5 rows, and sell that as AerSpace/Priority (route dependent) - not a huge reduction in seat count - and give the folks connecting and those who pay for all the bells and whistles on short haul a little differentiation. A lot of folks buy all those bells and whistles, and would likely pay that bit more for some extra comfort and the felling of separation.

Not me... I'm a total cheap skate, but I do notice the priority line on flights.

I'd like EI to become more boutique, and lead a bit more. Seems the right size for this type of product. Full biz on certain early morning trunk routes - as planned, and PE available on the others... So people are never totally disappointed by what they get for their higher fares.

alancostello

sherology wrote: »

Were it me, I'd add the same PE seat (if they do retrofit the class) to the a321/320 fleet, on a 3-2 configuration, ~5 rows, and sell that as AerSpace/Priority (route dependent) - not a huge reduction in seat count - and give the folks connecting and those who pay for all the bells and whistles on short haul a little differentiation. A lot of folks buy all those bells and whistles, and would likely pay that bit more for some extra comfort and the felling of separation.

Not me... I'm a total cheap skate, but I do notice the priority line on flights.

I'd like EI to become more boutique, and lead a bit more. Seems the right size for this type of product. Full biz on certain early morning trunk routes - as planned, and PE available on the others... So people are never totally disappointed by what they get for their higher fares.

While a nice idea, it'll never happen for a variety or reasons, not least among them that PE seats wouldn't fit in a 3-2 config. American use an identical seat for PE and Domestic First, 2-3-2 or 2-4-2 on wide bodies (A330/787 and 777, respectively), and 2-2 on all narrowbody aircraft.

All AerSpace ever will be is a blocked middle seat same as literally every other premium Euro airline does. The only development that'll happen is a divider and changeable cabin size.

Kcormahs

alancostello wrote: »

While a nice idea, it'll never happen for a variety or reasons, not least among them that PE seats wouldn't fit in a 3-2 config. American use an identical seat for PE and Domestic First, 2-3-2 or 2-4-2 on wide bodies (A330/787 and 777, respectively), and 2-2 on all narrowbody aircraft.

All AerSpace ever will be is a blocked middle seat same as literally every other premium Euro airline does. The only development that'll happen is a divider and changeable cabin size.

I didnt hear about divider/curtain or meal improvement. You just presuming this or have you heard anything?

alancostello

Kcormahs wrote: »

I didnt hear about divider/curtain or meal improvement. You just presuming this or have you heard anything?

Never mentioned anything about meal improvement? A divider/changeable cabin size is inevitable, likely just something that sticks on top of seats, it'll have to be in order to compete. They're trialling it with Row 1 for now but of course they'll need more, especially on likes of the LHR/CDG/AMS flights.

Kcormahs

alancostello wrote: »

Never mentioned anything about meal improvement? A divider/changeable cabin size is inevitable, likely just something that sticks on top of seats, it'll have to be in order to compete. They're trialling it with Row 1 for now but of course they'll need more, especially on likes of the LHR/CDG/AMS flights.

There are already seat headrests to divide aer space from economy.
Comparing to every single competitor on short haul with a premium cabin, the product is low as its only the same food as in the economy menu. Not a real meal life BA/LH/AF/KL etc

sdanseo

New A333s can't be far away now surely? Anyone know ETAs?

This pic was 2 months ago: https://aibfamily.flights/customer/Aer-Lingus/A330

EI-EIM and EI-EIN. Will the next be EI-EIO or are they going to (logically) skip it?

Irish Steve

EI-EIO is unlikely to be allocated to an A330, as it was used a long time ago on a Seneca (light twin), and unless the policy about reallocations has changed, that will mean it can't be reused.

HTCOne

EI-EIN? That's quite a coincidence, both designators in the reg.

L1011

Irish Steve wrote: »

EI-EIO is unlikely to be allocated to an A330, as it was used a long time ago on a Seneca (light twin), and unless the policy about reallocations has changed, that will mean it can't be reused.

The ability to bend the rules when required (EI-ABI...) is presumably still there?

kevinandrew

Next A330 is due sometime in November isn't it? 

No sign of new transatlantic routes, not ever a whisper. Could the increased risk of a no deal Brexit and its impact on our own economy be playing a part?

Van.Bosch

kevinandrew wrote: »

Next A330 is due sometime in November isn't it? 

No sign of new transatlantic routes, not ever a whisper. Could the increased risk of a no deal Brexit and its impact on our own economy be playing a part?

Not only no new routes, rumoured that YUL won’t start next summer, so minus routes!

liiga

A321neo off to London Heathrow TOMMORROW morning at 8:30pm

sdanseo

Not the worst price if you wanted to try out Business (I'm assuming Aerspace on an A321LR will equate to a Business seat?)
The regular fare is around €75 and with 10hrs notice €114 is the standard fare for the same journey
Its a no brainer at that difference.

VG31

I'm planning on trying it out myself soon. €150 isn't too bad considering it's a proper business class seat.

Van.Bosch

VG31 wrote: »

I'm planning on trying it out myself soon. €150 isn't too bad considering it's a proper business class seat.

Until they switch it for “operational” reasons

cson

alancostello wrote: »

While a nice idea, it'll never happen for a variety or reasons, not least among them that PE seats wouldn't fit in a 3-2 config. American use an identical seat for PE and Domestic First, 2-3-2 or 2-4-2 on wide bodies (A330/787 and 777, respectively), and 2-2 on all narrowbody aircraft.

All AerSpace ever will be is a blocked middle seat same as literally every other premium Euro airline does. The only development that'll happen is a divider and changeable cabin size.

AA definitely have different seats in first vs PE across the fleet, maybe they're in the process of standardizing the short haul fleet to 787/A330 PE seats (which indeed are identical) but the usual short haul first seat is superior to PE in terms of size & comfort.

EI321

The short crosswind runway 16/34 is being used in Dublin today and its soaking wet.

I wonder how EI will get on with the A321neoLR off it.

Captain_Crash

EI321 wrote: »

The short crosswind runway 16/34 is being used in Dublin today and its soaking wet.

I wonder how EI will get on with the A321neoLR off it.

Its a 27kt wind from the north with a xwind component of about 14kt so it wont have an issue. The issues with a wet runway were when a tailwind was present on 10/28.

goingnowhere

The LR issue is not a issue with 10/28 under normal conditions

You take off into the wind, however the setup in Dublin allows a tailwind, basically they don't want to change runways if they can avoid it so allow a small tailwind.

So you are 5-10 knots down instead of 5-10 knots up so it really hurts the LR as 10/28 is just long enough, add some rain in and you are in trouble as the stopping distance at reject goes up. This is where the 757 had an advantage, its got bogie landing gear, more rubber, more grip, more stopping power.

For EU ops there is no issue at all as the fuel load will be tiny compared to a TATL run.

alancostello

cson wrote: »

AA definitely have different seats in first vs PE across the fleet, maybe they're in the process of standardizing the short haul fleet to 787/A330 PE seats (which indeed are identical) but the usual short haul first seat is superior to PE in terms of size & comfort.

Out of the 23 narrow body mainline AA flights I've had in the last 18 months, only 3 didn't have the new seats, make of that what you will. This is all somewhat irrelevant to the topic at hand, if EI are to install Premium Economy it will be with a current and modern PE product, akin to what AA have now and going forward, which is the point I was making.

Doylers

Just looking at DUB - YYZ for 2nd of Jan, since when is a 757 used on this route? Haven't been on one before.

L1011

Doylers wrote: »

Just looking at DUB - YYZ for 2nd of Jan, since when is a 757 used on this route? Haven't been on one before.

The route was introduced with the 757. Believe it has some 330 rotations but the basic answer is "forever"

Doylers

L1011 wrote: »

The route was introduced with the 757. Believe it has some 330 rotations but the basic answer is "forever"

Never been on one in all my time flying back and forth. What are they like vs the 330 offering

cson

Doylers wrote: »

Never been on one in all my time flying back and forth. What are they like vs the 330 offering

Old and falling apart down the back, standard EI business product up front ('throne' seats are nice if you can snag one).

Locker10a

cson wrote: »

Old and falling apart down the back, standard EI business product up front ('throne' seats are nice if you can snag one).

Well no serious business are going to invest in a hard product that will be retired within a year. While I’ve not been on the 757s for a couple of years now, and they may feel worn out, commercially i understand why they may not give the TLC (€€€) you night expect as they’ll soon be gone, same reason I’ll not replace the rather poor battery on my iPhone, it’s on contract and will be replaced in a few months, why spend money on something you won’t get the benefit out of !

alancostello

Locker10a wrote: »

Well no serious business are going to invest in a hard product that will be retired within a year. While I’ve not been on the 757s for a couple of years now, and they may feel worn out, commercially i understand why they may not give the TLC (€€€) you night expect as they’ll soon be gone, same reason I’ll not replace the rather poor battery on my iPhone, it’s on contract and will be replaced in a few months, why spend money on something you won’t get the benefit out of !

They’re not actually that bad, I’ve been on them 4 times. The overhead bins aren’t as big as on the A320s, they don’t have WiFi, and the interior panels have a bit of yellowing, but the IFE is the same as the A330s, the seats in economy are plenty comfortable, they’re fine.

I personally prefer the smaller cabin, I find it to be generally quieter in terms of cabin noise, I’m looking forward to trying the A321LR for the same reasons.

adam88

https://onemileatatime.com/aer-lingus-las-vegas-flights/

Sorry. I just had to

adam88

adam88 wrote: »

https://onemileatatime.com/aer-lingus-las-vegas-flights/

Sorry. I just had to

Article date February 2017

cson

Locker10a wrote: »

Well no serious business are going to invest in a hard product that will be retired within a year. While I’ve not been on the 757s for a couple of years now, and they may feel worn out, commercially i understand why they may not give the TLC (€€€) you night expect as they’ll soon be gone, same reason I’ll not replace the rather poor battery on my iPhone, it’s on contract and will be replaced in a few months, why spend money on something you won’t get the benefit out of !

I didn't say they should, merely stated the pretty well accepted fact that Y class in 757s is not in good shape across the fleet.

Stephen Strange

Travelled in AerSpace on the 154 to LHR this morning. Had seat 5A.

Very impressed, wish they had the NEOs operating every LHR rotation.

Jack1985

Stephen Strange wrote: »

Travelled in AerSpace on the 154 to LHR this morning. Had seat 5A.

Very impressed, wish they had the NEOs operating every LHR rotation.

Good to hear, the NEO product operating on LHR's is a welcome thing and definitely best product between IRL and LON (if not the best cabin on offer intra-EU).

Stephen Strange

Jack1985 wrote: »

Good to hear, the NEO product operating on LHR's is a welcome thing and definitely best product between IRL and LON (if not the best cabin on offer intra-EU).

Yeah it was good. Even had IFE with some of the usual tv offerings and some Irish movies. Between taxi and flight time, was over 2 hours, so most welcome.

sherology

Stephen Strange wrote: »

Yeah it was good. Even had IFE with some of the usual tv offerings and some Irish movies. Between taxi and flight time, was over 2 hours, so most welcome.

How was the included food/drink offering handled/explained? Any limits applied or just... "What would you like"? How many seats filled?

Jack1985

sherology wrote: »

How was the included food/drink offering handled/explained? Any limits applied or just... "What would you like"? How many seats filled?

Your entitled to a complimentary beverage hot or cold as well as any food item from the BIA menu. It's revenue product at the end of the day and as such has to be accounted for.

Today's EI155 returned with 11 in AerSpace classed as J out of 16 seats available versus the 4 available per A320. Announcement due soon regarding extension of AerSpace seats on A320's on set routes.

goingnowhere

155 is a special case as it is the prime connecting flight into the afternoon wave of TATL departures. So few if any paid for AerSpace, they got it by virtue of holding a J ticket.

There is also the capacity issue as its 8 fewer Y seats on the 321Neo vs 320 so on full flights the need to upgrade may occur until EI gets its seat maps and timetable in sync.

Aerspace on the NEO is worth the money, it is not on a A320

sherology

Jack1985 wrote: »

Your entitled to a complimentary beverage hot or cold as well as any food item from the BIA menu. It's revenue product at the end of the day and as such has to be accounted for.

Today's EI155 returned with 11 in AerSpace classed as J out of 16 seats available versus the 4 available per A320. Announcement due soon regarding extension of AerSpace seats on A320's on set routes.

Thanks for that. Was curious as to how they do the 'accounting/tracking' of 'free' items, and how gouging 'raid the larder' issues/requestswould be dealt with (without crew having to get 'firm' about limits and/or passengers getting snarky about 'entitlements').

Good #'s and a boone for the transfer folk's.

sherology

goingnowhere wrote: »

155 is a special case as it is the prime connecting flight into the afternoon wave of TATL departures. So few if any paid for AerSpace, they got it by virtue of holding a J ticket.

There is also the capacity issue as its 8 fewer Y seats on the 321Neo vs 320 so on full flights the need to upgrade may occur until EI gets its seat maps and timetable in sync.

Aerspace on the NEO is worth the money, it is not on a A320

Got it 😉

Priced well, AerSpace, as a more flexible/expandable cabin on the a320 (as you're suggesting is soon to be announced) would wrap up all those priority type upgrades, with some additional benefits, and I think it will be successful for those who already pay extra for upfront seats, and like a bit of extra comfort and the many who are willing to pay a bit more.

cson

Jack1985 wrote: »

Announcement due soon regarding extension of AerSpace seats on A320's on set routes.

Assume they'll just copy BA with the moveable curtain and move as demand dictates.

goingnowhere wrote: »

Aerspace on the NEO is worth the money, it is not on a A320

I mean obviously - you're comparing a genuine long haul business class lie flat hard product to a short haul economy seat :pac:

goingnowhere

You get wifi too...

Jack1985

Just to point out the A321LR holds Y168 - so there's a difference of 6 seats in eco versus the 320.